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People who hate "Enterprise"

SystemSystem Member, NoReporting Posts: 178,019 Arc User
edited February 2012 in Ten Forward
I have a serious question to people who consider themselves Star Trek fans and dislike (or even hate) Enterprise. Why? I find this baffling. I just completed my 5th time through the series in the past 2-3 years (I watch TV while I'm working) and I think it's a great series. A few of the characters are a little dry but nothing crazy. I would really like to know why some people don't find it entertaining of say it's "NOT Star Trek".
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  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited January 2012
    I only really disliked a couple things about it:
    1. The first season when it was just called "Enterprise", only later being renamed "Star Trek: Enterprise". This is a great franchise and I hate to see a network censor a title because it's ashamed of its fanbase.
    2. I didn't like the long storyline going. I've always though of Trek as having independent episodes. Whenever they said "Last time on Enterprise..." it felt wrong.
    3. They stopped making the show right as it finally got back to the episodic nature that I missed! >_<
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited January 2012
    I find that different 'generations' of Trek are vastly dissimilar from each other. It's quite understandable that everyone has their own preferences on what is 'proper' Star Trek.

    For me I try not to hate anything but try and see how times and people have changed over the years due to real world developments. Life is short enough that I shouldn't have to bother making protests over what goes into shows that I have absolutely no influence in.

    Those who are financing and directing the films can more or less come up with whatever excuse to make whatever they wish to, to draw in maximum profit from existing and new Trek fans. Very Ferengi.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited January 2012
    hey im not afarid to say i liked it..

    the temp cold war was dragged out alot and did put me off for awhile

    but i recently given all 4 season on dvd and am loving going back and watching it

    season 4 was my fav.. the 2-3 epiosd earcs i really loved

    overall Enterprise was good, but i will always call ds9 my home, except when im off on voyager

    archer,trip and t'pol got most of the episodes, it would have been nice to see a few more focus on others

    but Doc phlox is the man! also travis was way under utilized


    also there was a distinct lack of red shirts.. i.e one episode wonder guys that get killed
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited January 2012
    hort_wort wrote: »
    I only really disliked a couple things about it:
    1. The first season when it was just called "Enterprise", only later being renamed "Star Trek: Enterprise". This is a great franchise and I hate to see a network censor a title because it's ashamed of its fanbase.
    2. I didn't like the long storyline going. I've always though of Trek as having independent episodes. Whenever they said "Last time on Enterprise..." it felt wrong.
    3. They stopped making the show right as it finally got back to the episodic nature that I missed! >_<

    Ah, see it's funny, although I absolutely love TNG, DS9 and VOY, I enjoyed the long story arcs (Season 3 Xindi arc was my fave) and felt that it was something missing from earlier series. TNG and DS9 I believe were made for first run syndication so it made sense for all the episodes to be watchable independent of each other.

    I'm pretty bummed this only ran 4 seasons. Could have easily had another 3.

    And why isn't it out on bluray yet?! lol
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited January 2012
    unknownps wrote: »
    hey im not afarid to say i liked it..

    but i recently given all 4 season on dvd and am loving going back and watching it

    season 4 was my fav.. the 2-3 epiosd earcs i really loved

    You should watch them on netflix if you have it. They stream in HD, better quality than the DVD.

    Also I did enjoy the 2-3 episode arcs although it somehow made the season seem significantly shorter since the multiple parts all ran together.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited January 2012
    Only thing I didn't like:

    A.) It was on the now dead for good reasons UPN
    B.) Some arcs were too long
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited January 2012
    In the beginning i was a true ENT hater.

    here are the reasons:

    Prequel: they made a prequel for the sake of making a prequel. Because that was just the latest TREND in Hollywood, everybody did Prequels, so Trek had to do the same thing.

    Fine with me so far. After Star Wars EP1 i wasn't the biggest fan of prequels any longer but i gave them a chance.


    Season 1 - 2 ... i hated because there was NOTHING, that justified this series being a prequel.
    The Temporal Cold war would have worked just as well in a TNG setting,
    a FERENGI episode?
    a BORG episode?
    was that really needed?
    I did not like T'Pol and the Vulcans behavior in general, too hostile, too arrogant.
    In the end that actually played out in a rather good Episode, but i can understand that this felt wrong for a long time for a lot of People.

    In the end, the big question was, WHY make this a PRE-KIRK show, there was little to nothing that justified this in the first 2 Seasons.



    Season 3:

    This Season was pure TORTURE while it aired on TV.
    i LIKE *to be continued shows*, LOST, 24, Prison Break, even BSG showed how to do this more or less right.

    So Season 3, One or Two episodes as INTRO for the tone of the Season. OK.
    Then 20 or so episodes of FILLER with tiny bits of *xindi plot* in it.
    It made me go NUTS. I finally wanted to see what they have, every week i was waiting for the next Episode only for it to be another FILLER.
    In the last... what 5 episodes? the Xindi plot was finished as fast as possible... good episodes finally... but too little too late.


    In retrospect, this is EXACTLY what they did in DS9 with the Dominion War.
    Only that DS9 was years ago, for DS9 this kind of storytelling was something NEW and AWESOME.
    There was nothing on TV to compare it too (Babylon 5 at best ;P ).

    But ENT S3 felt wrong, it felt OLD... and it felt like TORTURE watching it.


    On DVD, it's fine, i can watch the episodes back to back, i don't have to wait MONTHS to see the conclusion, also i KNOW how it ends, so i can actually enjoy those *filler episodes* for what they are.


    ****

    Season 4 made EVERYTHING right imho.

    The 45 minute episodes are something that just doesn't work any longer for me.
    Not after 24 and LOST and all the others...

    But... it is painful to stretch one story over a whole Season too, and i HATE "too be continued" in the middle of it.

    Season 4 did it right with the 3 Episode Storyarcs.
    The BEST Star Trek episodes ever, all were 2 parters!
    You have more time for deeper story, you have a reason to turn in next week and you still get Start - Plot - Finale in a reasonable Time frame.

    ENT Season 4 had more EPIC episodes than ANY other Trek Series out there had in one Season.

    ....and of course then they have to cancel it.



    So what was the failure of ENT?

    - people did not buy that i was a prequel to TOS, the ship looked too modern, the bridge looked to new etc.
    (the casual TV audience did not like, or not even understand it!)
    - for the hardcore fans it was a prequel without enough story reason to be a prequel
    - the *concept* was not made for a Series but for a Pilot movie and after that Pilot we were suddenly watching default TNG³ or VOY² episodes again. (including recycled stories!)
    - it took 3 Seasons for ENT to get it's rhythm, which you can also say for TNG, DS9 and VOY, but times have changed, either your new series rocks right from the go or it gets canceled after 13 eps. ...just ask FOX.
    They massmurder good new Series like no one else.



    ...
    and then on top of it there are those people who don't like the Ship itself (Akira on it's head) or Captain Archer and stuff like that.



    In my eyes they should have gone FORWARD after Voyager + Nemesis. Not backwards. And we might still have new Trek on TV... and no frakking REBOOT!



    ...and thats kinda why i am playing STO, 2409 the future... that's what i wanted to see for years now.
    THIS is what Star Trek should have done in the first place.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited January 2012
    What I didn't like:
    1. Temporal Cold War. STOP THE TIME TRAVEL BS!!!
    2. The writing.
    3. The characterizations.
    4. The environment.

    Sadly, it only got good after Berman was removed from it. Too bad it was too late. I would have loved for them to get into the Romulan/Earth War... which is what I thought the series was going to be about to begin with! "Hey, we are in danger of cancellation. Let;s create this new race called the Xindi to be a threat to Earth. And, ooh, it'll involve time-traveling space TRIBBLE!!!"

    Or, just start the freaking Romulan/Earth War. At least that would be comethign we could care about!
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited January 2012
    My only problem with it was that....

    wait for it, wait for it


    There were no Cardassians:mad:
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited January 2012
    Until recently, I have never had an opportunity to watch the Enterprise series, but I managed to get a DVD box, and started watching it. I'm about midway through Season 1, and I have to be frank... I really like it.
    The characters are likable and even those that aren't specifically deep are at least not as flat as the Voyager crew. And don't get me wrong, I enjoyed Voyager as well, at least most of it.

    I do agree with the person who said that the Vulcans are too hostile and arrogant so far. But I enjoy the interaction a lot, since I know that the species that are currently hostile to each other are going to be in an alliance together eventually. What bothers me a bit is that they introduced a new species for Dr. Phlox (who is one of my favorite characters so far, by the way). Denobulans never had been mentioned before, and making Phlox a Tellarite would've worked just as fine.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited January 2012
    hort_wort wrote: »
    I only really disliked a couple things about it:
    1. The first season when it was just called "Enterprise", only later being renamed "Star Trek: Enterprise". This is a great franchise and I hate to see a network censor a title because it's ashamed of its fanbase.
    2. I didn't like the long storyline going. I've always though of Trek as having independent episodes. Whenever they said "Last time on Enterprise..." it felt wrong.
    3. They stopped making the show right as it finally got back to the episodic nature that I missed! >_<

    Actually one of the reasons I liked Enterprise was because of your second reason to dislike it. I love continuity in TV shows. It makes it feel like one long movie instead of disjointed episodes.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited January 2012
    ValoremVox wrote:
    Actually one of the reasons I liked Enterprise was because of your second reason to dislike it. I love continuity in TV shows. It makes it feel like one long movie instead of disjointed episodes.

    I second that. The reason why Battlestar Galactica was so engaging was that each new episode is a continuation on the last. Watch it enough and you will get suspicious of the people around you :D
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited January 2012
    Enterprise pooped on everything Star Trek from the get go.

    A) Prequels - Really? Why must everything have a prequel and a crappy one at best.

    B) Theme song was utter TRIBBLE - different yes, but utter TRIBBLE

    C) Uninspiring Captain - Scott Bakula was a horrible choice for a Captain (I thought I was watching Quantum Leap over and over and over again)

    D) TEMPORAL COLD WAR BS - WTF - I thought this was suppose to be the founding of the Federation, the encounters with the Klingons, Andorians, Tellarites, and most of all THE ROMULANS - so instead we get shallow story arcs regarding the races mentioned, while being smothered with Xindi TRIBBLE or sulaban whatever you call them, blah

    E) Very boring and stale writing - with more of the same

    F) Characters were awful

    G) Lore / TRIBBLE on everything Star Trek Lore - complicating it even more

    H) The Extremely loooooong arcs ( though this may have worked for BSG - but remember we're talking about another animal - plus the Cylons was the main theme of BSG <--Which I love)

    To be honest I hate Voyager just as much as I do Enterprise - so Enterprise is hated slightly more
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited January 2012
    I quite like enterprise so I don't hate it but I don't love it either. Its my least favourite trek I watch.

    I guess a few reasons are;

    The characters. I found them dull and uninteresting. Characters like Data, Picard, Sisko, O'brien, Garak, Quark, Paris, the Doctor were GOLD. Each one was fun to watch and had great personalities. I found the ones in enterprise to just be lacking. I'm not sure if its the writing, the actor or what but I did not really care that much about them. If I don't care about the main cast then its hard to enjoy the show.

    Humour - There is a lack of good humour in Ent. The show did not feel as fun as other series. I don't just mean goofy comedy eps either. Every ep felt darker and more serious but that not really Trek. Despite the problems the other crews faced there was usually one good laugh out loud moment in each episode.

    Set in the past - A minor quibble but I would have preferred one moving into the future. Again only a minor issue.

    Temporal cold war - Now going to the point above, I loved the idea but the execution was sloppy. Berman and Braga admitted they had no idea where the story was going. they just made it up on the spot. The season 3 cliffhanger with the TRIBBLE aliens. they did not even have the second ep thought out. they just thought TRIBBLE aliens was cool and then went to lunch. Manny Cotto had to fix that mess. Personally i like sitting down and trying to work out where the story is going but after a while i realised that's impossible as they don't even know. crucial plot points become meaningless as they are only there for the one episode rather than some greater story.

    Season 1. Largley forgettable in my opinion. Just not very interesting and thats about 25% of the show.

    Getting cancelled. Somewhat of an after the fact thing here but how good would DS9 or TNG have been if they had no season 5, 6 or 7. Some of their best eps happen there and if ENT had continued to get better as it was doing then I think you could look back at the show with more love. It got cut down in its prime. I would have thought they would show Star Trek a little more respect than just cancel it after all those years.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited January 2012
    my problem with it was this

    the temporal cold war was created to connect it to later trek series, because the network executives themselves didn't believe the series could stand on its own. so they had to invent an overall story arc.

    secondly, no romulan war, it was at this time there was the romulan war between earth and romulus.

    also the technology didnt reflect the time. there were no photon torpedo, only "primitive" nuclear weapons. Subspace communication was limited to radio, ie No Audio Visual communication.

    Now on the last point i understand they have to use some creative license to make the show appeal to people. IE it wouldnt be exciting to not SEE people on the view screen, so i give you that.

    but they should have had the romulan war, they should of done more "inventing" of what we know as trek, like they did in the first season, the idea for the prime directive, the idea for red alert automation, i would of liked to see the transporter not put into the show at first, and introduced a few episodes in.

    the reason is that alot of what was happening during that era, as i have read in the encyclopedia and time line books is that a huge amount of innovation was happening at that time, it seemed like warp coils were being redesigned almost every year. so i wish they would of incorporated more of that into the show, and around season 3 when that would of started to become stale, have the Romulan war, and ironically it would BE canon for that to occur around that time.

    -
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited January 2012
    i dont mind ENT, but its no DS9, clearly. What is pure torture for me is watching TOS and ENT was not on its level.

    bad:
    • the two seasons of random exploration was ok, not great, but ok.
    • it's no prison break, although that ran itself out of energy after half way through season 4, much like this ran itself out during season 3. i like the season long arc, it's just it's hard to focus on the whole thing without something strong contributing to the arc. i mean what kept me coming back for DS9 was Quark and Odo and T-bag and Bellick to Prison break and it also worked for Babylon 5 because of Londo and G'Kar. ENT didn't have that central focus.
    • the idea of this temporal cold war rubbish. However, no one would of been salivating over the ENT-J at the battle of Procyon otherwise.
    • TRIBBLE theme episode rubbish again. like VOY and TOS.
    • lack of Earth-Romulan war.

    good:
    • the Pre-TOS events, how starfleet was formed, at some point it was bound to happen in order to fill in the gaps between the Phoenix warp 1 flight after the ENT-E disappeared and TOS warp 7 ship.
    • shran. i always enjoyed the episodes where Shran was involved.
    • the enterprise almost destroyed but kept fighting and breaking their own morals and ideals to save the human spieces.
    • vulcan-human relations and certain aspects of their emotions and meditations, especially the dry humor from Trip when he comes to it.
    • the mirror universe episodes were alot of fun to watch.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited January 2012
    BlackV7 wrote:
    Enterprise pooped on everything Star Trek from the get go.

    A) Prequels - Really? Why must everything have a prequel and a crappy one at best.

    B) Theme song was utter TRIBBLE - different yes, but utter TRIBBLE

    C) Uninspiring Captain - Scott Bakula was a horrible choice for a Captain (I thought I was watching Quantum Leap over and over and over again)

    D) TEMPORAL COLD WAR BS - WTF - I thought this was suppose to be the founding of the Federation, the encounters with the Klingons, Andorians, Tellarites, and most of all THE ROMULANS - so instead we get shallow story arcs regarding the races mentioned, while being smothered with Xindi TRIBBLE or sulaban whatever you call them, blah

    E) Very boring and stale writing - with more of the same

    F) Characters were awful

    G) Lore / TRIBBLE on everything Star Trek Lore - complicating it even more

    H) The Extremely loooooong arcs ( though this may have worked for BSG - but remember we're talking about another animal - plus the Cylons was the main theme of BSG <--Which I love)

    To be honest I hate Voyager just as much as I do Enterprise - so Enterprise is hated slightly more

    A, B, C, D, E, F, and H are all subjective. As far as G goes, can you cite specific examples where Enterprise interferes with Star Trek lore? People commonly list 'continuity problems' as a reason for disliking ENT but then can't actually cite any, or very few. In fact, TOS (which is one of the most highly beloved series) was horrible about continuity. TNG had tons of continuity issues as well. I feel like ENT had the least amount of continuity issues of the 3 of those.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited January 2012
    People with the "they didn't have the Romulan war" thing as reason to not like the series - have you ever considered that they might have done just that in the seasons after its cancellation? Because how I see it, when Coto took over from Berman, he had to do something with what has been established during the series' first 3 seasons already, and he had no ability to really expand his own ideas. The fact that season 4 seems to be considered being among the better seasons actually speaks for itself.

    In any case, I don't get the explanation that the characters are too flat either. I actually think some of them are really well done (including Archer). They're no more shallow as Voyager's or TOS', and I wouldn't go as far and compare them to Voyager's crew.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited January 2012
    We were promised a glimpse in history's kitchen. That's basically it. What happened before the Federation got founded? How did it get founded? What do we do without a Prime Directive? I for one was expecting to find the first Enterprise's crew roughing things (and aliens, up), and learning things the hard way...

    Instead...

    Season 1,
    We're introduced to an Enterprise that was pretty much cut-and-paste from First Contact (which, mind you, was almost exactly the kind of look in history's kitchen I meant). They're already using their transporter by the end of the pilot, they've used plasma weapons just long enough to discard them, never to be seen again, by the end of the same episode. The plasma cannon on the ship itself is never to be used again after Enterprise gets phasers halfway through the season. By the end of the season, Reed tests a forcefield generator, and since then I forever dreaded them slapping shields on Enterprise and making the conversion complete.

    Right off the bat we get a decon chamber, which while making some sense, is clearly there for only one reason: To insult my intelligence. In Dear Doctor, Archer takes a look in his crystal ball and magics up a future rule to absolve him of what he's doing right now. (That episode would've been vastly improved by Archer giving them warp tech right off the bat, and he and the rest of Starfleet having to mop up the bad consequences for the following four seasons, while Soval and T'Pol stand tutting on the sideline and remind them they told them so. AND THEN YOU GET TO HAVE YOUR PRECIOUS PRIME DIRECTIVE!)

    On the bright side, we get Andorians and half a dozen decent episodes. The setting for Breaking The Ice definately has the early days of exploration down pretty well, Fortunate Son and Shuttlepod One, well... even sadists enjoy some things.

    Season 2,
    Not even the Borg are sacred, Con Air gets ripped off for Canamar, and even their own stories ("One", from Voyager) get cannibalized and regurgitated lukewarm into our waiting mouths in Singularity. Oh, and HUZZAH! Photon'ick' Torpedoes for everyone! All major technical developments in Federation history now neatly fit in a two year timespan right at the start. They sure build them exactly like they used to, huh?

    But I did like Minefield just for being there (a bit of Romulan War foreshadowing, even if we never got there), Future Tense giving us remastered Tholians, and First Flight. Not even half a dozen this time.

    Season 3,

    Well, at least they're not mangling canon anymore... but this isn't an improvement. A massive expanse of inaccessible space, an attack on Earth and species we'd never heard of before, or ever will again? This was Enterprise admitting defeat. They tried to create a prequel and had realized that they just plain sucked at it. So it became Just Some Space Show.

    With cowboys! Also, now we're ripping off faerytales too. It's not the Beauty and the Beast if he's telepathic, and she's Asian, right? And remember when we ripped off "One" last season? We can duplicate it more completely. Let's call it Doctor's Orders!

    I did like Carpenter Street, Damage, and Twilight (Particularly the lack of furries and androgynous vampires.) Cause you know... TRIBBLE. :cool:
    Season 4,
    Sadly, the damage at this point was done. The ratings began to pick up after Manny Coto took over and the show finally got to be about Star Trek. I have to criticize here too though. I felt on a few occasions that they just took it too far. First time during the Augments arc, when Arik Soong felt it necessary to go to (and name) the Briar Patch. (Like with the decon chamber, I got a very strong "I see what you're trying to do there" feeling. Canon product placement is taking a bit too far.) And explaining the forehead ridges was... unnecessary.

    Overall though, Season 4 held as many episodes I would label as good (and even great) than I would've called 'pretty good' in the previous three combined. So at this point as a fan I'm no longer angry at what's being presented to me... They were doing things right, but now it was too late. Past mistakes had killed it. There won't be a season 5.

    And who gets to write the sendoff? The guys who killed it, trying to get one last blow in.


    Look, there's a lot of bad sci-fi out there. I know, I get the SyFy channel. But Enterprise, any Star Trek series, doesn't get to be lazy, and settle for better than bad sci-fi. And I don't hate Enterprise...

    But I could gladly watch Berman and Braga slip and fall down an upgoing escalator covered in barb wire and salt.

    Cause you know...
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited January 2012
    For me, Star Trek is about going forward, meaning I want to see more series continue on and go forward. It's also why I hate JJ Trek.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited January 2012
    I like Reave's post. It doesn't cover my own opinion, but it's well composed. Kudos. ^_^

    However, I think that Enterprise not only suffered from these things, but also from bad timing outside. It aired shortly after the unpopular Voyager (the first ENT episode was aired in the same month Voyager had ended). I think that had quite an impact on the series as well - people were a bit oversaturated, and Voyager has made a lot of mistakes and bad impressions.

    I still stand by the point that Enterprise seems better than Voyager. At least its first season is miles better than VOY's. Alas.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited January 2012
    Enterprise was to Star Trek as Highlander 2 was to Highlander.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited January 2012
    Well, at least they're not mangling canon anymore... but this isn't an improvement.

    Can you be more specific? Mangling canon? I don't remember saying anything that we DIDN'T have force fields, phase cannons, photon torpedoes, transporters, etc by 2150. I mean, it's not like they had a holodeck.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited January 2012
    Alright, so maybe that one little bit of it wasn't completely fair. Other than the NX-01 being named Enterprise - while Enterprise's creators had made it quite clear in Voyager that it should've been named Dauntless, or have another registry number -, the somewhat non-sensical appearance of the Ferengi in season one, the time-travel/holodeck did it happen or didn't it happen bits, and the established line declaring the Earth-Romulan war would be fought with impulse ships and nuclear weapons (which may not necessarily need to mean antimatter based weapons don't exist yet), it generally isn't so much contradicting canon as sidestepping it, isolating the show from what follows, so maybe I should've said it just stopped raising false hopes when season 3 started.

    As rather than actually put some effort into it and integrate the events of Enterprise into the franchise's internal history, we get species that are never even alluded to in the other shows, such as the Suliban and Xindi, and of course aliens of the week, playing many of the major parts, while species that did at least occasionally get mentioned in these shows, like the Rigelians, got relegated to weening their kids off methyloxide in the pilot, and then sitting silently at a conference table toward the rear of the season 4.

    So yeah, you win that one, technically. Doesn't change my opinion about the show though. Which kind of seems to be what you're setting out to do with the thread. Looking to set up shop as the forum's Trekvangelist, are we? ;)
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    Reave wrote: »
    Alright, so maybe that one little bit of it wasn't completely fair. Other than the NX-01 being named Enterprise - while Enterprise's creators had made it quite clear in Voyager that it should've been named Dauntless, or have another registry number -, the somewhat non-sensical appearance of the Ferengi in season one, the time-travel/holodeck did it happen or didn't it happen bits, and the established line declaring the Earth-Romulan war would be fought with impulse ships and nuclear weapons (which may not necessarily need to mean antimatter based weapons don't exist yet), it generally isn't so much contradicting canon as sidestepping it, isolating the show from what follows, so maybe I should've said it just stopped raising false hopes when season 3 started.

    As rather than actually put some effort into it and integrate the events of Enterprise into the franchise's internal history, we get species that are never even alluded to in the other shows, such as the Suliban and Xindi, and of course aliens of the week, playing many of the major parts, while species that did at least occasionally get mentioned in these shows, like the Rigelians, got relegated to weening their kids off methyloxide in the pilot, and then sitting silently at a conference table toward the rear of the season 4.

    So yeah, you win that one, technically. Doesn't change my opinion about the show though. Which kind of seems to be what you're setting out to do with the thread. Looking to set up shop as the forum's Trekvangelist, are we? ;)

    It was Lorillians, not Rigelians, that had to wean off of methyloxide. http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Lorillian ;)

    Also, I'm not familiar with the statement about impulse ships and nuclear weapons for the Romulan war. If it's something that was casually mentioned in TOS you can pretty much throw it out.

    What was wrong with having the Ferengi in there? Or even the Borg for that matter? The Borg never said they were the Borg in the episode so it's not like that changed anything.

    Not trying to be a Trekvangelist per se, just trying to find out at the core what people didn't like about Enterprise. *Most* of the time the gripes are unfounded in my opinion. Also, I think a lot of people have a hard time with ENT if they don't start at the beginning. I'll admit I didn't get into it until I was able to sit down and start watching it from the beginning. Didn't watch it during the original run (nor did I watch DS9 or VOY during original run for that matter) but once I sat down and watched them back to back I really started getting into it.

    At least it isn't TOS. TOS is so hard to watch. ;)
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    Zehra wrote:
    Can you be more specific? Mangling canon? I don't remember saying anything that we DIDN'T have force fields, phase cannons, photon torpedoes, transporters, etc by 2150. I mean, it's not like they had a holodeck.

    Except they did four episodes in. At Warp 5 that race is essentially across the street and obviously a member of the Federation by the 23rd Century. Yet in the 24th Century, the holodeck is a new technological wonder.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    Zehra wrote:
    Also, I'm not familiar with the statement about impulse ships and nuclear weapons for the Romulan war. If it's something that was casually mentioned in TOS you can pretty much throw it out.
    Spock mentions that the Earth-Romulan war was fought with "primitive nuclear weapons" in the opener of "Balance of Terror" and later Scotty says the Romulan ship is "powered by pure impulse." Most fans considered this to mean the Romulans didn't have warp drive until their later dealings with the Klingons (whatever that was). That assumption, when you stop to think about it, is pretty silly when you figure that 1) The Romulans were an interstellar power by at least the 22nd century and 2) They fought a fairly extensive interstellar war with Earth.
    What was wrong with having the Ferengi in there? Or even the Borg for that matter? The Borg never said they were the Borg in the episode so it's not like that changed anything.
    The biggest issue with the Ferengi was that, at least according to "The Last Outpost," humans (and the Federation) had only sporatic contact with the Ferengi, and they had *no idea* what one looked like. Besides which, it was pretty stupid of Archer and T'Pol to tell the one Ferengi to steer clear of Earth ships, and yet neglect to ask, "by the way, what is the name of your race?" As for the Borg episode... yeah, lotta things in that episode that just don't gel with the (already) loose Trek canon.
    At least it isn't TOS. TOS is so hard to watch. ;)
    Not that hard; you just got to remember that there is *no* continuity in TOS. :p
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    and the worst of all, there were no Cardassians
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    I recently picked up the series and am near the end of season 1 currently. I have stayed away so far but I figure I would have to turn in my trekkie card if I didn't grin and bear the show.

    The bulk of my criticisms have been touched on already. Very weak characterization (I only know two things about Travis Mayweather: He grew up in space and he likes to talk about how he grew up in space), very poor writing from episode to episode, some being unbearably dull (The one where T'Pol gets mind TRIBBLE is a good example, because they really seem to enjoy doing that to women on Star Trek). The general canon violations.

    But there are a couple more that are really killing it for me. And mind you I know it gets a little better, but still:

    Scott Bakula: I love Bakula, I worship Bakula, and he is just not being utilized. He is an actor who excels at comedic timing. Why make him the blandest Captain on the planet? He's like a big old slice of white bread in a jumpsuit, and I know he can be so much more. I mean, you could have cast someone else as the Captain and made him just as bland. Why sign on Bakula and just give him nothing to work with?

    The Enterprise or just 'Enterprise'. I have no emotional connection to the ship. It doesn't feel like a home or a haven like the Original or the D or even Voyager. It doesn't feel like a badass like the Defiant. It isn't the little ship that could like Serenity. It isn't a clunky girl who's lagging behind everything but she's the best humanity has like the Battlestar Galactica. It's kind of a lanky teenager of a ship, too tough to be restrained or limit its characters, but too weak to make a difference in the galaxy. I just can't seem to fall in love with her, and its important to do that in Star Trek.

    Dear Doctor: Seriously? I thought it was a great episode and then they continue that senseless harping on the prime directive in a situation that doesn't make sense. Its a disease, genetic or not Phlox is a Doctor. It continues to propagate that naive attitude of how the Prime Directive should be applied. That it should be an excuse not to help rather than a way of protecting a culture.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    LordEvan88 wrote: »
    Scott Bakula: I love Bakula, I worship Bakula, and he is just not being utilized. He is an actor who excels at comedic timing. Why make him the blandest Captain on the planet? He's like a big old slice of white bread in a jumpsuit, and I know he can be so much more. I mean, you could have cast someone else as the Captain and made him just as bland. Why sign on Bakula and just give him nothing to work with?

    ...

    Dear Doctor: Seriously? I thought it was a great episode and then they continue that senseless harping on the prime directive in a situation that doesn't make sense. Its a disease, genetic or not Phlox is a Doctor. It continues to propagate that naive attitude of how the Prime Directive should be applied. That it should be an excuse not to help rather than a way of protecting a culture.

    I enjoyed Enterprise, they had some good ones in there. But I found Bakula's pacing during ship to ship conversations to be annoying after a while.

    Also the Prime Directive doesn't exist yet. If you get passed the flawed science behind the premise, the episode "Dear Doctor" was actually decent. I walked away from this trying to figure out what I would have done if I was the captain and didn't have some prime directive handed to me to fall back on. For all the options Archer was given, all of them invariably meant one of these two races were going to suffer.
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