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Constitution Class Ships with higher than Ensign Capabilities

SystemSystem Member, NoReporting Posts: 178,019 Arc User
Have you considered that giving the bridge officers of the Constitution Class Light cruiser and Cruiser from the Original Series higher than basic ensign capability in space? It would be more accurate than its current state. The very same officers have higher capability (Lt. commander etc..) on the ground missions but are limited to "ensign only" in space missions.

This would be more fair at least for Captain ranks and up. The Nebula Class and Intrepid class have a retrofit for Admirals that allowed this.
For those of us who really like the Original Series it would encourage more use of the vessel that started all of this. Everything we enjoy about Star Trek now is standing on the foundation of that single ship. I hope we never forget that. Thank you in advance for considering this.
Post edited by Unknown User on

Comments

  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited January 2012
    Yes, these exist as Tier 2 ships -- there is both a better version of the Constitution class as well as a C-Store refit version.

    Ship Comparison
    Light Cruiser - 12000 hull, 2 fore and 1 aft weapons, 200 crew, 1 tac console, 2 eng console, 1 sci console, 11.4 turn rate
    Cruiser - 19000 hull, 2 fore and 2 aft weapons, 400 crew,1 tac console, 2 eng console, 1 sci console, 9 turn rate
    Cruiser Refit - 19000 hull, 2 fore and 2 aft weapons, 400 crew, 1 tac console, 2 eng console, 2 sci console, 9 turn rate

    Bridge Officer Comparison
    Light Cruiser - 1 ensign tactical, 1 ensign engineering, 1 ensign science
    Cruiser - 1 ensign tactical, 1 ensign engineering, 1 ensign science, 1 lieutenant engineering
    Cruiser Refit - 1 ensign tactical, 1 ensign science, 2 lieutenant engineering

    If you want something that is better than that, you'll have to upgrade to a non-Constitution class. These are unlocked at level 20 and above. Admiral-level Constitution-class ships are not on schedule due to concerns from CBS and as such is out of Cryptic's hands.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited January 2012
    This argument has been played out in many forum posts. The Constitution Class that "PhyrexianHero" is talking about is from the Movie.

    They say that we will never see the Constitution Class in the upper levels but it would be nice to have a nice Captain build retrofit that we could push to the limits in end-of-game. It would be worth blowing up more if I could fly what I wanted.

    There were other ideas like selling a retrofit token to use on one ship to upgrade the slots or a holo technology to make a VA Cruiser look like a Constitution Class but I am not sure if they will ever do it. Even an 8 hour ship boost would be fine for me.

    It just makes sense to have a little better ship to fly at least AFTER commander level.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited January 2012
    Yes, these exist as Tier 2 ships -- there is both a better version of the Constitution class as well as a C-Store refit version.

    Ship Comparison
    Light Cruiser - 12000 hull, 2 fore and 1 aft weapons, 200 crew, 1 tac console, 2 eng console, 1 sci console, 11.4 turn rate
    Cruiser - 19000 hull, 2 fore and 2 aft weapons, 400 crew,1 tac console, 2 eng console, 1 sci console, 9 turn rate
    Cruiser Refit - 19000 hull, 2 fore and 2 aft weapons, 400 crew, 1 tac console, 2 eng console, 2 sci console, 9 turn rate

    Bridge Officer Comparison
    Light Cruiser - 1 ensign tactical, 1 ensign engineering, 1 ensign science
    Cruiser - 1 ensign tactical, 1 ensign engineering, 1 ensign science, 1 lieutenant engineering
    Cruiser Refit - 1 ensign tactical, 1 ensign science, 2 lieutenant engineering

    If you want something that is better than that, you'll have to upgrade to a non-Constitution class. These are unlocked at level 20 and above. Admiral-level Constitution-class ships are not on schedule due to concerns from CBS and as such is out of Cryptic's hands.

    I was kind of hoping for more than Lt. level ops for bridge officers. Just like the Intrepid that you can get once again at the Admiral level that has Lt. Commander and commander ops. Im aware of what they have already done. I was asking would they do more than this. All of the other ships and their concepts would not even exist if it wasnt for the work horse of the star trek universe that started it all. (The Constitution class from the Original series, not the version in the movies)
    I guess its a way of giving homage where its deserved. I would be willing to pay for the ship and it would be worth it. thanx 4 the info though.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited January 2012
    KKOSR wrote: »
    I was kind of hoping for more than Lt. level ops for bridge officers. Just like the Intrepid that you can get once again at the Admiral level that has Lt. Commander and commander ops. Im aware of what they have already done. I was asking would they do more than this. All of the other ships and their concepts would not even exist if it wasnt for the work horse of the star trek universe that started it all. (The Constitution class from the Original series, not the version in the movies)
    I guess its a way of giving homage where its deserved. I would be willing to pay for the ship and it would be worth it. thanx 4 the info though.

    They want to take account that those ships are 200 years old and they (CBS) does not want a lot of Constitution class ships being used by VA at the end of game. I agree with you about the slots but to make every ship unique and significant for each level of captain. So you are more than welcome to have commanders in each bridge position but the way the ship is configured it is only capable of using lower level (25th century) bridge officer skills.

    I want there to be an upgraded Constitution class that can be used as a Captain and Admiral but they have not committed to anything (yet)
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited January 2012
    For me it's the number of weapons slots vs BO slots a movie version Connie with 3/3 and LT Bo slots would be fun. not as effective as what i fly with the Sovvy, but would still be fun. to sweeten it 3/3, LT T,E,S and a fourth lt U slot... now we are hummin a tune...
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited January 2012
    For ages I've wanted to fly a Constitution class ship with more bridge officer slots.

    But now that the Odyssey is super close to being released, I'm pretty excited about that ship.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited January 2012
    For me it's the number of weapons slots vs BO slots a movie version Connie with 3/3 and LT Bo slots would be fun. not as effective as what i fly with the Sovvy, but would still be fun. to sweeten it 3/3, LT T,E,S and a fourth lt U slot... now we are hummin a tune...

    You find many would not object to a Commander level Connie ship, but if you look at the current tier structure, honestly just would not fit the current scheme.

    While, myself, oppose any t4-t5 connie add on, or any hologram as folks would exploit this as a "wolf in sheep's clothing" as STO unlike Champions online, does not have a way to distinguish PVP from PVE items, so that they can make all the litte cute trinkets PVE and leave them out of the PVP arena. That is my main crux of the issue.

    Also, as a smaller ship, and being 200 years old, we need to move forward with the current designs. While nostalgia I will always keep my connie in my inventory, and I even outfit it with the best things, I will never fly it in combat ever, as it is more nostalga to me then wanting it to be an actual fighting frontline ship.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited January 2012
    I'd be happy with two weapon slots up front, two weapon slots in the back. It's not really a big deal on weapons. A fore and aft chance to fire a torpedo feels Trek like. And a fore and aft phaser beam feels trek like. I could work with that.

    But I just want a BOFF layout that is far more reflective of the show. Spock was a science officer. Commander. Scotty was an Engineer. Lt. Commander. Chekov and Sulu. Uhura. Just more slots you know? So I can get that Trek feel.

    But as stated, the Odyssey pretty much puts a stake in the heart of my involvement in this long-standing debate. Finally a new top end cruiser that moves BEYOND old ships. I'm so tired of the Excelsior being the top dog cruiser you know? It was never the featured ship in any Trek movie, except Generations, where it got torn up by a space ribbon. The Constitution carried so many shows and films. Then the Galaxy.Then the Sovereign.

    For me it's just nice to finally move forward. The Odyssey. A brand new flagship. It's exciting.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited January 2012
    KKOSR wrote: »
    Have you considered that giving the bridge officers of the Constitution Class Light cruiser and Cruiser from the Original Series higher than basic ensign capability in space? It would be more accurate than its current state. The very same officers have higher capability (Lt. commander etc..) on the ground missions but are limited to "ensign only" in space missions.

    This would be more fair at least for Captain ranks and up. The Nebula Class and Intrepid class have a retrofit for Admirals that allowed this.
    For those of us who really like the Original Series it would encourage more use of the vessel that started all of this. Everything we enjoy about Star Trek now is standing on the foundation of that single ship. I hope we never forget that. Thank you in advance for considering this.

    This.

    The TOS Constitution cannot hang with level 50 mobs. Sad, because it would be fun to do the full TOS thing. But then, there's the tapping the com-badge to beam out and the TNG-era tricorders....ah, well.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    superchum wrote: »
    I'd be happy with two weapon slots up front, two weapon slots in the back. It's not really a big deal on weapons. A fore and aft chance to fire a torpedo feels Trek like. And a fore and aft phaser beam feels trek like. I could work with that.

    But I just want a BOFF layout that is far more reflective of the show. Spock was a science officer. Commander. Scotty was an Engineer. Lt. Commander. Chekov and Sulu. Uhura. Just more slots you know? So I can get that Trek feel.

    But as stated, the Odyssey pretty much puts a stake in the heart of my involvement in this long-standing debate. Finally a new top end cruiser that moves BEYOND old ships. I'm so tired of the Excelsior being the top dog cruiser you know? It was never the featured ship in any Trek movie, except Generations, where it got torn up by a space ribbon. The Constitution carried so many shows and films. Then the Galaxy.Then the Sovereign.

    For me it's just nice to finally move forward. The Odyssey. A brand new flagship. It's exciting.

    Agreed, but there are higher levels of bridge officer options for ground missions. Its only sensible not to demote them because they go back to the bridge. I agree with what you say here about Spock, and scotty and so on..... that would even be fair and acceptable.

    The nostalgia thing I dont so much agree with because there are those of us who would like to play the Origianl Series experience. Im for new designs totally. I also know there would be no new designs without the old one. We can treat it better than we have.
    Im not asking for 4 weapon slots in the front and back (although 2 separate phaser slots seem acurate because one doesnt really give the feel of 2 beams coming out and then add one photon.. maybe 2 slots in the back.. ) However what Im speaking is more bridge officer capabilites. Like you said Spock was a commander and the science station needs to be at the commander level, Scotty Lt. Commander level and so on.. thats fair as well as acurate for the constitution class ship.

    FOr those of you who fear seeing an updated version of the constitution class out there in pvp I think you are just afraid of getting beat by an old man... lol. Pretty much like the old guy at the YMCA that finds a way to beat you in basketball!!! lol!!!! Give us original series trekkies our due. After all we are not trying to go fight the borg lol. Traditional enemies will do. Im sure we can tick off enough Klingons and Romulans in the process. lol Tell me what you think.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    This is part of why I push so hard for the Ambassador Class. It's newer than the Excelsior, and it still has that "Classic Starship" feeling.

    It's the last "Cruiser" class of ship known to have used the Maroon Monsters as standard duty uniforms. (albeit without the turtlenecks).
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    KKOSR wrote: »
    For those of you who fear seeing an updated version of the constitution class out there in pvp I think you are just afraid of getting beat by an old man... lol. Pretty much like the old guy at the YMCA that finds a way to beat you in basketball!!! lol!!!! Give us original series trekkies our due. After all we are not trying to go fight the borg lol. Traditional enemies will do. Im sure we can tick off enough Klingons and Romulans in the process. lol Tell me what you think.

    LOL!! Love this ^

    I really think that this would be a good thing!
    Unfortunately the Excelsior Cruiser Retrofit is the closest we are going to get and it is Rear Admiral ship. I do have troubles trying to figure out why the Excelsior which is only 10 or 15 years newer than the Enterprise that it is all of a sudden a Rear Admiral level ship just because it does not have that 70’s look to the interior.

    I think part of the problem for Cryptic (besides the CBS issue) is that they have to make ships unique. It is not to limit the Bridge Officers or anything. They have to do this in order to make (captain) rank specific ships for different levels. With these difference we are not demoting the BO’s we are limiting their abilities with the ship design. They may all be Commanders but they are only able to utilize lower abilities now that they are in the 25th century.

    Now I really think that a Connie can be retrofitted easily. With 25th century technology all of the internal controls can be transported out and new modern equipment can be beamed back in. The outer shell can be easily armoured up and then you should at least be able to have a 25th century retrofit (which is different than the Motion Picture Refit)

    The C-Store could have a skin that costs 2,000-3,000 C-Store points that looks like the enterprise but beefed up a little more (so as to not be a wolf in sheep’s clothing) and then upgrade the BO slots to at least a Rear Admiral ship configuration. If it is something that people can work for, then to me it would be worth it. Since Dilitium can be converted into C-Store points if this is the only thing that people want, then they can obtain it without spending real money.

    I want a Connie to fly at the end of game :)
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    I am completely for any change to the game that allows us to use more Bridge officer Skills on lower Tier Starships!

    The Lower Tier ships already have fewer weapons, less hull strength, fewer device slots, fewer console upgrade slots, weaker shields and fewer Bridge officer Stations. So why the hell do they get limited use out of the few Bridge Officer Stations that they do have? It makes no sense to me whatsoever!!!
    It isn’t as if you allowed the T1 ships to actually use Bridge Officer Abilities, in accordance to their rank following the scheme of Engineer, Science and Tactical ship Bridge Station laid out in the game that they would, be able to go head to head with any of the T4 and T5 Ships. Maybe, just maybe you might see a T1 Ship once in a blue moon get the advantage on a T3 Ship. Maybe! Not Likely though..!
    So why don’t they do it? I have a theory; it doesn’t put any money in their pockets to allow people to use their favorite ships.

    And I know people will say, well you can still use them. Sure you can fly them around and get blown up over and over and over again. However, if we who fly them had a few more Bridge Officer Abilities to play with… we might be able to at least make it more of a pain in the neck to do it.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    yeah, I'd like to see something done with the Constitution refit. damn near unplayable, except for DSE's in certain cestors
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    RedTabby wrote:
    This.

    The TOS Constitution cannot hang with level 50 mobs. Sad, because it would be fun to do the full TOS thing. But then, there's the tapping the com-badge to beam out and the TNG-era tricorders....ah, well.

    Man thats a good point, I wonder could they fix that where when you beam out you take out a communicator for TOS missions. That would be so cool. Or just have a TOS throwback option of the game, where it would not confuse the universe since these trekkie newbs are so worried about a constitution class beating a galaxy class star ship. lol

    The same capability for on the ground should be allowed in space for rank appropiate levels.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    QUOTE=KKOSR;3990502]FOr those of you who fear seeing an updated version of the constitution class out there in pvp I think you are just afraid of getting beat by an old man... lol. Pretty much like the old guy at the YMCA that finds a way to beat you in basketball!!! lol!!!! Give us original series trekkies our due. After all we are not trying to go fight the borg lol. Traditional enemies will do. Im sure we can tick off enough Klingons and Romulans in the process. lol Tell me what you think.

    LOL!! Love this ^

    I really think that this would be a good thing!
    Unfortunately the Excelsior Cruiser Retrofit is the closest we are going to get and it is Rear Admiral ship. I do have troubles trying to figure out why the Excelsior which is only 10 or 15 years newer than the Enterprise that it is all of a sudden a Rear Admiral level ship just because it does not have that 70’s look to the interior.

    I think part of the problem for Cryptic (besides the CBS issue) is that they have to make ships unique. It is not to limit the Bridge Officers or anything. They have to do this in order to make (captain) rank specific ships for different levels. With these difference we are not demoting the BO’s we are limiting their abilities with the ship design. They may all be Commanders but they are only able to utilize lower abilities now that they are in the 25th century.

    Now I really think that a Connie can be retrofitted easily. With 25th century technology all of the internal controls can be transported out and new modern equipment can be beamed back in. The outer shell can be easily armoured up and then you should at least be able to have a 25th century retrofit (which is different than the Motion Picture Refit)

    The C-Store could have a skin that costs 2,000-3,000 C-Store points that looks like the enterprise but beefed up a little more (so as to not be a wolf in sheep’s clothing) and then upgrade the BO slots to at least a Rear Admiral ship configuration. If it is something that people can work for, then to me it would be worth it. Since Dilitium can be converted into C-Store points if this is the only thing that people want, then they can obtain it without spending real money.

    I want a Connie to fly at the end of game :)[/QUOTE]

    Wow! thats a major idea.... I could go for that too!
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    KKOSR wrote: »
    The C-Store could have a skin that costs 2,000-3,000 C-Store points that looks like the enterprise but beefed up a little more (so as to not be a wolf in sheep’s clothing) and then upgrade the BO slots to at least a Rear Admiral ship configuration. If it is something that people can work for, then to me it would be worth it. Since Dilitium can be converted into C-Store points if this is the only thing that people want, then they can obtain it without spending real money.

    Another thought I had from your past is to sell Bridge Officer Stations and Console Upgrades in the C-Store.

    Each ship would have a maximum upgrade matrix (of course) but you could have something like this where you could add:

    Bridge Officer Station:
    1 Universal Ensign Bridge Officer Station; = 400 CP
    1 Universal Lieutenant Bridge Officer Station; = 700 CP
    1 Universal Lieutenant Commander Bridge Officer Station; = 1,000 CP
    1 Universal Commander Bridge Officer Station; = 1,200 CP

    Console Upgrades:
    1 Universal Console = 1,200 CP

    That sort of thing. It would give revenue for the upgrades and if we want to bump up our TOS Connie a little but we could upgrade it with (something like) 2 Bridge Officer Stations and 3 Consoles. The crew size and the hull would remain the same but the ship would be retrofitted for as little as 400 CPs to a maximum of 6000 CP. This would allow people to get what they want at a cost or play the game and use their dilithium to get it.

    The numbers could be worked out better b/c I started with the Commander Bridge Officer Station IMO being as valuable as a ship skin at 1,200 CP.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    Another thought I had from your past is to sell Bridge Officer Stations and Console Upgrades in the C-Store.

    Each ship would have a maximum upgrade matrix (of course) but you could have something like this where you could add:

    Bridge Officer Station:
    1 Universal Ensign Bridge Officer Station; = 400 CP
    1 Universal Lieutenant Bridge Officer Station; = 700 CP
    1 Universal Lieutenant Commander Bridge Officer Station; = 1,000 CP
    1 Universal Commander Bridge Officer Station; = 1,200 CP

    Console Upgrades:
    1 Universal Console = 1,200 CP

    That sort of thing. It would give revenue for the upgrades and if we want to bump up our TOS Connie a little but we could upgrade it with (something like) 2 Bridge Officer Stations and 3 Consoles. The crew size and the hull would remain the same but the ship would be retrofitted for as little as 400 CPs to a maximum of 6000 CP. This would allow people to get what they want at a cost or play the game and use their dilithium to get it.

    The numbers could be worked out better b/c I started with the Commander Bridge Officer Station IMO being as valuable as a ship skin at 1,200 CP.

    Man are u sure you dont work for cryptic? lol If you dont they need to hire you. Your ideas are excellent. I could go for both your ideas easy and would be willing to pay for it as well. I do hope that you all will consider these revisions seriously for the TOS ships. Thank you in advance.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    Maybe a better idea than recreating the ship or purchasing BO station for C-Credits, could be have the BO Stations upgrade accordingly to your character's rank. So at RA you'd have Lt.Cm slots instead of Ensign, (Approximately a 2 rank increase for the end) so you still have abilties, AND A cool ship. Similar to those scaling gear and weapons we love.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    KKOSR wrote: »
    Man are u sure you dont work for cryptic? lol If you dont they need to hire you. Your ideas are excellent. I could go for both your ideas easy and would be willing to pay for it as well. I do hope that you all will consider these revisions seriously for the TOS ships. Thank you in advance.
    LOL Yes I am sure. I should be actually working at WORK but I get distracted.

    I think that two of the problems here are I have no idea how these systems work so all of my "good" ideas may be impossible to implement. The other problems are; do they have a programmer free that can work on something like this, is it a priority when others want content, and will it make more money.

    I like the idea but they cost money and I feel sorry for people that can barely put the $15/month into the game. I am lucky. My wife paid for half of a lifetime before she left me lol
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    KKOSR wrote: »
    Agreed, but there are higher levels of bridge officer options for ground missions. Its only sensible not to demote them because they go back to the bridge. I agree with what you say here about Spock, and scotty and so on..... that would even be fair and acceptable.

    The nostalgia thing I dont so much agree with because there are those of us who would like to play the Origianl Series experience. Im for new designs totally. I also know there would be no new designs without the old one. We can treat it better than we have.
    Im not asking for 4 weapon slots in the front and back (although 2 separate phaser slots seem acurate because one doesnt really give the feel of 2 beams coming out and then add one photon.. maybe 2 slots in the back.. ) However what Im speaking is more bridge officer capabilites. Like you said Spock was a commander and the science station needs to be at the commander level, Scotty Lt. Commander level and so on.. thats fair as well as acurate for the constitution class ship.

    FOr those of you who fear seeing an updated version of the constitution class out there in pvp I think you are just afraid of getting beat by an old man... lol. Pretty much like the old guy at the YMCA that finds a way to beat you in basketball!!! lol!!!! Give us original series trekkies our due. After all we are not trying to go fight the borg lol. Traditional enemies will do. Im sure we can tick off enough Klingons and Romulans in the process. lol Tell me what you think.

    I totally agree here..

    on a separate note if any one thinks that the "Constitiution Class TOS" didn't have AFT Torpedos then you need to view this clip from "In a mirror darkly" See at 4:00 Minutes

    http://youtu.be/sm63K_tkkFc

    Also AFT torpedos were on Constituion Class ships in the Star Trek Legacy Game.

    I think it would be more sensable to make these classic ships retrofit yet standard for the times. Or at least let them Grow with you.

    I do take my old girl out for a spin on some PVE missions, though I get creamed all the time, I still love the look and feel of these old ships... As well as some of the new ones :).
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