Man, I thought I had seen the trololol of all trolling, flaming and I quit posts here during STO's rocky start, but my God the Star Wars Old Republic forums are completely on fire.
I personally and fervently wish to take back any and everything I ever said about how this forum was run or anyone who ever posted anything I disagreed with -- the worst trolls produced here wouldn't even hold a candle to the ones at TOR.
The forums don't even have a SEARCH function, ffs.
Man, I thought I had seen the trololol of all trolling, flaming and I quit posts here during STO's rocky start, but my God the Star Wars Old Republic forums are completely on fire.
I personally and fervently wish to take back any and everything I ever said about how this forum was run or anyone who ever posted anything I disagreed with -- the worst trolls produced here wouldn't even hold a candle to the ones at TOR.
The forums don't even have a SEARCH function, ffs.
I agree, the TOR forums is a warzone - STO forums is truly a very Federation type setting compared to all the trolling, flaming, and unknowns that are going on over there. I thought STO was bad, but this is heaven compare to the Hell thats being release on those forums.
Man, I thought I had seen the trololol of all trolling, flaming and I quit posts here during STO's rocky start, but my God the Star Wars Old Republic forums are completely on fire.
I personally and fervently wish to take back any and everything I ever said about how this forum was run or anyone who ever posted anything I disagreed with -- the worst trolls produced here wouldn't even hold a candle to the ones at TOR.
The forums don't even have a SEARCH function, ffs.
The search function was disabled due to heavy server strain--they said they'd bring it back later.
However, the community is pretty jaded and rough with each other.
The game was hyped through the roof. There was no way anything crafted by mortal hands could be as amazing as the game was hyped. Is it good? Yep, read the reviews. Is it everything we all dreamed and hoped? No, and people are ****y because of the sheer numbers of people trying to flood into the game. STO was never this popular. Honestly, TOR is a game to spend money on. Good thing STO is going F2P.
IMO the trolling that has primarily occurred here has been in response to Cryptic's decision making abilities (or lack thereof). Is the same happening on TOR or is it more player cannibalism?
i know why i did not jump on the hype...
i learned my lesson from STO
first 30 - 60 days in an MMO means, you have ALL the 30-Day-Demo players to deal with that will HATE on the game.
you will have the worst Server performance of the lifecycle of the game.... because EVERYONE wants to play in that time. (do you remember beaming into space as human and onto ESD as your Ship? ...good old pathetic times)
AND not to mention, the longer you wait buying the game the cheaper the reatil box will get.
Why the hell would anyone spend 75 EURO on a Retail box for an MMO that wants money again from you in 30 days.
If i look at RIFT... which isn't that old either, 5 EURO on steam... same for STO... DCUO launched later thatn STO and is already F2P too.
I will either wait for the Box Price to drop to rock bottom or for it to go F2P (which no one will admit it will happen, but they ALL do at some point.)
Anyway, i am happy with STO as my grind MMO, if i want one thing from TOR it's the Story, i may want to play every single char for the Story, but i sure as hell will not give a sh*t about *unique color lightsaber limited time pre order collectors edition item XYZ* ...pffft.
I played the Open Beta for those 2 days... the game isn't the worst i played so far but it did nothing that would made me want to BUY NOW.
So...
Prediction Nr. 1 ...forums on fire and full with trolls. Check!
It should clear up by the end of the month. All of the queens will have to pay cash if they want to keep complaining about their unrealistic expectations of the game and how it failed them.
A good indication of why you never play a MMO during the first few months. It's kinda like buying a brand new car during the first model year... no matter how thoroughly it was tested there are always bugs to work out.
I'm interested in the game, but the high price combined with all the TRIBBLE I'm reading about it means I'm sitting on the fence. I will continue to keep tabs on it but probably won't consider purchasing for at least 3 months.
A good indication of why you never play a MMO during the first few months. It's kinda like buying a brand new car during the first model year... no matter how thoroughly it was tested there are always bugs to work out.
I'm interested in the game, but the high price combined with all the TRIBBLE I'm reading about it means I'm sitting on the fence. I will continue to keep tabs on it but probably won't consider purchasing for at least 3 months.
Probably a good idea if you're not willing to take the leap. Keep in mind the best opinion and most important opinion on the game or anything really is your own. I'd take everything you read with a grain of salt.
It should clear up by the end of the month. All of the queens will have to pay cash if they want to keep complaining about their unrealistic expectations of the game and how it failed them.
I wouldn't say "unrealistic" for a game with a 300 mil. budget, ~5 years in development, which costs the player a truck-load of money, then a monthly fee, for pretty much a single player experience.
The current TOR would have perfectly fit in KOTOR 3, but nooooooooo, we get a retail box + monthly fee, just because we get a KOTOR with a global chat?
I'm sorry if my expectations of a 2012 AAA mmorpg are too high.
Remeber that Rift was also quite hyped and played at launch. Right now...people seem to have understood that they've been paying for a wow clone (I hate this term so much, but that's life).
I believe that TOR will be getting a quick expansion and then (if unsuccessful) will become f2p or at least give up the out-of-place monthly fee.
I have actually started to see hope in STO's f2p future. And thank God for that. I would rather have a smaller company like Cryptic be successful, rather than the money-grubbing juggernaut EA we all know and hate...
IMO the trolling that has primarily occurred here has been in response to Cryptic's decision making abilities (or lack thereof). Is the same happening on TOR or is it more player cannibalism?
From what I saw there were a lot of butthurt WoW players playing TOR that were irked because their favorite feature wasn't in the game, yet. They assumed it was going to launch bug free. MMOs don't do that, and they never estimate the number of people coming in to play initially. They had long queues and not enough servers. They opened more and the queues have thus far, vanished. At least I've not seen any on my server.
It's more or less a contingent of whiny pre-teens and WoW Fan boys raging for one reason or another. It'll settle down. Brass tacks, BioWare made a great game, that will only get better with refinement. They didn't suffer the time constraints to push it live that Cryptic did with STO.
I wouldn't say "unrealistic" for a game with a 300 mil. budget, ~5 years in development, which costs the player a truck-load of money, then a monthly fee, for pretty much a single player experience.
The current TOR would have perfectly fit in KOTOR 3, but nooooooooo, we get a retail box + monthly fee, just because we get a KOTOR with a global chat?
I'm sorry if my expectations of a 2012 AAA mmorpg are too high.
Remeber that Rift was also quite hyped and played at launch. Right now...people seem to have understood that they've been paying for a wow clone (I hate this term so much, but that's life).
I believe that TOR will be getting a quick expansion and then (if unsuccessful) will become f2p or at least give up the out-of-place monthly fee.
I have actually started to see hope in STO's f2p future. And thank God for that. I would rather have a smaller company like Cryptic be successful, rather than the money-grubbing juggernaut EA we all know and hate...
I miss SW: Galaxies...:rolleyes:
Let's be honest, what were you expecting for ToR at release?
My list was:
Stable servers.
Relatively bug free experience.
Server queues.
Story focused and driven content.
For the most part I got everything on that list, as for game features. I'd wait a year before I start attacking the game for the lack of any significant feature, changes, content or bug fixes.
Let's be honest, what were you expecting for ToR at release?
My list was:
Stable servers.
Relatively bug free experience.
Server queues.
Story focused and driven content.
For the most part I got everything on that list, as for game features. I'd wait a year before I start attacking the game for the lack of any significant feature, changes, content or bug fixes.
Like I said before, I was expecting a game worth the 300 mil budget and 5 years in development. A game worth the 60$ + 15$ monthly fee. And no, story alone does not make for a good mmo. Story is required, yes, but it is not the ONLY thing needed. Apparently, in 5 years of dev, this is the only original thing they could come up with. Take my money Bioware...I think not.
Again, TOR is KOTOR 3 basically, but with a monthly fee, because it has a global chat and players can some do missions together. I am sorry, but that is just bull$%#&.
TOR has no redeeming features, other than the dialogue mechanic, which is not an original feature to begin with (KOTOR, ME, Gothic, Risen etc).
For me, TOR = WoW + dialogue mechanic + Star Wars universe. Heck, they even went so far that instead of bats or gryphons, you use speedbikes to go from one place to another. It is just depressing to even think of this. It's like they were afraid to cross the line and deviate from the WoW recipe.
And in case people say I'm mistaking, I would also like some proof.
The problem, as many others have said, is that there is no point in paying monthly for this game, once you've finished all the careers.
Dungeons, instances, raids? Gimme a break...those are the most standard, cliche and overused things since the days of old Everquest.
When you ask someone who still plays the game why does he do it, the sole reply is "for the story".
Aha, so I guess you don't care that you're paying a monthly fee for a single player game? You don't care anything, other than the storyline?
So I guess that if WoW will get a dialogue mechanic implemented tomorrow (or Rift or Silkroad Online) you will instantly start paying and playing that game because of the storyline? Sure, sure, I believe you.
Since when do people have so low standards and expectations of a game like this?
I will tell you: because they are afraid to admit they've been ripped-off and are looking for anything that might stand-out in some way, shape or form.
Only time will make them admit that they were wrong.
Like I said before, I was expecting a game worth the 300 mil budget and 5 years in development. A game worth the 60$ + 15$ monthly fee. And no, story alone does not make for a good mmo. Story is required, yes, but it is not the ONLY thing needed. Apparently, in 5 years of dev, this is the only original thing they could come up with. Take my money Bioware...I think not..
When STO came out it cost about the same price and had the sub too, but cost considerably less. From an STO perspective, you are getting a more polished and deeper developed game than STO was at launch, for the same price.
Again, TOR is KOTOR 3 basically, but with a monthly fee, because it has a global chat and players can some do missions together. I am sorry, but that is just bull$%#&.
TOR has no redeeming features, other than the dialogue mechanic, which is not an original feature to begin with (KOTOR, ME, Gothic, Risen etc).
For me, TOR = WoW + dialogue mechanic + Star Wars universe. Heck, they even went so far that instead of bats or gryphons, you use speedbikes to go from one place to another. It is just depressing to even think of this. It's like they were afraid to cross the line and deviate from the WoW recipe.
And in case people say I'm mistaking, I would also like some proof..
It's an MMO, WoW didn't invent the genre, almost everything in WoW was taken from previous MMO's, WoW just put it together in a good way and polished it further, to me ToR has doing the same thing, taken proven mechanics from the MMO genre and polished them further. If it works, why fix it?
Eve Online has done a good job of breaking the MMO recipe, but there genuinly is only so much you can do. The developers had a target of making an MMO based on the KotOR games and in my opinion, they've done just that, but people seem annoyed that the game is like KotOR, but to be honest, that was what they wanted to do from the start, so I don't get why people are annoyed by that.
The problem, as many others have said, is that there is no point in paying monthly for this game, once you've finished all the careers.
Dungeons, instances, raids? Gimme a break...those are the most standard, cliche and overused things since the days of old Everquest..
To be honest, this is an argument that has been around since MMO's began and with more games going F2P, its getting used even more so now. However, I still don't believe the F2P model is proven to be good for the genre yet, althoguh it is good at getting revenue, it does so by gouging the customer and although customers may fall for it now, time will tell how customer behavior adapts to it. For example, the grab bags in STO set a precedent for players spending alot of money on them, however, due to the way it was done, Cryptic have probably scared thier customers away from doing it again, so, whilst things like F2P may seem good now, time will tell, personally I prefer the subscription model since its way more cheaper for the customer and it doesn't fill the game with content I need to be rich to play!
When you ask someone who still plays the game why does he do it, the sole reply is "for the story".
Aha, so I guess you don't care that you're paying a monthly fee for a single player game? You don't care anything, other than the storyline?
So I guess that if WoW will get a dialogue mechanic implemented tomorrow (or Rift or Silkroad Online) you will instantly start paying and playing that game because of the storyline? Sure, sure, I believe you.
It's far to early to say. There are still very few players at level 50 and as such many players have yet to engage in the group content. Yesterday I saw a guy complaining about lack of endgame content in ToR, he was lvl 5, his main was level 35, how the hell can he make claims about the endgame? ToR has endgame raids, it has heroic flashpoints (far more than STO has), it has world bosses, it has dailies, it has a whole bunch of stuff for people to do. Once guilds start forming properly, you will find more people will start playing it for the endgame content, right now though, most players are enjoying leveling thier charactors and enjoying thier storylines. For the record, I play it cause I think its a great game, I love the storyline 'and' I love interacting with other players.
Since when do people have so low standards and expectations of a game like this?
I will tell you: because they are afraid to admit they've been ripped-off and are looking for anything that might stand-out in some way, shape or form.
Only time will make them admit that they were wrong.
To be honest, I feel far more ripped off by STO, I bought multiple copies of this game for pre.order bonuses and collectors edition perks which I believed were exclusive but were later put on the C-Store, i also bought an LTS in the assumption the game would stay subscription based, due to the fact I've taken breaks from the game, I actually didn't play teh game long enough (month for month) for my intial investment in the LTS to pay off, if I'd just suscribed for the months i've played, I'd of payed less than what I got my LTS for. So in all fairness, I certainly do not feel ripped off by TOR sonce I actually payed far less for it than I did for STO. If anything Cryptics greed in regards to how they marketed the CE's and LTS has set the precedent that many players, such as myself, will never buy a CE or LTS for a game ever again, thus they've actually damaged the MMO industry with the precident they set.
As to the TOR forums, yeah, they are MMO forums, they are ALL the same, more so during the first month or so when you have the players that have bought the game but don't like it (and have a month to let everyone know how much they don't like it before thier freetime runs out). The forums here were certainly not as rosey as some people seem to portray when the game launched. After going though some threads on the TOR forums, I've seen several that are just rants over high expectations, I've even seem some complaining about bugs that have already been fixed, hell, I've even seen threads from people complaining about features that they want in the game that already are in the game, they just don't realise. Give it a few months and the core community will begin to form, people will know how to play the game and all the players that dislike the game will move on to the next new MMO that doesn't fulfil thier desires (that been the holy grail MMO that has no MMO features in it).
It's an MMO, WoW didn't invent the genre, almost everything in WoW was taken from previous MMO's, WoW just put it together in a good way and polished it further, to me ToR has doing the same thing, taken proven mechanics from the MMO genre and polished them further. If it works, why fix it?
It's more than that. Bioware/EA knew what made WoW a success. It didn't matter if the game was any good, they only cared about the number (hence why they were saying that the game will have 2 mil players from day 1 - that's all they cared about).
So they had two options: 1. come up with an original and less mainstreamed gameplay and hope for the best or 2. implement features found in the world's most popular mmo to date and play it safe.
They chose the second option, because they were targeting the numbers (aka WoW players) and made 90% of the game similar to it.
It is clear which is their target audience.
Eve Online has done a good job of breaking the MMO recipe, but there genuinly is only so much you can do. The developers had a target of making an MMO based on the KotOR games and in my opinion, they've done just that, but people seem annoyed that the game is like KotOR, but to be honest, that was what they wanted to do from the start, so I don't get why people are annoyed by that.
Yes, but it's a KOTOR with a monthly fee. And I've seen this argument many times: it doesn't have elaborate space combat and exploration because it is a KOTOR sequel.
Then let me ask one thing: did KOTOR have dungeons and instances which were not directly linked to the character's progression and were more like side-quests? No, in fact in KOTOR when the main story ends, the game ends. This is not the case with TOR, as they are trying to expand by using an already unoriginal, boring and overused dungeon system.
But that's it. Beyond those dungeons, there is little to justify a monthly fee, once you've finished the story part.
Not to mention that TOR is a lot (A LOT) more mainstreamed than KOTOR. So this is where the "it's a KOTOR sequel so leave it alone" excuse falls apart.
To be honest, this is an argument that has been around since MMO's began and with more games going F2P, its getting used even more so now. However, I still don't believe the F2P model is proven to be good for the genre yet, althoguh it is good at getting revenue, it does so by gouging the customer and although customers may fall for it now, time will tell how customer behavior adapts to it. For example, the grab bags in STO set a precedent for players spending alot of money on them, however, due to the way it was done, Cryptic have probably scared thier customers away from doing it again, so, whilst things like F2P may seem good now, time will tell, personally I prefer the subscription model since its way more cheaper for the customer and it doesn't fill the game with content I need to be rich to play!
Nothing is perfect and nothing will ever be perfect. Cryptic made a good move, because they were anticipating at TOR's hype (not quality) would attract a ton of players. At the end of the day however, STO will gain more from SWTOR's partial failure.
The point is that Bioware/EA marketed this game like it was the second descent of God on Earth, the ultimate experience, the best of the best. And TOR really isn't like that at all. Apart from the dialogues, also found in other games I mentioned my previous post, there is nothing original, nothing groundbreaking. TOR has a deja-vu feeling to it, which could have been avoided in the 5 years this game was in development...
So the question comes: why pay for it? To finish the main storyline. Fine, I totally understand that. But what justifies paying for it beyond that point?
In my opinion, TOR was a gold mine. A chance to really change the way MMOs are, a new generation. Instead, we got a disappointing and unoriginal experience, which continues the themepark mmo trend which started with Blizzard's product.
And I continue to say that people have some damn low expectations for a game like TOR and expect so little in return for their money.
Again, please prove me wrong.
Remember, this is the year 2012 and so little progress was made in regards to TOR. "Polishing" older mechanics does not justify this game's existence.
Considering that all the most Recent "I-Quit" Troll/flame posts here ended with "I am leaving for TOR", I find this to be no great surprise.
xD
And the same people there now do the same.. an wil leave for (insert any upcoming MMO)...
Yes, I remember those early days when people on these forums complained about this and that, even the minutia, and then threatened to jump ship / ragequit because TOR was going to be the Second Coming of... MMOs (sure, let's go with that). And now they're probably over there, doing the same thing because the grass there isn't as green as they thought it would be, and threatening to jump ship to DUST415 or whatever new game or MMO will be coming out in the near future.
Good luck with that, constant malcontents, and good riddance
I wouldn't say "unrealistic" for a game with a 300 mil. budget, ~5 years in development (...)
A lot of time and money went into the voice acting alone. I heard the script for the game is about 3x the size of War and Peace. But that's just hearsay.
My biggest gripe with TOR? All that money spent making a game that frankly looks pretty good... and not one ounce of actual in-game footage in any of the TV spots. All the spots are all flash and no substance. In an age where games are looking better and better every day, and almost every TV spot for any console game is has a good share of in-game footage in the spot, it befuddles me. Not that I have time to get into another MMO.
It should clear up by the end of the month. All of the queens will have to pay cash if they want to keep complaining about their unrealistic expectations of the game and how it failed them.
I wouldn't be so sure, considering how many people here seem to linger despite being very clearly unhappy...
What do you expect in a universe where Jar jar can be an ambassador?
The ONLY good thing about the last 3 movies is i can blame it all on Jar Jar.
and i wonder of there is a Maturity level between here and there? i wonder if there is a maturity level diffrence between Star Trek fans and Star Wars Fans?
I knew this was gonna happen. SWTOR was a disaster from the very moment it was announced that bioware was making the game. I don't think they've ever done a multiplayer game before, that is a requirement for a MMO, it would have taught them how class balancing and pvp works. They would have also learned about how community reacts to more than just bug reports and questions about quests.
I'd like to say they copied WoW but they didn't. The class structure is more like an asian mmo with its branching class paths and rail based spaceflight, well need I say more?
The only thing so far I really used on the forums was the Sith Inquisitor Guide, which seems well done. I'll probably avoid the forums for a while longer.
But I think the game is good.
Is it KoTor 3? I think it's at least KoToR 3, 4 and maybe even 5. There is class-specific content for 8 classes, plus faction-specific content for 2 factions. Due to the shared content elements is is certainly not 16 games in one, but it's definitely more than one KoToR ever was.
And I think Bioware did the multiplayer content admirable. The way players can actually be part of the same mission dialog and make decisions in it is well done. I don't know if there were any dialog systems like this in any MMOs before or not, but I tend to think not.
The game has been almost entirely bug-free for me personally.
From what I saw there were a lot of butthurt WoW players playing TOR that were irked because their favorite feature wasn't in the game, yet. They assumed it was going to launch bug free. MMOs don't do that, and they never estimate the number of people coming in to play initially. They had long queues and not enough servers. They opened more and the queues have thus far, vanished. At least I've not seen any on my server.
It's more or less a contingent of whiny pre-teens and WoW Fan boys raging for one reason or another. It'll settle down. Brass tacks, BioWare made a great game, that will only get better with refinement. They didn't suffer the time constraints to push it live that Cryptic did with STO.
I did enterprise-scale ERP consulting (assessment, planning, configurations, implementations and upgrades) for several years of my professional career, and whether it's 'whiny pre-teens' or unrealistic corporate Vice Presidents, you always get complaints and gripes at launch. Shrug.
Performance level is NEVER guaranteed, whether you're talking about a game or a corporate treasury management package. If it runs, if you can log into it and if you can execute processes in it, then the job is done. If it doesn't run fast enough for you, then complain to your IT department. Or have mom n' dad buy you a faster PC.
The game was hyped through the roof. There was no way anything crafted by mortal hands could be as amazing as the game was hyped. Is it good? Yep, read the reviews. Is it everything we all dreamed and hoped? No, and people are ****y because of the sheer numbers of people trying to flood into the game. STO was never this popular. Honestly, TOR is a game to spend money on. Good thing STO is going F2P.
Everyone I know who is playing it has said for an MMO, it's a great 1 player game. I personally have issues with their encouraging the abuse of women, pretend or not.
Comments
I agree, the TOR forums is a warzone - STO forums is truly a very Federation type setting compared to all the trolling, flaming, and unknowns that are going on over there. I thought STO was bad, but this is heaven compare to the Hell thats being release on those forums.
The search function was disabled due to heavy server strain--they said they'd bring it back later.
However, the community is pretty jaded and rough with each other.
I think my suggestion for speeder racing was the last time something nice was said between people in a thread.
i learned my lesson from STO
first 30 - 60 days in an MMO means, you have ALL the 30-Day-Demo players to deal with that will HATE on the game.
you will have the worst Server performance of the lifecycle of the game.... because EVERYONE wants to play in that time. (do you remember beaming into space as human and onto ESD as your Ship? ...good old pathetic times)
AND not to mention, the longer you wait buying the game the cheaper the reatil box will get.
Why the hell would anyone spend 75 EURO on a Retail box for an MMO that wants money again from you in 30 days.
If i look at RIFT... which isn't that old either, 5 EURO on steam... same for STO... DCUO launched later thatn STO and is already F2P too.
I will either wait for the Box Price to drop to rock bottom or for it to go F2P (which no one will admit it will happen, but they ALL do at some point.)
Anyway, i am happy with STO as my grind MMO, if i want one thing from TOR it's the Story, i may want to play every single char for the Story, but i sure as hell will not give a sh*t about *unique color lightsaber limited time pre order collectors edition item XYZ* ...pffft.
I played the Open Beta for those 2 days... the game isn't the worst i played so far but it did nothing that would made me want to BUY NOW.
So...
Prediction Nr. 1 ...forums on fire and full with trolls. Check!
I'm interested in the game, but the high price combined with all the TRIBBLE I'm reading about it means I'm sitting on the fence. I will continue to keep tabs on it but probably won't consider purchasing for at least 3 months.
Probably a good idea if you're not willing to take the leap. Keep in mind the best opinion and most important opinion on the game or anything really is your own. I'd take everything you read with a grain of salt.
I wouldn't say "unrealistic" for a game with a 300 mil. budget, ~5 years in development, which costs the player a truck-load of money, then a monthly fee, for pretty much a single player experience.
The current TOR would have perfectly fit in KOTOR 3, but nooooooooo, we get a retail box + monthly fee, just because we get a KOTOR with a global chat?
I'm sorry if my expectations of a 2012 AAA mmorpg are too high.
Remeber that Rift was also quite hyped and played at launch. Right now...people seem to have understood that they've been paying for a wow clone (I hate this term so much, but that's life).
I believe that TOR will be getting a quick expansion and then (if unsuccessful) will become f2p or at least give up the out-of-place monthly fee.
I have actually started to see hope in STO's f2p future. And thank God for that. I would rather have a smaller company like Cryptic be successful, rather than the money-grubbing juggernaut EA we all know and hate...
I miss SW: Galaxies...:rolleyes:
From what I saw there were a lot of butthurt WoW players playing TOR that were irked because their favorite feature wasn't in the game, yet. They assumed it was going to launch bug free. MMOs don't do that, and they never estimate the number of people coming in to play initially. They had long queues and not enough servers. They opened more and the queues have thus far, vanished. At least I've not seen any on my server.
It's more or less a contingent of whiny pre-teens and WoW Fan boys raging for one reason or another. It'll settle down. Brass tacks, BioWare made a great game, that will only get better with refinement. They didn't suffer the time constraints to push it live that Cryptic did with STO.
Let's be honest, what were you expecting for ToR at release?
My list was:
Stable servers.
Relatively bug free experience.
Server queues.
Story focused and driven content.
For the most part I got everything on that list, as for game features. I'd wait a year before I start attacking the game for the lack of any significant feature, changes, content or bug fixes.
Like I said before, I was expecting a game worth the 300 mil budget and 5 years in development. A game worth the 60$ + 15$ monthly fee. And no, story alone does not make for a good mmo. Story is required, yes, but it is not the ONLY thing needed. Apparently, in 5 years of dev, this is the only original thing they could come up with. Take my money Bioware...I think not.
Again, TOR is KOTOR 3 basically, but with a monthly fee, because it has a global chat and players can some do missions together. I am sorry, but that is just bull$%#&.
TOR has no redeeming features, other than the dialogue mechanic, which is not an original feature to begin with (KOTOR, ME, Gothic, Risen etc).
For me, TOR = WoW + dialogue mechanic + Star Wars universe. Heck, they even went so far that instead of bats or gryphons, you use speedbikes to go from one place to another. It is just depressing to even think of this. It's like they were afraid to cross the line and deviate from the WoW recipe.
And in case people say I'm mistaking, I would also like some proof.
The problem, as many others have said, is that there is no point in paying monthly for this game, once you've finished all the careers.
Dungeons, instances, raids? Gimme a break...those are the most standard, cliche and overused things since the days of old Everquest.
When you ask someone who still plays the game why does he do it, the sole reply is "for the story".
Aha, so I guess you don't care that you're paying a monthly fee for a single player game? You don't care anything, other than the storyline?
So I guess that if WoW will get a dialogue mechanic implemented tomorrow (or Rift or Silkroad Online) you will instantly start paying and playing that game because of the storyline? Sure, sure, I believe you.
Since when do people have so low standards and expectations of a game like this?
I will tell you: because they are afraid to admit they've been ripped-off and are looking for anything that might stand-out in some way, shape or form.
Only time will make them admit that they were wrong.
When STO came out it cost about the same price and had the sub too, but cost considerably less. From an STO perspective, you are getting a more polished and deeper developed game than STO was at launch, for the same price.
It's an MMO, WoW didn't invent the genre, almost everything in WoW was taken from previous MMO's, WoW just put it together in a good way and polished it further, to me ToR has doing the same thing, taken proven mechanics from the MMO genre and polished them further. If it works, why fix it?
Eve Online has done a good job of breaking the MMO recipe, but there genuinly is only so much you can do. The developers had a target of making an MMO based on the KotOR games and in my opinion, they've done just that, but people seem annoyed that the game is like KotOR, but to be honest, that was what they wanted to do from the start, so I don't get why people are annoyed by that.
To be honest, this is an argument that has been around since MMO's began and with more games going F2P, its getting used even more so now. However, I still don't believe the F2P model is proven to be good for the genre yet, althoguh it is good at getting revenue, it does so by gouging the customer and although customers may fall for it now, time will tell how customer behavior adapts to it. For example, the grab bags in STO set a precedent for players spending alot of money on them, however, due to the way it was done, Cryptic have probably scared thier customers away from doing it again, so, whilst things like F2P may seem good now, time will tell, personally I prefer the subscription model since its way more cheaper for the customer and it doesn't fill the game with content I need to be rich to play!
It's far to early to say. There are still very few players at level 50 and as such many players have yet to engage in the group content. Yesterday I saw a guy complaining about lack of endgame content in ToR, he was lvl 5, his main was level 35, how the hell can he make claims about the endgame? ToR has endgame raids, it has heroic flashpoints (far more than STO has), it has world bosses, it has dailies, it has a whole bunch of stuff for people to do. Once guilds start forming properly, you will find more people will start playing it for the endgame content, right now though, most players are enjoying leveling thier charactors and enjoying thier storylines. For the record, I play it cause I think its a great game, I love the storyline 'and' I love interacting with other players.
To be honest, I feel far more ripped off by STO, I bought multiple copies of this game for pre.order bonuses and collectors edition perks which I believed were exclusive but were later put on the C-Store, i also bought an LTS in the assumption the game would stay subscription based, due to the fact I've taken breaks from the game, I actually didn't play teh game long enough (month for month) for my intial investment in the LTS to pay off, if I'd just suscribed for the months i've played, I'd of payed less than what I got my LTS for. So in all fairness, I certainly do not feel ripped off by TOR sonce I actually payed far less for it than I did for STO. If anything Cryptics greed in regards to how they marketed the CE's and LTS has set the precedent that many players, such as myself, will never buy a CE or LTS for a game ever again, thus they've actually damaged the MMO industry with the precident they set.
As to the TOR forums, yeah, they are MMO forums, they are ALL the same, more so during the first month or so when you have the players that have bought the game but don't like it (and have a month to let everyone know how much they don't like it before thier freetime runs out). The forums here were certainly not as rosey as some people seem to portray when the game launched. After going though some threads on the TOR forums, I've seen several that are just rants over high expectations, I've even seem some complaining about bugs that have already been fixed, hell, I've even seen threads from people complaining about features that they want in the game that already are in the game, they just don't realise. Give it a few months and the core community will begin to form, people will know how to play the game and all the players that dislike the game will move on to the next new MMO that doesn't fulfil thier desires (that been the holy grail MMO that has no MMO features in it).
It's more than that. Bioware/EA knew what made WoW a success. It didn't matter if the game was any good, they only cared about the number (hence why they were saying that the game will have 2 mil players from day 1 - that's all they cared about).
So they had two options: 1. come up with an original and less mainstreamed gameplay and hope for the best or 2. implement features found in the world's most popular mmo to date and play it safe.
They chose the second option, because they were targeting the numbers (aka WoW players) and made 90% of the game similar to it.
It is clear which is their target audience.
Yes, but it's a KOTOR with a monthly fee. And I've seen this argument many times: it doesn't have elaborate space combat and exploration because it is a KOTOR sequel.
Then let me ask one thing: did KOTOR have dungeons and instances which were not directly linked to the character's progression and were more like side-quests? No, in fact in KOTOR when the main story ends, the game ends. This is not the case with TOR, as they are trying to expand by using an already unoriginal, boring and overused dungeon system.
But that's it. Beyond those dungeons, there is little to justify a monthly fee, once you've finished the story part.
Not to mention that TOR is a lot (A LOT) more mainstreamed than KOTOR. So this is where the "it's a KOTOR sequel so leave it alone" excuse falls apart.
Nothing is perfect and nothing will ever be perfect. Cryptic made a good move, because they were anticipating at TOR's hype (not quality) would attract a ton of players. At the end of the day however, STO will gain more from SWTOR's partial failure.
The point is that Bioware/EA marketed this game like it was the second descent of God on Earth, the ultimate experience, the best of the best. And TOR really isn't like that at all. Apart from the dialogues, also found in other games I mentioned my previous post, there is nothing original, nothing groundbreaking. TOR has a deja-vu feeling to it, which could have been avoided in the 5 years this game was in development...
So the question comes: why pay for it? To finish the main storyline. Fine, I totally understand that. But what justifies paying for it beyond that point?
In my opinion, TOR was a gold mine. A chance to really change the way MMOs are, a new generation. Instead, we got a disappointing and unoriginal experience, which continues the themepark mmo trend which started with Blizzard's product.
And I continue to say that people have some damn low expectations for a game like TOR and expect so little in return for their money.
Again, please prove me wrong.
Remember, this is the year 2012 and so little progress was made in regards to TOR. "Polishing" older mechanics does not justify this game's existence.
xD
And the same people there now do the same.. an wil leave for (insert any upcoming MMO)...
Yes, I remember those early days when people on these forums complained about this and that, even the minutia, and then threatened to jump ship / ragequit because TOR was going to be the Second Coming of... MMOs (sure, let's go with that). And now they're probably over there, doing the same thing because the grass there isn't as green as they thought it would be, and threatening to jump ship to DUST415 or whatever new game or MMO will be coming out in the near future.
Good luck with that, constant malcontents, and good riddance
My biggest gripe with TOR? All that money spent making a game that frankly looks pretty good... and not one ounce of actual in-game footage in any of the TV spots. All the spots are all flash and no substance. In an age where games are looking better and better every day, and almost every TV spot for any console game is has a good share of in-game footage in the spot, it befuddles me. Not that I have time to get into another MMO.
I wouldn't be so sure, considering how many people here seem to linger despite being very clearly unhappy...
The ONLY good thing about the last 3 movies is i can blame it all on Jar Jar.
and i wonder of there is a Maturity level between here and there? i wonder if there is a maturity level diffrence between Star Trek fans and Star Wars Fans?
Jex you have been nailing it left and right the last few days. You go girl!
I'd like to say they copied WoW but they didn't. The class structure is more like an asian mmo with its branching class paths and rail based spaceflight, well need I say more?
Dude. You go dude.
But it's fine, I get that a lot. The avatar is understandably misleading. I keep considering changing it but damnit, I love me some elf...
EDIT: There. Now I can simultaneously display another facet of my nerd-dom AND utilize a gender-neutral avatar.
EDIT AGAIN: Matching signature. Click for fun!
But I think the game is good.
Is it KoTor 3? I think it's at least KoToR 3, 4 and maybe even 5. There is class-specific content for 8 classes, plus faction-specific content for 2 factions. Due to the shared content elements is is certainly not 16 games in one, but it's definitely more than one KoToR ever was.
And I think Bioware did the multiplayer content admirable. The way players can actually be part of the same mission dialog and make decisions in it is well done. I don't know if there were any dialog systems like this in any MMOs before or not, but I tend to think not.
The game has been almost entirely bug-free for me personally.
Probably about the same level of maturity as Transformers fans - which is about the same as the Star X fandoms.
I did enterprise-scale ERP consulting (assessment, planning, configurations, implementations and upgrades) for several years of my professional career, and whether it's 'whiny pre-teens' or unrealistic corporate Vice Presidents, you always get complaints and gripes at launch. Shrug.
Performance level is NEVER guaranteed, whether you're talking about a game or a corporate treasury management package. If it runs, if you can log into it and if you can execute processes in it, then the job is done. If it doesn't run fast enough for you, then complain to your IT department. Or have mom n' dad buy you a faster PC.
Everyone I know who is playing it has said for an MMO, it's a great 1 player game. I personally have issues with their encouraging the abuse of women, pretend or not.