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Character-Only Unlocks = Alt Hate

SystemSystem Member, NoReporting Posts: 178,019 Arc User
The original thread (http://forums.startrekonline.com/showthread.php?t=238898) went off topic and was locked, so I hope that we can get it addressed in the Tribble forum.

For tribbles and pets (and very likely in the future ships, costumes, and other items) to ONLY be available as character-only unlocks is essentially alt-hate. It actively discourages alt-characters by charging for each instance of an item on a per character basis, so when you get to VA and want to level up a new character you'll have to re-buy every item from the C-store.

The facts as I understand them are these:
  • The stated reason for making pets character-only unlocks is so that formerly unique items can be given to multiple BOs and as gifts.
  • There is no intention "at this time" to make ships character-only unlocks.
  • Items currently unlocked on an account-wide basis for a player will remain account-wide for that player.
  • There has been no stated intent to create an option for pets and tribbles purchased after F2P goes live available for account-wide unlock.
  • There has been no price adjustment on Tribble to reflect the reduced value of pets and tribbles resulting from the account-wide to character-only shift.

As a player I feel that I've been very patient with the content drought and the preparations to go F2P. I've not weighed in on the changes to crafting or the economy. I've even taken a "wait and see" approach to determine whether there would be sufficient value to maintain my gold status when my annual subscription comes due. I want for Cryptic to earn my money. I bought an annual sub instead of a LTS with the hope that I could pay it for the next 10 years in order to encourage Cryptic to continue to develop a world that I want to inhabit. I've purchased most C-store items with the same purpose.

As a consumer and a Star Trek fan this move has caused me to feel unvalued. Gifting items is a great idea, but if I have purchase the same item every time I start a new character in order to enjoy the same props, I won't create new characters. Without alts there is no motivation to keep playing STO. There simply has not been nor do I anticipate there will ever be enough content to sustain one character.
Post edited by Unknown User on
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Comments

  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited November 2011
    Well i agree with you 100% on all your post.... since beta testing tribble its very old player unfriendly with everything they are doing its more for the F2P players its like we never existed and we were the ones that helped get STO to here...Love how Cryptic treats its playerbase,.,.,.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited November 2011
    Agree 100%. I'm much more of a casual player, but I still pay my money hoping that Crytpic will continue to populate this world with content. Unfortunately, this feels too much like a F2P member grab, rather than giving the paying members who have built this community what they really want. Quite honestly, I'm disappointed and saddened and I'm certain that Crytpic will lose my subscription and my participation over this.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited November 2011
    I can see why you would be worried about the per character basis, I was as well till it was cleared up that it wouldn't effect ships. Assuming the prices on Tribble have not been adjusted and do not reflect possible changes when they go FTP, then I can see it as an all right thing.
    I say this basing my opinion on the way the Caitian/Aenar BOFF's work. 100 CP seems like a reasonable price for these BOFF, especially as when they fist came out I was able to sell a few of them for a couple of million EC's. This gave some of my poorer toons and opportunity to make some EC's they could use to buy other in game stuff, at the same time it gave other richer players an opportunity to buy stuff without having to pay real money.
    Secondly I have only used them on one or two toons, and not account wide. For example my Caitian now has several other Caitian\s serving on his bridge. This wouldn't have been possible if the unlock was done the old way where it was account wide but you were limited to one per toon.
    Finally I'm also thinking of the Horta, I purchased that buy have only used it on a couple of toons again as the other ones already had the crafted horta pet. I would have rather payed less considering this.
    Like I said I can see the concern but I think if they do it properly it won't be a problem. Some things like Tribble of Borg should be account wide and other less usefull items, or items that don't have an in game equivalent, could/should be person specific.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited November 2011
    P.E.Hunte, just because it does not currently effect ships is not to say that it won't in the future. IMHO, making items character-unlock only illustrates Cryptic's new modus operandi. If they felt that they could extend the policy to ships right now without triggering mass Trek nerd rage, I believe they would. This policy is a portent to the future.

    For the record, I'm happy to have character-only unlocks side-by-side with account-wide unlocks for a reduced fee. I wasn't pleased when the Aenar and Caitian BOs were released as character-only. They would've been an instant buy with a account-wide (and deservedly more expensive) option.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited November 2011
    BTW, I love my Hortas and I would love to provide one as a gift. If they would've been offered without an account-wide unlock option, they would've been euthanized at the animal shelter by now.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited November 2011
    I have to say I was a bit ticked off when I purchased the Tribble of Borg, discovering that it was a single-unlock item. Chances of me purchasing ANY single unlock item in the future is ZERO.

    Maybe the most die-hard, deep-pocketed player would buy C-Store items for each character, but I have to assume those individuals are few and far between.

    HOWEVER, people who may purchase everything in the C-Store, (Ships, Costumes, Pets, etc.) with the intent of using those items with multiple characters have to be VERY common. I am one of those people. I would love to have a collection of every C-Store item. But I won't do it for a single character.

    As the original poster said, there is NOT enough content on this game to sustain one single character. I just signed up this summer, and quickly maxed out my initial character. There needs to be more content around to keep us playing. Account-wide unlocks is some of that content.

    I think Cryptic's focus on creating more income with a F2P model means we'll see ships become single unlock at some point. That is just unacceptable. I would be happier playing as a subscriber with Cyptic earning my money with account-wide unlocks for everything than a F2P player paying for every darn thing under the sky for each and every character.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited November 2011
    I think it should be noted that the point of these is to create tradeable items for the in game economy. In Champs, there is a surprising amount of people who want to trade in things like devices, sidekicks, etc, things that only come directly from the Cstore. This lets them get some globals to outfit a character, retcon, whatever.

    So you should be able to get this for energy credits if someone wants to sell them. That said, the prices probably should actually drop, you know like they said they would.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited November 2011
    Foxrocks wrote:
    I think it should be noted that the point of these is to create tradeable items for the in game economy. In Champs, there is a surprising amount of people who want to trade in things like devices, sidekicks, etc, things that only come directly from the Cstore. This lets them get some globals to outfit a character, retcon, whatever.

    So you should be able to get this for energy credits if someone wants to sell them. That said, the prices probably should actually drop, you know like they said they would.

    I understand the purpose. I'm saying that I don't like it. I don't play Star Trek to play games with the economy, especially when it's tied to actual money. I play the game so that I can log into the Federation. Playing games with the economy or repurchasing items that I've already purchased for another character ruins that illusion. It doesn't matter what adjustment they make to prices if they don't retain an account-unlock option. All I'm asking for is the OPTION. I don't mind if other players prefer to play FERENGI COMMERCE AUTHORITY: THE GAME as long as I can play in the Federation.

    I'm more than a little demoralized that this issue isn't getting the attention it deserves. It's not like Cryptic is going to lose me to another MMO, they're just going to lose me.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited November 2011
    P.E.Hunte wrote:
    I can see why you would be worried about the per character basis, I was as well till it was cleared up that it wouldn't effect ships.

    No. There was no commitment to that. About the only way they could have made the assurance flimsier would have been to highlight the 'plans change' text in red and underline it.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited November 2011
    No. There was no commitment to that. About the only way they could have made the assurance flimsier would have been to highlight the 'plans change' text in red and underline it.

    Hmmm....

    SEE?!

    I think the ability to play in the Trek Universe and to interact with that universe is far more unique amongs fans of the series' than say...any other MMO. It is just damn cool to have a horta follow you around. But if you can't account-wide unlock it...then it just another hyper-capitalist scheme to feed on the dollars of nerds.

    Y'know...everyone was caught with thier pants down when WWII started. "Maybe they'll stop with Poland." What's the difference here..."They'll stop with just Tribbles....and pets...."

    They just made refit ships super frakkin' cool with all these universal consoles. Are you sure that's not just propaganda stepping stones to single-unlock ships?

    Where is a DEV comment on this issue?
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited November 2011
    I agree that all C Store purchases should be account-wide be default. However, I wouldn't be opposed to a cheaper single character only option. But it needs to be an option, not forced on us.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited November 2011
    its not gonna happen. account wide unlocks wont bring in the money that they want. per character unlocks will make you buy and rebuy the items you like so that you can have them on your alts. per character unlocks will eventually bring in the cash they are looking for. the more alts you make the more money they make. we know of a life were you paid your fee and got items for every toon you made, the new people that will come to the game dont know any better so a per character unlock will be groovy in there eyes. this game is not about makeing the curent player base happy its about makeing money off the new free to play players that dont have a clue. ships will eventually go to per character unlocks also watch and see.

    46 more day until TOR releases baby
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited November 2011
    They do that, I'll certainly drop my subscription AND never buy anything else from the C-Store.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited November 2011
    id be fairly content if they at least allow people to still mail them around even after they unlock. they do this on champions, so if you buy it for one character you can still send it to another of gift/sell it it to someone after you are bored of it.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited November 2011
    I believe account-wide items will get more attention then per character. I personally will not buy a per character item off of the C-Store. It would be a waste of money if I decide to delete a character for whatever reason.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited November 2011
    Toddula wrote:
    Where is a DEV comment on this issue?

    No kidding. This thread is the continuation of a 67 page thread that was shut down by the devs before the original issue was adequately addressed. The irony is that they seemed to address about every tangential issue that was raised and then shut down the thread for being off topic.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited November 2011
    For the record, I'm happy to have character-only unlocks side-by-side with account-wide unlocks for a reduced fee. I wasn't pleased when the Aenar and Caitian BOs were released as character-only. They would've been an instant buy with a account-wide (and deservedly more expensive) option.

    Which is why to this day I still dont have any Aenar or Caitian BOs... Im not paying for something that is tied to one character for the simple fact that a build I may like today isnt ruined by changes Cryptic makes (SKILL TREE CHANGE IM TALKING TO YOU). So if its tied to a character and I delete it...that money is gone forever.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited November 2011
    Wow...I guess this issue reallky doesn't bother people? I suppose its a good distraction to tweak the player base with massive changes like TRIBBLE with the economy and nerfing things up...that way, this little single-unlock issue can get by un-noticed.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited November 2011
    So this is how freedom dies...with thunderous silence.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited November 2011
    Toddula wrote:
    Wow...I guess this issue reallky doesn't bother people? I suppose its a good distraction to tweak the player base with massive changes like TRIBBLE with the economy and nerfing things up...that way, this little single-unlock issue can get by un-noticed.

    There's also fatigue to consider. Even I can't work up the effort to oppose most of this TRIBBLE because I'm just too tired of doing it.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited November 2011
    There's also fatigue to consider. Even I can't work up the effort to oppose most of this TRIBBLE because I'm just too tired of doing it.

    This is what the Conjectural Communist Chinese Gentlemen Overlords(tm) are hoping:

    Spam the player base with enough negative changes and after a while their rage will be spent and they'll be too apathetic to object.

    Sort of like when the prisoners at San Quentin run a train on the new guy what drops the soap in the showers-- he might have reservations with regards to having his backside introduced to the concept of non-consensual sodomy, but by the time the fifth or six convict comes along, he'll be already traumatized enough not to raise any more objections.

    While we might not start following Cryptic around with our hand in their back pocket and occasionally get traded to another Asian grindfest mmo for a carton of cigarettes or toilet bowl hootch, they're hoping for enough silence to interpret it as consent.

    Again, this is all just conjecture.

    I may be totally off.

    Carry on.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited November 2011
    Cwmathias wrote: »
    its not gonna happen. account wide unlocks wont bring in the money that they want. per character unlocks will make you buy and rebuy the items you like so that you can have them on your alts. per character unlocks will eventually bring in the cash they are looking for. the more alts you make the more money they make. we know of a life were you paid your fee and got items for every toon you made, the new people that will come to the game dont know any better so a per character unlock will be groovy in there eyes. this game is not about makeing the curent player base happy its about makeing money off the new free to play players that dont have a clue. ships will eventually go to per character unlocks also watch and see.

    46 more day until TOR releases baby

    What else do you expect from Profit World?
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited November 2011
    There's also fatigue to consider. Even I can't work up the effort to oppose most of this TRIBBLE because I'm just too tired of doing it.

    I believe that I've seen your posts in a few other threads. Thanks for showing up and being counted for. I'm generally not inclined to post on the forums. I think that I had a total of 3 posts since pre-launch until this issue came up. I'm disappointed by the apathy. I think Cryptic under appreciates how this will negatively effect the true Trekkers who play the game.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited November 2011
    I have to say I'm not particularly happy with this either. For those players who enjoy (and paid for) a number of character slots, this seems like a heavy penalization, and a way to make you pay more for paying more. The purchasing of extra Boff slots and such on a per character basis are bad enough as it is.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited November 2011
    This seems counter productive to encouraging people to buy from the C-store. Why should I buy stuff that costs the same but is usable for only one character? So they want us to buy additional slots and roll alts then buy everything again for said alts?

    Yeah No Thanks, keep your alts Cryptic Im not buying everything 2+ times. Maybe in Communist China people accept this stuff and dont complain but this is the Land of the Free, something Perfect world doesn't understand.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited November 2011
    There's also fatigue to consider. Even I can't work up the effort to oppose most of this TRIBBLE because I'm just too tired of doing it.

    Yeah....but will that fatigue translate to enough frustration for you to cancel your subscription in protest?
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited November 2011
    This seems counter productive to encouraging people to buy from the C-store. Why should I buy stuff that costs the same but is usable for only one character? So they want us to buy additional slots and roll alts then buy everything again for said alts?

    Yeah No Thanks, keep your alts Cryptic Im not buying everything 2+ times. Maybe in Communist China people accept this stuff and dont complain but this is the Land of the Free, something Perfect world doesn't understand.


    I think if they started STO with the premise of having character only unlocks, it wouldn't have gotten as much hate. While I dislike character unlocks, I hardly have time to work on numerous alts so... it doesn't affect me that much.

    Besides, if I am right. Character unlocks means two things:

    1) You can buy that item to gift to another person
    2) You can sell it on the exchange (giving another person an "in-game" method for acquiring it .

    As long as character unlocks mean the price of the item reflects the decreased value from account wide unlock, i'm fine with it.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited November 2011
    (FINISHES READING THREAD>
    Check, Plz.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited November 2011
    Wow... another thread on this issue?

    The last one was shut down for a reason. Not to mention the current acting head of cryptic confirmed in a dev blog the only thing that they were making character unlock instead of account wide is the tribbles. There were other dev comments on the tracker a while back because of the other now closed thread.

    Even the new vet rewards are either account wide one use like a respec or ship slot or they say for each character (aka account wide).

    Will be fun to see what happens in this thread.

    EDIT

    I should say I have not checked the forums lately so something may have been said that I missed :) if so I apologize.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited November 2011
    joebobkill wrote: »
    I think if they started STO with the premise of having character only unlocks, it wouldn't have gotten as much hate. While I dislike character unlocks, I hardly have time to work on numerous alts so... it doesn't affect me that much.

    Besides, if I am right. Character unlocks means two things:

    1) You can buy that item to gift to another person
    2) You can sell it on the exchange (giving another person an "in-game" method for acquiring it .

    As long as character unlocks mean the price of the item reflects the decreased value from account wide unlock, i'm fine with it.

    I agree with this :) but not his signature :D
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