Cryptic if your going to make the retrofit abilty's consoles do not make them non interchangeble. IF I HAVE A CONSOLE FOR CLOAK I SHOULD BE ABLE TO USE IT ON MORE THAN JUST THE TYPE SHIPS THEY CAME ON! THIS GOES FOR ALL THE RETROFIT CONSOLES, ONLY THREE OF THE RETROFIT CONSOLES I HAVE ARE EVEN SOMEWHAT INTERCHANGEBLE. IF THEIR NOT GOING TO BE USEABLE ON DIFFERNT SHIPS BESIDES THE ONES THEY CAME WITH DO NOT MAKE THEM CONSOLES also theirs no console for the dreadnoughts spatial lance and etc.
Cryptic if your going to make the retrofit abilty's consoles do not make them non interchangeble. IF I HAVE A CONSOLE FOR CLOAK I SHOULD BE ABLE TO USE IT ON MORE THAN JUST THE TYPE SHIPS THEY CAME ON! THIS GOES FOR ALL THE RETROFIT CONSOLES, ONLY THREE OF THE RETROFIT CONSOLES I HAVE ARE EVEN SOMEWHAT INTERCHANGEBLE. IF THEIR NOT GOING TO BE USEABLE ON DIFFERNT SHIPS BESIDES THE ONES THEY CAME WITH DO NOT MAKE THEM CONSOLES also theirs no console for the dreadnoughts spatial lance and etc.
Ignoring the abuse of the caps lock key for a minute, if you had any idea how much work would be required to enable the use of the cloak console on any ship you wouldn't even ask for it.
However I tend to agree that there is too much unnecessary limitation on the consoles. There is no reason an Escort shouldn't be able to use Antimatter Spread and no reason a cruiser should be able to use the turbo boost console from the Gladius.
Limiting these special consoles to only one type of ship is fail.
And we come back around to a point I and others have made, there is no NEED for special abilities on ships. Get rid of the gimmicks and get back to the basics.
Ignoring the abuse of the caps lock key for a minute, if you had any idea how much work would be required to enable the use of the cloak console on any ship you wouldn't even ask for it.
However I tend to agree that there is too much unnecessary limitation on the consoles. There is no reason an Escort shouldn't be able to use Antimatter Spread and no reason a cruiser should be able to use the turbo boost console from the Gladius.
Limiting these special consoles to only one type of ship is fail.
I'd love to have an ablative armor console on my Nebula. I would even accept a system CD with the photonic displacement console.
And we come back around to a point I and others have made, there is no NEED for special abilities on ships. Get rid of the gimmicks and get back to the basics.
With out the consoles, people would have less reason or desire to buy these lower tier +1 ships. Cryptic has to get people to spend money somehow.
You gain a console slot to put that console in. That creates choice. You can use that power console and effectively nothing has changed, or you can not use that console and gain a console slot for something else. While all of the consoles shouldn't be entirely interchangeable there are probably a few that could be fine on every ship (or at least more than they fit now. For balance though I'm fine with leaving them restricted.
However I tend to agree that there is too much unnecessary limitation on the consoles. There is no reason an Escort shouldn't be able to use Antimatter Spread and no reason a cruiser should be able to use the turbo boost console from the Gladius.
Limiting these special consoles to only one type of ship is fail.
This I agree with. Most consoles should be usable on any other ship.
You gain a console slot to put that console in. That creates choice. You can use that power console and effectively nothing has changed, or you can not use that console and gain a console slot for something else. While all of the consoles shouldn't be entirely interchangeable there are probably a few that could be fine on every ship (or at least more than they fit now. For balance though I'm fine with leaving them restricted.
You mean IF you get a free slot. The Patrol Cruiser on KDF side had it's power turned into a hangar item, so no free slot, and you can't even have fighters anymore, or you have a stock ship without the special item. Which I really don't get, if the marauder boarding party is a hangar item then a) no none flight-deck or carrier should be able to use boarding party power or b) they should give an extra hangar slot.
And we come back around to a point I and others have made, there is no NEED for special abilities on ships. Get rid of the gimmicks and get back to the basics.
Agreed. I'd prefer to go without power consoles. We have Bridge officer and Captain powers, if you want to add powers, why not in this framework?
You mean IF you get a free slot. The Patrol Cruiser on KDF side had it's power turned into a hangar item, so no free slot, and you can't even have fighters anymore, or you have a stock ship without the special item. Which I really don't get, if the marauder boarding party is a hangar item then a) no none flight-deck or carrier should be able to use boarding party power or b) they should give an extra hangar slot.
The hanger item seems to be a slot, though. Whether you're really suposed to be limited to only one type of hangar craft is another question. I think not. But giving you a unique item that other ships can't slot - I think that is okay.
While I do agree that "some" consoles could be interchangeable, its not a one size fits all line. A Dreadnought has the spinal lance weapon - because the weapon is A. huge and B. requires special power requirements etc.. A Battleship sized ship can handle it, a cruiser unlikely, and an escort ugh, NO!
Look at it from a "real life" view point:
The Iowa class BB's had very sophisticated targeting computers, but these computers were mechanical not electronic as todays generations think of computers. 'They were not replaced by modern computers as - as of the last times they were used - no modern computers could surpass them! (I imagine that some folks are chocking on their tea/coffee about now).
But those mechanical computers as wonderful as they were for plotting 16" naval guns, would not work in a modern day version of the PT boat or an air-cushioned craft. Nor would they be of any use for cruise missiles! They were Taylor made for large Battleships.
So we have to be open minded enough to think that not every console is a "plug-in kit" that can be plopped into any starship. And as another poster pointed out, the Dev's have to have some way to make certain ships desirable to warrant a C-Store purchase.
This is where I disagree......the consoles shouldnt exist in the first place......each ship should have that special ability for that ship only and it shouldnt be a console.
The idea is that the specific power makes the ship unique and thats why its flown.....this console stuff is a mess in itself for the very reasons listed here.....
I guess some sense of trying to maintain a balance was a factorr in the thought process.
If the Cloak (Devs forbid) ever goes console then I expect the BoP to get its Hull/Shield handicap removed and its corresponding point adjusted some.
edit: or they make console creation and specialty use a uber-Krafting concept and allow the player to make bind on pickup special designation consoles.
I guess some sense of trying to maintain a balance was a factorr in the thought process.
If the Cloak (Devs forbid) ever goes console then I expect the BoP to get its Hull/Shield handicap removed and its corresponding point adjusted some.
edit: or they make console creation and specialty use a uber-Krafting concept and allow the player to make bind on pickup special designation consoles.
It would be very silly for them to turn a KDF cloak into a console considering the very design of the KDF ships require it anyway.....again see my previous post in regards to this as this is a prime example of why it should not be a console fest.......its just leaning away from trek in nature.
I've said it before and i'll say it again. The new consoles should have been Devices instead.
Cruiser gets the most options because it has the most powerful warp core / most available power.
Escort gets the least because its a trimmed down flying gun anyway.
Science falls in as the middle child.
I've said it before and i'll say it again. The new consoles should have been Devices instead.
Cruiser gets the most options because it has the most powerful warp core / most available power.
Escort gets the least because its a trimmed down flying gun anyway.
Science falls in as the middle child.
would at least be a good compromise....and something I just thought of......what are going to eventually be the counters to these many wonderful if not fluffy consoles?
Or do they plan to let it ride being a more of a nuisance in PvP?
And we come back around to a point I and others have made, there is no NEED for special abilities on ships. Get rid of the gimmicks and get back to the basics.
+1 to this. Seriously this is ridiculous. Running a full 3 trays of magic tricks just isn't Trek. And honestly some of this stuff should not even be a Bridge Officer Power.
However, with p2w ships in full, unabashed prominence on the C-Store this is looking less and less likely by the day.
I've said it before and i'll say it again. The new consoles should have been Devices instead.
Cruiser gets the most options because it has the most powerful warp core / most available power.
Escort gets the least because its a trimmed down flying gun anyway.
Science falls in as the middle child.
Devices or Technologies would be a fine term and maybe a Power to wieght ratio system could work but keep in mind that different races use different powergenerating technology and some would not work crossways completely (might be a good balancing factor) and then some vessels are designed different in that for example the Defiant is a gun wrapped around a engine/power supply so to speak.
Maybe if technologies had a compatibility factor, even then though to keep fun gameplay certain technologies or devices could still be restricted.
PvP is a non-issue for Cryptic I think right now and I'm still of the belief that giving up a good Purple MK? console for a gimmick has its on downsides.
You gain a console slot to put that console in. That creates choice. You can use that power console and effectively nothing has changed, or you can not use that console and gain a console slot for something else. While all of the consoles shouldn't be entirely interchangeable there are probably a few that could be fine on every ship (or at least more than they fit now. For balance though I'm fine with leaving them restricted.
Exactly. There are some people with whom don't use cloak on Defiant or Dreadnought. Now, they have an extra console slot.
I dont think thats exactly true, when i copied my character too tribble f2p test, that had a retrofit defiant, dreadnought, and retrofit intrepid. The game automaticly overridden consoles I had installed on those ships and replaced them with the ship ability consoles and did not give me an extra slot. I HAD THREE OF THE SAME CONSOLES AND AFTER I PORTED TOO TRIBBLE I ONLY HAD TWO AND THAT SHIP SPECIAL CONSOLE!
the consul that came with the thunderchild is pure POINTLESS to have since the preorder item does the exactly same thing without a cool down, the only down side it's limited range. the consuls are carbon copy of some of the tricks people LEARNED to do or from something else.
the consul that came with the thunderchild is pure POINTLESS to have since the preorder item does the exactly same thing without a cool down, the only down side it's limited range. the consuls are carbon copy of some of the tricks people LEARNED to do or from something else.
lol i know what item your talking about, That item wasnt even a preorder item, you can still get the automatic defense turret with the digital deluxe version http://store.steampowered.com/app/901222/
Fully agreed, consoles that do not require graphical support (ablative armor, saucer separation, multi-vector) should be available to all ships without restrictions. Failing that, they should be available to all ships of the same tier or higher from the ship purchased for the ability.
Severe restrictions on where/how to use consoles is frustrating and defeats the entire point of making them movable consoles.
Fully agreed, consoles that do not require graphical support (ablative armor, saucer separation, multi-vector) should be available to all ships without restrictions. Failing that, they should be available to all ships of the same tier or higher from the ship purchased for the ability.
Severe restrictions on where/how to use consoles is frustrating and defeats the entire point of making them movable consoles.
You anti cryptic or something?It looks like it from your avatar? Why do you not like them?
I dont think thats exactly true, when i copied my character too tribble f2p test, that had a retrofit defiant, dreadnought, and retrofit intrepid. The game automaticly overridden consoles I had installed on those ships and replaced them with the ship ability consoles and did not give me an extra slot. I HAD THREE OF THE SAME CONSOLES AND AFTER I PORTED TOO TRIBBLE I ONLY HAD TWO AND THAT SHIP SPECIAL CONSOLE!
KingShip; if things happened as you said when you transferred your toon to tribble, then that would be a bug, and you need to report it. The Def-R gained an eng console slot, as did the Intrepid-R, and the Gal-R gained a sci console slot.
The retrofit consoles are great for one reason, if you don't use the power, you can equip something else in the extra slot.
This is the only reason the Retrofit abilities were made into consoles. Some people simply don't use those abilities (Ablative Armor sucks unless you are a torpedo boat) and so now they will have the option to replace them with something they will use.
Making these consoles usable on any ship would require a whole lot more development time because they would have to recreate the animations and abilities for every possible ship they could be used on. Remember the bugs with the Aegis gear when it was first released? Imagine that but with abilities that simply do not work. The forums would burn in a wildfire of angry posts.
Umm, call me crazy, but...Isn't the amount of work required to do this zero? It's just another ability that lots of other ships already have.
Not that I think this is a good idea......:D
You might think so, but as an animator myself I know that it's a lot more complicated than that.
The Defiant and Galaxy X were probably the only Fed ship frames that the Cloak animation was created for. To make it work for any ship they would have to recreate that animation for every single ship. And they can't leave out the little guys either. I guarantee people would want to use this with the NX and TOS Connie too.
For Klingon ships the Cloak is probably baked into the designs. For Fed ships it is not because game companies don't have animators work on animation they don't plan on using.
Same goes for the Ablative Armor and Saucer Separation. If they wanted to make all of these useable by any ship they would need to recreate the animation and functionality for every ship. That alone could take a year or more of work. Want to go without new content for the next year or more? I don't think so.
Comments
Ignoring the abuse of the caps lock key for a minute, if you had any idea how much work would be required to enable the use of the cloak console on any ship you wouldn't even ask for it.
However I tend to agree that there is too much unnecessary limitation on the consoles. There is no reason an Escort shouldn't be able to use Antimatter Spread and no reason a cruiser should be able to use the turbo boost console from the Gladius.
Limiting these special consoles to only one type of ship is fail.
And its only good for all the abilities to become consoles since we need more options to customize our ships if we want.
I do agree however that some consoles should just be able to be mount on any ship.
I'd love to have an ablative armor console on my Nebula. I would even accept a system CD with the photonic displacement console.
With out the consoles, people would have less reason or desire to buy these lower tier +1 ships. Cryptic has to get people to spend money somehow.
Pvp matches would be very strange if everyone had cloaking tech though both sides would end up with anti cloaking consoles.
I agree. Some ships become better because of this fact.
but why does it mater if you use the power if the power doesnt take up a console slot like it use too?
This I agree with. Most consoles should be usable on any other ship.
You mean IF you get a free slot. The Patrol Cruiser on KDF side had it's power turned into a hangar item, so no free slot, and you can't even have fighters anymore, or you have a stock ship without the special item. Which I really don't get, if the marauder boarding party is a hangar item then a) no none flight-deck or carrier should be able to use boarding party power or b) they should give an extra hangar slot.
Agreed. I'd prefer to go without power consoles. We have Bridge officer and Captain powers, if you want to add powers, why not in this framework?
Oh, sorry, I forgot. C-Store.
The hanger item seems to be a slot, though. Whether you're really suposed to be limited to only one type of hangar craft is another question. I think not. But giving you a unique item that other ships can't slot - I think that is okay.
Look at it from a "real life" view point:
The Iowa class BB's had very sophisticated targeting computers, but these computers were mechanical not electronic as todays generations think of computers. 'They were not replaced by modern computers as - as of the last times they were used - no modern computers could surpass them! (I imagine that some folks are chocking on their tea/coffee about now).
But those mechanical computers as wonderful as they were for plotting 16" naval guns, would not work in a modern day version of the PT boat or an air-cushioned craft. Nor would they be of any use for cruise missiles! They were Taylor made for large Battleships.
So we have to be open minded enough to think that not every console is a "plug-in kit" that can be plopped into any starship. And as another poster pointed out, the Dev's have to have some way to make certain ships desirable to warrant a C-Store purchase.
The idea is that the specific power makes the ship unique and thats why its flown.....this console stuff is a mess in itself for the very reasons listed here.....
If the Cloak (Devs forbid) ever goes console then I expect the BoP to get its Hull/Shield handicap removed and its corresponding point adjusted some.
edit: or they make console creation and specialty use a uber-Krafting concept and allow the player to make bind on pickup special designation consoles.
It would be very silly for them to turn a KDF cloak into a console considering the very design of the KDF ships require it anyway.....again see my previous post in regards to this as this is a prime example of why it should not be a console fest.......its just leaning away from trek in nature.
Cruiser gets the most options because it has the most powerful warp core / most available power.
Escort gets the least because its a trimmed down flying gun anyway.
Science falls in as the middle child.
would at least be a good compromise....and something I just thought of......what are going to eventually be the counters to these many wonderful if not fluffy consoles?
Or do they plan to let it ride being a more of a nuisance in PvP?
+1 to this. Seriously this is ridiculous. Running a full 3 trays of magic tricks just isn't Trek. And honestly some of this stuff should not even be a Bridge Officer Power.
However, with p2w ships in full, unabashed prominence on the C-Store this is looking less and less likely by the day.
Devices or Technologies would be a fine term and maybe a Power to wieght ratio system could work but keep in mind that different races use different powergenerating technology and some would not work crossways completely (might be a good balancing factor) and then some vessels are designed different in that for example the Defiant is a gun wrapped around a engine/power supply so to speak.
Maybe if technologies had a compatibility factor, even then though to keep fun gameplay certain technologies or devices could still be restricted.
PvP is a non-issue for Cryptic I think right now and I'm still of the belief that giving up a good Purple MK? console for a gimmick has its on downsides.
Exactly. There are some people with whom don't use cloak on Defiant or Dreadnought. Now, they have an extra console slot.
I dont think thats exactly true, when i copied my character too tribble f2p test, that had a retrofit defiant, dreadnought, and retrofit intrepid. The game automaticly overridden consoles I had installed on those ships and replaced them with the ship ability consoles and did not give me an extra slot. I HAD THREE OF THE SAME CONSOLES AND AFTER I PORTED TOO TRIBBLE I ONLY HAD TWO AND THAT SHIP SPECIAL CONSOLE!
lol i know what item your talking about, That item wasnt even a preorder item, you can still get the automatic defense turret with the digital deluxe version
http://store.steampowered.com/app/901222/
Severe restrictions on where/how to use consoles is frustrating and defeats the entire point of making them movable consoles.
You anti cryptic or something?It looks like it from your avatar? Why do you not like them?
Umm, call me crazy, but...Isn't the amount of work required to do this zero? It's just another ability that lots of other ships already have.
Not that I think this is a good idea......:D
This is the only reason the Retrofit abilities were made into consoles. Some people simply don't use those abilities (Ablative Armor sucks unless you are a torpedo boat) and so now they will have the option to replace them with something they will use.
Making these consoles usable on any ship would require a whole lot more development time because they would have to recreate the animations and abilities for every possible ship they could be used on. Remember the bugs with the Aegis gear when it was first released? Imagine that but with abilities that simply do not work. The forums would burn in a wildfire of angry posts.
:cool:
See http://forums.startrekonline.com/showthread.php?t=237483
Some of those reason still apply, some don't (like the Excelsior which they finally backed off on and restored to normal)
You might think so, but as an animator myself I know that it's a lot more complicated than that.
The Defiant and Galaxy X were probably the only Fed ship frames that the Cloak animation was created for. To make it work for any ship they would have to recreate that animation for every single ship. And they can't leave out the little guys either. I guarantee people would want to use this with the NX and TOS Connie too.
For Klingon ships the Cloak is probably baked into the designs. For Fed ships it is not because game companies don't have animators work on animation they don't plan on using.
Same goes for the Ablative Armor and Saucer Separation. If they wanted to make all of these useable by any ship they would need to recreate the animation and functionality for every ship. That alone could take a year or more of work. Want to go without new content for the next year or more? I don't think so.
:cool: