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SystemSystem Member, NoReporting Posts: 178,019 Arc User
I am, and also see, plenty of people complaining about this or that on Tribble yet, we are still doing the very things we dislike. I came to the realization a while ago that Cryptic is collecting data on the very things we are against. But we are all STILL doing them feeding them data saying, "well we don't like it but we will do it." I am approaching my play on Tribble exactly how I would play live and then using that as the guide as to whether or not I would continue to pay to play STO. So far, the verdict is not looking good. My point is, if I complain or am against something here is how I back it up what I say on the forums with my actions in game. If more people stop doing something and they see that in the data...then perhaps something will be done. But I think right now all they see is the complaining and people still doing these things so of course they are not going to be as apt to change it, the data does not support it!!

  • Exploration - when it started on Tribble I was pleased to see that it was still on half hour timers and we got a level appropriate reward instead of the exploration currency. As I began leveling, I did ALOT of exploration and was enjoying myself. When they made it a daily, took out the level appropriate reward, nerfed Aid missions, and tagged only dilithium to it, I STOPPED DOING them, thus cut off the data feed from my end to send them a message. When they returned some exploration to half hour timers but still did not make it rewarding for endgame, I STILL DID not do it. Only ones I did were to help grind DXP.
  • Crafting - before the Dilithium surcharge I took the time to craft my gear as I leveled up. Since the dilithium surcharge I DO NOT CRAFT or COLLECT ANOMALIES or TAKE PART IN THE MULTIPHASIC EVENT on Tribble. Thus backing up my vocal dislike about what has been done to the crafting system by cutting off the data stream from those three aspects of gameplay.
  • Forced Mission Progression - I took the time to go through each mission, so I could help them with bugs but as it became apparent the arcs were not opening up based on level and we had to go through all of them. In addition, without the rewards scaling to my level I disliked having to be forced to go through these fighting higher level MOBs for lower quality rewards. Given those two issues I stopped doing the story arcs and ceased their data from me on them for the Cardassian arc and beyond. This again, to back up my dislike for the forced mission progression.
  • Defend Sectors - Well nothing has changed with these and I also stopped doing them once I hit VA because there is no reason for me to include them in my end game activities. It would not take much for these to be made more end game friendly and repeatable. Oh, how about the standard level appropriate item for the completion of three and add in a daily of which one you would like to choose for dilithium? There are many things that can be done with these that are simple, but the choice has been made to do nothing so I will provide no data on them.
  • Patrol Missions - Although it is nice these open up basically level based still. Nothing has been done with them to make them better. Simple things could be done like scale the rewards to your level, make them repeatable by offering a level appropriate item upon completions, and offer a daily as well for dilithium. Because none of these things have even been mentioned, they will not be in my end game repitoire and thus, not data on those missions.
  • Academy Event - I played this a few times, it is not bad, highly repettive and it was fun to figure out how the puzzle worked. Sadly, this is probably the best source of dilithium out there but it is not one I would like to play all the time. Just the concept of Star Fleet Academy becoming a battlefield is not very appealing. The model would work great for the Klingon Academy but does not fit for Starfleet. Again, don't like it as much, it needs some work so no data on usage from me.
  • U.S.S. Dilithium Grinder - lol, that is what I feel my ship should be named, only you have pretty much taken away most enjoyable ways to me at getting it. There is really nothing to buy with it, and the stuff you have for sale with it is not really worth it and vets already have it. Like I have said before, you needed at least two new classes of rareity for items and added that to what you had instead of taking away.

So what is left you say??? Well...the current build on Tribble now has reduced my gameplay to JUST the DOFF system. Congratulations you have narrowed my gameplay to just one system. You will get plenty of data, ideas, bug reports, etc... on the Doff system only. Now, is the Doff system alone worth me subbing anymore?? Probably not, but we will see what Cryptic changes.
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  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited October 2011
    I am, and also see, plenty of people complaining about this or that on Tribble yet, we are still doing the very things we dislike. I came to the realization a while ago that Cryptic is collecting data on the very things we are against. But we are all STILL doing them feeding them data saying, "well we don't like it but we will do it." I am approaching my play on Tribble exactly how I would play live and then using that as the guide as to whether or not I would continue to pay to play STO. So far, the verdict is not looking good. My point is, if I complain or am against something here is how I back it up what I say on the forums with my actions in game. If more people stop doing something and they see that in the data...then perhaps something will be done. But I think right now all they see is the complaining and people still doing these things so of course they are not going to be as apt to change it, the data does not support it!!

    • Exploration - when it started on Tribble I was pleased to see that it was still on half hour timers and we got a level appropriate reward instead of the exploration currency. As I began leveling, I did ALOT of exploration and was enjoying myself. When they made it a daily, took out the level appropriate reward, nerfed Aid missions, and tagged only dilithium to it, I STOPPED DOING them, thus cut off the data feed from my end to send them a message. When they returned some exploration to half hour timers but still did not make it rewarding for endgame, I STILL DID not do it. Only ones I did were to help grind DXP.
    • Crafting - before the Dilithium surcharge I took the time to craft my gear as I leveled up. Since the dilithium surcharge I DO NOT CRAFT or COLLECT ANOMALIES or TAKE PART IN THE MULTIPHASIC EVENT on Tribble. Thus backing up my vocal dislike about what has been done to the crafting system by cutting off the data stream from those three aspects of gameplay.
    • Forced Mission Progression - I took the time to go through each mission, so I could help them with bugs but as it became apparent the arcs were not opening up based on level and we had to go through all of them. In addition, without the rewards scaling to my level I disliked having to be forced to go through these fighting higher level MOBs for lower quality rewards. Given those two issues I stopped doing the story arcs and ceased their data from me on them for the Cardassian arc and beyond. This again, to back up my dislike for the forced mission progression.
    • Defend Sectors - Well nothing has changed with these and I also stopped doing them once I hit VA because there is no reason for me to include them in my end game activities. It would not take much for these to be made more end game friendly and repeatable. Oh, how about the standard level appropriate item for the completion of three and add in a daily of which one you would like to choose for dilithium? There are many things that can be done with these that are simple, but the choice has been made to do nothing so I will provide no data on them.
    • Patrol Missions - Although it is nice these open up basically level based still. Nothing has been done with them to make them better. Simple things could be done like scale the rewards to your level, make them repeatable by offering a level appropriate item upon completions, and offer a daily as well for dilithium. Because none of these things have even been mentioned, they will not be in my end game repitoire and thus, not data on those missions.
    • Academy Event - I played this a few times, it is not bad, highly repettive and it was fun to figure out how the puzzle worked. Sadly, this is probably the best source of dilithium out there but it is not one I would like to play all the time. Just the concept of Star Fleet Academy becoming a battlefield is not very appealing. The model would work great for the Klingon Academy but does not fit for Starfleet. Again, don't like it as much, it needs some work so no data on usage from me.
    • U.S.S. Dilithium Grinder - lol, that is what I feel my ship should be named, only you have pretty much taken away most enjoyable ways to me at getting it. There is really nothing to buy with it, and the stuff you have for sale with it is not really worth it and vets already have it. Like I have said before, you needed at least two new classes of rareity for items and added that to what you had instead of taking away.

    So what is left you say??? Well...the current build on Tribble now has reduced my gameplay to JUST the DOFF system. Congratulations you have narrowed my gameplay to just one system. You will get plenty of data, ideas, bug reports, etc... on the Doff system only. Now, is the Doff system alone worth me subbing anymore?? Probably not, but we will see what Cryptic changes.

    I did the same thing. It's pointless to test anything else (well, except the STF's on normal) because the rest has been horribly implemented and become NO FUN!!!

    If this was all made fun, then it wouldn't *feel* like a grind, and we'd all be playing as much as we could. Instead, it's all repetitive, forced, locked down, and changed into a monstrosu shell of its former self. On top of that, All of the missions had their rewards reduced, and their accessibility locked down so you have to grind them all in order. The stories no longer give Merits, and Dilithium has not replaced it. The STF's went from 1100 dil to 480 dilithium as a reward. Explore missions went from 75 badges per round to 1440 per day.

    I'd like to know what Cryptic's definition of fun is, because this ain't fun to most people (my opinion and shared by my friends).
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited October 2011
    I guess it depends on the person as:

    - I no longer craft on ANY Tribble character
    - I don't do the "Explore the Universe" or "Star Fleet Academy" event.
    - Haven't sppent a C-Point stipend.

    Why? The above is stuff I don't like (and I refuse to re-buy any C-Store stuff my Holodeck characters own.)

    Thus, I guess it depends on the tester.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited October 2011
    I saw that when I returned. The rebuying thing, I mean. I tried to claim my Connie, and it wasn't abailable, along with averything I purchased/was awarded/Q gave me (i was lucky enough to score emotes and the fluidic tribble from the fountain). This is why I don't do Tribble or Redshirt. Nothing is global and Cryptic thinks everyone should pay twice as much for things they have already.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited October 2011
    I really hope forced mission progression is just a Tribble thing to make sure we check all of the missions for bugs, of which there are many. If this goes to Holodeck... fail.

    I moved my crafter to Tribble, because the gear is otherwise horrible. I have a feeling that my newer holodeck officers will be relying on the blue phasers, and it is likely going to be tough if/when I make a new tactical officer in an escort. The huge problem with crafting is grinding to finally get usable gear. I probably wouldn't mind paying "some" dilithium to be able to make low level gear.... when I am low level. As it stands now, I can't make Lieutenant level gear until I am at Commander. Crafting becomes useful around Captain level. That needs to change!

    I do the explorers for dilithium, but Star Fleet Academy is a pain for me. It is not what I consider play, rather a chore.

    The DOFF system is interesting, but it is not really fun either. It's a way to gain experience and dilithium WITHOUT ACTUALLY PLAYING. That people like something that advances officers for not playing should tell you where things stand.

    I complained earlier that Tribble is no fun. It does get better, but it is no thrill ride. If STO is going to be a success, it needs to be fun at the lowest levels..... and it definitely is NOT. The higher levels are not as bad, but what is on Tribble is not nearly has good as Holodeck now. With this configuration, Perfect World may save a dollar in order to lose thousands of dollars.

    We want fun. You want money. It's simple. Give us fun, and we will gladly pay.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited October 2011
    Only thing I do now on Tribble is the DOFF System, which is the most fun thing to do atm...
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited October 2011
    Until you test it, you don't know if you like it, or if it is bugged. If you don't test it, you can't give the feedback they need. That said, testing isn't for everyone.

    I've been mostly testing the DOff system. I have no idea if Heretic is looking at numbers generated by the game or not (okay, I do know, based on some of the changes he's made, and his explanations for them). I DO know that he is listening to the feedback given him in the forums, and making some of his adjustments base on that feedback.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited October 2011
    I tested everything and now the only thing I'm doing in STO is DOFF missions and the Tour the Galaxy Race. Everything else, I'm burnt out in doing. :(


    Be great if there was more new content.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited October 2011
    Exploration- I only do the Diplomatic missions for the XP

    Crafting – I only craft with my first toon on tribble that is a fed and only the items that do not have the Dilithium TAX. I do not craft with my Klingon alt for the simple reason that he would have to craft a pile of trash item that he could not use and no one else needs before I could make a singe item he could use and by that time He would have to be TAXED and he has no money because he started at Commander.

    Forced Mission Progression – I will not play the game that way.

    Defend Sectors – I don’t like them so I don’t play them.

    Patrol Missions – I play these only on my Federation Toon.

    Academy Event – some times.

    My Vice Admiral transfer toon – I copied him to tribble to find out what the convention rate from badges to dilithium would be and only play the duty officer game with him.

    Tribble C-points – I have used to get DOFF packs for all 3 toons and the Thunderchild.

    Duty Officer game – I play this on all 3 toons and I like it a lot but if tribble went to Holo Deck with all the above I am not sure how long this game would hold my attention.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited October 2011
    CrustyMac wrote: »
    Until you test it, you don't know if you like it, or if it is bugged. If you don't test it, you can't give the feedback they need. That said, testing isn't for everyone.

    I've been mostly testing the DOff system. I have no idea if Heretic is looking at numbers generated by the game or not (okay, I do know, based on some of the changes he's made, and his explanations for them). I DO know that he is listening to the feedback given him in the forums, and making some of his adjustments base on that feedback.

    It's pointless to provide feedback on the disaterous economy changes... Cryptic has pretty much proven that they won't change it very much, if at all.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited October 2011
    CrustyMac wrote: »
    Until you test it, you don't know if you like it, or if it is bugged. If you don't test it, you can't give the feedback they need. That said, testing isn't for everyone.

    I've been mostly testing the DOff system. I have no idea if Heretic is looking at numbers generated by the game or not (okay, I do know, based on some of the changes he's made, and his explanations for them). I DO know that he is listening to the feedback given him in the forums, and making some of his adjustments base on that feedback.

    Nope, I agree testing is not for everyone. Thing is though...I have tested, provided my feedback, and was on tribble pretty much for the first four weeks or so. With all the changes I dislike mounting up, I am done testing things until there is another iteration fixing them. Once it things are fixed in a direction I feel I like or can live with, I will be happy to give my time to test some more however it is becoming clear it is an issue of if or will things be fixed. A good example, the Doff system is working well, I will continue to test that whereas crafting and misson progression is not working well at all so I am done testing that unless it changes.

    I am just providing the logic I am now carrying on for the tribble beta testing with the stack of issues I currently have. Thus I have a final assessment of mission progression, exploration, dilithium, academy event, and crafting, I don't like them - done. Why would I keep testing something I do not like or could not support? What I want people to realize is that to continue testing something you do not like means you are supporting it on some level. Nevertheless, to continue to test the content/systems we think are not or will not work is only acknowledging the content/systems are in state good enough for testing (which they are not).

    Thus, not testing a particular system after a big change has been made we feel is wrong (Crafting) is the ultimate in testing feedback. They will have numbers that say, before we implemented the dilithium tax crafting on Tribble was XX, after the changes with the addition of the dilitium tax the level of crafting dropped XX%. That is what I am getting at.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited October 2011
    My character is VA now so I will stop doing the missions, and I will not be able to use him to test the STFs. I've done the missions two to three times,I won't do them again.

    I mostly use the DOFF system. Exploration and the Daily Events all seem meh so far. I should probably try the Mirrior Invasion, but it's never on when I play, it seems.

    I still gather anomalies, but I haven't crafted anything since the Dilithiu mcost came in. I barely got Dilithium so far, and I don't care to do what Cryptic expects us to do for Dilithium.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited October 2011
    My character is VA now so I will stop doing the missions, and I will not be able to use him to test the STFs. I've done the missions two to three times,I won't do them again.

    I mostly use the DOFF system. Exploration and the Daily Events all seem meh so far. I should probably try the Mirrior Invasion, but it's never on when I play, it seems.

    I still gather anomalies, but I haven't crafted anything since the Dilithiu mcost came in. I barely got Dilithium so far, and I don't care to do what Cryptic expects us to do for Dilithium.

    This. I have no interest in levelling my lowbie on Tribble except by Doff. There's no fun in doing anything else, no way to get a sufficient amount unless I'm on 24/7 to buy good gear, and no point in doing the story missions because they don't offer any dilithium on top on the goodies that are 10 levels underneath me.

    My VA I transfered already has all but the Borg set, so I have nothing to spend dilithium on.

    Something's backwards about not having nealry enough at low levels, and having too much at the cap. All while *not* having any fun.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited October 2011
    <Sean Connery voice >

    " Now Kes'plin'ney, We play that most Cryptic of Games... and Wait(tm)."

    < play Imperial anthem - pan deeply red lighted scence of interior of BoP >
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited October 2011
    Since the DOff system seems to be about the only reason to play (imho and it seems to be the opinion in this thread), do you think they slowed down Skill XP rewards and leveling via the DOff system to force us through other content that relies more on the C-Store to complete? Maybe it was too easy to level to VA and ignore Dilithium.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited October 2011
    The OP has a valid point. If testers gripe about things but then willingly do them, Cryptic is not as likely to change/fix it. They'll cite the 'silent majority', and while it's true that the majority of players aren't on the forums, I'd say it's more than likely that if testers are on the forums complaining about something, there's a good chance that the silent majority wouldn't/doesn't like the changes either and just hasn't said anything. Silence doesn't necessarily equal approval.

    That said, if you're reading this and you've been on Tribble but haven't said anything on the forums about what you like and what you don't like, you really should. The more feedback the devs get from players, the better the chance this game will have once this stuff hits Holodeck.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited October 2011
    DOFF system is also the only thing I do on Tribble at the moment (and it seems the only system where the Devs respond to issues).

    The main negative points from my point of view on Tribble are the delithium in the crafting system and the lack of rewards for Exploration cluster missions (next to the fact that they desperatly need to be improved).

    I did not even transfer my main character over and continue to play with the newly created ones, as there seems little point in testing this crafting system.

    Good idea with the ship name ... greeings from USS Daily Delithium
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited October 2011
    if ur not klink ur pretty boned since feds have a ton of missions and will be va by the time you get to the breen mission if unlucky. klinks only prob in tribble right now is not enough xp for the next missions later on in the progression. besides that it is faster the way the klinks are set up but they need to allow people to skip missions incase any of the mission are bugged out.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited October 2011
    what id like to know is why is almost everything now being made to be paid with Dilithium. its not fun to run a new character and find out the venders who used to get star fleet merits/ec now only wants Dilithium.
    bos and ship equipment should still be star fleet/ ec.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited October 2011
    I am a DOFF only tester too. I brought a Fed and a Kling from Start to VA.

    As for now I can say:

    Crafting is dead: You can do the PvE Missions with white gear. No reason to spend dilithium with or wthout crafting.

    Exploration is dead: You only get properly payed once per day. Why do more exploration missions a Day?

    Grinding dilithium is dead before it is born: For the real cool stuff you need borg salvage parts. Why farm dilithium (where you can only refine 8000 a day) if you can farm borg salvage parts?

    I only do DOFF Missions, because that is the only interesting part rigth now.
    I am a fleetcrafter, I started farming and crafting Agaeis Sets, becaus they will become verry rare after F2P goes live with that craftingsystem.

    When I see some changes in the release notes, I will test again. Until that time, I test the DOFF and farm for Holodeck.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited November 2011
    I'm even getting bored of the DOFF system. I mean it's just as repetitive as the missions, except even less interactive. All you do is just assign a couple doffs to the slots in the mission, press start, and forget what you did for the next 30m-2d while it completes in the background.

    Do any of you read the missions you send your doffs on? Actually look at the results instead of just spam the "collect reward" button? Actually try completing missions of a "theme" rather than just selecting any and all available missions to do?

    Do you carefully sort through your crew roster to try to match the best crew with the right jobs/traits or just pick randomly from the 3 that your departmental "advisor" gives you, only making a change when you pick someone with a red trait?

    The DOFF system was a nice breath of fresh air, but it too is quickly becoming stale.

    I have stopped playing forced missions in STO. I never did any exploration or patrols since I knew from the start they would be boring.

    I have not spent any of the 2nd "stipend" Cryptic gave me on the c-store.

    I do the mirror events for the XP but with 1 char at VA and another just about to hit, I will stop those shortly

    I don't even bother to report bugs anymore. I tried doing that once and the bug submission failed due to some timeout error. And now I come across so many bugs (particularly with not getting credit for finishing a mission and having to play part or all of it over again), it is just not worth the effort for me to report each one I see, especially when I am not confident the bug system will even accept the report I create. The mission content, after having been live for almost 2 years, they should have all the mission bugs identified and worked out by now. I don't work for Cryptic, and it's not my problem.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited November 2011
    Stormnnorm wrote:
    I'm even getting bored of the DOFF system. I mean it's just as repetitive as the missions, except even less interactive. All you do is just assign a couple doffs to the slots in the mission, press start, and forget what you did for the next 30m-2d while it completes in the background.

    Do any of you read the missions you send your doffs on? Actually look at the results instead of just spam the "collect reward" button? Actually try completing missions of a "theme" rather than just selecting any and all available missions to do?

    Do you carefully sort through your crew roster to try to match the best crew with the right jobs/traits or just pick randomly from the 3 that your departmental "advisor" gives you, only making a change when you pick someone with a red trait?

    The DOFF system was a nice breath of fresh air, but it too is quickly becoming stale.

    I have stopped playing forced missions in STO. I never did any exploration or patrols since I knew from the start they would be boring.

    I have not spent any of the 2nd "stipend" Cryptic gave me on the c-store.

    I do the mirror events for the XP but with 1 char at VA and another just about to hit, I will stop those shortly

    I don't even bother to report bugs anymore. I tried doing that once and the bug submission failed due to some timeout error. And now I come across so many bugs (particularly with not getting credit for finishing a mission and having to play part or all of it over again), it is just not worth the effort for me to report each one I see, especially when I am not confident the bug system will even accept the report I create. The mission content, after having been live for almost 2 years, they should have all the mission bugs identified and worked out by now. I don't work for Cryptic, and it's not my problem.

    Well, to be honest, while the DOFF system is the only thing to play it is slowly becoming old... with everything else being meh, its not worth to play just for the DOFF system despite how freaking awesome it is.

    The best analogy I have is that the Cryptic form of STO is a thornbush with a single beautiful flower in the middle, but that flower will be choked away by the thorns.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited November 2011
    Just in response to the OP, I get more enjoyment from bantering on the forums than I do from anything the actual game has to offer.
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