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Re-write ranks, now you're at it.

SystemSystem Member, NoReporting Posts: 178,019 Arc User
Ok... It just hit me, and alot will probably not agree with me, but here it goes:

Right now you're remaking the Skills, the Economy and the STF's... Since alot of new players will come with the F2P opening, now is your chance to fix somthing that alot of people have been pointing out as irretating:

Player rank.

As it is now, you hit End Game, and you're a Vice Admiral. Admirals are usually paper-warriors, who make big decisions that affect the entire federation... without them ever leaving the office.

No... the people who made the diffrence during the Dominion wars, were Senior Lt. Cmdr's, Commanders and Captains... Thoose are the ones in the field, and thoose are the one doing all the work.

I purpose that you open up the files containing ranks names, and re-name all the ranks, so that endgame is captain (or even Commander to allow for futher level cap).
Put in thoose middle ranks, like Lt. Junior Grade to fill out the spots, and let us be the captain.

Alternatively you could add expirience to the captan grades for later levels (for example RALH1 could become "Captain (Inexpirienced)") and so on.

It's a silly idea, but if done properly, it should really just be a text fix, wich you can let one of the new guys do... Like that guy from that odd show...
Post edited by Unknown User on
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Comments

  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited October 2011
    id be quite happy if rear admiral became captain 11 and vice admiral captain 21

    but i bet anything if they did that people would complain that they want their admiral ranks back.

    i think at least it would be a good option to set it so you can either stay a captain or accept the promotion.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited October 2011
    I do support this as well as the addtion of a "TX - " at the top corner where it now says "Captain X". This way you would clearly know what Tier you are in.

    Please add Lieutenant JG and rescale so that VA is actually the first RA rank and the old Admiral ranks are captain. Leave the Admiral ranks for new endgame game play features and styles that have not been designed/released yet.

    The kind of missions that we perform and the crews that we have are best explained by the Captain rank. Already there is virtually no difference in mission scope or responsibility between Ensign and VA. Even the enemies (Borg) are effectively the same. Kill 5 things, save the day. There is not enough difference to justify the Admiral rank.

    I would like to see new game play elements such as Starbases, Space BOffs (ship pets in some space missions), Starship DOffs (starships used for larger, more significant DOff like assignments), and other more Admiral like experiences.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited October 2011
    Please put this Canon rank in the game. STO toke a lot of short cuts when they made the game on launch. Using modern Naval ranks was one of them. Commanders in canon has never been removed. This Star Trek not the real world.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited October 2011
    You could go as far up as Commodore if you absolutely have to. In the Original Series, you still had some commodores that commanded starships, but yes, I think it would be great if you had Captain as the end game level. You could keep ensign as the beginning level for a bit longer. An officer is an officer. If it's an issue of promoting bridge officers, drop their first rank down to a Non-commissioned officer rank and just say story wise they put in for a commission later.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited October 2011
    Keru wrote:
    You could go as far up as Commodore if you absolutely have to. In the Original Series, you still had some commodores that commanded starships, but yes, I think it would be great if you had Captain as the end game level. You could keep ensign as the beginning level for a bit longer. An officer is an officer. If it's an issue of promoting bridge officers, drop their first rank down to a Non-commissioned officer rank and just say story wise they put in for a commission later.

    By the time of TNG the Commodore rank had been decomissioned in favor of one star Rear Admiral (Aka RALH), but your point is well made.

    But the Captain Lv X, seems reasonable. Hey... I can even live with being Admiral Lower Half at rank 80 or so, but 50 is just too early IMO.

    I honestly belive that if there ever was / ever will be a time that works perfectly to Cryptics advantage, to make the ranks proper, now it's here.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited October 2011
    i really like the fact the game doesnt say level anywhere, and id like to keep it that way, with rank names as they are....EXCEPT rear admiral upper half and lower half...its just TRIBBLE. should go Admiral, Rear Admiral, Vice Admiral....that is all
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited October 2011
    old topic, new *sign* from my side...

    Although I'd still prefer to make the ranks completly optional
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited October 2011
    I agree, just as I stated in the last thread on this topic. Admiral coat and title at max level, for those that WANT it, but don't change the RANK from Captain.

    As was said in the last thread, the only Admiral that actually commanded a ship was Kirk, and he felt it was a headache and was GLAD to be demoted to Captain once again.

    Sisko was a commander for over a year, MOST officers spend a couple years as a Commander, even have ships as a Commander rank for years.

    Idea:

    Ensign through the tutorial as it is now.
    Lieutenant JG where Lt. Commander is now.
    Lt. Commander to where Commander is now.

    Commander to replace Captain levels, plus an additional 5 in there, up till currentl RA5 for a spread of 15 levels as a commander. Keep or change the ship tiers, I don't care, but we're mostly looking for a text change for the ranking system to make it fit Star Trek cannon.

    Captain picks up at RA6. We only get 5 levels as a Captain for now, but as the level cap is increased, we STAY a Captain, for at least 20 levels.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited October 2011
    Carm wrote:
    I agree, just as I stated in the last thread on this topic. Admiral coat and title at max level, for those that WANT it, but don't change the RANK from Captain.

    As was said in the last thread, the only Admiral that actually commanded a ship was Kirk, and he felt it was a headache and was GLAD to be demoted to Captain once again.

    Sisko was a commander for over a year, MOST officers spend a couple years as a Commander, even have ships as a Commander rank for years.

    Idea:

    Ensign through the tutorial as it is now.
    Lieutenant JG where Lt. Commander is now.
    Lt. Commander to where Commander is now.

    Commander to replace Captain levels, plus an additional 5 in there, up till currentl RA5 for a spread of 15 levels as a commander. Keep or change the ship tiers, I don't care, but we're mostly looking for a text change for the ranking system to make it fit Star Trek cannon.

    Captain picks up at RA6. We only get 5 levels as a Captain for now, but as the level cap is increased, we STAY a Captain, for at least 20 levels.

    I like the structure of this. Though to be honest there is no reason for titles to be pinned to ranks. "You hit level 20 you may be refered to as commander. Or not, whatever."
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited October 2011
    The current rank names are absolutely TRIBBLE. A bunch of admirals flying around makes no sense. Yes, I agree, now would be a good time to fix at least this particular stupid mistake.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited October 2011
    I agree with the OP. It's just plain stupid having all these admirals floating around. (Nothing personal against you max-levellers, it's just a stupid game mechanic in my, and clearly others' opinions).
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited October 2011
    I have a max level character on Holodeck too. The only reason I mentioned the Admiral title was for the people that will complain that they're taking the adrmial rank away from them, despite the fact that it makes sense to get rid of it.

    Fix Canon!
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited October 2011
    I would have to agree, I find being addressed as Rear Admiral Lower Half damn creepy. Who addresses an Admiral as lower half? Perhaps if they do keep the high ranks the NPCs could just call you the more casual Admiral?
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited October 2011
    /signed.

    I've hated the idea of having Admiral as a rank in the game from the beginning. If this is at all possible, it really should be done. Captain should be the endgame, and allow Admiral to be a title for fleet officers or those who meet a certain achievement that want to work for it.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited October 2011
    What is this, like, the fifth thread on this topic? Geez.

    Decouple the ranks from levels and/or make the titles/pips determine what rank you're "called" (ie, by NPCs) in-game--leaving VA as an option--and otherwise everything's the same? Sure, maybe.

    Flat-out changing the ranks, yanking the Admiral title right out from under those of us who like it? No. No, no, no.

    If something this pervasive is to be changed, it has to be cosmetic and optional, the change practically unnoticeable to those of us who don't want to be demoted. Otherwise, don't touch it. :/

    Frankly I wish my main VA could wear full Admiral pips and dump the "vice" bit altogether...
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited October 2011
    I agree with the change to include Lt. JG rank before Lieutenant. In addition, I think the Admiral ranks should be limited to Gold subs, and the actual rank you are referred to should be selectable, just like title currently is. What's more, if you're a Rear Admiral Lower Half or Rear Admiral Upper Half, NPCs would refer to you only as Rear Admiral. It looks ridiculous when an NPC refers to you as "Rear Admiral Upper Half So and So".
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited October 2011
    id be quite happy if rear admiral became captain 11 and vice admiral captain 21

    but i bet anything if they did that people would complain that they want their admiral ranks back.

    i think at least it would be a good option to set it so you can either stay a captain or accept the promotion.

    Well, if people want the Vice Admiral rank or whatever, can't they just use the VA title? That's basically the way it is now, except in reverse.

    Basically, the ratio of Captains to Vice Admirals would dramatically switch and I would be VERY happy to see this happen.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited October 2011
    So... Stateing that this is the X number thread on this topic is both true and false.

    I am more than aware (as indicated in OP), that the matter has been discussed before, but I havn't found any that takes my approach:

    I am talking about treating the F2P launch, almost like the re-launch of the game. As if it had been locked down and re-designed.

    I mean... what better time to do it, than before you open up for potentially thousands of new players who havn't played the game before, and do not know all the "screwups" made so far.

    Readjusting the ranks at this time is the perfect time, and it would not take anything away from current players.

    In terms of roleplayers I can see how we still need to retain the admiral rank-pips, as well as the titles, but the change will be purely cosmetical, but changeing the system from reading rank based on your level, to title, is be more challengeing than what I suggest, but in the long run, it seems to be a somewhat viable solution. Alternatively they could simply add a new "what rank do you want to be called", but here and now, not so much IMO.

    It seems somewhat obvious to me that the representative part of the players, here at least, agree with the suggestion, and there are some fine ideas on how to implement this.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited October 2011
    The last 2 characters I leveled up made captain late on a Saturday night. By the end of Sunday they were Admirals. Given that most commanders of ships with be Captains and probably spend most of their carears as such, does it make any sense that in STO you will probably be a Captain for less than 24 hours?

    I really wish they had made Admiral an optional career path instead of the norm. You should have been given the option to remain a Captain and then get new skills that boost just your own ship, or else become an admiral and have skills that boost a team instead.

    Admirals coulld then have been given access to command versions of the tier 5 ships, ones with one of the Boff consoles replaced with a staff officer console. They could then have been given access to staff officers who also had team boost skills as well, intead of the normal Boff single ship skills.

    I don't think any one would mind having Admirals flying about if they made sense and had Admiral like abilities based on commanding a group of ships, especially if those who wanted to remain Captains could do so and improve their single ship perfomance instead. Also something like this would add some diversity to character progression choices and improve the playing experience of alt characters.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited October 2011
    Cryptic, Please listen to this thread. rewrite player ranks
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited October 2011
    Rewrite ranks on both sides.
    We've seen Klingons Sergeants, Colonels and Generals, we've seen a ship where the captain had a lieutenant as his second in command so please redo the Klingons with an army rank structure instead of the naval model.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited October 2011
    the problem with having 10 levels of ENS, 10 levels of LT jg and then 10 levels of LT is that your BOFFs will be out ranking you, unless they change their ranks and levels they have skills. maybe for boffs you could have crewman, ENS, LT jg, and LT. they could also reorganize the boff powers to include LTC and COM on top of it, so theirs 6 ranks instead of 4

    crewman- 1 tier 1 power

    ensign- 1 tier 2 power

    lieutenant jg- 1 tier 1 power, 1 tier 2 power

    lieutenant- 1 tier 2 power, 1 tier 3 power

    lieutenant com- 1 tier 1 power, 1 tier 2 power, 1 tier 3 power

    commander- 1 tier 2 power, 1 tier 3 power, 1 tier 4 power

    the station setup possibility are endless
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited October 2011
    Why not make us Ensign till we are out of tutorial, then we are promoted to Captain.

    I mean, i don't remember seeing ships in Star Trek under teh command of anyone lower than that. Sure, sometimes the XO was in charge but it was because the Captain was away.

    I woldn't mind being Captain 51.

    If people don't like the name, do it in stars or bars beside the name. We can still level up as we do now, where we get skills and access to the next tier of ships at the same levels, but we don't rank up.

    I guess some people could be confused by it, but really it's not that difficult to do.

    I agree that seeing a sector of space filled with Admirals is strange and seems wrong.

    Out of the turorial:
    Captain

    Then every new "rank" would still be Captain, but with a new designaion.

    ** Captain 1 would be 21
    *** Captain 3 would be 33
    Etc.

    Make the stars gold, and when you get the new one it's silver until you spend the needed skillpoints to "rank" up.

    Something like that.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited October 2011
    I would like to see this done, but I fear it's too late for that. Though if they can add more grind and accept that players don't like it, it can't be so hard to accept the fewer players that want to keep their Vice Admiral title.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited October 2011
    If they are planning to raise the current level cap more than once they are going to need to need to rethink the ranks anyway. How many ranks can you find after Admiral? How many Presidents can STO have flying around the galaxy in starships?

    Unless we are already that close to the final level cap for STO isn't this the time sort out the ranks and plan for the future?
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited October 2011
    ajb13 wrote: »
    If they are planning to raise the current level cap more than once they are going to need to need to rethink the ranks anyway. How many ranks can you find after Admiral? How many Presidents can STO have flying around the galaxy in starships?

    Unless we are already that close to the final level cap for STO isn't this the time sort out the ranks and plan for the future?

    ^An awesome observation that, while fully true, most of us had'n thought about.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited October 2011
    if you don't get promoted anymore after Captain no need anymore for a VA ship token...

    Some solutions are so simple...
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited October 2011
    if you don't get promoted anymore after Captain no need anymore for a VA ship token...

    Some solutions are so simple...

    The ships would stll change with level.
    So they wolud not be called VA token but Lvl51 tokens for example.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited October 2011
    mister_dee wrote:
    The ships would stll change with level.
    So they wolud not be called VA token but Lvl51 tokens for example.

    But if there is no special distinction between the levels except a boring number no one will expect a new ship at that point... unless the veterans spoil how it used to be of course. ;)
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited October 2011
    While having LT through CMDR ranks is canon, the ranks really worked better in the shows/films than they do in this game. Let's face it, you're essentially made captain at the end of the tutorial. Granted, there have been instances where lower ranking people have been given temporary commands. This is clearly not the case in this game. You're permanently tasked to commanding starships after the tutorial. We should just make it official and give PCs battlefield promotions to the rank of Captain (which will make JJ Abrams very happy).

    The nice part about this is that it wouldn't displace the ranks of your BOFFs. They are still Ensigns-Cmdrs. The only difference is that when you're Captain 1 (formerly LT), you're only allowed by SFC to have ensign BOFFs.

    I think a rank system with Captain x-x will work fine. where the first x is your tier and the second is your grade. For example, Captain 1-5 is LT5. It seems to make things simpler and they can raise the cap all they want with more captain tiers.

    I don't personally mind having RA's commanding ships in STO. If we're accepting of LTs doing so, we should be equally accomodating to experienced officers as it were. I really don't mind if we cap at RA (JUST RA, none of that upper lower half madness).
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