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When the players were worried about F2P Hurting Star Trek Online we were told that nothing would change for subscribers so please don't spread "Doom & Gloom"
When we were worried about Dan Stahl leaving we were told that there will be no change in the way Star Trek Online will be operated so please don't spread "Doom & Gloom"
Since both of the above statement are false can we spread "Doom & Gloom" now?
Since what you have done in the last few weeks means that you were lying to us when the fist rumors of STO going F2P and you told us nothing will change.
I would like to believe you when you post answers to hard questions or questions about the changes or non-changes to STO, but by recent history I can't do that anymore.
Almost everyone is against any changes to STO for all subscribers, yet each build you surprise us with another change. Then you say you are "Just seeing how it is received, remember it is a test area" but the changes are not totally revoked.
This is what I think you guys are doing: You are putting these wholesale changes on to Tribble so when you give that tiny little piece back to the game you can try and sneak some other things in. You are taking a great risk with this game and you are treating the players that have stuck behind you for the last year & 9 months very very badly... and the worst part is that you don't see this as a problem.
You are killing this game......
and you wonder why it is all Doom & Gloom, because you have a forum that is saying that if things stay the same they are quitting and you say nothing. This will not go away ...
I'm begging you to put STO back the way is was for the subscribers that have stood by you. If you want to charge for those things, charge the Silver Players, not the Gold!
When we were worried about Dan Stahl leaving we were told that there will be no change in the way Star Trek Online will be operated so please don't spread "Doom & Gloom"
Since both of the above statement are false can we spread "Doom & Gloom" now?
Since what you have done in the last few weeks means that you were lying to us when the fist rumors of STO going F2P and you told us nothing will change.
I would like to believe you when you post answers to hard questions or questions about the changes or non-changes to STO, but by recent history I can't do that anymore.
Almost everyone is against any changes to STO for all subscribers, yet each build you surprise us with another change. Then you say you are "Just seeing how it is received, remember it is a test area" but the changes are not totally revoked.
This is what I think you guys are doing: You are putting these wholesale changes on to Tribble so when you give that tiny little piece back to the game you can try and sneak some other things in. You are taking a great risk with this game and you are treating the players that have stuck behind you for the last year & 9 months very very badly... and the worst part is that you don't see this as a problem.
You are killing this game......
and you wonder why it is all Doom & Gloom, because you have a forum that is saying that if things stay the same they are quitting and you say nothing. This will not go away ...
I'm begging you to put STO back the way is was for the subscribers that have stood by you. If you want to charge for those things, charge the Silver Players, not the Gold!
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None of this should come as a surprise. Cryptic has time and again told the player base one thing, and done another. Now i know i am gonna be told its not true, or its not fair, but it is. All anyone has to do, even the Cryptic diehard fans,is take a objective look at just about everything Cryptic has told the player base since Beta, and compare it to what actually has happened.
Examples would be"KDF" update with first 90 day patch, was suppose to finish out the story for Klingons. How about"Romulans" are on the way as a playable faction. My favorite is the many "PVP will be fixed in X patch". Anyone see a trend?
I have been hoping that Cryptic would finally give STO the just treatment it deserves with F2P release. If Tribble is any indication, they are on a Multi Year journey to get there.
Or the Whole no content Droughtonly to stop any and all content until AFTER F2P launches.... or for that matter that the game was even going to F2P, even after the leak.... Or how they weren't going to make it pay to win but now they're taking away the ability to earn ships in game, ships you used to get free for hitting a certain rank, and making them C-store purchses?
Its frustrating, to be a fan of something only to have the people who made it constantly lie to the fans as well as change it in ways that show it's just about the money.
And here i thought George Lucas made the Star wars franchise, not Star Trek Online.....
No wonder Stahl Jumped ship, i'd leave too if all my hard work for the Fans of the game was being spit on.
Just stop the lies Cryptic..... just stop the lies....
I don't see anything that has been changed exclusively for subscribers in a game-breaking way. All changes are changes of the game mechanics themselves, which do and should happen in any MMO. Read your terms of use.
Have the changes we asked for been implemented perfectly? Of course not. They have made some pretty big mistakes. Trying to get gold players to grind for ships each promotion was definitely a huge mistake, and they (mostly) fixed that. You do have to keep in mind that we're talking about a test server with a new EP, so yeah, there's going to be some teeth cutting going on. Who knows? Once the dust settles and this releases to Holodeck, you might actually like it. Or, you might hate it. The point is that it's not done yet. It might be prudent to save the doom and gloom until it's actually about to go to Holodeck. If it gets to that point, it's still awful, and they want to push it to live despite the players screaming not to, then you'd have every right to complain. We're not there yet, though. We've got weeks, maybe more than a month I'd wager before this is ready to go live.
BUT.. and this is a BIG BUT.. we are not even HALF way through the F2P beta and theres is still a lot of changes yet to be made, and a few things may be out right dropped as a bad idea. The Crafting changes have proven to be very unpopular and may need to change.. Several good suggestions have been made through all the vitrol. opefully one or two of them will be implemented.
PLEASE be aware that one of the things they do in this sort of playtest/beta is to throw an exaggerrated version out in front of the "playtest" audience (ie: us!) just to see what everyones reaction will be.
We still have a long way to go yet. the KDF faction must be GTG before F2P launch. The STF missions need to be balanced with the understanding that at this point most of us are indeed expert players, or at the evry minimum very experienced players and what we find simply "hard" or " difficult" may have F2P new to the game players yanking thier hair out and talking to themselves loudly in public and leaving thier freinds and family to wonder if they should call the guys in the white coats.
I am enjoying myself during this play test, and when we get to the end of it I will post an evaluation of what will still need to be worked on, what needs to be dropped, and what could possibly be added to enhance game play. In the mean time I post bug reports in game when I find something that not apparently working right and remeber that Fixit patch come out on Tuesdays if its a game stopper, with additional features patches on Thusday, or friday if its not ready yet.
While I am definatly NOT one of cryptic biggest fans and have been very harshly critical of them in the past (and will be again in the future). I will give credit where credit is due. They're throwing a lot of stuff at us with more to come and the only way to find out if it works.. really works, in game is for us to get our grubby little honds on it and beat on it untill it breaks.. or doesn't break.
The current ecnomic model needs a lot more tweaking before its ready for prime time and once it goes live they need to stand ready to tweak it some more. No matter how much we do with it here on Tribble the real acid test is when it goes live. Honestly, I dont think F2P is going to really be ready before January no matter what Cryptic wants to aim for.. The Goal maybe early December but if STO 2.0 F2P is not ready by then, then its not ready.
And if its not ready I will certainly say so LOUDLY. I may not like everything in the final build before F2P launch, but whats more important is
"Are the game killer bugs squashed"
,"Have the new system integrated well and are they internally consistant and exploit free?"
"Is there sufficient Content for the KDF faction to be on par with the federation play experience"
(on par, not equal, just comprable, do KDF players have as much that they can do)
"Is the economic model easy to understand, internally consistant and not vulnerable to exploitive inflation?"
"Is the crafting system workable and balanced within the greater game"
"Is the skill system working as intended and not giving excessive advantage to any particular class or build?"
"Are the ships balanced and workable within thier tiers?"
And all of what happens now is a set up for the future..
Persistant territorial PvP (ie: the Federation Klingon war!!!!)
Addition of new playable Factions (The Romulans, The Cardassian, The Fouders, The Terran Empire!!!"????)
New featured episode.. (you do realize that at this point they may very well have several dozen ready to go but are waiting on F2P launch before sliding them on us.. which will give them a bit of breating room after f2P launch to work on other dearly wanted features and content.
Its only week 3.. of a two to three MONTH testing period..
SO hang on to your socks.. we are likely through the roughest part allready.. tweaking and balancing right now. We should be seeing some other actuall CONTENT fairly soon. I am just itching to see what they roll out as the new KDF tutorial and mission progression and additions (GAwd I hope KDF gets a couple sector blocks more. We could really use them.. after all the new content has to happen somewhere! and considering the situation vis a vis KDF Marauding and Fed diplomacy the further away from fed spave KDF exploration zones are the happier I will be.. Farm some where else ya lazy pickers!
SO far, while there are issues none of them are a s bad as they could be.. change is happening but they dont have unlimited staff and its simply not feasable for them to pop out a patch and update every day. Not only is several game system undergoing change but the game is actually getting BIGGER! Much bigger... much much bigger.
I really hope they get in there and do something with the captains table... place is kinda wasted code at the moment.
Stuff taken away from Subscribers:
The 2 T-3 ships being put into the C-Store (Excelsior & Nebula)
1 Free VA Refit
Delta Flyer Mission, the one so you can get the Delta Flyer after doing 10 missions.
These are items in the game now that are FREE to subscribers that will only be in the C-Store when it goes F2P.
We were told we wouldn't lose any content, the Delta Flyer mission is content and a way to get the Delta Flyer for Free.
I don't see why they are doing all of this. When they made Champions F2P there was NO CHANGE in anything for the subscribers. One day it was a subscription Game, the next it was F2P. There were no items that they were getting for free before the switchover that when into the C-Store, But we are having at least 5 items going into the C-Store right off that bat.
If this isn't taking something away then you & I have a different meaning of taking away.....
I love this game and all it looks like to me is that Cryptic wants to have it's subscribers up in arms because each week we talk about how we were told nothing would change. What they are doing is making a large change that they know will get alot of pushback from us, that is so when they give a little of is back they get what they wanted in the first place. Case in point , buying of your ship when promoted. They had all ships had to be bought, then they gave back most, but kept the VA ships out of what they gave back which is what they probably wanted in the first place......
Bottom Line is that the only thing that should change for the subscribers is the conversion to the new currency, NOTHING ELSE SHOULD CHANGE!
If anything else is changed then we have been lied to once again.
The big problem I see with this sort of view point (as well as many others expressing similar view points) is that Free To Play does not equal Free To Run. Servers cost $$$. Data Center space costs $$$. Network connectivity costs $$$. IT support costs $$$. Development costs $$$. And, in the case of this game, licensing costs $$$.
The fact that things that used to be free under a subscription model are now going to cost $$$ under a free to play model shouldn't be a surprise to anyone. And yet, some seem to think that free to play is a one way street. Generation Entitlement I guess *shrug*. The ownership changed, and the business model changed... so guess what, part of things in the game changed too. Some proclaim this isn't "fair", but it's life. You can adapt and roll with the changes, or chose not to and be miserable.
Really, that's the basis of being all worked up, 2 additional ships, a shuttle, and a free token? If you're running as a free to play account, that's what, maybe $40 of C-Store points in your example? Which would be a little under 3 months of a subscription fee under the old system.
Yes, and society should have chased that trouble making Henry Ford out of town and off the continent. Along with Thomas Edison and Alexander Graham Bell. CHANGE IS BAD! ::rolleyes::
This argument makes no sense, just because something is a change doesn't mean it's good. The changes Cryptic is making are generally bad. They could have developed an F2P model that didn't severely penalize current subscribers, but they decided not to go that route. There's good reason for us to be upset.
It was a very bad sign from the start when the matrix was released and Gold got almost nothing worth subbing for. They clearly don't want paying subs, and they don't want them so badly that a Gold sub barely gives you anything, and you still have to suffer through all the same annoyances as a free Silver player. That was not the way they should have gone.
Cryptic's whole attitude about the F2P transition has just been completely wrong, and there's really no reason to feel optimistic at this point. Also, in just about every previous test run over the past 1.5 years, Cryptic has done things wrong, not listened to feedback, and just pushed 95% of the problems live. So, it's very likely they're just going to push almost all of the current changes live without making more than minor adjustments.
Which is...things are tough all over......the economy sucks...people are out of work....and the Government is broke....
How does this fit in with STO? Easy..the game might be free to play...however....if everything content and item wise is monetized with real life fundage....I do not think they are going to make as much as they had hoped....especially if they plan on raising the cost to acquire said in game items.
What you will have is a large game population just settling for the free part....and cryptic wont be seeing that big jump in revenue they had hoped for. Which in turn might lead to other aspects of the game collapsing in on itself, or Cryptic as a company being traded like a baseball card to the next 2nd rate company that's willing to pick them up for a discounted price.
Now understand that I watch lots of angles as it pertains to the GLOBAL economy.....and it's not looking too great. I think this is something HUGE cryptic should consider when it's trying to attract and keep both existing players as well as new ones.
Are you going to spend that $20.- on food? Or a new ship in the C-store? Granted some are dullard enough to buy the ship...and me thinks that is exactly what Cryptic is counting on.
I'm not trying to be a negative nancy here....but I will remind others that nothing is absolutely free in this world...and not everything free is as good as advertised.
Just an observation.......I could be wrong.......I hope I'm wrong......
I should and I did complain a lot about the changes as well, but I am done complaining...:) I will definitely change my subs to F2P when it becomes available... there will be another Space MMO coming out in DEC that the $15 a month are better spend on...
To sum it up:
- Change Subs to F2P
- Won't complain any more
- Spend money on other stuff
With space I meant futuristic MMO
I would like to see another Bridge Commander... I loved that game... Played it completely with voice control (through Game Commander) Made me feel like a real captain, saying HELM, they respond YES SIR, then I say: SET A COURSE TO ..... ENGAGE... and my ship went into warp towards the destination... ahhhhh.... great memories...
Acting as though it is ok to say: "Subscribers will have no negative effects" and then applying negative effects to those who do subscribe, is bad business. Even those who feel any change Cryptic is making is a good one, knows this. Reguardless if they will admit it publicly or not.
As to the people saying they are going to quit, try to understand their frustration. They like the game because it is different than other MMOs, the course it is taking is going to make it more like them, and change the very essence of the game.
I have no issue with a game going free to play, and must point out that like others have said, CO went F2P with "No negative effects for subscribers". Why then can STO not be the same way? Better to pull a Sony Station and change all sorts of things, coupled with alienating a great deal of subscribers? Not the best business model for any game.
Now I can understand how many people defend these decisions, and I don't actully mind the Dilithium, I do however mind the fact that you can only refine 8k a day as a subscriber. Bump that to 30k and then we will talk. I don't mind waiting 4 days to REFINE the dilithium required to make 7 weapons for my escort, however, I do mind waiting 14 days to REFINE the dilithium required to make 7 weapons for my escort...
"Oh, don't worry, you can buy dilithium in the C-Store"
I spend money in the C-Store on top of my subscription. The attitude of wait a month to outfit my ship properly at VA or buy the dilithium in the C-Store, makes me put my wallet AWAY. Take heart, for it is barely a minority, if it even still is a minority, that dislikes this specific element of the changes coming.
Either way, we can only hope that Cryptic continues to see the negative feelings about some of the changes and balances things better in the favor of subscribers. Because if they do not, they will loose a majority of the subscriptions, most people aren't "Die Hard Cryptic Fans" and will drop the sub and deal with what they get at F2P without spending more cash.
Agreed. I would LOVE it if STO adopted a gameplay model like this wherein we could control the ship from our bridge. It would require a complete rewrite of the game, though, and we all know that isn't going to happen.
They fixed the issues with this new economic model
They are in the process of fixing the DOFF system (which is awesome imo)
They did add a small cost to the crafting but that was to ensure that players couldn't simply dominate without a cost using crafted only items on their ship and crew without having earned it and without changing the specs on the items themselves.
They admitted to making a mistake when crafted items disappeared from the craft list and returned them.
They are slowly doing what they promised, and no it's not going to take years, these 14 yo's who want everything now now now need to understand that it does take time to make huge changes to a game and still retain the balance so players aren't screwed but new players do have to put a little time and money into it (if they want instant advancement).
So far their model is a bit like LOTRO and i find that fascinating since most mmo's that do this Freemium model get it all wrong. So far they've been good about it.
As a lifetimer i have a serious problem with them not making lifers more unique cosmetically then the subscribers but i'm not posting dramatics about it.
Oh and on a final note, people who complain about a company who was under Atari's management fail to realize that they are under PW's management this time and things are changing just look at the game, it is not as bad as people are claiming.
The reason people SHOULD be posting their feelings about the direction/elements/ect right now is, if we do not. Cryptic will take this as say "Its Ok As It Is".
They didnt give us free ship tokens up to RA back because we were quiet. They did so because the majority voiced an opinion about it costing pay to play members dilithium.
The only way the game will be more to the liking of the current subscribers is, if they voice their opinion, and if cryptic listens and balances it out accordingly.
However.....fine tuning at this point is a must.....and this needs to be handled with kid gloves because not everyone like me is going to accept where the implications are heading. Some people are going to freak out because its a revamp of the game they are used to...it will take time for this to pass like many things on these forums eventually do.
Still with a sideways view Im skeptical.....and judging from the last year.....can you really blame me?
Define "severely penalize"? When looking over the comparison matrix, I don't see a lot of 'severe penalties' in there:
Gold and F2P matrix
In fact, it looks very similar, with the exception of premium ships being a classification being added. But even then, gold gets a monthly stipend to offset those costs. Or, if the gold member doesn't want a new ship, they can use it for other things. Unlike a free ship token, that must be used for a ship.
I'm sorry, but I don't see the "severely penalize" portion in this. In fact, I see the silver as being an additional option for players, who can purchase the items that interest them, with less of a financial commitment.
Same annoyances? More inventory slots in both the character and banks? Unlimited game mail? Vet rewards? Free respec tokens on leveling? Unlimited energy credit storage? Additional BOFF slots when leveling? Foundry creation access? Unlimited access to the chat system and forums? And two things that stood out to me as not really defined yet, but could be interesting in how it compares: Unlimited Customer Service access, and Priority Login. And, on top of that, the gold level also gets a 400 monthly c-store credit stipend over the silver member. As I mentioned before, c-store credits that can be spent on anything, not limited as a ship token is.
I don't see the 'annoyances' in there with the gold members. In fact a lot of it seems to be how it is today, with many 'creature comforts' included that silver members will not get. Its easy to sit on a subscription now, and find a few things different and proclaim it's the end of the world.
You do realize you've just described every game out there? Any new release, update, or change _ALWAYS_ has someone proclaiming the direction is "wrong" and how the company is destined for dooooooom unless they revert back. Have some companies made poor directional decisions? Yes. Have some companies made directional decisions that proved successful? Yes.
Of course, you are entitled to your opinion, and at least you've stated some reasons. However, I also think that many of these molehill's are being made into mountains by some.
Personally, I like some of the changes on Tribble. I like the Doff system. I like the open queues for the events. I like rotating hourly events. I like having a more uniform monetary system instead of 10 different currencies. And I like all the additions coming to the C-Store, because then I (as a player) have more options available to me and I can pick and choose which I want. I'd much rather have that, then more limitations.
I don't see the "doom" or "gloom" that is being propagandized by a sub-set of the game. I see a change coming, and I'll see how it plays out. However, no one has a crystal ball to accurately predict how it will develop.
Bonus, Consols that can be equiped to other ships as you level up. Yes your galaxy can have a transwarp drive now. Also if you already have them then you get the consol for free.
I was supprised these two ships were in the game to begin with. Same with the va ships, I was supprised there was an ingame method to aquire those as well. Also the VA ships are nice but not game breaking, I just hit the level cap, and decideded not to get the Defiant Retrofit, because I wanted the extra eng BO slot.
I am hopeing that they at least give us a chunk of Dilithium at the level cap though. I hit it and all I got was Quinn saying here are some useless BO points, now get out.
Chin dun do Cryptic mun ti. translation: "Cryptic dudes jump this high!!!" :eek: Or close
OK putting this in the same league as those inventors is ridiculous. This is a game, a game in which the subscriber is already paying to play. If you are already paying to play why should you now have to pay for something that as a paying customer you were told was going to be free? The "Generation Entitlement" crack is out of line, I just want what I've paid for ... BTW I'm not from the "Generation Entitlement" I'm from the generation of that if you pay for something you should get it... and the subscribers have ALREADY PAID.....
Not all consoles can be used with other ships, the Defiant refit has a cloaking console and it can only be used with the Defiant and the Galaxy X, which also get the same console. they also did not give the extra console slot in the defiant refit...... So even thought they are moving powers to console it is really a little stupid when it can only be used with the 2 different ships it comes with.....
Bottom line, we were told nothing would change for the gold members and they are changing things for the gold members.....
Oh and while I'm at it why can't we get some information or a post from Cryptic on any of these concerns? They are answering other concerns all over the place, but not one word about this .... Ever think that is another reason why everyone is up in arms about these changes? No acknowledgement that anything is wrong....
Someone posted that Gold Members are going to have access to Customer Service and Silver player won't ..... I'm not going to say anything about this because it will get this post edited ....
That's what happens when you drink a whole bottle of rum!:p
Assuming, of course, the subscriber income is enough to cover those costs. After two years, lifetime subscriptions are basically 'free to play' accounts from the accounting point of view. Granted the specifics aren't something Cryptic can release, but I would suspect that the number of lifetime subscriptions that are basically a resource drain, are a significant cost to operations. Thus, now the move to 'free to play' with the inclusion of future ships as 'premium' classification so t hat the life time subscriptions also have to pony up if they choose.
Not really ridiculous. The point was to highly all the proclamations of DOOOOOOOOM and how the smallest of ant hills are getting transformed into the largest of mountains by people who have worked themselves up into such a lather over a perceived slight against them.
So, you've never encountered a business that NEVER had a price change, or change in services offered as they progressed? Sorry, but welcome to reality and the business world. Things change, especially when businesses are bought by new parent companies. It happens, and it will continue to happen. Heck not even just businesses, take a look at the governments.
Generation Entitlement isn't an age, it's an attitude. Re-read the quote you decided to put into your signature file.
"Lifetime subscribers also become Gold Members automatically and will not be charged a continuing subscription fee. Basically, nothing changes for Lifetime subscribers: They continue to have complete access to the same content, items and episodes the way they always have."
First, re-read it and look for the key word in there. That key word is "Basically". This word does not mean the all-encompassing, end all, final decree of something. Used in the context it was stated, it means 'generally', or in a non-specific fashion. Next, look at the features matrix to see:
Gold vs Silver Matrix
Basically looks the same to me. A few tweaks, with premium ships, and the addition of priority login and the monthly stipend. But certainly well within the statement you've quoted as the whole basis as to why Cryptic is suddenly untrustworthy, and the impending DOOOOOOOM.
Another point that makes your argument look more like Generation Entitlement, you took the quote of your example out of context. The quote you use can be found at the Free To Play FAQ at:
Free To Play FAQ
The original quote can be found about halfway down, under the question about lifetime subscriptions. Except, if one reads the full section, there is one important piece you left off. It can be found at the bottom of the article:
"PLEASE NOTE: Subject to change. We're continually implementing improvements and changes and may alter the free-to-play experience significantly based on user feedback."
So, the company basically indicated that the items and statements in FAQ section were subject to change, up front. Except the whole basis of your doom and gloom is that this portion of the statement was never made or stated up front.
But then again isn't the best part of the game that the developers are always updating it? Heck, the creator of that review claims they love the game more and more each day. So it would seem not everyone shares your view of impending doom and gloom. Just take the creator of that review for example.
You mean the people who put up money when they did not know if the game would succeed. Cryptic sold the LTS, they must now honor them. LTS are to be treated as a subscriber, whether or not they pay each month. If Cryptic didn't want to sell the LTS they didn't have to, it doesn't means that they start treating them like freeloaders. They are not, they put up the money at a time when Cryptic needed it. It was a risk, but you can't penalize them because they made a good purchase. The LTS is not a F2P player, they are a subscriber whether you like it or not!
You have this arguement about real world prices going up & changing ..... This is not the real world. Look at what was said "Basically, nothing changes for Lifetime subscribers: They continue to have complete access to the same content, items and episodes the way they always have"
The content is changed, the items have changed. No matter how you decide to look at it doesn't matter, the fact is it changed.
I put in my money and I've supported this game since it started. All LTS have supported this game and All LTS paid there money. I just want what I paid for, that is the same access I have now, no changes to squeeze more cash out of me, I've already paid it.
It really doesn't matter, you will say they aren't change it, I will say they are... We can go back and forth forever....
But more of the customers see it my way than yours, and the customer is always right!