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Path to F2P Dev Blog #15

SystemSystem Member, NoReporting Posts: 178,019 Arc User
edited November 2011 in Galactic News Network [PC]
Stephen discusses the changes made to Star Trek Online's Strategic Task Forces in this update on the Path to F2P.

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  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited October 2011
    You guys probably should have addressed peoples issues with the rDilithium in Crafting issue first...

    New STFs are here,ok fine, i'll be glad to test them once crafting has been fixed, otherwise all these new STF gears you are advertising negates Crafted Items worth at high end.
    Why would I wanna grind/refine Dilithium to craft high end gear when I can go get the STF gears that are, supposedly, just as good and better??
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited October 2011
    This should probably not have come without acknowledgement of feedback from 14, first, honestly.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited October 2011
    Ooookay Cool I guess, maybe I'll do be able to do them for more than once every month. Also you forgot to mention how you were changing crafting back....at least I HOPE you forgot.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited October 2011
    AuroraKet wrote: »
    This should probably not have come without acknowledgement of feedback from 14, first, honestly.

    This. /\

    Credit where credit is due; these do sound like good changes to STFs.
    I'm looking forward to this.

    That said, anything good right now is tainted by the lack of response to the issues raised over #14.
    It would have been wiser to devote this one to churning out some honest forthright responses/apologies.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited October 2011
    Post does not warn you that the new ground stuff has no GFX or animations on Tribble yet. :rolleyes:
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited October 2011
    AuroraKet wrote: »
    This should probably not have come without acknowledgement of feedback from 14, first, honestly.

    We're well aware of, and have been reading the feedback from blog #14, just like we read the rest of the forums.

    If you were looking for a post that says, "Hey! We read things! These things even!" Well, here you go.

    If you're looking for a post saying, "This is what we're going to do about this feedback from blog #14," please remember that it takes time for us to be able to read all that feedback, discuss it amongst the team, decide on a course of action, put it through testing, and then tell you about it as the changes are coming.

    Work on crafting is continuing. That work does not stop the people who work on STFs from working on STFs.

    So please, let's keep this thread about STFs. Not about crafting.

    There's already several threads about crafting.

    Thanks,

    Stormshade
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited October 2011
    Wait, so we don't have to pay dilithium to start an STF? Are you sure the dev blog is correct?

    Maybe that'll be for the elite version...

    Edit: Oh, fine, STF comment. I really like the look of the new armor, so having it elite-mode only is going to annoy a lot of casual players that rarely run STFs, and tremble in fear at the thought of making them harder.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited October 2011
    May I ask the thought process behind introducing the 'salvage' currency? Why not give dilithium as a reward? Or ECs?

    I do like the idea of breaking up the STFs into smaller chunks. This is a boon to a working geeky mom like me who can manage to sit down for an hour or 2 at a time and not get interrupted (barring child emergencies), but not necessarily 3 or 4 hour stretches to do an entire STF at one time. I appreciate the addition of that feature very much. I like the PvE queue idea, and may give that a try on the Tribble server.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited October 2011
    This post has been edited to remove content which violates the Cryptic Studios Community Rules and Policies. ~Stormshade
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited October 2011
    After having posted such a damning comment on the #14 thread... I feel required to actually say how all of this LOOKS like it's going to be able to be added to the DOff system as something to really look forward to... though I'm curious how the space/ground split will actually work; will it split teams up as the current Fleet Action system does even if they want to stay together?
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited October 2011
    To resolve this, the STFs are now available via the PvE queue, making it much easier to get in and play with a full team.

    Haha!

    Will it really mean a damn thing if the "full team" is just a random combination instead of a stratetic setup....
    The STFs now reward a new kind of loot called "salvage". Salvage comes in a couple of different rarity levels, and can be traded in at special stores in Earth Space Dock and Qo'noS for Mark X, Mark XI, or even Mark XII gear that is specially tuned to assist with anti-Borg missions.

    There are three entirely new top tier gear sets that can only be earned by playing STFs in the "elite" mode. There is one Federation set, one Klingon set, and one neutral set that is usable by either faction. The salvage store characters are wearing these new sets, so stop by the check out their high end armor. While you are there, peek into the store to see the rest of the gear sets and the other anti-Borg equipment that is available.

    Translation:

    We are turning STFs into the largest grindfest within the game, it will take you much much longer to even get a simple reward. We are doing this because this is all we can do, no true end-game content, just a long and dull grind to make sure the playerbase is still dissapointed, but keeping them fed on false hope so that we can get as much of their money as possible.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited October 2011
    StormShade wrote:
    We're well aware of, and have been reading the feedback from blog #14, just like we read the rest of the forums.

    If you were looking for a post that says, "Hey! We read things! These things even!" Well, here you go.

    If you're looking for a post saying, "This is what we're going to do about this feedback from blog #14," please remember that it takes time for us to be able to read all that feedback, discuss it amongst the team, decide on a course of action, put it through testing, and then tell you about it as the changes are coming.

    Work on crafting is continuing. That work does not stop the people who work on STFs from working on STFs.

    So please, let's keep this thread about STFs. Not about crafting.

    There's already several threads about crafting.

    Thanks,

    Stormshade

    I think the issue is that many of us think it is so ludicrous to charge Dilitium to craft that there is only one reasonable thing to do about it and that's to admit that it was a bad idea and can the idea all together.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited October 2011
    StormShade wrote:
    We're well aware of, and have been reading the feedback from blog #14, just like we read the rest of the forums.

    If you were looking for a post that says, "Hey! We read things! These things even!" Well, here you go.

    If you're looking for a post saying, "This is what we're going to do about this feedback from blog #14," please remember that it takes time for us to be able to read all that feedback, discuss it amongst the team, decide on a course of action, put it through testing, and then tell you about it as the changes are coming.

    Work on crafting is continuing. That work does not stop the people who work on STFs from working on STFs.

    So please, let's keep this thread about STFs. Not about crafting.

    There's already several threads about crafting.

    Thanks,

    Stormshade

    I think too many people are too angry to think about STFs now because a significant social part of the game is impaired now. I've read a lot of objections to DL changes, but the crafting seems to be by far the most unpopular and aggravating one. I kinda supported all previous decisions, in spite of the wining protests, but even I can't fathom the logic behind DL for crafting.

    So, first you should post some kind of clarification and then expect feedback that focuses on other parts.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited October 2011
    JaeOnasi wrote:
    May I ask the thought process behind introducing the 'salvage' currency? Why not give dilithium as a reward? Or ECs?

    I do like the idea of breaking up the STFs into smaller chunks. This is a boon to a working geeky mom like me who can manage to sit down for an hour or 2 at a time and not get interrupted (barring child emergencies), but not necessarily 3 or 4 hour stretches to do an entire STF at one time. I appreciate the addition of that feature very much. I like the PvE queue idea, and may give that a try on the Tribble server.

    I think that was done that way to grant rewards to each player vs a team lottery system...
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited October 2011
    JaeOnasi wrote:
    May I ask the thought process behind introducing the 'salvage' currency? Why not give dilithium as a reward? Or ECs?


    ^ This! 1000 times this. Wasn't gated dilithium added to the game to get rid of the myriad types of currency? If we're going the dilithium route, then let's go the dilithium route. Either dilithium really was added to simplify the in-game economy or it wasn't.

    The dilithium "tax" on crafting has basically killed fleet crafters (in it's current form), forcing people to fend for themselves as crafters or grind/buy dilithium to purchase from vendors. Now you add salvage currency. The ONLY reason for this is to make sure that only people who do STF's can get the gear. So decide, are we monetizing ships and gear, or are they rewards for accomplishing things in-game, because frankly, you guys are all over the map with these changes.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited October 2011
    Can you tweak the turrets on Cure Ground? They took longer to kill individually than the final boss.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited October 2011
    StormShade wrote:
    We're well aware of, and have been reading the feedback from blog #14, just like we read the rest of the forums.

    If you were looking for a post that says, "Hey! We read things! These things even!" Well, here you go.

    If you're looking for a post saying, "This is what we're going to do about this feedback from blog #14," please remember that it takes time for us to be able to read all that feedback, discuss it amongst the team, decide on a course of action, put it through testing, and then tell you about it as the changes are coming.

    Work on crafting is continuing. That work does not stop the people who work on STFs from working on STFs.

    So please, let's keep this thread about STFs. Not about crafting.

    There's already several threads about crafting.

    Thanks,

    Stormshade

    Yes a simple post stating anything is a good idea. thanks
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited October 2011
    StormShade wrote:
    We're well aware of, and have been reading the feedback from blog #14, just like we read the rest of the forums.

    If you were looking for a post that says, "Hey! We read things! These things even!" Well, here you go.

    If you're looking for a post saying, "This is what we're going to do about this feedback from blog #14," please remember that it takes time for us to be able to read all that feedback, discuss it amongst the team, decide on a course of action, put it through testing, and then tell you about it as the changes are coming.

    Work on crafting is continuing. That work does not stop the people who work on STFs from working on STFs.

    So please, let's keep this thread about STFs. Not about crafting.

    There's already several threads about crafting.

    Thanks,

    Stormshade
    i like the changes of crafting. it means i dont have to grind to get better gear thats not in r%d. if i have to spend some dilithum to get the same gear that you spend embles in then im all for it. most of these people in these fourms just like to wine cry and *****. im getting tired of reading it and i swear, i think people on these fourms are making me dumber just by reading it.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited October 2011
    I'm looking forward to testing the STFs on a harder setting. Should give me an idea of how useful I am to a group.

    Also can't wait for the talent revamp. Just hope it doesn't nerf my performance ultra hard.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited October 2011
    Removed by poster.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited October 2011
    StormShade wrote:
    We're well aware of, and have been reading the feedback from blog #14, just like we read the rest of the forums.

    If you were looking for a post that says, "Hey! We read things! These things even!" Well, here you go.

    If you're looking for a post saying, "This is what we're going to do about this feedback from blog #14," please remember that it takes time for us to be able to read all that feedback, discuss it amongst the team, decide on a course of action, put it through testing, and then tell you about it as the changes are coming.

    Work on crafting is continuing. That work does not stop the people who work on STFs from working on STFs.

    So please, let's keep this thread about STFs. Not about crafting.

    There's already several threads about crafting.

    Thanks,

    Stormshade


    youve always been one of the more liked devs, and in all honesty, one of the most trusted devs, stormy. but that response was weak. it takes time to read through all the feedback? i just went through all 42 pages of it in 10 minutes because it all said the same thing- its a terrible idea. that doesnt take a genius to acknowledge that a bad idea was implemented. when is cryptic and, more importantly, PW going to admit a mistake was made and revert back to the old crafting changes? honestly, from reading through the 42 pages of the previous path to F2P post, the only thing the player base is concerned with right now is the new dilithium economy and how its TRIBBLE the subbers over? this whole idea of being gated with 8k refine limit per day is bogus, having any dilithium spent to craft an item is bogus, and in general, cryptic and PW handling of a new economy is just bogus. i would much rather have the economy in the shape it is now than to have the TRIBBLE that is being presented on tribble, regardless of how much work it has left. if you do plan on working on the economy, there is enough work to be done to push back F2P until the end of next year. gold members are getting screwed, and cryptic has not come out and given us an answer to why were being screwed, nor what is going to be done to give us an incentive to even subscribe to this game anymore. the little piecemeal things that you have "given" us are things that we are already given on holodeck. this game is headed in the wrong direction- and its only a matter of time until the whole thing comes crashing down in a huge fireball.

    now i see why dan left- he worked his *** off to get the game headed in the right direction only to have it smashed down in front of him. i honestly dont even care if i get banned from the forums at this point- the players, ALL OF THE PLAYERS have spoken on this subject and are being swept under the rug like dust. if thats the thanks we get for the loyalty weve shown for the past 2 years, then this game deserves to go down in flames.

    edit: i forgot to add... all this economy revamp revolves around fewer currencies. yet the new STFs give out a new currency. does that make ANY sense to you at all? seriously? thats just stupid.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited October 2011
    Oh, remastered STF. Cool! Now, how about giving us a proper ship at VA to efficiently fight them? This is a major issue that is on triblle since... Let me see. Oh, yes. Since it went live, 3 weeks ago.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited October 2011
    youve always been one of the more liked devs, and in all honesty, one of the most trusted devs, stormy.

    Stormshade isnt a developer. He is a community rep, which basically means he communicates between the Dev team and the players. He isnt involved in the actually development of the game though.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited October 2011
    You know, I was loving reading about the STF revamps. Between Gozer's tweets and seeing it on STOked #100, I was ready to give them a spin. However, even wanting to take these out for a test drive is hampered by the lack of communication on any of the issues that we, the LOYAL playerbase, have had since Tribble was opened three or four weeks ago. There is way too much broken right now to make me want to log back in to the test server. Hell, I'm not even sure I'll be still around even on the forums come the holidays unless Cryptic/Perfect World steps up to plate and actually LISTENS to us.

    Where was I? Oh, yeah. The topic at hand. STFs. Great idea breaking them up into bite-sized chunks. I'll give points for that. The ground gear sets look awesome, particularly the Klingon set. But, why oh why is it "elite" only? Can't we get a set with (slightly) inferior stats that can be gained by doing it on "normal"? People love to toss around WoW as a comparison, but I see this as a good indicator of identical looking sets with different stats working fine in an MMO situation. You can get a tiered set on "normal" 5-man dungeon runs or "10-man" raids, all with halfway decent stats. You can get an identical (or near-identical) set by running "heroic" 5-man dungeon runs or "25-man" raids, all with superior stats. Any chance that we might be able to see this happen?

    EDIT: Oh, yeah. And how much Refined Dilithium is it going to take, in addition to the Borg Salvage, to get these gear sets. Everything ELSE is costing RD these days. :rolleyes:
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited October 2011
    OK OK we get it! They killed crafting. It's a useless feature I've ignored for the better part of the last year. I just don't care.

    What's the deal with the borg sets? Do we need to stock up salvage to buy something that used to be a drop now?
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited October 2011
    As a Player that is and always was a big Fan of the STFs, I must say I am very happy with the Changes.

    The Loot is now so much better, after 100+ STFs on Tribble I do not have a single BoP I did not want to have or do not need.
    I dont see STFs becoming a grind fest. Actually the state how they are on Holodeck is a lot more of a grind fest then on Tribble.
    Outfit your Ship and Character on Holodeck with STF Boss Drops and Marks of Valer purchases, and compare it to Tribble salvage Purchases, you will see on Tribble it is a Lot faster.

    On Holodeck:
    I am a Klingon and I am soooo alone in Gamma Orionis (Echo of emptiness)
    I just Spent 2 Hours on an STF and did not get any Prize
    Six of Ten drops a Sci kit BoP of course, ohh we dont have a Sci on the team.
    Great I am soloing Rebbecca again, my Team is in the Plasma.
    The team breaks apart, they are not able to kill so many workers and so many elite/tac Drones simultaneously.
    2 on my Team just killed a shield Transmitter and then are complaining where is the purple Loot
    3 on my Team hate ground Play, after the space section they leave.
    list can be continued with 100 other Things I dont have out the Top of my head

    On Tribble
    I am a Klingon and queue up and show some Feds what Honor is (and I am not the only Klingon on Team)
    I did an STF in 30 Minutes and got somthing nice from Armeg, so as every one on the Team.
    Rebbecca dropped a Tech, I will now get the item I want.
    There are Ramps and Bridges for the overwhelming high number of jumping impaired.
    A smal number of workers and 2 Turrets, nothing teamwork and simple tactic cant handle.
    BO Pop Ups explain what do do
    Nobody on the Team absolutly hates Ground Play and is unwilling to do it.
    List can be extendet with other things I have not found yet.


    Dificulty and Loot rates still need the final Tuning and adjustment to satisfy most players ( Not all this is Impossible)
    SO overall I can say we are on the right way.

    my Two Stripes of Latinum
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited October 2011
    JaeOnasi wrote:
    May I ask the thought process behind introducing the 'salvage' currency? Why not give dilithium as a reward? Or ECs?

    Just ran The Cure (Space) just to be sure. On Normal mode, in addition to everything else, I also received 1,100 Dilithium ore at the end of the mission. This was true for all the other Borg STFs last time I played them as well, though it was before the last patch.

    Why are people saying you aren't getting Dilithium for running STFs ?

    Oh, P.S. - No Dilithium costs for crafting, please
    P.P.S. - Add a VA ship token back to the game. Like, at the 100 day accolade or something, since silver players don't get those.

    Don't think we've forgotten just because those topics aren't the latest hottest topic, please.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited October 2011
    Humm, well I"LL post something about the changes in the STF's..

    I like them.

    The cure space can be run in UNDER 10 min by a geared team of ANY mix of players. Infected Space takes slightly longer, Infected Ground longer still and Cure gound longest of all... especially if you blow the puzzles. The New Terradome is not in place yet and I'm looking forward to it.

    Many of the bugs in the STF's that were in place when they went live On tribble have been fixed and both the cure and infected are quite playable and fun.

    Normal could even be a little bit harder for the Space versions

    (well see if I can still say that when they throw the Elite versions at us...)

    Theres still some niggling little issues to be fixed dealing with auto teaming and player teamed or not teamed getting or not getting loot rolls but I am very sure they're on the way to fixed.

    If there is ANY issue or complaint I have during testing its that I would very much like to waltz around First City and Drazona Station in my Honor Guard uniform visuals after running somewhere around 200 STF runs.. I think I've earned the pretty looks.

    As a rebuttle to the "its nothing but a grindfest now" complaints I've seen in this thread allready.. Dudes, it wasn't a painfull grind before? I've run all of these on Holodeck and wiped dozens apon dozens of times. Or gotten the bonus drops and have the drops be utter TRIBBLE compared to what everyone allready had on thier ships and toons JUST to be able to run the STF's in the first place with a reasonable chance of success. And all you could really realisticly manage was one, maybe two runs per day at Lt.Gen/V-Adm level of play. I know people who run them over a 200 times on Holodeck and they simply do as something to do at this point and could care less about the loot. These players allready have the BEST gear availible on Holodeck. The new version are much more approchable and doable by the casual gamer crowd. The Elite verions will offer greater rewards and be much more difficult..strong emphisis on the "Much" I am sure. The rationalization of these STF's will be a boon to the game, and will pave the way for a number of future STF type missions. ..And even more spiff gear for toons and ships. ..Which reminds me.. I might want to start thinking about grinding out gear sets for my away team...


    Good job on the STF revamps Cryptic. I happen to think they're a real winner.!............. for everyone.
    And a vast improvement.

    Now turn on the doggone Uniforms in the tailors will ya!!
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited October 2011
    JaeOnasi wrote:
    May I ask the thought process behind introducing the 'salvage' currency? Why not give dilithium as a reward? Or ECs?

    I do like the idea of breaking up the STFs into smaller chunks. This is a boon to a working geeky mom like me who can manage to sit down for an hour or 2 at a time and not get interrupted (barring child emergencies), but not necessarily 3 or 4 hour stretches to do an entire STF at one time. I appreciate the addition of that feature very much. I like the PvE queue idea, and may give that a try on the Tribble server.

    First, there is a dilithium award. Second, I cannot find the post, but I believe I saw a dev post that mentioned the possibility of a dilithium crate as an option (instead of the salvage) for folks who have gotten all of the gear.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited October 2011
    GenEricII wrote:

    ^ This! 1000 times this. Wasn't gated dilithium added to the game to get rid of the myriad types of currency? If we're going the dilithium route, then let's go the dilithium route. Either dilithium really was added to simplify the in-game economy or it wasn't.

    Now you add salvage currency. The ONLY reason for this is to make sure that only people who do STF's can get the gear. So decide, are we monetizing ships and gear, or are they rewards for accomplishing things in-game, because frankly, you guys are all over the map with these changes.

    Salvage is not a currency. It is more analogous to a ship token. You succesfully complete the STF, you get a salvage token. You use that to claim one of the set pieces. This has a twofold advantage: no loot tables to frustrate everyone, and the option to choose your pieces rather than linking a given piece to a specific stf part. Making the stf gear a dilithium only purchase would mean is wasn't stf gear...
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