I just noticed recently that the Special Task Force Starfleet officers standing outside Admiral Quinn's office on Tribble are all wearing MACO duty patches. Thanks for this.
I've always felt that the MACOs were a reasonable attempt by ENT to try to answer the age-old fan discussion as to whatever became of special forces and Marines-type ships troops in Star Trek.
Security officers always seemed to be one part military police and one part trooper -- a sort of hybrid duty specialty which worked perfectly well for the early TV shows and films.
The present-day MACOs here in 2409 are a good way of suggesting what became of 21-century special forces organizations (and their non-Earth counterparts) as the timeline progressed, and Earth and the Federation became a unified galactic power.
Star Trek Online's canon moves forward, while retaining a nod to Trek's past. I find it a very satisfying solution.
It never really made sense to me the Star Fleet personnel filled every 'military' role. That would be like the using Air Force pilots as infantry.
Besides that, the same rules apply to interplanetary warfare as they do to planetary warfare. You have to have boots on the ground to control territory.
niiiiice, this was only a matter of time IMO. They appeared in the STO novel and i do believe the seeker drone has MACO written on it.
Makes me happy to see it become more legit ingame, i already have MACO uniforms setup on some of my Boffs based on the DS9 combat uniforms.
Still though, i gotta wonder how many people this will infuriate. I got 50 c-points riding on a claim of Gene Roddenberry rolling in his grave at some point.
You should read the book by Heinlen, Space Patrol. In line with that, Roddenberry is quoted as stating that there would be no "enlisted" in starfleet, there were only officers. This is contradicted in many of the shows, but I think that is why you don't see the standard naval split with fleet personnel and a sub-corps of what we would call "marines." I mean...starfleet officers have to do dissertations...its....well frankly its a weird awkward universe, star trek. I try not to see the duct tape fraying.
This might get me burned at the stake, but Trek could use a N-BSG style reboot. JJ-Verse might be heading in that direction, the 2009 movie was certainly more militaristic in tone.
This doesn't mean that the story would have to be purely military/combat oriented, just more consistent and realistic in presentation. There would still be plenty of room for exploration and diplomacy stories.
Actually I think the 2009 movie went back to Gene Roddenberry roots. I mean look at what Starfleet was described as: Humanitarian and Peacekeeping Armada. The members are all officers, no enlisted men as far as I could tell, ships are designed to take part in combat if needed, but not really any ships like Defiant or Akira which are designed solely and exclusively for that purpose. But I agree, we will see where it goes.
I think seeing MACO/Marines/GroPos in ENT was okay. Earth was still evolving into Rodenberry's post-scarcity utopia. I always thought it was odd that O'brien was converted to an enlisted character in DS9. In TNG he was ambiguously the transporter chief but that didn't appear to be his rank as much as his position.
It seems like Berman et al went against Rodenberry's desire to have an egalitarian all-officer corps.
This might get me burned at the stake, but Trek could use a N-BSG style reboot. JJ-Verse might be heading in that direction, the 2009 movie was certainly more militaristic in tone.
You aren't getting burned at the stake, you're getting obliterated by a sub-atomic particle explosion. :eek:
You should read the book by Heinlen, Space Patrol. In line with that, Roddenberry is quoted as stating that there would be no "enlisted" in starfleet, there were only officers. This is contradicted in many of the shows, but I think that is why you don't see the standard naval split with fleet personnel and a sub-corps of what we would call "marines." I mean...starfleet officers have to do dissertations...its....well frankly its a weird awkward universe, star trek. I try not to see the duct tape fraying.
That doesn't make any sense. There was a rather prominent enlisted crewman in TOS: Yeoman Janice Rand. She got promoted later but right up through ST:TMP she was an enlisted crewman.
I imagine the "marine corps" part of Starfleet was probably largely retired during TOS and the first few seasons of TNG, but the appearance of the Borg likely prompted them to re-activate the force around the same time they commissioned the Defiant, Akira, et al. Though it would probably take a few years to get a reasonable number of troops through training.
It never really made sense to me the Star Fleet personnel filled every 'military' role. That would be like the using Air Force pilots as infantry.
Besides that, the same rules apply to interplanetary warfare as they do to planetary warfare. You have to have boots on the ground to control territory.
Yeah, comparing this to modern military is very difficult. In some countries, the air force is actually a part of the ground forces. There is a lot of crossover. In the US, the SEALS are a part of the navy (as are naval aviators). Marines and Army both operate on occupied territory. It's not always as clear cut as it would seem. All we really know for sure is Starfleet operates as the primary military wing of the Federation.
Also, it is worth noting that having large standing ground troops is usually not a good idea in space combat. In a realistic setting (which ST tried to hint at a few times, but failed due to continuity) ships in orbit can easily obliterate any ground troops, or even the entire planet, making fortification of a planet largely a waste of time. The only real need is as prevention from boarding parties on ships (hence tactical officers).
Still though, i gotta wonder how many people this will infuriate. I got 50 c-points riding on a claim of Gene Roddenberry rolling in his grave at some point.
"I bid five thousand quatloos on the newcomer!" :-)
Seriously, I'm kind of surprised by how flame-less this thread has been thus far (not to mention very grateful!).
Some of the follow-up posts have raised interesting questions about the possibilities of altered function for specialized ground troops in the Trek future.
That said, I imagine that in Trek's melieu, there will still always be a need for highly-skilled combatant teams -- for everything from battle scenarios, to hostage rescue, and beyond.
Again, I think referencing the MACOs was a nice touch here by the devs, and I thank them for it.
Speaking of nice referencing, did anyone else notice that the weapons and devices the STF MACOs offer as mission rewards are labelled "Elite Force" weaponry? As in the late, great "Star Trek: Elite Force" games?
Comments
Besides that, the same rules apply to interplanetary warfare as they do to planetary warfare. You have to have boots on the ground to control territory.
Makes me happy to see it become more legit ingame, i already have MACO uniforms setup on some of my Boffs based on the DS9 combat uniforms.
Still though, i gotta wonder how many people this will infuriate. I got 50 c-points riding on a claim of Gene Roddenberry rolling in his grave at some point.
This doesn't mean that the story would have to be purely military/combat oriented, just more consistent and realistic in presentation. There would still be plenty of room for exploration and diplomacy stories.
It seems like Berman et al went against Rodenberry's desire to have an egalitarian all-officer corps.
You aren't getting burned at the stake, you're getting obliterated by a sub-atomic particle explosion. :eek:
That doesn't make any sense. There was a rather prominent enlisted crewman in TOS: Yeoman Janice Rand. She got promoted later but right up through ST:TMP she was an enlisted crewman.
I imagine the "marine corps" part of Starfleet was probably largely retired during TOS and the first few seasons of TNG, but the appearance of the Borg likely prompted them to re-activate the force around the same time they commissioned the Defiant, Akira, et al. Though it would probably take a few years to get a reasonable number of troops through training.
Yeah, comparing this to modern military is very difficult. In some countries, the air force is actually a part of the ground forces. There is a lot of crossover. In the US, the SEALS are a part of the navy (as are naval aviators). Marines and Army both operate on occupied territory. It's not always as clear cut as it would seem. All we really know for sure is Starfleet operates as the primary military wing of the Federation.
Also, it is worth noting that having large standing ground troops is usually not a good idea in space combat. In a realistic setting (which ST tried to hint at a few times, but failed due to continuity) ships in orbit can easily obliterate any ground troops, or even the entire planet, making fortification of a planet largely a waste of time. The only real need is as prevention from boarding parties on ships (hence tactical officers).
"I bid five thousand quatloos on the newcomer!" :-)
Seriously, I'm kind of surprised by how flame-less this thread has been thus far (not to mention very grateful!).
Some of the follow-up posts have raised interesting questions about the possibilities of altered function for specialized ground troops in the Trek future.
That said, I imagine that in Trek's melieu, there will still always be a need for highly-skilled combatant teams -- for everything from battle scenarios, to hostage rescue, and beyond.
Again, I think referencing the MACOs was a nice touch here by the devs, and I thank them for it.
Speaking of nice referencing, did anyone else notice that the weapons and devices the STF MACOs offer as mission rewards are labelled "Elite Force" weaponry? As in the late, great "Star Trek: Elite Force" games?
Very cool, dev-folk. Very cool.
KOS