So I transfered VA to tribble last nigh, and low and behold most of the missions are locked because I didn't do 2 in the cardissian mission set. Since I am capped there is no reason for me to go back and run through low missions, I get no dilithium, and can't upgrade my equipment beacause of it. This is an issue I am hopping is addressed soon, since we have not heard a Dev comment on it one way or another. We need the story progression lock turned off, at least for gold members, it takes alot out of the game. I understand you are trying to make it easier for new players, but if that is the case, only lock levels 1-10.
Edit: Although I still recieve my B'tran missions.
The lock needs to be removed. Well, more like at X level you open up Y front regardless of how far you are in the previous front. For example, my friends and I really dig the explore missions and that is pretty much how we got to VA, I haven't done ANY of the romulan or cardassian fronts and very little of the borg/undine. Its total BS. Even if our tribble xp is TRIPLE what we would get on holodeck I still would have been a commander by the time I finished the klingon front. A commander getting mk III rewards. Let us skip fronts!
At this point, I think we can all safely say that this system cannot go live in its current state. If any player who previously skipped a mission is being locked out of all subsequent missions, that could easily send players away from the game completely.
I think locking you into the storyline is reasonable and appropriate, and while I agree that it makes sense to break it into multiple chains/fronts (as the UI implies it already is) which unlock at appropriate levels, I certainly don't think the forced story progression should be done away with entirely.
And as long as I'm being contrary to vocal-minority-opinion, I'd also like to say I think the first 3 FE should be part of the forced story progression, and that I really like where they've put them. It was great facing past-B'Vat in one mission and then present-B'Vat in the next mission... which led back to past-B'Vat again! And the Romulan/Reman FEs flow quite naturally from all the other Romulan missions, and always have. (Spoiler: The Iconians ordered the Romulans to blow up Hobus? And we learned they were working with Borg tech in the same story arc, which was in the game at launch? Duh.)
This game is primarily about story. Doing the story missions out of order (it's currently possible/likely to get missions in the same story arc, out of order, on Holodeck - where the initial Hail says "based on the information you retrieved at X..." and you haven't touched the mission at X yet) can be confusing and frustrating for anyone who, say, actually reads the mission text.
For a game that is primarily about story, it certainly seems quite lacking in this department.
Anyway, isn't there ALREADY a degree of forced story progression in the game as it is now? I mean a Lt. can go fly to DS9 the second he commands his own ship, but he can't pick up the Cardiassion missions from the DS9 CO. Also, isn't the difficulty of the missions adjusted so that unless you're X level, you would be pretty underpowered anyways? I thought that was how it worked on holodeck, I don't see why these natural barriers to excessive skipping aren't sufficient as they are.
IMHO the main problem with the missions as presented on holodeck is that it's just not clear which missions ARE the story missions, and in what order you need to play them to keep consistent since it's possible to "obtain" more than one of them at a time. I remember being rather confused about missions in general when I first started playing STO. However, the mission menu on tribble really is a lot nicer and goes a long ways towards directing new players to play the missions in the right order.
One complaint I have about it though is that reading the missions almost seems spoilerific- if you can readily read the descriptions for every mission and know that 4 missions from now you have to go to planet X to save character Y... it kind of spoils the fun. At least hide the description text for the missions you haven't gotten to yet. Again... you know... for a game primarily about STORY... why spoil it so easily to your players?
I think locking you into the storyline is reasonable and appropriate, and while I agree that it makes sense to break it into multiple chains/fronts (as the UI implies it already is) which unlock at appropriate levels, I certainly don't think the forced story progression should be done away with entirely.
And as long as I'm being contrary to vocal-minority-opinion, I'd also like to say I think the first 3 FE should be part of the forced story progression, and that I really like where they've put them. It was great facing past-B'Vat in one mission and then present-B'Vat in the next mission... which led back to past-B'Vat again! And the Romulan/Reman FEs flow quite naturally from all the other Romulan missions, and always have. (Spoiler: The Iconians ordered the Romulans to blow up Hobus? And we learned they were working with Borg tech in the same story arc, which was in the game at launch? Duh.)
This game is primarily about story. Doing the story missions out of order (it's currently possible/likely to get missions in the same story arc, out of order, on Holodeck - where the initial Hail says "based on the information you retrieved at X..." and you haven't touched the mission at X yet) can be confusing and frustrating for anyone who, say, actually reads the mission text.
Unfortunately if you actually follow the missions, very few of them actually directly call back to a previous one. And the majority of those are already chained on Holodeck! Yes there could be some more chaining in certain areas, but most are fine just as they are.
What this new system does is nothing short of nonsense, linking missions together that aren't even related to the rest of the theme, to say nothing of actually being directly referred to in the storyline. Missions like Researcher Rescue and War is Good for Business have nothing to do with the overall Klingon War storyline. In the Romulan line, the Hirogen missions are all completely stand alone. The Undine episodes were fine the way they were. The Cardassian story episodes were also chained appropriately. The KDF side episodes were already appropriately chained in their small series.
But now they just have one giant ridiculous story arc that adds nothing to the game because the story is not one long chain, neither with the fronts themselves having anything to do with one another, nor inside each front are the missions all related.
Have you watched Star Trek? Even DS9, which had some of the most involved ongoing story arcs, had plenty of random episodes mixed in which did not advance the meta-story. Not every episode of DS9 was about the Dominion War. Not every episode of Voyager had them making huge headway on their way home. TOS and TNG were basically all episodes not related to ... anything. But the episodes still came in a particular order. An episode or two of the ongoing story, an unrelated episode, then back to the ongoing story - is normal. Not just for Star Trek, but for most episodic storytelling. As I've been playing through the story chain on Tribble, I've felt that most episodes had been reasonably well-placed.
I especially liked it when I reached the end of one story mission and turned in some, say, encrypted data, or a prisoner needing interrogation, and instead of immediately *click* the next thing the Admiral says is "after a long interrogation..." or "it was hard work decrypting that, but our analysts say...", I got some unrelated mission to take care of, and when I finished THAT, the interrogation/decryption/whatever had turned up some useful data and a new mission! Yay! So much more satisfying!
Playing 5 weeks of FEs which previously were a week apart each can be disorienting because there are no missions in between them. I would say they should divide up the patrols and insert them into the chain in between the story missions, especially the FEs, so you don't get instant story-jumps like that. Add a little flavor text which is aware of the order of the missions, like "while Star Fleet Intelligence works on that data, would you go check out system X?" would go a long way to enforcing story immersion.
I'm divided on the issue of spoilers. On one hand, I work hard not to put spoilers in the descriptions (and on the cover copy) of the books I publish. On the other hand, studies show that being "spoiled" pretty consistently increases people's enjoyment of a story. Which also matches my anecdotal observations, even among people who think they are spoiler-averse.
The Rear Admiral Upper Half I transferred to Tribble is locked... OUT of the episodes. The only option I have is to replay most of the episodes. She still hasn't done any of the Borg/Undine stuff, though. I've gone over the list very thoroughly, and there are no lower level missions waiting to be finished. She can't do any more episodes, except through replay.
The Rear Admiral Upper Half I transferred to Tribble is locked... OUT of the episodes. The only option I have is to replay most of the episodes. She still hasn't done any of the Borg/Undine stuff, though. I've gone over the list very thoroughly, and there are no lower level missions waiting to be finished. She can't do any more episodes, except through replay.
I'm not sure if that's a bug or what.
Sure sounds like a bug. I haven't tried transferring a character, yet. I'd guess you just need to play the last story episode you have access to? I don't know. Submit it as a bug. Also, probably, put in a GM ticket.
Have you watched Star Trek? Even DS9, which had some of the most involved ongoing story arcs, had plenty of random episodes mixed in which did not advance the meta-story. Not every episode of DS9 was about the Dominion War. Not every episode of Voyager had them making huge headway on their way home. TOS and TNG were basically all episodes not related to ... anything. But the episodes still came in a particular order. An episode or two of the ongoing story, an unrelated episode, then back to the ongoing story - is normal. Not just for Star Trek, but for most episodic storytelling. As I've been playing through the story chain on Tribble, I've felt that most episodes had been reasonably well-placed.
Definitely I'm aware there were plenty of episodes that had nothing to do with any other episode, but you know the series only forced you to watch them all the way through, in order, once, right? To force us into this lockstep for EVERY SINGLE CHARACTER is just mind numbing. It's even worse if you get to level cap and STILL have missions left over, yet you still can't start the Breen series because you haven't done every other episode in game yet. You can run the borg STFs for many levels yet you can't get the last part for the set from Assimilated till who knows when.
In another vein, though, the TV series, in a general sense, did build off every previous episode with character development. This just doesn't exist in a linear pattern for random one off episodes in STO which only involve our personal characters. So to force people into this mold when this is an MMO, not a TV show, and there are supposed to be lots and lots of things to do at any particular point, and multiple leveling paths, this system just breaks down painfully, and doesn't actually make sense.
Definitely I'm aware there were plenty of episodes that had nothing to do with any other episode, but you know the series only forced you to watch them all the way through, in order, once, right? To force us into this lockstep for EVERY SINGLE CHARACTER is just mind numbing. It's even worse if you get to level cap and STILL have missions left over, yet you still can't start the Breen series because you haven't done every other episode in game yet. You can run the borg STFs for many levels yet you can't get the last part for the set from Assimilated till who knows when.
I can see (though am not really happy about) making someone's first character play through the story missions in order. Locking the story missions for all subsequent playthroughs is kinda like me signing in to Netflix and being told I can't watch such-and-such an episode because I haven't seen all the previous ones in order.
In another vein, though, the TV series, in a general sense, did build off every previous episode with character development. This just doesn't exist in a linear pattern for random one off episodes in STO which only involve our personal characters. So to force people into this mold when this is an MMO, not a TV show, and there are supposed to be lots and lots of things to do at any particular point, and multiple leveling paths, this system just breaks down painfully, and doesn't actually make sense.
Frankly, a story is more than just a chain of events. There should be something building, recurring characters, themes, etc. There are stories within the missions (and I don't object to those being chained) but I can't see how anyone could call the whole collection of missions a story.
You know all about the Undine within the first few missions. The Iconians, who should be the big reveal at the end, are unmasked well before that (which kinda makes sense--the last FE was the climax of the story because it was the last content created--it's present place doesn't make any sense at all from a narrative point of view). There are no real recurring characters. There are no mysteries that get encountered early on that build or are slowly revealed.
Some of the missions and short arcs are really nice. But, as an editor, If someone sent me this story as a whole, I wouldn't even send it out to a reader. I'd tell them to make sure one of their parents proofreads it next time, urge them to stay in school, and wish them better luck next time.
Then there is (for me at least) the biggest issue of all--this isn't just Cryptic's story. To compare this to a book or even a TV show misses a fundamental point. Cryptic isn't writing the main character here. I am. That's one of the reasons why they could never really string together one coherent story or include any character development. They don't control the main characters.
This is my story too, and that sort of blurring between those who create and consume content is part of the great Star Trek tradition. It's the twenty-first century--it's silly to try and enforce the storytelling norms of the nineteenth.
Up till now, I've leveled toons in the ways that were best suited to them. Starfleet would have to be nuts to send some of my characters on a few of the story missions--instead they stick to exploration or PvP. I don't see any reason to take that away. It has no impact on the economy, as far as I can tell. I don't pay to be able to skip missions. The only reason I can imagine for chaining missions as a whole so rigidly is to prevent people from complaining that there isn't any content, and I think a better solution to that is, oh I don't know, to create more content.
If it has to be so, then make everyone's first character have to play through the missions in order. But it's pointless to make people do the same thing for every alt or to make folks who've already reached a certain point in the game go back and have to replay episodes.
Starke's crazy idea time: If you absolutely have to have the mission strand, at least unlock missions on our characters so that when we come back to play through, we can pick any mission at any point as a reward.
At this point, I think we can all safely say that this system cannot go live in its current state. If any player who previously skipped a mission is being locked out of all subsequent missions, that could easily send players away from the game completely.
Comments
And as long as I'm being contrary to vocal-minority-opinion, I'd also like to say I think the first 3 FE should be part of the forced story progression, and that I really like where they've put them. It was great facing past-B'Vat in one mission and then present-B'Vat in the next mission... which led back to past-B'Vat again! And the Romulan/Reman FEs flow quite naturally from all the other Romulan missions, and always have. (Spoiler: The Iconians ordered the Romulans to blow up Hobus? And we learned they were working with Borg tech in the same story arc, which was in the game at launch? Duh.)
This game is primarily about story. Doing the story missions out of order (it's currently possible/likely to get missions in the same story arc, out of order, on Holodeck - where the initial Hail says "based on the information you retrieved at X..." and you haven't touched the mission at X yet) can be confusing and frustrating for anyone who, say, actually reads the mission text.
For a game that is primarily about story, it certainly seems quite lacking in this department.
Anyway, isn't there ALREADY a degree of forced story progression in the game as it is now? I mean a Lt. can go fly to DS9 the second he commands his own ship, but he can't pick up the Cardiassion missions from the DS9 CO. Also, isn't the difficulty of the missions adjusted so that unless you're X level, you would be pretty underpowered anyways? I thought that was how it worked on holodeck, I don't see why these natural barriers to excessive skipping aren't sufficient as they are.
IMHO the main problem with the missions as presented on holodeck is that it's just not clear which missions ARE the story missions, and in what order you need to play them to keep consistent since it's possible to "obtain" more than one of them at a time. I remember being rather confused about missions in general when I first started playing STO. However, the mission menu on tribble really is a lot nicer and goes a long ways towards directing new players to play the missions in the right order.
One complaint I have about it though is that reading the missions almost seems spoilerific- if you can readily read the descriptions for every mission and know that 4 missions from now you have to go to planet X to save character Y... it kind of spoils the fun. At least hide the description text for the missions you haven't gotten to yet. Again... you know... for a game primarily about STORY... why spoil it so easily to your players?
Unfortunately if you actually follow the missions, very few of them actually directly call back to a previous one. And the majority of those are already chained on Holodeck! Yes there could be some more chaining in certain areas, but most are fine just as they are.
What this new system does is nothing short of nonsense, linking missions together that aren't even related to the rest of the theme, to say nothing of actually being directly referred to in the storyline. Missions like Researcher Rescue and War is Good for Business have nothing to do with the overall Klingon War storyline. In the Romulan line, the Hirogen missions are all completely stand alone. The Undine episodes were fine the way they were. The Cardassian story episodes were also chained appropriately. The KDF side episodes were already appropriately chained in their small series.
But now they just have one giant ridiculous story arc that adds nothing to the game because the story is not one long chain, neither with the fronts themselves having anything to do with one another, nor inside each front are the missions all related.
Have you watched Star Trek? Even DS9, which had some of the most involved ongoing story arcs, had plenty of random episodes mixed in which did not advance the meta-story. Not every episode of DS9 was about the Dominion War. Not every episode of Voyager had them making huge headway on their way home. TOS and TNG were basically all episodes not related to ... anything. But the episodes still came in a particular order. An episode or two of the ongoing story, an unrelated episode, then back to the ongoing story - is normal. Not just for Star Trek, but for most episodic storytelling. As I've been playing through the story chain on Tribble, I've felt that most episodes had been reasonably well-placed.
I especially liked it when I reached the end of one story mission and turned in some, say, encrypted data, or a prisoner needing interrogation, and instead of immediately *click* the next thing the Admiral says is "after a long interrogation..." or "it was hard work decrypting that, but our analysts say...", I got some unrelated mission to take care of, and when I finished THAT, the interrogation/decryption/whatever had turned up some useful data and a new mission! Yay! So much more satisfying!
Playing 5 weeks of FEs which previously were a week apart each can be disorienting because there are no missions in between them. I would say they should divide up the patrols and insert them into the chain in between the story missions, especially the FEs, so you don't get instant story-jumps like that. Add a little flavor text which is aware of the order of the missions, like "while Star Fleet Intelligence works on that data, would you go check out system X?" would go a long way to enforcing story immersion.
@stormnnorm
I'm divided on the issue of spoilers. On one hand, I work hard not to put spoilers in the descriptions (and on the cover copy) of the books I publish. On the other hand, studies show that being "spoiled" pretty consistently increases people's enjoyment of a story. Which also matches my anecdotal observations, even among people who think they are spoiler-averse.
I'm not sure if that's a bug or what.
Sure sounds like a bug. I haven't tried transferring a character, yet. I'd guess you just need to play the last story episode you have access to? I don't know. Submit it as a bug. Also, probably, put in a GM ticket.
Definitely I'm aware there were plenty of episodes that had nothing to do with any other episode, but you know the series only forced you to watch them all the way through, in order, once, right? To force us into this lockstep for EVERY SINGLE CHARACTER is just mind numbing. It's even worse if you get to level cap and STILL have missions left over, yet you still can't start the Breen series because you haven't done every other episode in game yet. You can run the borg STFs for many levels yet you can't get the last part for the set from Assimilated till who knows when.
In another vein, though, the TV series, in a general sense, did build off every previous episode with character development. This just doesn't exist in a linear pattern for random one off episodes in STO which only involve our personal characters. So to force people into this mold when this is an MMO, not a TV show, and there are supposed to be lots and lots of things to do at any particular point, and multiple leveling paths, this system just breaks down painfully, and doesn't actually make sense.
I can see (though am not really happy about) making someone's first character play through the story missions in order. Locking the story missions for all subsequent playthroughs is kinda like me signing in to Netflix and being told I can't watch such-and-such an episode because I haven't seen all the previous ones in order.
Frankly, a story is more than just a chain of events. There should be something building, recurring characters, themes, etc. There are stories within the missions (and I don't object to those being chained) but I can't see how anyone could call the whole collection of missions a story.
You know all about the Undine within the first few missions. The Iconians, who should be the big reveal at the end, are unmasked well before that (which kinda makes sense--the last FE was the climax of the story because it was the last content created--it's present place doesn't make any sense at all from a narrative point of view). There are no real recurring characters. There are no mysteries that get encountered early on that build or are slowly revealed.
Some of the missions and short arcs are really nice. But, as an editor, If someone sent me this story as a whole, I wouldn't even send it out to a reader. I'd tell them to make sure one of their parents proofreads it next time, urge them to stay in school, and wish them better luck next time.
Then there is (for me at least) the biggest issue of all--this isn't just Cryptic's story. To compare this to a book or even a TV show misses a fundamental point. Cryptic isn't writing the main character here. I am. That's one of the reasons why they could never really string together one coherent story or include any character development. They don't control the main characters.
This is my story too, and that sort of blurring between those who create and consume content is part of the great Star Trek tradition. It's the twenty-first century--it's silly to try and enforce the storytelling norms of the nineteenth.
Up till now, I've leveled toons in the ways that were best suited to them. Starfleet would have to be nuts to send some of my characters on a few of the story missions--instead they stick to exploration or PvP. I don't see any reason to take that away. It has no impact on the economy, as far as I can tell. I don't pay to be able to skip missions. The only reason I can imagine for chaining missions as a whole so rigidly is to prevent people from complaining that there isn't any content, and I think a better solution to that is, oh I don't know, to create more content.
If it has to be so, then make everyone's first character have to play through the missions in order. But it's pointless to make people do the same thing for every alt or to make folks who've already reached a certain point in the game go back and have to replay episodes.
i totally see this happening in that eventuality.