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Dilithium vs Embleme convertion ratio has to be reworked

SystemSystem Member, NoReporting Posts: 178,019 Arc User
On Tribble for the daily missions I will get now 480 Ore (or 1440 Ore for those that were 3 emblems before)
So calculating only the Emblems (870) I got now on Live I should end up with 870 x 480 Ore at least right?
That would be 417'600 Ore but I got only 118'606 Ore and 278'606 Refined = 397'212 together for all my collected badges marks, merit etc not only the emblems!

now here is the complete list what I had and what I got:

Mark of Honor: 15
Mark of Exploration: 74
Mark of Valor: 30
Medal of Excellence: 478
Medal of Distinction: 74
Medal of Commendation: 0
Medal of Bravery: 0
Medal of Achievement: 28
Badge of Exploration, 5th Order: 5591
Badge of Exploration, 4th Order: 20
Badge of Exploration, 3rd Order: 215
Badge of Exploration, 2nd Order: 136
Badge of Exploration, 1st Order: 748
Emblems: 870
Merits: 251'360

...converted to:

Dilithium Ore: 118'606
Refined Dilithium: 278'606

They have to rework the convertion ratio as it is now it seems we wil get frauded. Maybe a Ferengi involved in the convertion and taking the rest himself? :eek:

I expect to get Emblemes exchanged with the exact number the mission payout is now (ie 480 ORE for a daily = 1 emblem)

On top of that a fair ratio for all the rest currencies like Merit 1-5th order badges.....
Post edited by Unknown User on
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Comments

  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited October 2011
    1. 653 Merits
    2. 75 Badge of 1st Explore
    3. 250 Emblems
      85,117 Refined Dilithium
    Yea, a Lt Fed of mine....
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited October 2011
    The only way we will get a fair conversion rate is to create a large enough stink for cryptic to take notice and do something....

    But hey its not like any of us actually had any faith that we would initially get a good conversion rate out of this !!!!!
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited October 2011
    I was expecting a pretty bad conversion rate, since obviously Cryptic don't want people being dilithium millionaires just as the dilithium system is coming out, but this seems to be way too low.

    I've not really been one for grinding dailies, etc, so I have nowhere near as many merits, emblems, badges, etc, as most of the people who have listed their assets on the forums, but even so, I'll be expecting more than the 5k or so dilithium that the numbers on here seem to suggest I'll get.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited October 2011
    So if you got 397k and you decided you needed 417k. 20k off, that's pretty close to your own estimate. Obviously I wished for more dilithium myself during the conversion, but no matter what conversion rate goes live, someone will be butthurt about it. Suck it up or move along (to a different game.) What does a VA with maxed out gear and a free VA ship need with dilithium anyway? To roll around in and feel special?
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited October 2011
    What do ppl expct 1:1 converion rate?

    Every change in economy comes with a devaluation of the current currency.

    Merrits where basically useless now and I am happy that it will be converted to something usefull now.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited October 2011
    I think that people who regularly respec will disagree with merits being useless. It required 20k merits for a single respec. My main "only" had 140k merits gathered up, my alts are lucky to have 60k or so.

    I do think we're entitled to a fair 1:1 conversion rate, since Cryptic wants to reward for the time invested in the game. The missions themselves weren't easier in the past or anything that would justify a conversion that is in favour of them. That means we still spent the same, or even more time, with the old system on doing missions/ dailies compared to the new system. STF's actually got easier now since they're split up in multiple STF's, so if anything we should get rewarded more for the time we spent in the past than what people get now on dilithium.


    Btw, what did merits get converted to? To EC, to (refined) dilithium or was it completely ignored?
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited October 2011
    SeaCadt07 wrote: »
    So if you got 397k and you decided you needed 417k. 20k off, that's pretty close to your own estimate. Obviously I wished for more dilithium myself during the conversion, but no matter what conversion rate goes live, someone will be butthurt about it. Suck it up or move along (to a different game.) What does a VA with maxed out gear and a free VA ship need with dilithium anyway? To roll around in and feel special?

    Alt characters who are poor can use the gear my main can buy for them. It saves me a lot of time having to farm for it again.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited October 2011
    mertis are converted to dil, duno if or or ref.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited October 2011
    The fact that they're not being "open, honest and transparent" with the way the conversion works, leads me to doubt they have any intention of giving us a fair conversion.

    If they want it to be seen as fair, the actual conversion ratios for all of the former currencies/badges/marks needs to be publicly stated. There is only one reason for wanting to keep it secret... Saying it is "a pretty complicated algorithm" and not going into details, is an insult to our intelligence.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited October 2011
    nuh wrote:
    The fact that they're not being "open, honest and transparent" with the way the conversion works, leads me to doubt they have any intention of giving us a fair conversion.

    If they want it to be seen as fair, the actual conversion ratios for all of the former currencies/badges/marks needs to be publicly stated. There is only one reason for wanting to keep it secret... Saying it is "a pretty complicated algorithm" and not going into details, is an insult to our intelligence.

    The problem is, if they are open to it it'll only open up a big discussion to criticise the current system. It's a lose/lose situation.

    I'm okay with the exact algorythm being kept behind, since it's likely too complicated for most people to understand anyway, but I do want to see a fair conversion. Of course it'd help to know just how exactly Cryptic calculates it.

    Basically; I want to be able to buy the same amount of items as I can right now after the conversion is completed. Being able to buy less items than I currently can is something I don't want to see happening. (Naturally you won't hear any arguments if I get to buy more items than I currently can, but that's just simple human nature speaking.) :p
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited October 2011
    Nishka wrote:
    The problem is, if they are open to it it'll only open up a big discussion to criticise the current system. It's a lose/lose situation.

    Not exactly. If they were open about the conversion ratios, and their reasoning about why they chose those levels. They'd have a leg to stand on in their defence. Some would understand why they've done what they've done and help others to see their side too.
    Right now, when someone feels they've been short changed, you can't do you own calcuations to see if that is indeed the case.

    I'm sure there would be a big discussion, I'm sure there would be criticisms (there are criticisms even with them being secretive).. I'm also sure that it would have people willing to defend cryptics choices. I can't see anyone capable of defending cryptic without them being open and transparent about what they're doing.

    I'd call being secretive a "lose/lose" situation, being open, even if the numbers aren't what people expect, would still be slightly better, as it would help some reasonable minded people understand.
    Nishka wrote:
    Basically; I want to be able to buy the same amount of items as I can right now after the conversion is completed.
    I hope when you do these kinds of calculations for yourself, you're not just considering mk XI gear. The other currencies being converted would have got you more than just the number of mk XI gear your emblems would buy. How many respecs can you afford with your new dilithium? How many could you afford on holodeck?
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited October 2011
    if the conversion remains this bad, I am half tempted to buy a bunch of MK XI purple weapons with my thousands of emblems and sell them on the Auction house, when all the new players flood in.

    It seems like the best option, instead of losing half of what I worked for (if not more) in this conversion.

    NOW.. that does not mean I am mad.

    In fact, I understand what Cryptic is trying to do.

    The economy has grown wildly out of control, because of the lack of money sinks and such in the game.

    Prices on the AH are also insane, on a lot of items.

    Energy Credits will have even less meaning now (mostly for buying replicator stuff, misc vendor and such items). Pretty much useless, compared to every other currency. This change of currency basically kicks gold farmers in the berries, making them sit on a large pile of useless "fools gold" in this new economy. Pretty smart actually

    The new system is made to keep the economy in check, by only allowing the effective currency (Dilithium) to grow at 8000 per day. This also rewards the long term players, because they will be the players who will possess the better gear.

    I get it.

    I am for it.

    But it does not mean that I won't spend it before I lose it lol.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited October 2011
    I hope when you do these kinds of calculations for yourself, you're not just considering mk XI gear. The other currencies being converted would have got you more than just the number of mk XI gear your emblems would buy. How many respecs can you afford with your new dilithium? How many could you afford on holodeck?
    I intend to take that all in regards too yes. :)

    Generally I'm supportive/ positive to Cryptic, but I'm not shy of speaking up when I think I'm getting the dirty end of the stick either.

    Right now I want to be careful in my responses here, since I haven't had a chance yet to check things out for myself. I also realise that it's all subject to change, so currently there is no reason to get angry at Cryptic or so. Being reasonable will get us a lot further. As long as you can put up good arguments and reasons of why you think a certain way then Cryptic can do something with our feedback.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited October 2011
    if the conversion remains this bad, I am half tempted to buy a bunch of MK XI purple weapons with my thousands of emblems and sell them on the Auction house, when all the new players flood in.

    ...

    But it does not mean that I won't spend it before I lose it lol.

    I don't see any reason why anybody would have to lose. If Cryptic gives a fair exchange rate they'll be hurting the economy far less in the end. If everybody decides to buy items now and sell them to new players then those items won't be worth a lot of money. Either way you're still gonna lose out.

    If we get a fair conversion then people will not be flooding the Exchange with massive amounts of items, or having to hoard a lot of items in their banks. Instead they'll just get them when they need them, or sell them when they feel like they need some extra cash. Overall the impact on the economy will be far less destructive that way.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited October 2011
    Nishka wrote:
    I don't see any reason why anybody would have to lose. If Cryptic gives a fair exchange rate they'll be hurting the economy far less in the end. If everybody decides to buy items now and sell them to new players then those items won't be worth a lot of money. Either way you're still gonna lose out.

    If we get a fair conversion then people will not be flooding the Exchange with massive amounts of items, or having to hoard a lot of items in their banks. Instead they'll just get them when they need them, or sell them when they feel like they need some extra cash. Overall the impact on the economy will be far less destructive that way.

    Oh, I never said the conversion was good.

    I just said that there was a work around, if you get creative.

    Now, as far as what I DO approve of, it is the cap on how much Dilithium you can get per day. I also am a fan of the idea that purple gear takes a long time to get. Frankly it has been too easy to max level/gear your character in this game. It takes a couple of days at most.

    Yes, I think the conversion should at least be a 1 : 1 conversion as it sits on tribble. Something like 480 dilithium per emblem for starters. Otherwise, you are getting cheated for your effort.

    But I agree,.. the numbers need to be revamped. Emblems = Dilithium and the others can become Raw Dilithium. I think it would be nice to have some extra Raw Dilithium sitting there,.. for those days you don't want to do dailies or can't. Just log in, press convert.. log out.

    Works for me.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited October 2011
    Lets say Cryptic feels the need to limit the influx of converted refined dilithium, in order to "protect" their new economy. That could been seen as reasonable argument not to convert every sum to refined dilithium.

    However this still doesn't justify to cut everything players earned down drastically. If they don't want to give the full amount players earned over their playtime in refined dilithium, they should at least give it as dilithium ore - with some markup as compensation for not being able to spend it immediately.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited October 2011
    But I agree,.. the numbers need to be revamped. Emblems = Dilithium and the others can become Raw Dilithium. I think it would be nice to have some extra Raw Dilithium sitting there,.. for those days you don't want to do dailies or can't. Just log in, press convert.. log out.
    That wouldn't exactly be fair. Emblems got added in way later, originally they didn't even exist, making many people farm the badges instead. I still spent a good amount of time grinding those badges. It got so bad in the end that the mere thought of entering B'Tran again was starting to give me daymares (it's like a nightmare, but then when you're awake). At that point I decided never to grind those badges again and it took me about a year before entering B'Tran on an alt. :p

    Now you seriously didn't mean to say that those efforts should get turned into raw ore, do you? ;)
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited October 2011
    currently on holo i have

    Merits = 583644
    Marks of Honour = 2
    Marks of exploration = 116
    Marks of excellence = 20857
    Marks of distinction = 23
    5th = 12881
    4th = 173
    3rd = 3116
    2nd = 326
    1st = 226

    EMBLEMS = 2268

    And for that collection of resources since the beginning of the game (2years ish) i get

    384000 Ore
    650794 refined

    To me it can on be two things.

    1 - A bug that is causing serious conversion errors

    2 - we are being seriously short changed for our time spent playing the game.

    I personally keeping my fingers crossed its a bug in conversion rates because if its not im going to be seriously peed off with them obviously not believing my/our time and hard work in game means that little.

    Just on my tribble char i have nearly 40K refined from 2 weeks. So to me the maths don't compute.

    with that amount of dilithium i cant buy jack. Before my resources would of got me anything i wanted when i wanted without even denting my pot. But now my pot of dilithium would probably only get me a couple of ships and weapons. Couldn't change load outs when i wanted now and respec when i wanted with my ,merits. whre the hell has the in game payment of respecs gone?.

    Feels like the artful dodger has pulled my pants down and left with my stuff.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited October 2011
    Schneemann wrote: »
    Lets say Cryptic feels the need to limit the influx of converted refined dilithium, in order to "protect" their new economy. That could been seen as reasonable argument not to convert every sum to refined dilithium.

    However this still doesn't justify to cut everything players earned down drastically. If they don't want to give the full amount players earned over their playtime in refined dilithium, they should at least give it as dilithium ore - with some markup as compensation for not being able to spend it immediately.

    No matter what approach they take to it, the economy will take a big hit the first couple of months anyway, until the system balances itself out and adjusts to the new conditions.

    I only wish that Cryptic will take the least disruptive route for the current player base to do so. I think that the 8k/ day limit will be enough protection for the new economy as it is. Additional protections that hurt the efforts players already put in the game shouldn't be added. If the economy gets a couple of months to rebalance itself then we'll have a better system afterwards than if a lot of additional protection mechanisms are introduced.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited October 2011
    SeaCadt07 wrote: »
    So if you got 397k and you decided you needed 417k. 20k off, that's pretty close to your own estimate. Obviously I wished for more dilithium myself during the conversion, but no matter what conversion rate goes live, someone will be butthurt about it. Suck it up or move along (to a different game.) What does a VA with maxed out gear and a free VA ship need with dilithium anyway? To roll around in and feel special?

    Not at all close! 20k short if you only take ore and emblemes into calculation. What happens to all the merit badges marks? Stolen by a Ferengi? :rolleyes:
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited October 2011
    what the heck r u guys moaning about

    grinding emblem weapons is now only slower if u did ALL the dailies every day and faster if u get dilithium ore in an efficient way.

    proof:

    emblem dailies:

    deferi - 5 emblems - takes about 40-60 mins
    traelus + defence contract - 2 emblems - about 15-20 mins
    btran daily + exploration - 4 emblems - about 30-45 mins, depending on the missions u get
    foundry daily - 3 emblems - freebies - 20-30 seconds
    pvp dailies (which don't work every day, if i might add):

    all give 3 emblems:

    arena: 15-60 mins
    cnh: 30-70+ mins
    kerrat / otha: 20-40 mins

    so...

    20 emblems for...

    170-excess of 250 mins

    so u get 2/3 an emblem weapon if u play for nearly 3 hours (or considerably more, depending on pvp ques, lagg, if ur doing anything else, etc.)



    now with dilithium:

    emblem weapon costs 22,600 dilithium, roughly

    u can get a max of 8k dilithium from ore
    + a few dailies give refined dilithium
    let's say for now that u get 8k ore and no refined dili, thats 8/22 of a weapon, aka roughly 37%, u get one in
    3 days (ground things cost 11k only, so the ground weapons are actually faster to get now)

    the trick here is:

    i've got 8k dilithium ore in 40 mins flat. not gonna say how, but if u have a good team, u don't have to pvp, u won't have to join public ques and there's other rewards besides dilithium.

    so for... 180 mins of gameplay i now get... more than 28k dilithium ore (more than an emblem weapon, compared to 2/3 of an emblem weapon)

    so, the obtaining of ore is faster, the obtaining of refined dilithium is slower, DEAL with it.

    and honestly, did u get 20 emblems every day?

    while i give u another point:

    during the weekend, play for 6 hours, get 50k or so dilithium ore, 50/8>6 (for a full week quota, 54k) and u don't have to grind EVERY day, but just come on, click a button and go off.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited October 2011
    I agree Maz

    Personally I look forward to not ever doing PvP dailies again. In fact, I think the refining thing will be very relaxing for me and shorten the daily grind.

    It will destroy the PvP queues, for those of us fed up with doing pvp dailies for emblems, but that is not my problem any more.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited October 2011
    the trick here is:

    i've got 8k dilithium ore in 40 mins flat. not gonna say how, but if u have a good team, u don't have to pvp, u won't have to join public ques and there's other rewards besides dilithium.

    so for... 180 mins of gameplay i now get... more than 28k dilithium ore (more than an emblem weapon, compared to 2/3 of an emblem weapon)

    so, the obtaining of ore is faster, the obtaining of refined dilithium is slower, DEAL with it.
    No offense, but your reasoning is off. You mention solo ways for getting a certain amount of emblems take X amount of time, then you say that a grouping up way takes way faster to get X amount of dilithium.

    If you want to make a fair calculcation then compare it with solo farming in the new system too. Otherwise it's a good post and interesting read though, but comparing apples with oranges doesn't work.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited October 2011
    Mazimer wrote:
    what the heck r u guys moaning about

    grinding emblem weapons is now only slower if u did ALL the dailies every day and faster if u get dilithium ore in an efficient way.

    *snip*


    what we can do in future to obtain dilithium has nothing to do with how they convert the current currencies
    allready earned.
    If you can get more items faster in future.... fine. But aint that another point not to devalue the current earned currencies.
    So what you say is that get more in future and even faster.. so its fine to give us even less value for allready done stuff? wierd logic tbh :confused:
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited October 2011
    Gotta have to agree with you on that one Obi.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited October 2011
    Funny I distinctly remember that "Anything a player has already earned in game will not be taken away from them"

    I guess this doesn't go for emblems and badge currencies. It appears everyone is taking around a 30% loss on stuff previously earned when its converted.


    Is anyone actually surprised that Cryptic is TRIBBLE over loyal paying customers? We should have seen this coming as soon as the c-store prices went up exactly the amount the monthly stipend is going to be.


    I know its a business but don't all of the sudden rob me simply because you feel i've been playing and earning too much for the previous 628.33 days.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited October 2011
    It's still just the test server. This conversion didn't happen yet on Holodeck and I'm sure that based on our feedback adjustments will be made.

    Have a lil more faith, we saw other stuff getting adjusted too in the test cycle.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited October 2011
    Perhaps, but did they learn nothing from the whole dilithium pricing fiasco that was only what, like a week or two ago? I mean come on, you're 10x too high on the dilithium price of items, then when you implement character transfer you again shortchange the players on conversion rate?

    It's not really "adjusting" at that point, it's seeing how much you can get away with.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited October 2011
    meehee wrote: »
    The only way we will get a fair conversion rate is to create a large enough stink for cryptic to take notice and do something....

    But hey its not like any of us actually had any faith that we would initially get a good conversion rate out of this !!!!!

    LIke its worked so well for us in the past doing that? LOL But I do agree with your second line :)
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited October 2011
    where i'm from, we say '' clean bills, makes good friends''. because we aren't friends ''cryptic and subscribers'', we are ''business and costumers'', i would say '' clean bills, makes good business relations'', but still this isn't a clean bill !!!!!
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