The only chance it has of changing is if people continue to resist and are vocal about it.
Thats the only way to get results.
But instead of just resisting and being vocal about it, how about providing an alternative solution to the problem? While you consider your solution, please bear in mind:
STO is going F2P, therefore, PW will be more interested in getting people into the C-Store to buy things since they will be making less from subscriptions.
You will not be getting any tokens for VA rank ships. At least this is very highly unlikely.
Yeah, I'll admit I would prefer this as opposed to trading with players for C-Store points, but that defeats the point of having people buying C-Store points in the first place if you could just make them in game.
How do you figure?
I know an extreme successful MMORPG by Turbine that went Free 2 Play a while back.
They actually allow people to earn vast quantities of Turbine Points In-Game over time, and they still make a killing "selling" turbine points!
They could have an NPC which you could sell your C-Points for a set rate of dilithium.
Players could buy C-Points from said NPC for a set rate of dilithium. But the NPC could only sell C-Points it has, and if it runs out, there aren't any more available until someone goes on to sell their C-Points.
Having an NPC middleman trader would make all the difference.
With players controlling the exchange rate, you can expect to see far worse returns than the 200:1 ratio I so optimistically calculated.
Having an NPC to trade your dilithium for C-Store points would be great, but it would defeat the point of getting people to buy points for the C-Store, so unfortunately, I can't see this happening.
What I would like to see instead, is having an NPC who runs a set-rate dilithium/C-point exchange. The rates are still fixed, but it is actual players trading in their resources.
Also, you mentioned earlier about people holding out for a better than 200:1 exchange, on the grounds that the C-Store ships are account bound instead of character bound. This would work both ways though. if someone has already unlocked the VA ship they want, they are going to want dilithium more than the C-Store points so they can outfit it.
This is why i believe a reasonable balance can be achieved.
But instead of just resisting and being vocal about it, how about providing an alternative solution to the problem? While you consider your solution, please bear in mind:
STO is going F2P, therefore, PW will be more interested in getting people into the C-Store to buy things since they will be making less from subscriptions.
You will not be getting any tokens for VA rank ships. At least this is very highly unlikely.
Why do I need to provide an alternative solution when the solution alread is on holodeck? the system wroks.
And the going F2P excuse is just silly.
They will definitely be making less from subscriptions if they do not provide a worthy incentive to actually be subscribed.
But they will also make A LOT of money on the free players buying the occasional unlock and what not.
They will however loose A LOT of money by tring to fleece their subscribers and loyal player base.
And they should make players "want" to spend money in the C-Store, not make them feel "pressured" to do so, which is exactly what TRIBBLE like this does.
Customers are like sand, if you have a firm but gentle grip the sand remains in your hand.
But if you tighten your grip, the sand slips right through your fingers.
How do you figure?
I know an extreme successful MMORPG by Turbine that went Free 2 Play a while back.
They actually allow people to earn vast quantities of Turbine Points In-Game over time, and they still make a killing "selling" turbine points!
Which MMO was it? Also, did it start life as pay-to-play with microtransaction store already in place, or did it introduce the store when it went F2P? And what do you mean by 'vast'?
If they were going to have this kind of trading in STO between a player and an NPC, then the exchange rate would be awful. As I understand it, PW very much go for the pay to win business model (another reason why VA ships are C-Store only), so it is unlikely they will allow too much in game that circumnavigates having to buy C-Store points, yet allows you to buy from the C-Store.
The only chance it has of changing is if people continue to resist and are vocal about it.
Thats the only way to get results.
I don't have a problem with people being vocal. I have a problem with people being unreasonable. We all want a great Star Trek experience here and a lack of constructive criticism helps no one. To be honest, I'm quite tired of pulling up thread after thread of people just criticizing without providing potential solutions (and no, getting everything for free just because you're a subscriber isn't a potential solution because it's removes the point of playing the game). I want to see people attempting to understand the motives of the developers without just passing off their perceived unwelcome changes as a threat and a reach for our wallets. I get it, they need cash to keep feeding their families... don't assume that any of these guys are getting rich off our micropayments.
That's why we're here on the test server. To work together on our mutual goal. We're working on Star Trek TOGETHER. We have a whole audience of people just waiting for us to be done with the test server so they can jump into live and experience our work here with fresh eyes and I don't want them to be greeted with jaded malcontents. Imagine if you will the first time seeing Earth Spacedock over Earth. The first time saving the crew of the S.S. Azura. The first time fighting the Doomsday Device. The first time walking the gardens of Starfleet Academy. Just the other day I got first place in the Bat'leth tournament and I was literally jumping for joy (I've been playing over a year now and yeah...)
Anyways, I'm way off topic but I really wanted to say that. Have a nice day!
Why do I need to provide an alternative solution when the solution alread is on holodeck? the system wroks.
And the going F2P excuse is just silly.
They will definitely be making less from subscriptions if they do not provide a worthy incentive to actually be subscribed.
But they will also make A LOT of money on the free players buying the occasional unlock and what not.
They will however loose A LOT of money by tring to fleece their subscribers and loyal player base.
And they should make players "want" to spend money in the C-Store, not make them feel "pressured" to do so, which is exactly what TRIBBLE like this does.
Customers are like sand, if you have a firm but gentle grip the sand remains in your hand.
But if you tighten your grip, the sand slips right through your fingers.
So, you don't have an alternative solution then?
Look at the number of subscribers STO has currently. Now please explain to me why those people haven't already left due to being fleeced by the C-Store. If you go and look at the items in the C-Store, other than the services and the costumes, each item gives an in-game advantage that people who don't spend at the C-Store do not have.
Look at the number of subscribers STO has currently. Now please explain to me why those people haven't already left due to being fleeced by the C-Store. If you go and look at the items in the C-Store, other than the services and the costumes, each item gives an in-game advantage that people who don't spend at the C-Store do not have.
I don't think you read my posts properly.
I said the solution is already there right in front of everyones noses, its what we have in-game on holodeck right now.
At present all but a select few C-Store ships are obtainable in-game, this is enough for many people.
But people are not going to stand for being forced to "pay" for an endgame ship, a ship that we are entitled to when we reach Vice Admiral and which is what our subscriptions pay for.
And who can blame them? Its wrong and no AAA MMORPG does TRIBBLE like that.
Which MMO was it? Also, did it start life as pay-to-play with microtransaction store already in place, or did it introduce the store when it went F2P? And what do you mean by 'vast'?
If they were going to have this kind of trading in STO between a player and an NPC, then the exchange rate would be awful. As I understand it, PW very much go for the pay to win business model (another reason why VA ships are C-Store only), so it is unlikely they will allow too much in game that circumnavigates having to buy C-Store points, yet allows you to buy from the C-Store.
It was LOTRO and it's not really VAST amounts of TP... it's more like 5 here, 10 there... at most maybe 20 for achieving some Deeds. It didn't start as F2P and it didn't have the microtransaction store to start with.
Same thing with DDO (but DDO didn't give out free TP). They're both examples of games that became really successful after going F2P (especially DDO). LOTRO was an amazing game before, but now the community just exploded.
VA ships aren't auto win... I much prefer my Assault Cruiser to the Exploration Retrofit. The "pay to win" perspective being applied here is rather... silly. Also, selling power for cash is plain dumb. Nothing you get from the C-Store drastically changes the power balance at all. Sure, the Prometheus refit is cool, but it doesn't dramatically change the PvP environment. Likewise with these consoles that they're going to offer with the C-Store ships... none of them really change much at all (although I am envious of my friend's pre-order Tactical turret console since it automatically shoots down high yields and stuff).
It was LOTRO and it's not really VAST amounts of TP... it's more like 5 here, 10 there... at most maybe 20 for achieving some Deeds. It didn't start as F2P and it didn't have the microtransaction store to start with.
Actually per deed it does not award much though, but you do end up with a nifty little sum when you keep at grinding the deeds.
Plus many deeds are increase your virtues and makes your characters "better" so your actually rewarded in double.
Plus LOTRO does not fleece their subscribers like Cryptic is trying to do with STO.
It was LOTRO and it's not really VAST amounts of TP... it's more like 5 here, 10 there... at most maybe 20 for achieving some Deeds. It didn't start as F2P and it didn't have the microtransaction store to start with.
Same thing with DDO (but DDO didn't give out free TP). They're both examples of games that became really successful after going F2P (especially DDO). LOTRO was an amazing game before, but now the community just exploded.
VA ships aren't auto win... I much prefer my Assault Cruiser to the Exploration Retrofit. The "pay to win" perspective being applied here is rather... silly. Also, selling power for cash is plain dumb. Nothing you get from the C-Store drastically changes the power balance at all. Sure, the Prometheus refit is cool, but it doesn't dramatically change the PvP environment. Likewise with these consoles that they're going to offer with the C-Store ships... none of them really change much at all (although I am envious of my friend's pre-order Tactical turret console since it automatically shoots down high yields and stuff).
Yea i agree with you here that has been one of my pet peaves on the forums that alot of pvp people complain about every new item that comes out and even before they come out, and to be honest i have probably all the new ship stuff that has come out and from my useing them i realy dont get how there pay to win cause unless i am useing them wrong there fun toys they add a bit more joy to the game but all of them so fare from being pay to wins items that i just dont see it i havent seen one that was an ultimate weapon that when i use i win, huurrrayyyyy !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! lol
I don't think you read my posts properly.
I said the solution is already there right in front of everyones noses, its what we have in-game on holodeck right now.
At present all but a select few C-Store ships are obtainable in-game, this is enough for many people.
But people are not going to stand for being forced to "pay" for an endgame ship, a ship that we are entitled to when we reach Vice Admiral and which is what our subscriptions pay for.
And who can blame them? Its wrong and no AAA MMORPG does TRIBBLE like that.
Okay, so your position is that you believe we should get a free VA ship when we reach VA just like it is now on Holodeck. The resistance you have is that you don't want to spend money/in-game resources to pay for something that you currently get for free. I would like to point out that I feel that you have a valid point and I'm just trying to present a different approach.
I'm quite sure that if we look around enough we can find a game that does stuff like make you pay for content you used to get for free. That said, you're not forced to pay for these VA ships. They're not significantly better than the RA ships. The Tactical Retrofit has a cloaking device... they're essentially spending the spare engineering/science console slot and spare crew on a cloak that only works some of the time and isn't game breaking as it's simple enough to thwart (also, it only really gives a 5 second bonus to damage that can be avoided by turning on Reverse Shield Polarity or any number of damage reduction abilities). The Science retrofit gets an ability that lets them ignore 90% of incoming damage... for a few seconds. They can still die while like that and they can't shoot back. The Exploration retrofit gives them saucer separation (again, really not super significant even if it is super cool).
If you want one, you can get one. It's not impossible. It's also not unreasonable for them to request that you start paying for something that was once free. Everything is subject to change after all (I believe it's in the EULA).
Actually per deed it does not award much though, but you do end up with a nifty little sum when you keep at grinding the deeds.
Plus many deeds are increase your virtues and makes your characters "better" so your actually rewarded in double.
Plus LOTRO does not fleece their subscribers like Cryptic is trying to do with STO.
How have we been fleeced? I don't feel that way and I've been a F2P for LOTRO, a Subscriber to DDO, a Subscriber to SWG and many more.
In fact, as a F2P for LOTRO, I've thrown money at it to pay for the things my subscriber friends got for free. Those free TPs don't pay for enough and I had to bolster it with $20 here and $20 there just to keep pace. I like having all the traits, but each one is 95 points and you're allowed TWO max per category as a F2P. You pay 95 TP per character per trait and only have access to two initially? I was okay with it because it was my choice to not subscribe (but I did limit myself to a grand whopping three characters ever and only a couple of them have ever spent my TP on traits).
It is their legal right to change it yes(which is why I am not pursuing a lawsuit).
But is it reasonable? No absolutely not, not if you actually value your customers and subscribers.
How have we been fleeced? I don't feel that way and I've been a F2P for LOTRO, a Subscriber to DDO, a Subscriber to SWG and many more.
Might want to pay attention to the grammar, as i was not talking in past-tense.
I.E We have not be fleeced yet, but some of us will be as well as future players, who will be forced to pay for the Vice Admiral ships instead of even getting a free chioce at one as they are entitled to as subscribers.
I don't think you read my posts properly.
I said the solution is already there right in front of everyones noses, its what we have in-game on holodeck right now.
At present all but a select few C-Store ships are obtainable in-game, this is enough for many people.
But people are not going to stand for being forced to "pay" for an endgame ship, a ship that we are entitled to when we reach Vice Admiral and which is what our subscriptions pay for.
And who can blame them? Its wrong and no AAA MMORPG does TRIBBLE like that.
The only people being forced to "pay" for an endgame ship are the silver players. As I have already pointed out, there are other ways for us to gain the C-Store points needed for our VA ships.
And STO might like to be a AAA MMO, but I don't think it is there yet.
Im happy that they have finally seen the light and let us have the ship tokens,and I dont even mind that you dont get a tokenfor a va ship.
I have allready bought any va ships that I am likely to use and I mostly use ra ships at va anyways, so it does not bother me.
They still need to look at dilithium pricing though, they are way out of hand!
I maintain, no one is FORCED to buy VA ships in this proposed model. You can do just fine without them. The only real things they contribute to the game is the fact that they're all "Coolness +5" ships.
I don't think you read my posts properly.
I said the solution is already there right in front of everyones noses, its what we have in-game on holodeck right now.
At present all but a select few C-Store ships are obtainable in-game, this is enough for many people.
But people are not going to stand for being forced to "pay" for an endgame ship, a ship that we are entitled to when we reach Vice Admiral and which is what our subscriptions pay for.
And who can blame them? Its wrong and no AAA MMORPG does TRIBBLE like that.
The only people being forced to "pay" for an endgame ship are the silver players. As I have already pointed out, there are other ways for us to gain the C-Store points needed for our VA ships.
And STO might like to be a AAA MMO, but I don't think it is there yet.
Invalid, "someone" still pays for those C-Points.
The only acceptable compromise is an additional direct conversion from Dilithium to C-Points at a fixed reasonable rate.
I maintain, no one is FORCED to buy VA ships in this proposed model. You can do just fine without them. The only real things they contribute to the game is the fact that they're all "Coolness +5" ships.
Not paying attention to my grammar again eh?
Your right, nobody is forced to buy VA ships, however people are forced to pay for "endgame" ships, endgame being signified that they are tied to the highest rank.
They are also part of the reward for reaching Vice Admiral and one of the primary leveling goals which they are now taking away.
And i disagree completely, in competent hands the Vice Admiral ships give a huge tactical advantage.
A retrofit Galaxy can in an instant convert itself into an Escort and start maneuvring in ways no other ship in the game can.
The Defiant is at present(on holodeck) also the ONLY federation ship with a Cloaking device obtainable through nomal gameplay.
The Prometheus, while not obtainable with a token but can be ground for, has a turning rate that even surpasses BoP's when seperated.
HI! I dont post on here often, but i would just like to say, people may be forgetting that the enterprise-f will be a vice admiral lvl ship that you CAN earn ingame, so you dont need to use the cstore if you dont want to, daniel stahl himself said that the enterprise-f can and will be earned 'in-game' only.
HI! I dont post on here often, but i would just like to say, people may be forgetting that the enterprise-f will be a vice admiral lvl ship that you CAN earn ingame, so you dont need to use the cstore if you dont want to, daniel stahl himself said that the enterprise-f can and will be earned 'in-game' only.
Key phrase here being "daniel stahl himself said"
There are several things that "he said" that the new management seem to be unraveling and doing completely the opposite.
Daniel Stahl said prices would be going down, not up.
Daniel Stahl said that eventually ALL ships would be obtainable through in-game means, not be C-Store exclusives.
Daniel Stah said that we would not loose anything with F2P, not that we would have to fight to keep what we have at present.
So quite frankly, I don't put a lot of stock in Cryptic honoring past claims and commitments anymore.
HI! I dont post on here often, but i would just like to say, people may be forgetting that the enterprise-f will be a vice admiral lvl ship that you CAN earn ingame, so you dont need to use the cstore if you dont want to, daniel stahl himself said that the enterprise-f can and will be earned 'in-game' only.
Dstahl said alot of things, but he is no longer with the company, so they don't hve to do anything he said, like pay walls for example, he said there would be no pay walls, he said it many times.
No more VA ships unless u pay for it, is a pay wall.
Not paying attention to my grammar again eh?
Your right, nobody is forced to buy VA ships, however people are forced to pay for "endgame" ships, endgame being signified that they are tied to the highest rank.
They are also part of the reward for reaching Vice Admiral and one of the primary leveling goals which they are now taking away.
And i disagree completely, in competent hands the Vice Admiral ships give a huge tactical advantage.
A retrofit Galaxy can in an instant convert itself into an Escort and start maneuvring in ways no other ship in the game can.
The Defiant is at present(on holodeck) also the ONLY federation ship with a Cloaking device obtainable through nomal gameplay.
The Prometheus, while not obtainable with a token but can be ground for, has a turning rate that even surpasses BoP's when seperated.
We might as well speak in the past tense as they're probably not going to be changing anything about it until AFTER it's implemented on Tribble. We're also presuming everything is set in stone with this mechanism. Hence the length of this discussion. Plus, if you're poking at my grammar, then your spelling is up for grabs. Further, citing the Prometheus MVAM is a bit silly since it's only been available via grinding or C-Store purchasing and this discussion is about the VA specific ships that are only kind of available for free on Holodeck (I say "kind of" because you only get ONE for free).
It will always come down to "competent hands". In my hands, I'm better in my cloaking Defiant than my friend with his cloaking Defiant. In my hands, my Sovereign Assault Cruiser can't be defeated by my friend in his RA Escort (I think it's an Advanced) or even in his Intrepid retrofit.
The VA ships are opportunities to have neat abilities. My position on this is that whereas they are cool and whereas they're "endgame", they're not overpowered, they're not game breaking, and they're well balanced compared to their RA counterparts. This has nothing to do with player skill, it has everything to do with player access and opportunity. If someone wants the VA ships, they will find a way to get them. Essentially the VA special ships are just another set of RA ships right now. When/if they ever get special consoles to go with them, maybe that will change, I don't know.
As an aside, I think being allowed to test drive the fancy ships for a bit would be nice. I'm not sure how this would be implemented, but I'd like to try out the Prometheus MVAM before buying it and discovering I wasted my time/resources on it because it's not what I thought it would be. They could totally borrow Stan from the Monkey Island series to let us test-drive ships. 30 minutes is all I ask!
I am not happy with the VA ship token takeaway, but its a compromise, and to be honest I usually use the Rear admiral ships like Fleet escort or assault cruiser anyway, or have a c-store ship unlocked already like the D'kyr and the Excelsior.
Oh, and I saw the "c-store ships will still be account wide" thingie. Thanks for that.
They are looking for solutions to the VA ship problem, the C-store ships (that we currently recieve for free) are already the +1 model. The solution would be to release 3 non-special ships at that rank.
Solverign Refit (+1 BO to eng slot)
Surak Class (mentioned in show never shown, should have entered service toward the end of DS9, making it new than the Defiant) (+1 BO to Tact Slot)
Ronin Class (This is a smaller version of the Solvergin class with its main goal is scientific exploration) (+1 BO to Sci slot)
There are several things that "he said" that the new management seem to be unraveling and doing completely the opposite.
Daniel Stahl said prices would be going down, not up.
Daniel Stahl said that eventually ALL ships would be obtainable through in-game means, not be C-Store exclusives.
Daniel Stah said that we would not loose anything with F2P, not that we would have to fight to keep what we have at present.
So quite frankly, I don't put a lot of stock in Cryptic honoring past claims and commitments anymore.
Sure, I understand what you guys are saying here, and I agree to a point, but lets remember that at least for a moment, they haven't vocally changed this either, so at least this still COULD be a possibility.
Comments
But instead of just resisting and being vocal about it, how about providing an alternative solution to the problem? While you consider your solution, please bear in mind:
STO is going F2P, therefore, PW will be more interested in getting people into the C-Store to buy things since they will be making less from subscriptions.
You will not be getting any tokens for VA rank ships. At least this is very highly unlikely.
How do you figure?
I know an extreme successful MMORPG by Turbine that went Free 2 Play a while back.
They actually allow people to earn vast quantities of Turbine Points In-Game over time, and they still make a killing "selling" turbine points!
Having an NPC to trade your dilithium for C-Store points would be great, but it would defeat the point of getting people to buy points for the C-Store, so unfortunately, I can't see this happening.
What I would like to see instead, is having an NPC who runs a set-rate dilithium/C-point exchange. The rates are still fixed, but it is actual players trading in their resources.
Also, you mentioned earlier about people holding out for a better than 200:1 exchange, on the grounds that the C-Store ships are account bound instead of character bound. This would work both ways though. if someone has already unlocked the VA ship they want, they are going to want dilithium more than the C-Store points so they can outfit it.
This is why i believe a reasonable balance can be achieved.
Why do I need to provide an alternative solution when the solution alread is on holodeck? the system wroks.
And the going F2P excuse is just silly.
They will definitely be making less from subscriptions if they do not provide a worthy incentive to actually be subscribed.
But they will also make A LOT of money on the free players buying the occasional unlock and what not.
They will however loose A LOT of money by tring to fleece their subscribers and loyal player base.
And they should make players "want" to spend money in the C-Store, not make them feel "pressured" to do so, which is exactly what TRIBBLE like this does.
Customers are like sand, if you have a firm but gentle grip the sand remains in your hand.
But if you tighten your grip, the sand slips right through your fingers.
Which MMO was it? Also, did it start life as pay-to-play with microtransaction store already in place, or did it introduce the store when it went F2P? And what do you mean by 'vast'?
If they were going to have this kind of trading in STO between a player and an NPC, then the exchange rate would be awful. As I understand it, PW very much go for the pay to win business model (another reason why VA ships are C-Store only), so it is unlikely they will allow too much in game that circumnavigates having to buy C-Store points, yet allows you to buy from the C-Store.
I just made Lt-Cmndr, and I got Two Ships, One with Token, and One with Dilithium.
I don't have a problem with people being vocal. I have a problem with people being unreasonable. We all want a great Star Trek experience here and a lack of constructive criticism helps no one. To be honest, I'm quite tired of pulling up thread after thread of people just criticizing without providing potential solutions (and no, getting everything for free just because you're a subscriber isn't a potential solution because it's removes the point of playing the game). I want to see people attempting to understand the motives of the developers without just passing off their perceived unwelcome changes as a threat and a reach for our wallets. I get it, they need cash to keep feeding their families... don't assume that any of these guys are getting rich off our micropayments.
That's why we're here on the test server. To work together on our mutual goal. We're working on Star Trek TOGETHER. We have a whole audience of people just waiting for us to be done with the test server so they can jump into live and experience our work here with fresh eyes and I don't want them to be greeted with jaded malcontents. Imagine if you will the first time seeing Earth Spacedock over Earth. The first time saving the crew of the S.S. Azura. The first time fighting the Doomsday Device. The first time walking the gardens of Starfleet Academy. Just the other day I got first place in the Bat'leth tournament and I was literally jumping for joy (I've been playing over a year now and yeah...)
Anyways, I'm way off topic but I really wanted to say that. Have a nice day!
So, you don't have an alternative solution then?
Look at the number of subscribers STO has currently. Now please explain to me why those people haven't already left due to being fleeced by the C-Store. If you go and look at the items in the C-Store, other than the services and the costumes, each item gives an in-game advantage that people who don't spend at the C-Store do not have.
I don't think you read my posts properly.
I said the solution is already there right in front of everyones noses, its what we have in-game on holodeck right now.
At present all but a select few C-Store ships are obtainable in-game, this is enough for many people.
But people are not going to stand for being forced to "pay" for an endgame ship, a ship that we are entitled to when we reach Vice Admiral and which is what our subscriptions pay for.
And who can blame them? Its wrong and no AAA MMORPG does TRIBBLE like that.
It was LOTRO and it's not really VAST amounts of TP... it's more like 5 here, 10 there... at most maybe 20 for achieving some Deeds. It didn't start as F2P and it didn't have the microtransaction store to start with.
Same thing with DDO (but DDO didn't give out free TP). They're both examples of games that became really successful after going F2P (especially DDO). LOTRO was an amazing game before, but now the community just exploded.
VA ships aren't auto win... I much prefer my Assault Cruiser to the Exploration Retrofit. The "pay to win" perspective being applied here is rather... silly. Also, selling power for cash is plain dumb. Nothing you get from the C-Store drastically changes the power balance at all. Sure, the Prometheus refit is cool, but it doesn't dramatically change the PvP environment. Likewise with these consoles that they're going to offer with the C-Store ships... none of them really change much at all (although I am envious of my friend's pre-order Tactical turret console since it automatically shoots down high yields and stuff).
I am hopeing you are correct, and that they will, here are fingers crossed lol
Actually per deed it does not award much though, but you do end up with a nifty little sum when you keep at grinding the deeds.
Plus many deeds are increase your virtues and makes your characters "better" so your actually rewarded in double.
Plus LOTRO does not fleece their subscribers like Cryptic is trying to do with STO.
Yea i agree with you here that has been one of my pet peaves on the forums that alot of pvp people complain about every new item that comes out and even before they come out, and to be honest i have probably all the new ship stuff that has come out and from my useing them i realy dont get how there pay to win cause unless i am useing them wrong there fun toys they add a bit more joy to the game but all of them so fare from being pay to wins items that i just dont see it i havent seen one that was an ultimate weapon that when i use i win, huurrrayyyyy !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! lol
Okay, so your position is that you believe we should get a free VA ship when we reach VA just like it is now on Holodeck. The resistance you have is that you don't want to spend money/in-game resources to pay for something that you currently get for free. I would like to point out that I feel that you have a valid point and I'm just trying to present a different approach.
I'm quite sure that if we look around enough we can find a game that does stuff like make you pay for content you used to get for free. That said, you're not forced to pay for these VA ships. They're not significantly better than the RA ships. The Tactical Retrofit has a cloaking device... they're essentially spending the spare engineering/science console slot and spare crew on a cloak that only works some of the time and isn't game breaking as it's simple enough to thwart (also, it only really gives a 5 second bonus to damage that can be avoided by turning on Reverse Shield Polarity or any number of damage reduction abilities). The Science retrofit gets an ability that lets them ignore 90% of incoming damage... for a few seconds. They can still die while like that and they can't shoot back. The Exploration retrofit gives them saucer separation (again, really not super significant even if it is super cool).
If you want one, you can get one. It's not impossible. It's also not unreasonable for them to request that you start paying for something that was once free. Everything is subject to change after all (I believe it's in the EULA).
How have we been fleeced? I don't feel that way and I've been a F2P for LOTRO, a Subscriber to DDO, a Subscriber to SWG and many more.
In fact, as a F2P for LOTRO, I've thrown money at it to pay for the things my subscriber friends got for free. Those free TPs don't pay for enough and I had to bolster it with $20 here and $20 there just to keep pace. I like having all the traits, but each one is 95 points and you're allowed TWO max per category as a F2P. You pay 95 TP per character per trait and only have access to two initially? I was okay with it because it was my choice to not subscribe (but I did limit myself to a grand whopping three characters ever and only a couple of them have ever spent my TP on traits).
But is it reasonable? No absolutely not, not if you actually value your customers and subscribers.
Might want to pay attention to the grammar, as i was not talking in past-tense.
I.E We have not be fleeced yet, but some of us will be as well as future players, who will be forced to pay for the Vice Admiral ships instead of even getting a free chioce at one as they are entitled to as subscribers.
The only people being forced to "pay" for an endgame ship are the silver players. As I have already pointed out, there are other ways for us to gain the C-Store points needed for our VA ships.
And STO might like to be a AAA MMO, but I don't think it is there yet.
WOOT! Orion girls wanting hugs and kisses... I'm in
I have allready bought any va ships that I am likely to use and I mostly use ra ships at va anyways, so it does not bother me.
They still need to look at dilithium pricing though, they are way out of hand!
Well said,
the point i was trying to make
Invalid, "someone" still pays for those C-Points.
The only acceptable compromise is an additional direct conversion from Dilithium to C-Points at a fixed reasonable rate.
Not paying attention to my grammar again eh?
Your right, nobody is forced to buy VA ships, however people are forced to pay for "endgame" ships, endgame being signified that they are tied to the highest rank.
They are also part of the reward for reaching Vice Admiral and one of the primary leveling goals which they are now taking away.
And i disagree completely, in competent hands the Vice Admiral ships give a huge tactical advantage.
A retrofit Galaxy can in an instant convert itself into an Escort and start maneuvring in ways no other ship in the game can.
The Defiant is at present(on holodeck) also the ONLY federation ship with a Cloaking device obtainable through nomal gameplay.
The Prometheus, while not obtainable with a token but can be ground for, has a turning rate that even surpasses BoP's when seperated.
Key phrase here being "daniel stahl himself said"
There are several things that "he said" that the new management seem to be unraveling and doing completely the opposite.
Daniel Stahl said prices would be going down, not up.
Daniel Stahl said that eventually ALL ships would be obtainable through in-game means, not be C-Store exclusives.
Daniel Stah said that we would not loose anything with F2P, not that we would have to fight to keep what we have at present.
So quite frankly, I don't put a lot of stock in Cryptic honoring past claims and commitments anymore.
Dstahl said alot of things, but he is no longer with the company, so they don't hve to do anything he said, like pay walls for example, he said there would be no pay walls, he said it many times.
No more VA ships unless u pay for it, is a pay wall.
We might as well speak in the past tense as they're probably not going to be changing anything about it until AFTER it's implemented on Tribble. We're also presuming everything is set in stone with this mechanism. Hence the length of this discussion. Plus, if you're poking at my grammar, then your spelling is up for grabs. Further, citing the Prometheus MVAM is a bit silly since it's only been available via grinding or C-Store purchasing and this discussion is about the VA specific ships that are only kind of available for free on Holodeck (I say "kind of" because you only get ONE for free).
It will always come down to "competent hands". In my hands, I'm better in my cloaking Defiant than my friend with his cloaking Defiant. In my hands, my Sovereign Assault Cruiser can't be defeated by my friend in his RA Escort (I think it's an Advanced) or even in his Intrepid retrofit.
The VA ships are opportunities to have neat abilities. My position on this is that whereas they are cool and whereas they're "endgame", they're not overpowered, they're not game breaking, and they're well balanced compared to their RA counterparts. This has nothing to do with player skill, it has everything to do with player access and opportunity. If someone wants the VA ships, they will find a way to get them. Essentially the VA special ships are just another set of RA ships right now. When/if they ever get special consoles to go with them, maybe that will change, I don't know.
As an aside, I think being allowed to test drive the fancy ships for a bit would be nice. I'm not sure how this would be implemented, but I'd like to try out the Prometheus MVAM before buying it and discovering I wasted my time/resources on it because it's not what I thought it would be. They could totally borrow Stan from the Monkey Island series to let us test-drive ships. 30 minutes is all I ask!
They are looking for solutions to the VA ship problem, the C-store ships (that we currently recieve for free) are already the +1 model. The solution would be to release 3 non-special ships at that rank.
Solverign Refit (+1 BO to eng slot)
Surak Class (mentioned in show never shown, should have entered service toward the end of DS9, making it new than the Defiant) (+1 BO to Tact Slot)
Ronin Class (This is a smaller version of the Solvergin class with its main goal is scientific exploration) (+1 BO to Sci slot)
http://wiki.starbase118.net/wiki/images/2/2f/Nav-morningstar.jpg (Ronin class starship)
Sure, I understand what you guys are saying here, and I agree to a point, but lets remember that at least for a moment, they haven't vocally changed this either, so at least this still COULD be a possibility.