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Is it worth continuing to get a T2 Ship.....

SystemSystem Member, NoReporting Posts: 178,019 Arc User
IS it worth is ti to continue to get a T2 ship if there is no way to get dilithium? I am almost there to LC and am wondering if It is worth it. Also what is the secert to getting to VA so quick I am seeing people saying they up in those ranks.
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  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited October 2011
    I got my T2 Cruiser last night without issue, I think the bug is with T3+ so you should be fine.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited October 2011
    Is it a bug that you don't get enough to buy ships at promotion past LtC? Have the developers said as much? I know there's supposed to be missions and such to get it along the way but they're not hooked up. It's likely the deficit is intended and you're supposed to be making up the gap with either C-points or grinding along the way.

    It's rather difficult to evaluate if the stipend you get a promotion is appropriate without the other methods to earn dilithium in-place.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited October 2011
    rmh1865 wrote: »
    Is it a bug that you don't get enough to buy ships at promotion past LtC? Have the developers said as much? I know there's supposed to be missions and such to get it along the way but they're not hooked up. It's likely the deficit is intended and you're supposed to be making up the gap with either C-points or grinding along the way.

    It's rather difficult to evaluate if the stipend you get a promotion is appropriate without the other methods to earn dilithium in-place.

    It sounds like it's intentional, and they just haven't hooked up all the Dilithium mish rewards. I'm holding off on Tribble until we get an update with more dilithium hooked up, since as it stands now it's possible to plateau. I'm not going to level an Alt with the economy crippled.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited October 2011
    I am almost through Commander in my tier 2 escort. Yeah the dilithium system is borked right now, but as was said above, not all the missions that will reward dilithium, nor the means to refine it, have been patched in yet. Some people are looking at it as a challenge and seeing if they can reach max level in a tier 2 Connie, or any tier 2 ship. Some are trying to do it in the Miranda. Overall I am not finding it difficult, but the loot gods have been chuckling at me (lots of useable gear but nothing fantastic like I am seeing linked in TTS) and what I do not use I recycle, and I've used those funds to buy gear to fill in gaps.

    Some ways to earn dilithium once it goes into the build -

    * Explore missions in star clusters.
    * Possibly in some diplomacy missions. I haven't seen a mention of this, it's only my guess.
    * Daily missions - The one I have access to right now awards 480 refined dilithium.
    * DOFF missions - Some will no doubt award dilithium. Trade missions could be refined, while engineer missions could be raw ore.
    * Storyline missions - Some will be changed to award dilithium, though I am willing to bet that it won't be excessive amounts, and only a small fraction of the total missions available.

    The devs have a method to this madness. It's focusing testing on several areas, and we have found a lot of bugs that otherwise would have been passed on to Holodeck. In the next phase it will be focused on those systems and content, and again, we will find lots of bugs that would have otherwise made it to Holodeck. While it hasn't been implicitly stated that this is what they are doing (not that I have seen) it is apparent to me that it is. It's a smart approach, and I think the end result will make us far more happy with the game, than we were after closed and open betas before the game launched.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited October 2011
    I just ran into this issue on Tribble. I wish I'd had some prior warning, but I've not been scanning the forums. It really sucked to reach Commander and suddenly realize I can't get my next ship. I've leveled from Ensign to Commander in two days, trying to get to VA as quick as I can for the rewards coming to holodeck, but this just killed my drive. It's going to make the grind to Captain so painful that I'm not sure it's even worth it now.

    I think I'm going to take a break from Tribble. Maybe I'll get enough of a drive back to push my way to Captain and get a new ship then. Of course, if I get a new ship at Captain the question comes up will I be able to get a new ship at Rear Admiral - Lower Half if/when I hit it, or will I be screwed again?
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited October 2011
    Nikodas wrote: »
    I just ran into this issue on Tribble. I wish I'd had some prior warning, but I've not been scanning the forums. It really sucked to reach Commander and suddenly realize I can't get my next ship. I've leveled from Ensign to Commander in two days, trying to get to VA as quick as I can for the rewards coming to holodeck, but this just killed my drive. It's going to make the grind to Captain so painful that I'm not sure it's even worth it now.

    I think I'm going to take a break from Tribble. Maybe I'll get enough of a drive back to push my way to Captain and get a new ship then. Of course, if I get a new ship at Captain the question comes up will I be able to get a new ship at Rear Admiral - Lower Half if/when I hit it, or will I be screwed again?

    i just hit VA and since i got captain i have the Galaxy but i havent got any dilithium for promotion to RA upper and VA... so i now have 130k and cant buy the assaultcruiser -.- that really suck
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited October 2011
    HOPE they tell when they are going to fix this TRIBBLE. Because until they do me and I bet a lot of people are out of tribble. I will test stuff for them but Im not grinding to test for them. A new ship should come at every promotion, to have to use a lower tier ship in the next lvl to save for the next tier ship is stupid.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited October 2011
    I don't mind a bit of grind, TBH. I have no problem with being forced to run a few dailies or exploration missions to get the next tier ship. But those haven't been implemented yet, so I can't even do that. Until I can, I'm out.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited October 2011
    its frustrating, once u get past Commander and can't get a better ship :(

    Is it worth it? well I think thats an individual thing, I will grind through as long as i can, but I really hope they will fix this very soon, so we can properly test the new economic system
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited October 2011
    I find it ridiculous that the free ship token is gone. The only thing achieved here is that I stop play testing after commander 1.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited October 2011
    mongo94 wrote:
    HOPE they tell when they are going to fix this TRIBBLE. Because until they do me and I bet a lot of people are out of tribble. I will test stuff for them but Im not grinding to test for them. A new ship should come at every promotion, to have to use a lower tier ship in the next lvl to save for the next tier ship is stupid.

    Even on live when free to play comes a free ship should come with rank up as it always has for nearly 2 years.

    To change that now is just a slap in the face to the people who have been playing and paying to play this game all this time.

    You should NEVER have to grind for a new ship at rank up.

    It is completely wrong in terms of Starfleet Operations after all..You are given command of a ship by the Admiralty.Picard did not buy the Enterprise after he was promoted from being the Stargazers first officer.He was promoted and given command of that ship.Lets keep it that way in game shall we..

    Now if you want a second ship that is available at that rank then by all means have it be needed to grind out the dilithium.

    Example you rank to Commander and you are an engineer concentrating on cruisers.I want the Heavy Cruiser as my ship when I rank.So I am given what is needed to get that ship right off the bat.Now later on I decide I want to try out say the Advanced Heavy Cruiser Excelsior.Then by all means make me have to grind out what is needed to get that ship as it is an extra not needed to progress through the game.

    But your first ship at each rank should be a given as it always has been.

    Do not let Perfect World turn this game into a grind or pay to progress game as all their others are.
    This game has been fun because you do not have to grind anything if you do not want to.It is one of the few MMO's that is like that.You can progress from start to max level without needing to grind anything (Klingons being the exception).
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited October 2011
    The forums are a tool, use them wisely. That aside, there is a mission on the academy that gives 16 million dilithium as a reward, its been mentioned on the forums quite a bit.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited October 2011
    mondo80 wrote: »
    The forums are a tool, use them wisely. That aside, there is a mission on the academy that gives 16 million dilithium as a reward, its been mentioned on the forums quite a bit.

    mondo80, Could you be more specific about that academy mission? This is the first that I've heard about it.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited October 2011
    Guys... here's a thought:

    Perhaps this is sort of meant to be taken as a paradign shift in how the Ship Tiers works. As it becomes harder to get to the next tier, we start making more of the ships we already have. Personally, I don't mind having to stick around in my Nova a bit longer, and hell, I probably could have stayed in Miranda for longer, too.

    And as said, alot of missions aren't in for us to get Dilithium yet, this is still beta, alot can still change.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited October 2011
    The problem is that without word from the developers it's difficult for us to test anything and provide meaningful feedback. If the gap is intended, which I suspect, and we're supposed to be making that up along the way with exploration missions and whatnot, we can't tell them right now if the gap is too big or to small, or rate the rewards of the missions at all.

    With mission XP boosted so much, I'm flying past tiers that should probably be tested but there's a time limit if I want to get the rewards for hitting VA so I'm doing something that doesn't really need to be tested at all: Leveling through T3 and T4 content with a T2 ship. How many folks do you think are going to go back and level a second toon on Tribble?
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited October 2011
    rmh1865 wrote: »
    The problem is that without word from the developers it's difficult for us to test anything and provide meaningful feedback. If the gap is intended, which I suspect, and we're supposed to be making that up along the way with exploration missions and whatnot, we can't tell them right now if the gap is too big or to small, or rate the rewards of the missions at all.

    With mission XP boosted so much, I'm flying past tiers that should probably be tested but there's a time limit if I want to get the rewards for hitting VA so I'm doing something that doesn't really need to be tested at all: Leveling through T3 and T4 content with a T2 ship. How many folks do you think are going to go back and level a second toon on Tribble?

    Once everything's all in? Sure.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited October 2011
    Well, if you do, credit for putting in the effort, however I think you're in the minority. When character transfers open from Holodeck, I expect the lowbie areas will be a ghost town and everyone will be trying out the new STFs and a lot of these issues will go without proper large-scale testing.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited October 2011
    mondo80 wrote: »
    The forums are a tool, use them wisely. That aside, there is a mission on the academy that gives 16 million dilithium as a reward, its been mentioned on the forums quite a bit.

    there is only one mission at starfleet academy that I've seen, and it only give about 400.

    So please enlighten us
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited October 2011
    I have to admit, I'm a bit iffy over the whole "buy your new ship" paradigm the devs are looking into. Even with the promise of regular missions and such granting more dilitium than we're getting during this (early) test phase, it still feels too much like the Ferengi bought out the shipyards at Utopia Planetia. :)

    I've heard this idea bandied about, and I think I'll take the opportunity to voice it again: this is an excellent avenue to help distinguish and give incentive towards Gold accounts.

    Silver: we'll need a down payment, Lieutenant.
    Gold: Welcome aboard, Captain.

    We'll see how things look as we're deeper into testing.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited October 2011
    rmh1865 wrote: »
    The problem is that without word from the developers it's difficult for us to test anything and provide meaningful feedback. If the gap is intended, which I suspect, and we're supposed to be making that up along the way with exploration missions and whatnot, we can't tell them right now if the gap is too big or to small, or rate the rewards of the missions at all.

    With mission XP boosted so much, I'm flying past tiers that should probably be tested but there's a time limit if I want to get the rewards for hitting VA so I'm doing something that doesn't really need to be tested at all: Leveling through T3 and T4 content with a T2 ship. How many folks do you think are going to go back and level a second toon on Tribble?

    And it seem the devs are ignoring everything to do with these forums to answer DOFF questions and concerns in the other sections of the forum.

    I would like to hear something from the devs on whether this is intended wit the dilithium or not and if it is will there be enough given throughout the leveling process to be able to afford the new ship at rank with little to no grind needed.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited October 2011
    I would pick up the LC ship.. it's far more bearable than the Miranda/Centaur/Shi-something.. and just tough it out and make it to Rear Admiral in one.

    Then you _might_ have enough dilithium for that vessel.
    ChrisWorth wrote:
    And it seem the devs are ignoring everything to do with these forums to answer DOFF questions and concerns in the other sections of the forum.

    Well, Heretic's an awesome guy and it seems the DOff system is his baby. The dilithium system belongs to someone else.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited October 2011
    I have to admit, I'm a bit iffy over the whole "buy your new ship" paradigm the devs are looking into. Even with the promise of regular missions and such granting more dilitium than we're getting during this (early) test phase, it still feels too much like the Ferengi bought out the shipyards at Utopia Planetia. :)

    I've heard this idea bandied about, and I think I'll take the opportunity to voice it again: this is an excellent avenue to help distinguish and give incentive towards Gold accounts.

    Silver: we'll need a down payment, Lieutenant.
    Gold: Welcome aboard, Captain.

    We'll see how things look as we're deeper into testing.

    A fantastic point!!

    We are testing this as it will be f2p, after all.

    I'd like to offer a perspective on this:

    Even when the game is Free To Play, and even if it isn't Pay to Win, per-se, there will still have to be something that people can pay for for incentive. This something is often, summed up, time. If it takes, say, 10 more missions worth of time to get enough Dilithium to buy my new ship, I could do that. Or, I could just by 10 missions worth of dillithium and not spend the time on that. As a free player, I would not mind this, because I both have the time to spend, myself, and know that they have to make money some how.

    As a pay player, I know that this means that I can spend less time grinding and more time on other aspects of the game I might like more. It's not quite an "I Win" Button. People who have alot of time to spend on the game will probably allways outweigh me as far as value of equipment is concerned, unless I spend quite a bit of money, but this does give me something for my money.

    Does that make sense?
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited October 2011
    Even from the perspective of a potential F2P player, I'm uncomfortable with the idea of grinding through for new tiers of ships. It puts you at such a disadvantage, and I know the company needs money, but if they make things too frustrating, people will just stop playing.

    With most F2P games, you're not crippled by not paying. You just don't get as many options. So the first ship at each rank should be free, but make it cost more to get a second ship. And remember, even those of us with lifetime subscriptions will eventually have to buy ships with dilithium, even if it's our VA ships. Remember that dilithium is replacing Marks and Emblems. If it becomes the currency of new ships instead of (the quite easily attainable) ECs, then we'll see a lot of VAs grinding for dilithium as well. If the entire game becomes a grind for dilithium, then it loses a lot of its appeal.

    If they really want to get F2P players to pay for micro-transactions, hit them where we all want it... customization. Give them free ships. Then make them grind for dilithium or pay cash transactions to change from a Nova to a Quasar.

    As it is, the smart players will learn to live with alternating tiers. They'll skip 2 and 4 or maybe 3 and 5. If it takes you 4 levels of grinding for dilithium to get your Tier 3 ship, why spend only 6 levels in it when you can keep your Tier 2 for those 6 levels and get your Tier 4 as soon as you hit Captain. Is anyone going to miss the Heavy Cruiser or the Research Science Vessel? No. They're going to skip and go straight from Nova to Intrepid or Connie Refit to Galaxy.

    Final point: We've been told repeatedly that CBS doesn't want Tier 2 level vessels to be operating at endgame levels, and that's why there'll never be a T5 Connie, etc. We've also been told repeatedly that they don't want you to upgrade ships because it would be confusing for PVP to go into a fight with a Tier 3 ship only to realize it's really a Tier 6 in a Tier 3 skin. These are the arguments that have been given by Cryptic for why we can't mess up the tiered system. The whole "tier" system is based on the idea that at each rank you fly a new class of ship. So let me pose this problem: If you don't give each rank a tier-appropriate vessel upon ranking up, won't that ultimately lead to a breakdown of the tiers anyway, as Commanders go around flying Rapiers, Novas and Vespers because they don't feel like grinding for dilithium?

    Or maybe we'll just prove CBS wrong in the first place and show them that Connies can indeed go up against the Borg and do just fine. :)
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited October 2011
    Well, I am starting to not like the Dilithium idea. Im holding out till new patches (hopefully soon since as far as I have read on the Tribble forums dilithium is bugged as far as the amount you get per tier) and hopefully it gets patched soon. Its a game breaker. I really do not want to grind through commander in my T2 ship.

    This should of been fixed right away. And the dev silence on the matter is disconcerting/demoralizing. At least give us a time frame as to when it will be fixed. Silence is not a good policy when you are testing something this big. And if you are going to push a patch, make sure its something that is affecting everyone and is a game breaker.

    I want to test. I really cant right now. Im LTC9 (4 skill points from 10) and still have MkII quest reward greens. I would grind exploration missions but you dont get Dilithium. I would do dailies but you get nothing to dent the cost of Ship/Personal gear at the vendors. Its like a cruel joke they are playing on us. "Level up, get rewards but you have to do it in a Miranda." I feel like Pavlov's Dog.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited October 2011
    Notion wrote:
    *snip Big*

    Lots of good points here, and you are right, if it's a big problem for 'grinding' to get Dilithium, there will be a problem. But I don't really consider picking up every daily that you can grab that much of a 'grind' on STO. Rather, it's the closest thing we have to a Grind, I think. I dunno, maybe I equate grinding to running around WoW's Barrens killing everything in sight for the off chance it'll have a piece of something you want for that quest you picked up 10 lvls ago...

    STO has almost nothing like that. It's just about all episodes, assignments, or mini-missions that are themselves actually pretty fun to play. The closest thing I can think of is scanning anomalies and that's not that bad either, as the mini-game goes a long way to alleviating the boredom, there.

    If a silver, or even a gold player decides they don't want to pick up their available dailies each chance they get so that they can have enough dilithium, I'd say that it's their call. But at the same time, there should, of course, be plenty of options on getting dillithium that you don't have to, say, do the Sattelite Repair mission over and over again 10 times.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited October 2011
    It's the silence from the devs on the issue that has me the most irritated about it. Finally last night we at least got confirmation that they realize it is an issue.

    Now if we could just get a statement about whether it was intended, what the supposed game plan is for it, whether they want people to grind the remainder or what have you. Some communication from the devs on what the intentions are/were/havechangedto would be nice.

    Is that to much to ask for?
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited October 2011
    This whole dilithium ordeal is the closest thing to a dealbreaker I've come accross in regards to STO. I believe it will be fixed eventually on Tribble, but I'm having a little trouble wrapping my head around the fact that the devs want their build tested by the players, but they throw their saboe all up in their work to make it such a a grind. I've just hit Commander 1 on Tribble. I won't be playing on tribble again until I have my T3 as I'm supposed to.

    I really don't appreciate the fact that you are forced to take a specific path to level up. Some missions just aren't for some folks... This F2P mess is really dragging the game down, I think.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited October 2011
    I've heard this idea bandied about, and I think I'll take the opportunity to voice it again: this is an excellent avenue to help distinguish and give incentive towards Gold accounts.

    Silver: we'll need a down payment, Lieutenant.
    Gold: Welcome aboard, Captain.

    Hm.. you mean:
    • Silver: on obtaining a promotion, receives refined dilithium towards the purchase of a new ship,

    • Gold: on obtaining a promotion, receives everything Silver players are granted as well as a plaque for one of the standard three vessels that we are currently used to receiving when we obtain a new rank.
    Is this what you meant?
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited October 2011
    I find that lack of ship tokens kinda odd, we should at least get one ship per level.

    We all know that we will want more ships per level so would it hurt just to give us one to grind with?
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited October 2011
    rmh1865 wrote: »
    Well, if you do, credit for putting in the effort, however I think you're in the minority. When character transfers open from Holodeck, I expect the lowbie areas will be a ghost town and everyone will be trying out the new STFs and a lot of these issues will go without proper large-scale testing.

    That is why the Devs are intentionally NOT allowing transfers yet. And odds are they won't allow transfers until they have enough data from people leveling up from scratch.

    I still think getting rid of the level-up plaques is a bad idea. A very bad idea. Allow people to use plaques for their free ships and if they want and extra ship spend the dilithium for it.
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