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Can only craft odd level items?
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After finally accumilating a good bit of data, went to memory Alpha and discovered only the odd level items can be crafted on Tribble.
ie; Mk 1, Mk 3, Mk 5...all the way up to Mk 11.
Is that intended? Gawds I hope not...
*note to self* Begin stockpiling Even lvl crafted gear....
ie; Mk 1, Mk 3, Mk 5...all the way up to Mk 11.
Is that intended? Gawds I hope not...
*note to self* Begin stockpiling Even lvl crafted gear....
Post edited by Unknown User on
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Crafting even level mark equipment was worthwhile on the old (current Holodeck) system. By the time you had gathered enough anomolies to start crafting, you were getting level appropriate items (ie lvls 5-10 you were getting II, 15-20 IV, etc..).
With the current tribble F2P system, by the time you've collected enough anomolies, you are able to craft items that are 5 or more levels lower than what you would otherwise want to use. If this is intentional, the only purpose for crafting would be to level a captain and use the anomolies for starter gear for other newer characters. Is that the intent? Crafting is not supposed to be worthwhile for the character you craft on, but only for equipping other captain's you start later?
Also, it looks like the Aegis set took a hit. It appears to be mark IX in strength, down from X. For what used to be a viable "end-game" set, the downgrade kills it. Can't it be made mark XI strength instead?
Obviously it wouldnt look good on ones resume to be responsible for the nosedive of a moderately successful mmo with the Star Trek IP.
Im starting to think that what theyre doing here will make Star Wars Galaxies' NGE pale in comparison :cool:
However I completely agree that the aegis is undervalued as a mark IX and not XI. There are not enough cosmetic gear sets in the game (maybe 1/2 a dozen) to have a cosmetic set that is not viable at end game. I understand not making it the best gear (it is craft able) but making it the best craft able set only seems to make sense
sorry for the dissent to early posters. I am basing this expectation on other MMO's i have played where crafting is always viable end game, but never the best endgame gear.
Consider this.
I want "X" console for my ship. I can grind or buy materials to craft one, or I can grind Dilithium to buy one thats a little better. How am I going to spend my time? Grinding Dilithium for the better console, and never even look to the crafted version.
There will be little value to crafting if they implement these changes, as there is better gear to get by other means.
Interesting I have to say, yet also mildly annoying, but I will spend some time after getting my Tribble guy to level 51 on my Fed and KDF mains on Holodeck crafting some surplus even gear so I can give it to fleet members when required.
To clarify my thoughts on crafting in the leveling process:
Say a new F2P player starts their first character and decides to craft. As the crafting model stands now, a character will be in the upper half of the leveling tier before they have enough materials to craft with. For example, it will be levels 6-10 before a new character has enough anomolies to start crafting the first tier of items. On Tribble that first tier of items is Mark I gear. Mark I gear (on Holodeck anyway) is intended for level 1-5 usage.
This pattern repeats for each tier. Begin crafting at level 16-20 for tier 2, but they can only craft Mark III gear. Begin crafting at level 26-30, but can only craft Mark V gear. Etc.. This poses a problem for the LEVELING character in that the items they craft are sub-standard. It only becomes less of an issue at the very top of the crafting tiers where you can begin to craft Mark XI gear.
I'm perfectly okay with not being able to craft the best gear for endgame, but for a leveling character, the current crafting model provides very little to no benefit for the amount of effort required.
The option always exists to just horde the materials and craft for your alts or craft to sell, but the immediete usefullness of crafted items while leveling is questionable.
This was all in response to the rather slow accumulation of data samples. When crafting first came out, I would be a CAPTAIN by the time I collected enough samples to craft LT.CMDR rank gear. So I figured out this little workaround to 'pool the resources'.
Besides, crafting is FAR from useless... if you HAVE the samples, AND the crafting exp, you can make some REALLY sweet stuff that you can't get anywhere else, not to mention you can basically FLOOD your ship and crew with purple gear... for ZERO cash down! LOL
It's hilarious because my 'craft characters' banks are filled to the brim with data samples. The last time I crafted my Aegis set, I happened to notice I still had like 40ish chronometric particle traces, like 50ish Methogenic, 60 dekyon... LOL It's pretty sweet having my own personal 'collection fleet' made up of all MY characters! I never have to worry about someone stealing my stuff!
Which is all well and good for you
However, I was attempting to provide feedback from the perspective of a brand new F2P player (which is what Tribble is supposed to be simulating).
Even Mark gear is no longer craftable, so stock up on all of that "sweet stuff that you can't get anywhere else" before F2P hits. All the crafted stuff has been knocked down a Mark (X -> IX, VIII -> VII, etc..).
The Aegis set, for example, is currently Mark X, but in Tribble it's Mark IX. It would make sense for them to scale back the set. To clarify... if you currently are using the Aegis set Mark X I would expect, post F2P, that you log in and instantly notice you now have Aegis Mark IX equipped and your Mark X gear gone. I would also expect that any Mark X crafted gear that you have equiped to be scaled back to Mark IX, and VIII to VII... and so on and so forth.
In essence... it would nearly nullify any benefit one could try to set up by "Stocking up" on even tier gear.
On the other hand... why not leave the crafting system the way it currently is. Maybe even make Mark XI the highest that can be crafted, again the same as it currently is. Or even let crafters make Mark XII gear, but have it all be blues. That way Crafters still have viability at end game, but it's still not the best gear available.
The questions is do many people actually optimize that much before Vice Admiral? I know when I level a character I just craft the green qualities, or maybe the blues if I happen to have a lot of extra mats and just call it at that and continue leveling. I have always considered the purple versions a waste of mats on anything short of VA. I honestly doubt I would even notice the difference between the odd marked version and the even during leveling.
The Aegis set is concerning though. The wiki says the aegis shield got more powerful as you leveled. The wiki says that at VA the shield Covariant Shield Array Mk X [Cap]x2. but with a 0.5% higher capacity and regeneration rate. What is it at now? (For VA's that is).
We are nearly all in agreement that it's a terrible idea but, as with alot of the terrible ideas so far, it achieves exactly what Cryptic is after.
Which is that to get any of the best equipment you will have to grind or buy dilithium. (emphasis on Cryptics preferred option :rolleyes: )
Exactly how I feel about Tribble atm and I was there to see that big mistake totally rip out the heart of a potentially brilliant mmo.
Whats been ripped out of the Tribble build compared to the current Holo is the distinct impression you have to fight tooth and claw painfully as a new player to get anywhere in the game if you dont want to spend a single dime, penny or cent.
Totally understandable unfortunatley if you want to revenue generate in a f2p. Which makes it hard to comment so harshly as they need to make money somehow.
It will put off anyone wanting to level an alt thats for sure as it stands now too!
The whole build on Tribble with regards to Crafting mirrors how the rest of the current build is: a defninite shock to the system for a STO Vet. For a new player they wont know the difference...yet. ^^
I'd like to rejoice f2p and look forward to it (Doff has been mildly interesting atm but glaringly obvious about spending cash to buy "card" boosters for being successful in it) but it feels like a dark cloud is brewing up a storm in the future which is going to leave a very bitter taste in many people's mouths and attitudes towards this f2p build.
Whatever additional content is showing up on Tribble and modifications will surely tell which way the wind is blowing and how many could be setting sail for other waters sadly.
Although does anyone have any confirmation that the Aegis set has been messed with and not that it is just when you look at it when your a low level it's showing you what it is for your low level? As far as I can tell the Aegis set looks the same to me. After all that set was supposed to be an endgame reward for crafting.
I like the way the Aegis makes my ship look and it is close enough to teh borg set that you don't gimp yourself if you choose to use it. Now with the changes on Tribble... using Aegis Endgame looks like your gimping yourself then yes Crafting becomes worthless and obsolete. But still it would be best if Crafting had stuff for people at all levels that was viable as an alternative to Dilithium for solo leveling up (not saying it has to be as powerful as the Dilithium gear but it shouldn't be so weak that you NEED the Dilithium gear to level up.)
This seems to me to be a sensible first step towards that. Everyone can craft "Basic" version of everything at every tier, then once you pick your specialty you would be able to make upper-mark quality gear pertaining to your specialty.
Cryptic has a big example of what not to do in gaming. There is a game ending this December that made the same epic failures that Cryptic is making.
You cant completely change a game to try to attract new players. You end up creating horrible word of mouth advertising and thats a game killer in the MMO world.
Every person I know, when I mention testing or playing a new game by SOE, will ask me about the game, say it sounds fun, and then when I tell them its a Sony Online game they say they will pass. Why? Because of what they did with Star Wars Galaxy. Even if they didnt play SWG the bad press that the NGE caused caused them to have every game carry the same stigma.
Crafting is a neccesity. It helps ships level up with a good mixture of exploration equipment. The only time, before dilithium, I used Emblems was at max level. This is the same in all MMOs except for those that have the pay to win option (See Perfect World for a good example at that).
Change crafting back to what it was. This game is going to alienate crafters if this goes live. Which will be added to the following list of people who will be alienated by Cryptic's F2P model: PVPers and PVErs.
After a couple of hours I had about 1500 crafting exp, and about 260k energy credits, and the exchange is pretty much wiped out for data samples. LOL I bought anything in a bundle of 5 or more. I have about 3ish or less data samples left over after crafting, and about 15 torp schematics, 12 dual heavy schematics, 12 turret schematics. I found out REALLY quick that people will pay REDICULOUS prices for Quantum torps, and pretty much ANY turret. After 2 hours, tons of wheeling and dealing, and a little patience, I ended up with a fully outfitted ship (at Captain level) more money than I started with, and a better understanding of 'supply and demand'.
So all in all, MY crafting experience was quite a positive one, and once the exchange re-ups on data samples I will start the whole process over again! LOL I guess I may have been the only one on Tribble to do this, because I have pretty much created a monopoly on the exchange for torps, dual heavies, and turrets... and people are willing to pay 50k or MORE for a mk IV quantum. LOL So I would like to thank the exchange and the general population of players who felt crafting was a waste of time.
The short news is that we did intend to make some changes to crafting, but that the version on Tribble is only partially complete. All of the even ranks are missing. The even ranks are supposed to be present, but with some adjusted crafting costs between the even an odd ranks.
I have my team working on getting the crafting system into the shape, and we're projecting that we'll have it up for you to look at in the build going live in two weeks (around Thurs Oct 20). I'm very sorry for the incomplete version being accidentally pushed to Tribble, and for the delay in getting it fixed, but the team is working on it now.
Thank you all for your diligent testing and feedback!
Stephen D'Angelo
Executive Producer
Star Trek Online
Thanks Community Team for bringing to the Chief.
Look forward to the fix.
Thanks for having a look into this.
With the Crafing changes coming to be pushed out, will the Players that are already maxed out in crafting stay maxed out or will they miss some R&D Points?
Thank you very much for this update. So besides tweaking costs, are any of the current crafted items being changed in any manner from their current values on the live server?