really? ive encountered one boss in stop the signal that was broken. the rest feel fine and no different to holodeck
stability is much better after the last patch which was pretty bad, and you know this will all be in testing for 2 months or so. little early to proclaim a mass failure.
I'm just saying improvements are extremely necessary.
Especially on the Devidian arc.
The way it was structured before, if u ran into a problem on a mission, you could just not play the mission, now its all in a sequence, get stuck on one and a lot of the silver players will just give up.
I'm specifically talking about the Shrouded Phantasm which is ridiculously OP. I've tried everything I can and unless i group with someone its auto-fail. Why? Because he'll pick you up and get half your HP taken away, try to run away and heal, he heals all of his HP in 5 seconds. :mad:
The way it was structured before, if u ran into a problem on a mission, you could just not play the mission, now its all in a sequence, get stuck on one and a lot of the silver players will just give up.
that i agree with, i dont like be forced to play in sequence but im not really having any difficulty issues myself. the phantasms could probably do with being toned down but thats about it.
the stability issues will of course be looked at, with two months of testing thats not something to worry about now.
1. Use Hypos, especially if you're caught in it's life drain as it breaks holds.
2. Bring a Bridge officer that can heal.
3. Tell your Bridge officers to spread out so it's PBAoE attack won't hit everyone.
I don't disagree that the Phantasm is a bit OP, but it's far from impossible.
I mean its close to impossible. I know you can do all those things to make it easier, but look at it from the point of view of their prospective new customers.
You've got all this casual play where you don't really need to think and then suddenly boss that requires all these tactics. It's frustrating and will drive people away.
I'm playing from that kind of perspective to give them feedback.
I can see why they build the weeklies into the episode arcs and I really like having the devidiant dailies at lvl 12, but 1st, I dont see the connection between this arc and the rest of the klingon arc, and 2nd, I miss the possibility of playing the weeklies besides the normal episodes at any point I like...
Best would be, leave it as it is on holodeck.
But I dont think any of the missions are too hard (on normal) except for stop the signal.
You've got all this casual play where you don't really need to think and then suddenly boss that requires all these tactics. It's frustrating and will drive people away.
I dont see it as that extreme, but theres a point here.
I dont think its as hard as everyone is saying,but I do agree with the mission layout.I dont like the fact I should beat the mission before to unlock the next and if they do do that then the Devidian series should be in its own story arc like the Breen arc.The Devidian arc could be unlocked at lvl 11(or later) and played seperately as the arc is alot better then some of those early mission and the dailies that are unlock from it are quite useful to have rather then going thru half the kilingon arc to get to all of that content.Not to mention if your looking at the story aspect of the game having the Devidian arc in the middle of the klingons messes with the story as one of the Romulan missions have you meeting the Devidians for the first time and figuring out who they are and how to get them off the USS Kirk.Would be silly if you did the Devidians arc before.Also in the Carnie arc your ship goes to complete a wargame and essentially get recuited by Section 11...to handle the Devidian situation. I understand Cryptic would rather show off their better stuff early to keep new people around but I dont think the Devidian series should just be thrown into the Klingons arc so early on.
Regardless of the Crystal Ball of Doom (tm) the OP was looking into, the Devidians are quite annoying indeed. One of those damn Eidolons killed all my Boffs with one of its lifesucking attacks, it wasn´t pleasant.
There are some hard parts, even just doing exploration, the boss room on the last exploration mission I had had a Munitions Officer, a Swordmaster and a Dahar Master, plus a couple of Warriors. That's a tough room with You, 2 BO's and 2 Security officers.
I mean its close to impossible. I know you can do all those things to make it easier, but look at it from the point of view of their prospective new customers.
You've got all this casual play where you don't really need to think and then suddenly boss that requires all these tactics. It's frustrating and will drive people away.
I'm playing from that kind of perspective to give them feedback.
im trying to play from that perspective as well and im not seeing any major problems. im not even using tactics, there is not a hell of a lot of tactics you can even use at that rank.
close to impossible- no i cant agree with that at all. those phantasms are tough, maybe a fraction too tough but ive defeated 3 with out major incident. i dont think everything should be handed to players. getting killed a few times is part of computer games. sorry im just not seeing it.
im trying to play from that perspective as well and im not seeing any major problems. im not even using tactics, there is not a hell of a lot of tactics you can even use at that rank.
close to impossible- no i cant agree with that at all. those phantasms are tough, maybe a fraction too tough but ive defeated 3 with out major incident. i dont think everything should be handed to players. getting killed a few times is part of computer games. sorry im just not seeing it.
I think Phantasms just stand out among most of the enemies in the game. Usually we go in and slaughter every living thing in seconds, one does get used to feeling invincible.
There are some hard parts, even just doing exploration, the boss room on the last exploration mission I had had a Munitions Officer, a Swordmaster and a Dahar Master, plus a couple of Warriors. That's a tough room with You, 2 BO's and 2 Security officers.
now those ones i agree are tough as hell, and the respawn points are miles away. without a closer re spawn they becomes nightmares to do. the enemy mobs have a tendency to respawn as well, which you dont get in the episodes.
I kind of like how you unlock the main story missions in order, it makes for a more cohesive story in my opinion, however I feel that the feature episodes should be seperated from the main story arch because they are more like stand alone missions, and they ocassionally mention events that take place later in the game (i.e. Admrial T'Nane mentions that you encountered the Iconian ship in the Burgas system, which is a Undine story mission)
The OP is absolutely right. Our resident hardcore guys love this but thats a good indication it will FAIL to the general public. Most players are casual, and most hate how things are and they are complaining all over tribble.
I think that there is at least enough good here that I wouldn't be worried provided they make some efforts at bug squashing. If "Stop the Signal" is any indication, they are doing it. Let's wait and see what they do next week before giving a "ZOMG, it's ded (sic)" response.
Over the top Hyperbole doesn't help your arguement.
The one negative I see in the 'one mission leads to the other leads to the other...etc.' change is the fact that with EVERY story mission needing to be played in the same order for every alt a player makes; it means that overall replayability will suffer -- (IMO) BADLY; and for an MMO, that's not good.
Personally I wish there was more of a branching suystem in place for the story arcs so, as FE series get added in (after their intial 'available to everyone release); and content increases - a player WOULDN'T need to play every 'main story'mission in the same order for every alt.
^^^
This will be more of a negative to the F2P version of STO than anythiong else, as, if you have no real replayability - and for all the talk of a 'large and expanding STO Universe' - a player is still loocked into playing everything in the same order (including a few things he's rather not repeat agai; but has to to get to latere content he really enjoyed); - any talk of an expansive universe will be hollow.
I realize te point of the mission ordering at the satrt wa sto make it easy for a player to get the hang of the variousgame mechanics, abnd understand his options - but it appears they decided to 'handhold' the player from level 1 - 51; and IMO that's a HUGE mistake.
I also think withholding a majority of the games Dailies until a player is near endgamnme is a mistake too. Again, you want to preovide a player with motre variety as he levels up (and maintain the widest variety at endgame); but to hold one of the best sectors full of dailies until Level 49? Agauin, (IMO) big mistake. Give players access in the mid 30ies, so again, they have more choices and variety in the character leveling process.
I dont think its as hard as everyone is saying,but I do agree with the mission layout.I dont like the fact I should beat the mission before to unlock the next and if they do do that then the Devidian series should be in its own story arc like the Breen arc.
The Devidian arc could be unlocked at lvl 11(or later) and played seperately as the arc is alot better then some of those early mission and the dailies that are unlock from it are quite useful to have rather then going thru half the kilingon arc to get to all of that content.Not to mention if your looking at the story aspect of the game having the Devidian arc in the middle of the klingons messes with the story as one of the Romulan missions have you meeting the Devidians for the first time and figuring out who they are and how to get them off the USS Kirk.Would be silly if you did the Devidians arc before.
Also in the Carnie arc your ship goes to complete a wargame and essentially get recuited by Section 11...to handle the Devidian situation. I understand Cryptic would rather show off their better stuff early to keep new people around but I dont think the Devidian series should just be thrown into the Klingons arc so early on.
[ Broke it into paragraphs for it to be read easier - ]
I agree with this. The FE's shouldn't be folded in where they are. They either need to be played at the end, or just off to the side as they have the Exploration PvP and Patrol missions, as they don't really make sense from the story you're trying to play out.
Secondly, I also agree that locking the story from mission to mission is a bad ide;. keep them scaling to level but allow some to be skipped. Either that or provide another leveling path for alts. It'll get -really- old running the same ones every time you make an alt.
the only problem so far is the dread on "stop the signal".
sure the dividian thingys are a pain at times, but you just try again and you try a diffrent tactics.
worked for me and i have pretty much just grinded thrue the entire thing to ra 2 since tribble opened.
use your boffs as a human shield and just revive them while fighting and remember to use exploits and flanking!
If F2P launches anywhere near Tribble as it is, it will fail.
So far, almost every mission has at least one ridiculously powerful boss and are constantly crashing.
The bosses, enemies, and stability must be improved.
This is... gross exaggeration, at the very least, on the part of the mission difficulty.
The only bosses thus far that have been disproportionately powerful are the Tethys from Stop the Signal and the Phantasm from What Lies Beneath. The latter is a long-standing difficulty anomaly, I will add.
All the other missions play exactly as they always have since Ground 2.0 went live. Anyone saying otherwise obviously hasn't rolled a new toon since S4 (and I really don't blame them for that, I'm just saying, they clearly have no idea what the low missions are like now if they're only now complaining about Tribble).
That said, the Devidians, specifically the Phantasms and Eidolons, need looked at, as they pose a challenge far greater than they ought to as they are now.
I like how doomsayers announce failure after a couple of days of beta, with at least a few weeks (if not months) yet to come.
The f2p beta is obviously still a work in progress, and from a couple of dev responses it's obvious that
they are working on it with highest priority.
But yes, the bosses need to be looked at, and for replayability's sake the linear mission progression needs to be revisited.
I've seen a couple of suggestions like a division into smaller story arcs that are playable out of order, while missions inside
the arc are still to be played in order.
Or an accountwide accolade that frees up the restriction once you've played all the missions once.
There are ways that should create a better experience without all too much work.
I'm sure the devs are listening.
But it's obvious this is still a beta, and still needs some work, but hey, that's why we are on Tribble, am I right?
Yeah, so we've made a noise about bugs in Stop the Signal and they're going to fix those. We're making a noise about the Phantasms and I'll wager those will be toned down. I've raised bugs about breaking the mission chain with the SS Azura... All these things are the reason we are playing on tribble; to test!
I posted this over in the Episodes thread, , but I think it could do to be here as well.
Had an idea;
Currently you unlock the next episode by completing each previous episode, making you follow the story. My Tribble character is almost Rear Admiral but is only now nearing the end of the Romulan episodes, I assume this is because of the massive amount of XP as I have been only doing the Episodes.
Now my idea is to keep the progression the same, but to add in that when you reach each rank it automatically unlocks the Episodes for that rank. So that if you are still in the Klingon episodes but you have hit Commander then the Romulan Episodes open automatically.
For example, you could be on the mission 'Dooms Day Device' and hit Commander and have the mission 'Heading Out' open up while the last 2 Klingon missions stay closed until you complete 'Dooms Day Device.'
I think this would work because it would allow you to see how the story line should progress, but not cause you to get lower ranked rewards, and would also allow you to have some control over 'your story.'
This would have the benefit of allowing the player to follow the story without being chained too it.
I am not saying the game is doomed to failure, I said IF significant changes aren't made, it will be.
And again, I know careful planning and tactics will defeat most bosses.
I'm playing not from the perspective of the continuing player, but from the perspective of new silver F2P player that Cryptic is after with the switch to F2P, they are focusing on them, not us.
And average guy, casual player is going to get in the game, maybe get interested and start playing and not really start focusing on the tactics and equipment, etc because there is no need and then suddenly he'll be smacked with an enemy that requires thinking and planning and good gear and he'll try it a few times, and go, Forget this! and leave. He may think, I'll just try another quest but oh, can't move on till he completes this mission.
Either make it so that they slowly learn stuff or make them all be as simple as the mission prior or make missions skippable.
I'm more worried about the complete lack of dilithium to be found and the requirement of 20000 more dilithium for a commander rank ship than is provided by Quinn.
The only dilitium I have found has been from two successful academy quizzes. At that rate I might be able to acquire a commander level ship by time I die of extreme old age. There has to be a lot more dilithium made available or new silver members are going to get to commander, take one look at the price of their next ship, log off and never come back. I know I would. Games that require tedious grind for STANDARD upgrades QUICKLY find their way into my trash bin. (not even talking about the elite stuff, I could understand a bit of a grind for the elite stuff)
I'm more worried about the complete lack of dilithium to be found and the requirement of 20000 more dilithium for a commander rank ship than is provided by Quinn.
The only dilitium I have found has been from two successful academy quizzes. At that rate I might be able to acquire a commander level ship by time I die of extreme old age. There has to be a lot more dilithium made available or new silver members are going to get to commander, take one look at the price of their next ship, log off and never come back. I know I would. Games that require tedious grind for STANDARD upgrades QUICKLY find their way into my trash bin. (not even talking about the elite stuff, I could understand a bit of a grind for the elite stuff)
The Dilithium system has not been full implemented, once it is you should get some from completing Episodes, Dailies, Clusters, and PvP.
Comments
stability is much better after the last patch which was pretty bad, and you know this will all be in testing for 2 months or so. little early to proclaim a mass failure.
Especially on the Devidian arc.
The way it was structured before, if u ran into a problem on a mission, you could just not play the mission, now its all in a sequence, get stuck on one and a lot of the silver players will just give up.
I'm specifically talking about the Shrouded Phantasm which is ridiculously OP. I've tried everything I can and unless i group with someone its auto-fail. Why? Because he'll pick you up and get half your HP taken away, try to run away and heal, he heals all of his HP in 5 seconds. :mad:
And before you had to do all the FEs in order.
that i agree with, i dont like be forced to play in sequence but im not really having any difficulty issues myself. the phantasms could probably do with being toned down but thats about it.
the stability issues will of course be looked at, with two months of testing thats not something to worry about now.
i think he means the whole storyline. you have to play every story mission in sequence.
2. Bring a Bridge officer that can heal.
3. Tell your Bridge officers to spread out so it's PBAoE attack won't hit everyone.
I don't disagree that the Phantasm is a bit OP, but it's far from impossible.
You've got all this casual play where you don't really need to think and then suddenly boss that requires all these tactics. It's frustrating and will drive people away.
I'm playing from that kind of perspective to give them feedback.
Best would be, leave it as it is on holodeck.
But I dont think any of the missions are too hard (on normal) except for stop the signal.
I dont see it as that extreme, but theres a point here.
im trying to play from that perspective as well and im not seeing any major problems. im not even using tactics, there is not a hell of a lot of tactics you can even use at that rank.
close to impossible- no i cant agree with that at all. those phantasms are tough, maybe a fraction too tough but ive defeated 3 with out major incident. i dont think everything should be handed to players. getting killed a few times is part of computer games. sorry im just not seeing it.
I think Phantasms just stand out among most of the enemies in the game. Usually we go in and slaughter every living thing in seconds, one does get used to feeling invincible.
now those ones i agree are tough as hell, and the respawn points are miles away. without a closer re spawn they becomes nightmares to do. the enemy mobs have a tendency to respawn as well, which you dont get in the episodes.
Isn't that why it is on Tribble?
Its like the SWG NGE all over again, its so bad.
Right now its like a sporadic heartbeat when it should be more like a sloping curve.
I'm just giving Cryptic the game as I see it from the perspective of the casual free player they are trying to attract.
I'm not saying it will fail, I'm saying as it currently stands, it needs major changes or it will.
Over the top Hyperbole doesn't help your arguement.
The one negative I see in the 'one mission leads to the other leads to the other...etc.' change is the fact that with EVERY story mission needing to be played in the same order for every alt a player makes; it means that overall replayability will suffer -- (IMO) BADLY; and for an MMO, that's not good.
Personally I wish there was more of a branching suystem in place for the story arcs so, as FE series get added in (after their intial 'available to everyone release); and content increases - a player WOULDN'T need to play every 'main story'mission in the same order for every alt.
^^^
This will be more of a negative to the F2P version of STO than anythiong else, as, if you have no real replayability - and for all the talk of a 'large and expanding STO Universe' - a player is still loocked into playing everything in the same order (including a few things he's rather not repeat agai; but has to to get to latere content he really enjoyed); - any talk of an expansive universe will be hollow.
I realize te point of the mission ordering at the satrt wa sto make it easy for a player to get the hang of the variousgame mechanics, abnd understand his options - but it appears they decided to 'handhold' the player from level 1 - 51; and IMO that's a HUGE mistake.
I also think withholding a majority of the games Dailies until a player is near endgamnme is a mistake too. Again, you want to preovide a player with motre variety as he levels up (and maintain the widest variety at endgame); but to hold one of the best sectors full of dailies until Level 49? Agauin, (IMO) big mistake. Give players access in the mid 30ies, so again, they have more choices and variety in the character leveling process.
[ Broke it into paragraphs for it to be read easier - ]
I agree with this. The FE's shouldn't be folded in where they are. They either need to be played at the end, or just off to the side as they have the Exploration PvP and Patrol missions, as they don't really make sense from the story you're trying to play out.
Secondly, I also agree that locking the story from mission to mission is a bad ide;. keep them scaling to level but allow some to be skipped. Either that or provide another leveling path for alts. It'll get -really- old running the same ones every time you make an alt.
sure the dividian thingys are a pain at times, but you just try again and you try a diffrent tactics.
worked for me and i have pretty much just grinded thrue the entire thing to ra 2 since tribble opened.
use your boffs as a human shield and just revive them while fighting and remember to use exploits and flanking!
and press X to get 33% more ranged damage.
This is... gross exaggeration, at the very least, on the part of the mission difficulty.
The only bosses thus far that have been disproportionately powerful are the Tethys from Stop the Signal and the Phantasm from What Lies Beneath. The latter is a long-standing difficulty anomaly, I will add.
All the other missions play exactly as they always have since Ground 2.0 went live. Anyone saying otherwise obviously hasn't rolled a new toon since S4 (and I really don't blame them for that, I'm just saying, they clearly have no idea what the low missions are like now if they're only now complaining about Tribble).
That said, the Devidians, specifically the Phantasms and Eidolons, need looked at, as they pose a challenge far greater than they ought to as they are now.
The f2p beta is obviously still a work in progress, and from a couple of dev responses it's obvious that
they are working on it with highest priority.
But yes, the bosses need to be looked at, and for replayability's sake the linear mission progression needs to be revisited.
I've seen a couple of suggestions like a division into smaller story arcs that are playable out of order, while missions inside
the arc are still to be played in order.
Or an accountwide accolade that frees up the restriction once you've played all the missions once.
There are ways that should create a better experience without all too much work.
I'm sure the devs are listening.
But it's obvious this is still a beta, and still needs some work, but hey, that's why we are on Tribble, am I right?
This would have the benefit of allowing the player to follow the story without being chained too it.
I am not saying the game is doomed to failure, I said IF significant changes aren't made, it will be.
And again, I know careful planning and tactics will defeat most bosses.
I'm playing not from the perspective of the continuing player, but from the perspective of new silver F2P player that Cryptic is after with the switch to F2P, they are focusing on them, not us.
And average guy, casual player is going to get in the game, maybe get interested and start playing and not really start focusing on the tactics and equipment, etc because there is no need and then suddenly he'll be smacked with an enemy that requires thinking and planning and good gear and he'll try it a few times, and go, Forget this! and leave. He may think, I'll just try another quest but oh, can't move on till he completes this mission.
Either make it so that they slowly learn stuff or make them all be as simple as the mission prior or make missions skippable.
The only dilitium I have found has been from two successful academy quizzes. At that rate I might be able to acquire a commander level ship by time I die of extreme old age. There has to be a lot more dilithium made available or new silver members are going to get to commander, take one look at the price of their next ship, log off and never come back. I know I would. Games that require tedious grind for STANDARD upgrades QUICKLY find their way into my trash bin. (not even talking about the elite stuff, I could understand a bit of a grind for the elite stuff)
The Dilithium system has not been full implemented, once it is you should get some from completing Episodes, Dailies, Clusters, and PvP.