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STOked Talks With Al Rivera

SystemSystem Member, NoReporting Posts: 178,019 Arc User
edited September 2011 in Galactic News Network [PC]
Lead Designer Al Rivera catches up with the guys at STOked to talk ships and more in their latest episode.


Link to the news article.
Post edited by Unknown User on
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Comments

  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited September 2011
    Is this the one where he says that tier 5.5 is in the works?

    *sigh*

    Would it really hurt you so much to have a shred of respect for the playerbase and work on creating a good game, instead of trying to find new and terrible ways to get money from your already pee'd off customer base at the expense of the game? Please?
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited September 2011
    Can someone tell me what chapter defines "Fed Ball" in PvP For Dummies?? :confused: I honestly have no idea what Al was talking about in relation to the Isometric Charge Console.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited September 2011
    You know I don't know what a fed ball is either... is it like a 'furball' a tight clustered large dog fight between groups of fighter aircraft?
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited September 2011
    Can someone tell me what chapter defines "Fed Ball" in PvP For Dummies?? :confused: I honestly have no idea what Al was talking about in relation to the Isometric Charge Console.

    I didn't listen to the interview, but as an early defense against KDF ships' decloaking alpha (Feds had no cloak at that time) Fed ships would fly closely to each other for cross heals etc (the good ones did anyway). This was refered to as a Fed ball. Later, there were sub-categories like a FaW ball refering to similar setup but w/FaW as huge AoE damage tactic.

    My guess is if this is the "chain lightning" console for the KDF it's to be used as a means of discouraging groups from circling the wagons so to speak.

    Edit: Though w/the scrambler sensor console the feds get it will most likely just cause the KDF to nuke their cloaked allies while their shields are down.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited September 2011
    That's interesting. Thanks. Not sure it's interesting enough for me to buy though, since Al said it was designed to counter Fed Balls in PvP which I have less than zero interest in doing.

    Might be useful in KA when all the probes and spheres are grouped up using Gravity Wells. Otherwise that console sounds kinda pointless for PvE.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited September 2011
    That's interesting. Thanks. Not sure it's interesting enough for me to buy though, since Al said it was designed to counter Fed Balls in PvP which I have less than zero interest in doing.

    Might be useful in KA when all the probes and spheres are grouped up using Gravity Wells. Otherwise that console sounds kinda pointless for PvE.
    You don't even fight the necessary number of ships in most engagements to make the console work. Except of course Fleet Actions, STFs, DSEs and Red Alerts.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited September 2011
    Is it just me or is STOked becoming less Podcast and more PR campaign? If you guys (Chris and Jeremy) have any negative views on anything STO related, there is nothing wrong with expressing them. Noone is asking you to rage on your show, but we do ask for you to give your honest opinions rather than try the diplomatic approach everytime.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited September 2011
    Well, in their defense they did harp pretty harshly on the Rhode Island (IIRC it was the RI).
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited September 2011
    hurleybird wrote: »
    Is this the one where he says that tier 5.5 is in the works?

    *sigh*

    Would it really hurt you so much to have a shred of respect for the playerbase and work on creating a good game, instead of trying to find new and terrible ways to get money from your already pee'd off customer base at the expense of the game? Please?

    Yeeeep. So much for the argument for x.5 ships being only low tier, huh?
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited September 2011
    I'm really unhappy with how the jupiter guys let Al preset his point of view without pointing out the obvious problems flaws. I really don't know how you can go from "if you want to dens a message, cancel your subscription" to "everything is great". Only explanation: Al is a really charming guy.

    To put it bluntly: the fact, that you can trade dilithium for c-points fixes nothing. Players who want to go this route are most likely not to gain access to c-store ships immediately after their promotion, since they need to accumulate huge amounts of dilithium first (considering that it takes roughly a month playtime to grind 500 Emblems). And even then I do not see, why anyone would want to trade c-points for dilithium to make this system work to start with. You would need to convert a lot of c-store and/or exclusive in-game items to something you can buy with dilithium. But what exactly are the items someone would like to buy for real money and not need to spend time grinding? For that we have:
    • The Delta Flyer Schematic (on Exchange for 500.000 EC)
    • The Aegeis Set (on Exchance for 1.500.000 EC)
    • The Borg Set (not tradable)
    • XP Boosts (on Exchange for 150.000 EC / 650.000 EC)
    • Diplomacy rewards (not tradable)
    • Veteran rewards (not tradable)
    • Referral rewards (not tradable)

    That really is not something you can base a viable economy on where players basically sell their play time for real money to others. Additionally, consider the outrage, when the non-tradable items became tradable for dilithium. Or: consider the outrage, when Cryptic makes previously expensive C-Store items obtainable for decent amounts of dilithium.

    So actually: No, dilithium for C-Points does not in any way fix the balancing issues of ships like the Rhode Island.

    And Jeremy is plain wrong when stating, that right now players would have to spend money on the Retrofits like the Galaxy with Saucer Separation. First of all, these ships are Tier 6 and therefore better than Tier 5 ships like the Sovereign. Second, you get a free token for one of those ships when you reach VA1.

    What he could have mentioned though, is the Excelsior. The Excelsior is slightly overpowered compared to the Galaxy, because it has a better turn rate and an additional console slot. But that is balanced out by the fact that the Galaxy has a built-in power usable in combat, while the transwarp-drive of the Excelsior gives no PvP advantage.

    Regards,
    Rachel
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited September 2011
    Lol, I don't get the Dilithium vs. Cryptic Points exchange either.

    The hole thing seems to be based on the assumption that many players have unspent Cryptic Points. But what would actually make me want to exchange those for Dilithium.

    Unless, of course, they make every ship (or most of them) only (!) purchasable via Dilithium. But that seems like a big waste of revenue potential.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited September 2011
    Unless, of course, they make every ship (or most of them) only (!) purchasable via Dilithium. But that seems like a big waste of revenue potential.

    From what I understand every ship is being changed to a dilithium purchase, even the ones we pay EC for. No more free ships when you rank up either, gotta grind even for those now.

    I'm sure the premium ships will have their C-Store option, along with costing more than the base ship via dilithium.

    All they have to do when they 'rebalance' the economy is make everything expensive as all get out and boom, instant desire for people to buy dilithium. Couple that with new items coming out, make them nice, make them expensive to further that desire.

    They're putting a lot of things on the dilithium system. Anything you can buy with exploration tokens, emblems, badges, whatever, will all be dilithium. Makes for a huge demand with a limited supply short of mind numbing grinding and its easy to see where they're going with it.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited September 2011
    Hravik wrote:

    I'm sure the premium ships will have their C-Store option, along with costing more than the base ship via dilithium.

    Not in my understanding.
    To buy the premium ships you will need to find somebody willing to trade their c-points for your dilithium, which you can then spend in the c-store.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited September 2011
    On a side note, I want the cat in Hravik's Avatar added to the C-Store as Spot 2.0 and added to the C-Store (with rifle).:D
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited September 2011
    hurleybird wrote: »
    Is this the one where he says that tier 5.5 is in the works?

    *sigh*

    Would it really hurt you so much to have a shred of respect for the playerbase and work on creating a good game, instead of trying to find new and terrible ways to get money from your already pee'd off customer base at the expense of the game? Please?

    This.

    Can we just admit that it's pay to win now? Sure, that may make sense for f2p... but we're still a ways away from that and have to deal with the balance repercussions now.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited September 2011
    mvs5191 wrote: »
    This.

    Can we just admit that it's pay to win now? Sure, that may make sense for f2p... but we're still a ways away from that and have to deal with the balance repercussions now.

    I have to say that I concur. Though fighting the whole p2w has gotten quite exhausting.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited September 2011
    It may not come across in the episode (it's HARD to get all of my thoughts into a live session!), but I'm very much an opponent of Pay-to-Win gaming.

    But I'm curious... from a Math standpoint, has anyone actually run PvP tests between various T2 ships to see if the Rhode Island truly FEELS like an imbalance at that level? And I'm not trying to defend it, I just want to honestly know.

    I fully admit and recognize what the numbers indicate it's more powerful than another ship due primarily to the extra boff slot. But how much difference does that REALLY make, I wonder?

    And let's extend that examination up to T5. If you had one more power at your disposal - one more boff slot - on your favorite VA ship, what would that actually do for you in a PvP scenario that couldn't be countered or would set you undeniably apart from the opponents? It would have to come down to power synergy and available counters to the enemies' tactics, wouldn't it?

    Again, I don't want to sound like I'm defending the fact that x.5 ships (or +1 ships) are GOING to be perceived as Pay-to-Win, and perception is reality when it comes to PR for a game company. But I'm truly curious as to how the actual numbers play out. The math.

    Maybe I should start a new thread on the subject though, instead of bogging down this one.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited September 2011
    Borticus wrote: »
    But I'm curious... from a Math standpoint, has anyone actually run PvP tests between various T2 ships to see if the Rhode Island truly FEELS like an imbalance at that level? And I'm not trying to defend it, I just want to honestly know.

    You don't need to do any tests to know that it does.

    You get an extra BO and console. Those are beyond extremely valuable at a tier where you only have really 1-2 of each console and all Ensigns + 1 Lt.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited September 2011
    mvs5191 wrote: »
    You don't need to do any tests to know that it does.

    You get an extra BO and console. Those are beyond extremely valuable at a tier where you only have really 1-2 of each console and all Ensigns + 1 Lt.

    And don't forget the added impulse modifier that contributes to defense and maneuverability.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited September 2011
    Subs get 400 points per month in F2P system. When you have all you want, why not sell some? I would. P2Win makes a little sense with F2P doesn't it?
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited September 2011
    Subs get 400 points per month in F2P system. When you have all you want, why not sell some? I would. P2Win makes a little sense with F2P doesn't it?

    I'm not that inclined to agree. Why? Prior to this Pay2Win, there were (and still are) tons of the older C-Store ships flying around ESD (including Galaxy-Xs). This suggests that a good portion of them were bought for C-Points. So why the need to amp ships up in the C-Store? Most people come here to play Star Trek, not "pew pew zap I got you".
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited September 2011
    I'm really unhappy with how the jupiter guys let Al preset his point of view without pointing out the obvious problems flaws. I really don't know how you can go from "if you want to dens a message, cancel your subscription" to "everything is great". Only explanation: Al is a really charming guy.

    To put it bluntly: the fact, that you can trade dilithium for c-points fixes nothing. Players who want to go this route are most likely not to gain access to c-store ships immediately after their promotion, since they need to accumulate huge amounts of dilithium first (considering that it takes roughly a month playtime to grind 500 Emblems). And even then I do not see, why anyone would want to trade c-points for dilithium to make this system work to start with. You would need to convert a lot of c-store and/or exclusive in-game items to something you can buy with dilithium. But what exactly are the items someone would like to buy for real money and not need to spend time grinding? For that we have:
    • The Delta Flyer Schematic (on Exchange for 500.000 EC)
    • The Aegeis Set (on Exchance for 1.500.000 EC)
    • The Borg Set (not tradable)
    • XP Boosts (on Exchange for 150.000 EC / 650.000 EC)
    • Diplomacy rewards (not tradable)
    • Veteran rewards (not tradable)
    • Referral rewards (not tradable)

    That really is not something you can base a viable economy on where players basically sell their play time for real money to others. Additionally, consider the outrage, when the non-tradable items became tradable for dilithium. Or: consider the outrage, when Cryptic makes previously expensive C-Store items obtainable for decent amounts of dilithium.

    So actually: No, dilithium for C-Points does not in any way fix the balancing issues of ships like the Rhode Island.

    And Jeremy is plain wrong when stating, that right now players would have to spend money on the Retrofits like the Galaxy with Saucer Separation. First of all, these ships are Tier 6 and therefore better than Tier 5 ships like the Sovereign. Second, you get a free token for one of those ships when you reach VA1.

    What he could have mentioned though, is the Excelsior. The Excelsior is slightly overpowered compared to the Galaxy, because it has a better turn rate and an additional console slot. But that is balanced out by the fact that the Galaxy has a built-in power usable in combat, while the transwarp-drive of the Excelsior gives no PvP advantage.

    Regards,
    Rachel


    Its all well and good that the Excelsior has a better turn rate, but you have to realize that when it was first made its hull was almost like that of a raptors, whereas the Star cruiser was the king of hulls for Fed side. The problem I see here is that you can not compare just Fed vs. Fed ships for balance. Compare the Excelsior to a comparable Klingon Cruiser... The Klingon cruisers are awesome. They Cloak. They turn fast. They can actually reasonably use cannons. Compare to a ship which is the Fed equivalent the Galaxy-X, which has the worst turn ratio of them all. Why? This has irked me since I first played this ship.
    As for the transwarp capability, I think it would be nice if owners of the Excelsior could use that capability on any of their ships.. that way they're not pigeonholed. Additionally, I'm quite fond of the Star Cruiser, and I'd like to see it get some love. Once upon a time it was the King of Tankers for Fed ships in this game... now its a straight dog, and that disappoints me, considering it is supposed to be the next advanced thing.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited September 2011
    Borticus wrote: »
    It may not come across in the episode (it's HARD to get all of my thoughts into a live session!), but I'm very much an opponent of Pay-to-Win gaming.

    But I'm curious... from a Math standpoint, has anyone actually run PvP tests between various T2 ships to see if the Rhode Island truly FEELS like an imbalance at that level? And I'm not trying to defend it, I just want to honestly know.

    I fully admit and recognize what the numbers indicate it's more powerful than another ship due primarily to the extra boff slot. But how much difference does that REALLY make, I wonder?

    And let's extend that examination up to T5. If you had one more power at your disposal - one more boff slot - on your favorite VA ship, what would that actually do for you in a PvP scenario that couldn't be countered or would set you undeniably apart from the opponents? It would have to come down to power synergy and available counters to the enemies' tactics, wouldn't it?

    Again, I don't want to sound like I'm defending the fact that x.5 ships (or +1 ships) are GOING to be perceived as Pay-to-Win, and perception is reality when it comes to PR for a game company. But I'm truly curious as to how the actual numbers play out. The math.

    Maybe I should start a new thread on the subject though, instead of bogging down this one.

    This is just what I was thinking. Extra BO has diminishing returns at higher levels, with shared recools and limited skill points.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited September 2011
    This is just what I was thinking. Extra BO has diminishing returns at higher levels, with shared recools and limited skill points.

    Not at all. Think about it; You could cycle: EPtS/TacTeam or get another Hazards/TSS.

    Extras BOs is never a bad thing.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited September 2011
    In my opinion, the trend is not going P2Win. It's going Pay for a Better Game Experience. RI and like ships are going to have a leg up but not a highly significant leg up. X.5 ships will be good enough to temp you to buy them but not good enough where you can win-button anyone who doesn't have one.

    And this is where the C-Points for Dilithium comes in. Cryptic gets players off their back by saying they can now get any ship and any item using in-game methods. At the same time, those in game methods take so freakin' long that the quickest and easiest way to obtain X.5 is to use RMT's.

    It's all marketing tactics to funnel C-Store purchases which support going F2P. If you don't pay $$$ you either wait for months to build up your stipends or grind months to pay ludicrous Dilithium prices. And I believe there's no longer anything we can do about it... we have arrived.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited September 2011
    QuanManChu wrote:
    I'm not that inclined to agree. Why? Prior to this Pay2Win, there were (and still are) tons of the older C-Store ships flying around ESD (including Galaxy-Xs). This suggests that a good portion of them were bought for C-Points. So why the need to amp ships up in the C-Store? Most people come here to play Star Trek, not "pew pew zap I got you".

    Yes, and those who pay money should get something for doing so. The game is going to be FREE.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited September 2011
    mvs5191 wrote: »
    Not at all. Think about it; You could cycle: EPtS/TacTeam or get another Hazards/TSS.

    Extras BOs is never a bad thing.

    A 4th ensign Tac BO on DefiantR. NOT the most helpful thing.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited September 2011
    Yes, and those who pay money should get something for doing so. The game is going to be FREE.

    I collect ships (paying for them) yet I'm still concerned about the impact pay2win will have once things like PVP/PVE ladders are added to the game.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited September 2011
    A 4th ensign Tac BO on DefiantR. NOT the most helpful thing.

    True, but a 4th Ensign of the same class on any ship is going to be a waste (except for a Sci, possibly).

    But I doubt the Devs are stupid enough to be 4 of the same Ensign on a single ship. So still, an extra BO is a good thing.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited September 2011
    Well, i know that an extra sci boff power on a vor'cha would make a very noticeable impact in pvp since its pretty lacking in that regard. Or an extra tac power that is not ensign level.
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