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Difference SS1/2 - SS3?
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The PVP matches really got better since FAW got fixed and all the players started abstaining from SS. Some premades started using SS 2 again cause its in the rules.
"Its in the tourney rules" is the argument i always get when i ask people, why they think using SS2 is ok.
I dont think thats a good argument after all. What comes next is this "Evasive Failure/Missfire" argument. Does convince me neither. I had an Evasive Failure by a SS 1 yesterday. (btw i dont believe a skill is coded different on each level). The target jump can also be totaly sick on SS 2.
So what makes so many people think, that SS 2 is still ok? I tend to think, thats just because they didnt have to deal with more than 1 scramble in the last weeks. Run into a group with 2 SS 2 and tell me, what makes SS 2 not op while SS 3 is.
"Its in the tourney rules" is the argument i always get when i ask people, why they think using SS2 is ok.
I dont think thats a good argument after all. What comes next is this "Evasive Failure/Missfire" argument. Does convince me neither. I had an Evasive Failure by a SS 1 yesterday. (btw i dont believe a skill is coded different on each level). The target jump can also be totaly sick on SS 2.
So what makes so many people think, that SS 2 is still ok? I tend to think, thats just because they didnt have to deal with more than 1 scramble in the last weeks. Run into a group with 2 SS 2 and tell me, what makes SS 2 not op while SS 3 is.
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I have gotten the evasive bug on ALL versions of scramble... from a 34 second SS3 to a 5 second SS1.
Its just another skill that has been broken for the entire length of the game, but people have only started seriously complaining about in the past 6 months or so.
Yes, I realize it sits on my sci toon.
No I can't say I'm terribly sorry that I have it when I get dosed with it, at least ten times a night as I roll through the ques, often times, chain scrambled by the enemy team.
Also guys who got scrambled when using scramble, scramble own teammates
And the F(fleet) just have 2 scrambles, all depends on timing and teamplay.
thats a bunch of bull... our entire team was permascrambled in every match against you guys... and we were well spread out too.
Since you're pointing fingers, I could say the same thing in those matches about your fleet Iceroid. I was getting hit by scramble sensors 3, every minute like clock work:
http://i53.tinypic.com/2096khu.jpg
My whole team had scramble on us most of those matches - often multiple copies:
http://i55.tinypic.com/24wzehz.jpg
And no we werent running 4 copies of scramble. We had at most 3 sci ships / sci captains, at any time in those matches (again see screen shots), only our sci's had a copy, and no-one's carrying multiple copies. I can see why you guys might have thought there were more.
Here's a hint - try waiting till your scrambled, and try scrambling an enemy near your team-mates...
In answer to the OP's question, I agree from experience, Scramble 1,2 and 3 all have the potential to cause the same behaviour - ie. evasive failure. and target switching. I've tested repeatedly that evasive can fail when mere Scramble 1 is fired - as for whether that's a bug or intended, that' really up to the devs to confirm.
In short, Scramble 3 is no more OP than Scramble 1 or 2. Those players in the pvp community who want Scramble 3 banned from your tourneys, should be consistent about it at least, and stop using Scramble of any level altogether.
I think one of the reasons that lower level Scrambles were deemed "okay" was that it competes with various lower level Science powers (especially heals) for attention. You can build a healing-focused Science Vessel that simply uses the Commander Slot for Scramble Sensors. Other powers only work really effective if you combine them with other offensive skills (Tykens Rift + Scramble, Charged Particule Burst + Tachyon Beam + Photonic Shockwave) that might also require appropriate skilling. IF you got Scramble Sensors I or II, you have to take a lower grade heal, and figure out if you can still find something useful in the Commander slot that actually works with your other skill choices.
If you want to make lower tier Scrambles work well skilling into it becomes more important _and_ your only Cmdr level option that goes with that skill is Viral Matrix, which isn't very hot. I think if you specced into Transfer Shield Strength related skills, the other skill is Feedback Pulse, which isn't that interesting either (and its synergie with Feedback Pulse might be questionable, especially if many people use Scrambles - the enemy might not even be able to focus fire on the Feedback Pulse user in the first place).
But I agree, ultimately Scramble is just too annyoing.
Really ? Can you explain me why my unskilled ss II lasts 22 seconds without sensor probe consoles? All lvls of ss are broken, skilled or not.
First officer : "Captain we have an plasma leak on deck 12"
Captain : "Send a engineering team to that deck and fix it"
First officer : "Sorry Captain i beamed our team to the enemy ship because our sensors have been scrambled"
Captain : ":eek: WTF..."
The effect of ss is just stupid make it to an aoe jam sensors and it will be balanced.
I've been quite a while a huge disciple of the SS3 madness but I had to change my mind about that. Scramble messes up the great experience to compete fair with other players in pvp games. So if you say, SS3 in a no-go, all scramble skills should be considered like that.
Healing penalty is an good idea because there are no skills in game where prevent yo-yo healing.
I 100% agree that SS needs to be re-worked in some form to make it less effective. Maybe it could be treated like shockwave was.. ie: once you are scrambled, then you have an immunity to being scrambled again for a certain amount of time.
A problem of the current Scramble is that it lasts very long. I think under this circumstances, temporary immunities don't work as well.
Here is another approach without using a heal or damage debuff.
Scramble Sensors
Skills: Starship Operations, Starship Sensors, Starship Sensor Probes
System Cooldown: 15 Sensor Probes
Recharge: 30 seconds
Global Cooldown: 20 seconds
Scramble Sensors creates a projectile that targets an enemy in a 180° forward arc and explodes at the target's location at the time of the launch. All hostile ships within a radius X are scrambled for Y seconds.
When first scrambled, the target immediately switches its current target to a random target. While scrambled, all other contacts are treated as hostile. When the Scramble duration expires, the target is immune to a new Scramble Effect for 15 seconds (clearing all still lasting scramble effects.)
X ranges from 3-6 km, based on the following formula (capped at 6 km)
X = 2 + (Auxillary Power / 100) + RANK) km.
Y ranges from 5-10 seconds (hard capped at 10 km), based on the following formula
Y = 4 + (RANK) + (Skill Rating / 100) + (Auxillary Power / 100) seconds.
This means Scramble Sensors can be used more often, but it lasts a lot shorter. Also, the target hopping happens exactly _once_, in the beginning, and that is it.
Maybe have the effect taper off at range, like if you are at the outside range the effects are less.
Nah you are wrong I been scrambled alot and in my experience SS3 cancels you evasive like 50% when SS2 is way less. Yes SS2 fully speced can be as brutal as a non spec SS3, but we alrdy tried having af turney with no SS and that ment tac team all over the place, when ppl dont needed ST.
We could ban SS2 in the opvp turney and only allow SS1
But I really dont think there would be any problems if all the PvP fleets follow the simple rules of the Opvp turney
No FAW No Mines No PENG and No SS3
How stupid is it to meet another fleet that mine spam when your own do not use FAW becourse you have followed the opvp rules
^^ I like this quote!
Just in general, been running builds without those wonderfully talked about powers that are being omitted from the tourney.
When you face others that are following the same guidelines, it makes for a very enjoyable match. If being SS1/2d to death because you dont have a sci officer/vessel on your team, thats just pointing out a defecincy in your group makeup.
Really Tide, your experience is the argument now?
The OPVP tourney rules again... Its not the Holy Bilbe, is it?
Id really like to see the rules allow FAW and mines instead of SS.
How stupid is it to meet another fleet that SS 2 spam when your own do not use SS because you know using it makes the match no fun for both sides.
And why do not ban SS 2, if you could? Cause SS 1 is not op/broken enough to deal with the Tac Team problem?
To me this pretty much looks like arbitrariness.
There was a time some decided SS is the only way to deal with Tactical Teams. (Of course its not) Cool, I missed that but have to live with that now?
Also the rules suite the tactics allready known by those fleets in banning counters, like FAW or SS3, or Mines etc.
As long we have rules against abilitys that are not broken more then other abilitys spams or other things who are hardcounters i will never strictly follow those rules, as long as not all PVP Fleets are part of an legal and fair Rulesetting system i will not accept or follow those rules out of the Tourney.
And when i think the rules of the tourney are one sided or help some tactics more then to counter those tactics i will not be part of that turney, and the turney is not essential for me as a decent, legal, neutral and rating platform to decide which fleet is now on top or which tactic work good. In that case the tourney is nothing more then a couple of fun challenges.
Strategy and Tactic in every MMO is not set by rules of guys who ban think they dont want to face or deal with. All big Turneys of other MMO or Games dont have such many rules against abilitys or usage of it.
As long we can spam minions, ss1, ss2, there is a need for FAW and SS3 in my opinion.
FAW is not broken, as some guys think, after they nerfed it its a normal skill like others.
Spam is not broken, from abilitys or minions there is only the big lag issue.
As i said before, PVP Fleet or not PVP Fleet, every Premade use Tactics, and Tactics that counter or win against other Tactics or Setups get Nerf Crys. But when it comes to the factor to winning all Fleets are the same, they use what they have or want to use. Some Fleets go even further and want the whole thing balanced to their advantage, when those changes will come it will help them a few days, then the others will adapt and that is an endless cycle.
Actually many that post regularly agreed to those rules even some fleets that like to SS constantly. What is fun are the ones that rely on the power and defend you do not find many of their ships in the tourney. I am of the mindset that powers that are broke, take advantage of holes in the games mechanics should not be allowed. There are a few I wished were added like the GW on top of TR and then EWP, the coding in the game is so inefficient that you actual will lose the visual graphic for 1 or 2 of the powers so you end up flying through a "cloaked" EWP gas cloud or fly to close to an invisible GW.
Well its just a estimate SS3 is where evasive fails alot more
In the TSI fun day no SS was allowed the result healing was insane op and almost everybody had 2 Tac Teams that was not fun.
Opvp rulez as a holy Bible well sound abit odd but I still think if we all follow them we would have more fun, in the 2 last Opvp event the rules was inplace and all who partisipated had fun and there was no complains
the rules can always be changes ofcourse if things and opinion changes
Thats what I'm talking about. (You cannot change the Bible
The OPVP rules are the best thing we have to control never fixed STO issues but they must be changable.
Imo allowing but controlling FAW by keeping restrictions to ships (maybe even forbid beam escorts for that purpose) would be another way to get over the superior healing. Of course this needs some testing.
Till now the thread shows, a majority doesnt think the SS 3 restriction is fine how it is. Or is this just my reading?
Im sorry, but the above post is complete BS.
First off, on the argument that the rules are to follow our needs/tactics - TSI and Qew run very opposite ideal setups. Feds vs Klings, Heavy Heals vs Light Heals, Consistant damage vs Burst damage, Damage Cruisers vs Full Aux cruisers. Very different playstyles yet you have a baseless claim saying this caters to both of our tactics.
Our team would rather have things like mines (more cover for our cloaked ships, our full aux healers can clear them + forces enemy damage cruisers to clear instead of shooting our ships) and SS III (Klings have a carrier with a near useless sci commander with SSIII as the only viable ability, as they all require positioning/arcs - also our cloaked ships will not be hit by SS, plus Birds can have sci teams easier than fed escorts in order to clear).
Unfortunately it is really really annoying for fed teams, and I can see it on those rare days we hop on feds.
The second point is that, if these cheese skills were allowed, Qew and TSI would start to use them as well and be even better than we are now.
Third, other competitive multiplayer games do restrict cheese. Servers will make competitive rules, such as limiting the # of certain classes, adding weapon restrictions, etc. Cryptic is not Blizzard when it comes to trying to balance the game. In fact, I dont think Cryptic gives PvP a look when they come up with their latest additions, and after a year we realized that (hence OPVP tournament rules).
The fact is, scramble sensors is not fun. FAW is broken and is not fun. Mines without FAW is not fun. They also take no skill to use and have no viable counters.
In the end, the dominant teams are still going to win. It will just be a lot less fun for the loser, and probably the winner as well.
first i have to agree with raphezir..... personally....i don't care what some guys from a known QQ channel have to say..which skills are allowed or not:p
about this..... i expect you guys asking for a tac team ban for the next tourny...so cloaked ambushs are easier lol
and i had to laugh about this one:
SERIOUSLY^^...after the final...15:1....those guys who lost complained about EXTEND SHIELDS so badly.....even about EXTEND 1..lmao
and the raging lasted for days..here one infamous quote:
"Blah blah blah, you and everyone else knows its garbage. You knew extend shields were garbage. Yet you choose to run it"
Therefore your team is not on the cheese free list, simple as that....good day!
and in the other event one klingon player complained about scramble 1....
YOU are not the sto police....what you call "cheese" are only ingame skills/powers/tactics for others!
and MY team isnt the team getting *****ed at every night because we bring all these things that OPVP rules prohibit. I even see players in different zones during pvp *****ing at you for all the scrambles you bring. They must be having a ton of fun too eh?
This is NOT about furthering ourselves. Like i said these are rules set by two very very different teams, so it is impossible to bend the rules to benefit us both. The rules are there to make a better game.
No matter what we bring, people QewQew. What's the bottom line, common denominator? They lost.
Control FAW with only a number of ships having it pehaps yes.
And the ppl who want SS 3 is FSers and we all know their space tactics