A refitted Nova Class starship, the Rhode Island's Photonic Displacer Module creates the perfect decoy. Check it out in this video and learn more in the C-Store.
The Rhode Island has received very strong feedback from the playerbase, feedback I have not seen decently considered in any way as to what the community wanted to see from it: a ship that would not break present ship balance and be of Tier 3 rather than Tier 2.5 strength, and a ship that could be had as a retrofit at endgame.
I've seen one argument from Al Rivera saying how it could look ridiculous to have such a small ship be considered as a tier 5 vessel... but the very same applies to the Defiant. Hence, I find that the arguments against the Rhode Island being a worthy addition to the Tier 5 ship lineup is flawed. Maybe even something of a double standard.
I'm sorry, but based on what I've seen, I'm mildly displeased. I don't intend to promote the inlying practices presented either, nor the apparent refusal to give proper attention to what the end-users that were inclined to the topic wanted. Hence, I am not buying it.
Cryptic will be more likely to get my money when they more properly appeal to the desires of potential customers.
I agree to vote no with my dollars, even though I will make Lt cmmdr on one of my characters by early tonight and this ship would be perfect for him. I hope we as customers can be allowed to communicate our discontent constructively with Cryptic on this matter.
I also hope that those of us who can see the faults of the Rhode Island will be allowed to educate our less aware commades without silencing.
I'm fine with the ship being Tier 2, having a console, and costing 800 C-Points ($10 USD).
What I'm not fine with:
* No in-game method to obtain (sorry, this really needs to be available from Day 1 or else its a violation of the principle that no game-altering items are in C-Store)
* Unbalanced - console aside, it is better in three ways over the Tier 2 Science Vessel:
1) Has an additional engineering console
2) Has a 2nd lieutenant level science bridge officer (as opposed to default Tier 2's ensign level)
3) Has an impulse modifier of 0.20 instead of 0.15
What downsides does it have? None. Same hull, crew size, fore and aft weapons, tactical and science consoles, turn rate, inertia, and special abilities.
In other words -- this is the definition of a "pay-to-win" ship -- something you can only get by dishing out real cash and is the same or better in every regard. I'm really disappointed that after a 2 week delay based on tester feedback that this had none of the changes implemented.
power does not even work that great in that video on youtube lol. at 43 seconds Before they cut away from the warbird firing on the original ship you see a photon torpedo not go to the decoy but to the orignial ship.
Fool us once shame on you, Trying to fool us twice well that is a shame on the buyers who go for this gimmick.
My thoughts are that players should have a had in building their own ship. by this I am talking about internal organs and systems. all ship must look the same outside to abide by starfleet regulations, but internally ships can be different. Hell its canon that all starfleet ships not be the same inside. Perhaps if the dev looked at some of star trek technical shows and gave the players access to the ship yards we could make better ship attributes then you The Greed store could then sell its consols to us at a reduced price value.
I'm fine with the ship being Tier 2, having a console, and costing 800 C-Points ($10 USD).
What I'm not fine with:
* No in-game method to obtain (sorry, this really needs to be available from Day 1 or else its a violation of the principle that no game-altering items are in C-Store)
* Unbalanced - console aside, it is better in three ways over the Tier 2 Science Vessel:
1) Has an additional engineering console
2) Has a 2nd lieutenant level science bridge officer (as opposed to default Tier 2's ensign level)
3) Has an impulse modifier of 0.20 instead of 0.15
What downsides does it have? None. Same hull, crew size, fore and aft weapons, tactical and science consoles, turn rate, inertia, and special abilities.
In other words -- this is the definition of a "pay-to-win" ship -- something you can only get by dishing out real cash and is the same or better in every regard. I'm really disappointed that after a 2 week delay based on tester feedback that this had none of the changes implemented.
Agreed, furthermore there's a genuine threat of this ship setting an example for future C-store ships. Imagine a T5 C-store only ship with 2 Cmdr. BO slots. It's something that is fairly likely to happen if things like the Rhode Island are tolerated ladies and gentlemen, think about that.
-no to "pay-to-win"
-no to "you'll be able to get this through in-game means.....someday"
-no to ignoring stacks of player input
-no to silencing respectful dissent in these forums. Agreeing with "the party line" should not be a prerequisite to sharing your opinion.
A refitted Nova Class starship, the Rhode Island's Photonic Displacer Module creates the perfect decoy. Check it out in this video and learn more in the C-Store.
I'll also be voting with my wallet on this one. So another definite no I'm afraid...
I absolutely endorse the idea of including consoles with new ships that can be moved to higher tier ships. This is good enough to make these lower tier ships tempting to buy IMO. However, I am unhappy with the idea of X.5 ships being sold in the C-store.edit While I do have faith in Cryptic that the ship will be made available for in game currency eventually, I do feel that this sets a dangerous precedent for the future. /edit Had this ship just been left as a T2 skin with console or fully upgraded to a T3 ship with console, I would have been happy to purchase it.
As it stands, I cannot in good conscience purchase it, which is a real shame as the console was rather fun to use during testing on Tribble.
Maybe if enough people *don't* buy this you can change it to a normal T2 ship, lower the price, and refund the people that do buy it the difference.
That would be the right thing to do Hurley. Unfortunatly, I have a feeling this has little chance of happening, seeing how they are already treating their customers
I've seen one argument from Al Rivera saying how it could look ridiculous to have such a small ship be considered as a tier 5 vessel... but the very same applies to the Defiant. Hence, I find that the arguments against the Rhode Island being a worthy addition to the Tier 5 ship lineup is flawed. Maybe even something of a double standard.
.
Did you watch any of the shows? The defiant is a warp core with engines and guns strapped to it. The nova is a traditional designed ship. It makes perfect sense the defiant refit is tier 5 considering it was designed specifically as a warship..not a science lab
Did you watch any of the shows? The defiant is a warp core with engines and guns strapped to it. The nova is a traditional designed ship. It makes perfect sense the defiant refit is tier 5 considering it was designed specifically as a warship..not a science lab
actually, canonically, we know little about the nova, and even less then the rhod isalnd variant.. so you could be very wrong.
As far as the RI.....I'm torn....I'm a C-Store aholic, and I REALLY WANT THIS SHIP!!!!.....but part of me wants to boycott it due to the apparent lack of concern over the "Pay to Win" issues that the players have been QUITE vocal about.
What to do?
"My mind keeps telling me NOOOO........... but my wallet, my wallet keep telling me YES......"
Not interested. Wish you guys had swapped this one with the Klingon Academy on the calendar and had given this one more consideration.
The console is a good idea. The extra station and console slot aren't.
And, really, you guys should really look at simul-launching any mechanically novel C-Store items with their in-game way of being earned or even launching the in-game way first with a warning it will be on the C-Store. I know there will ostensibly one, eventually, but even if STO went FTP, there's too much focus on selling versus earning.
I was playing Champions last night and the difference is marked. When I buy things in Champs, even mechanical things, it doesn't feel imbalanced and, if it is, the bulk of the game is still fairly full of content and there's a constant feeling that I'm earning stuff.
I have said this for a long time now: the value of cash shop items is proportional to the value of equivalent earned items that are NOT offered in a cash shop. WoW can charge $25 for a mount because there are tons of mounts not for sale for cash that take hours or days to get. Those "not for sale" items create value for the cash shop item. They make the player say, "Wow. For something like X, I'd ordinarily do Y."
There is very little in STO like that and so it feels like an item shop with about half a game attached. It's not a bad half a game but it's not terribly complete and there need to be items which are witheld from the C-Store which give the C-Store items value and the gap between in-game release and C-Store release of items needs to come down. Otherwise it will cut into your C-Store revenues too. Maybe just stick to costumes and ship interiors for awhile until you guys figure out what's rubbing so many people wrong here that didn't ruffle nearly as many feathers with past releases.
CO, right now, feels like a very nice game with a very nice item shop attached. They should be what you shoot for at this point.
A refitted Nova Class starship, the Rhode Island's Photonic Displacer Module creates the perfect decoy. Check it out in this video and learn more in the C-Store.
I do want to point out that they probably can't change the Rhode Island's stats now that they have advertised it - since its on sale and I'm sure people are already buying it up.
We can only hope that poor sales inform them to do it different on the next one. We'll see.
Regardless, if they DO change things in the future, then we'll still have this ship with Overpowered stats, and thus the normal t2 nova is worthless.
The Rhode Island variant is more than competant at being a tier 5, as can be seen in Voyager's series finale "Endgame". Unfortunately in STO the ship is the wrong tier, is unobtainable in game and the players voiced their displeasure in the lead up to release (moreso than any other ship) and not an ounce of notice was taken by TPTB. So I for one, who has been longing for this ship since the game started will not be purchasing it.!
I'm fine with the ship being Tier 2, having a console, and costing 800 C-Points ($10 USD).
What I'm not fine with:
* No in-game method to obtain (sorry, this really needs to be available from Day 1 or else its a violation of the principle that no game-altering items are in C-Store)
* Unbalanced - console aside, it is better in three ways over the Tier 2 Science Vessel:
1) Has an additional engineering console
2) Has a 2nd lieutenant level science bridge officer (as opposed to default Tier 2's ensign level)
3) Has an impulse modifier of 0.20 instead of 0.15
What downsides does it have? None. Same hull, crew size, fore and aft weapons, tactical and science consoles, turn rate, inertia, and special abilities.
In other words -- this is the definition of a "pay-to-win" ship -- something you can only get by dishing out real cash and is the same or better in every regard. I'm really disappointed that after a 2 week delay based on tester feedback that this had none of the changes implemented.
It's Tier 2 though, so what does it matter? Basically, you've got a ship that's a little more powerful than the Nova at destroying already easy enemies. What are you going to do, PvP with it? Really? I understand that it's more powerful than its in-game conterpart but to what effect?
Let's boil this down to what it really is : 800 CP for a console.
A refitted Nova Class starship, the Rhode Island's Photonic Displacer Module creates the perfect decoy. Check it out in this video and learn more in the C-Store.
Not happening. Honestly Cryptic, I've been on your side for a number of things (being labelled an apologist from time to time). This was just brutal however. The community response was quite vocal that this ship needed further tweaking (e.g. it being OP'd) and I always seemed to notice threads being moved into the categories where threads die and are never read.
Your customers aren't happy. Notice that. After your rocky Season 4 launch you should be taking heed in what the community supports and take their suggestions under serious consideration.
To the players I say this, educate your fellow players on what voting with your wallet means and if they don't want to see P2W items in the C-Store, then DO NOT buy this item.
Actually it would make a lot of sense for them to go back and add the 2nd Lt. Boff to ALL of the T2 ships, not just this one.
I mean, the lower levels are a bit of a snoozefest, so if its okay for this ship to grant you 2 extra powers (the console and the new Boff skill) then it should be okay for the default ships to gain that 1 additional power as well. And the console slot.
It's Tier 2 though, so what does it matter? Basically, you've got a ship that's a little more powerful than the Nova at destroying already easy enemies. What are you going to do, PvP with it? Really? I understand that it's more powerful than its in-game conterpart but to what effect?
Let's boil this down to what it really is : 800 CP for a console.
Yes, and that's one of the problems, it's transferable to any science ship, like certain science ships needed more survivability.....
Comments
Disappointing.
This one is a pass. I won't pay to support the ship tiers moving in this direction.
I've seen one argument from Al Rivera saying how it could look ridiculous to have such a small ship be considered as a tier 5 vessel... but the very same applies to the Defiant. Hence, I find that the arguments against the Rhode Island being a worthy addition to the Tier 5 ship lineup is flawed. Maybe even something of a double standard.
I'm sorry, but based on what I've seen, I'm mildly displeased. I don't intend to promote the inlying practices presented either, nor the apparent refusal to give proper attention to what the end-users that were inclined to the topic wanted. Hence, I am not buying it.
Cryptic will be more likely to get my money when they more properly appeal to the desires of potential customers.
I also hope that those of us who can see the faults of the Rhode Island will be allowed to educate our less aware commades without silencing.
What I'm not fine with:
* No in-game method to obtain (sorry, this really needs to be available from Day 1 or else its a violation of the principle that no game-altering items are in C-Store)
* Unbalanced - console aside, it is better in three ways over the Tier 2 Science Vessel:
1) Has an additional engineering console
2) Has a 2nd lieutenant level science bridge officer (as opposed to default Tier 2's ensign level)
3) Has an impulse modifier of 0.20 instead of 0.15
What downsides does it have? None. Same hull, crew size, fore and aft weapons, tactical and science consoles, turn rate, inertia, and special abilities.
In other words -- this is the definition of a "pay-to-win" ship -- something you can only get by dishing out real cash and is the same or better in every regard. I'm really disappointed that after a 2 week delay based on tester feedback that this had none of the changes implemented.
Fool us once shame on you, Trying to fool us twice well that is a shame on the buyers who go for this gimmick.
My thoughts are that players should have a had in building their own ship. by this I am talking about internal organs and systems. all ship must look the same outside to abide by starfleet regulations, but internally ships can be different. Hell its canon that all starfleet ships not be the same inside. Perhaps if the dev looked at some of star trek technical shows and gave the players access to the ship yards we could make better ship attributes then you The Greed store could then sell its consols to us at a reduced price value.
Agreed, furthermore there's a genuine threat of this ship setting an example for future C-store ships. Imagine a T5 C-store only ship with 2 Cmdr. BO slots. It's something that is fairly likely to happen if things like the Rhode Island are tolerated ladies and gentlemen, think about that.
-no to "pay-to-win"
-no to "you'll be able to get this through in-game means.....someday"
-no to ignoring stacks of player input
-no to silencing respectful dissent in these forums. Agreeing with "the party line" should not be a prerequisite to sharing your opinion.
No thank you.
I absolutely endorse the idea of including consoles with new ships that can be moved to higher tier ships. This is good enough to make these lower tier ships tempting to buy IMO. However, I am unhappy with the idea of X.5 ships being sold in the C-store. edit While I do have faith in Cryptic that the ship will be made available for in game currency eventually, I do feel that this sets a dangerous precedent for the future. /edit Had this ship just been left as a T2 skin with console or fully upgraded to a T3 ship with console, I would have been happy to purchase it.
As it stands, I cannot in good conscience purchase it, which is a real shame as the console was rather fun to use during testing on Tribble.
That would be the right thing to do Hurley. Unfortunatly, I have a feeling this has little chance of happening, seeing how they are already treating their customers
Did you watch any of the shows? The defiant is a warp core with engines and guns strapped to it. The nova is a traditional designed ship. It makes perfect sense the defiant refit is tier 5 considering it was designed specifically as a warship..not a science lab
actually, canonically, we know little about the nova, and even less then the rhod isalnd variant.. so you could be very wrong.
(Grabs popcorn and starts watching thread)
As far as the RI.....I'm torn....I'm a C-Store aholic, and I REALLY WANT THIS SHIP!!!!.....but part of me wants to boycott it due to the apparent lack of concern over the "Pay to Win" issues that the players have been QUITE vocal about.
What to do?
"My mind keeps telling me NOOOO........... but my wallet, my wallet keep telling me YES......"
:eek:
The console is a good idea. The extra station and console slot aren't.
And, really, you guys should really look at simul-launching any mechanically novel C-Store items with their in-game way of being earned or even launching the in-game way first with a warning it will be on the C-Store. I know there will ostensibly one, eventually, but even if STO went FTP, there's too much focus on selling versus earning.
I was playing Champions last night and the difference is marked. When I buy things in Champs, even mechanical things, it doesn't feel imbalanced and, if it is, the bulk of the game is still fairly full of content and there's a constant feeling that I'm earning stuff.
I have said this for a long time now: the value of cash shop items is proportional to the value of equivalent earned items that are NOT offered in a cash shop. WoW can charge $25 for a mount because there are tons of mounts not for sale for cash that take hours or days to get. Those "not for sale" items create value for the cash shop item. They make the player say, "Wow. For something like X, I'd ordinarily do Y."
There is very little in STO like that and so it feels like an item shop with about half a game attached. It's not a bad half a game but it's not terribly complete and there need to be items which are witheld from the C-Store which give the C-Store items value and the gap between in-game release and C-Store release of items needs to come down. Otherwise it will cut into your C-Store revenues too. Maybe just stick to costumes and ship interiors for awhile until you guys figure out what's rubbing so many people wrong here that didn't ruffle nearly as many feathers with past releases.
CO, right now, feels like a very nice game with a very nice item shop attached. They should be what you shoot for at this point.
No, thank you.
KOS
We can only hope that poor sales inform them to do it different on the next one. We'll see.
Regardless, if they DO change things in the future, then we'll still have this ship with Overpowered stats, and thus the normal t2 nova is worthless.
It's Tier 2 though, so what does it matter? Basically, you've got a ship that's a little more powerful than the Nova at destroying already easy enemies. What are you going to do, PvP with it? Really? I understand that it's more powerful than its in-game conterpart but to what effect?
Let's boil this down to what it really is : 800 CP for a console.
Would have bought in a heartbeat if all those p2W concerns had been listened to and acted upon.
This time: No Way!
Not happening. Honestly Cryptic, I've been on your side for a number of things (being labelled an apologist from time to time). This was just brutal however. The community response was quite vocal that this ship needed further tweaking (e.g. it being OP'd) and I always seemed to notice threads being moved into the categories where threads die and are never read.
Your customers aren't happy. Notice that. After your rocky Season 4 launch you should be taking heed in what the community supports and take their suggestions under serious consideration.
To the players I say this, educate your fellow players on what voting with your wallet means and if they don't want to see P2W items in the C-Store, then DO NOT buy this item.
I mean, the lower levels are a bit of a snoozefest, so if its okay for this ship to grant you 2 extra powers (the console and the new Boff skill) then it should be okay for the default ships to gain that 1 additional power as well. And the console slot.
Problem solved!
Yes, and that's one of the problems, it's transferable to any science ship, like certain science ships needed more survivability.....