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Tractor Beam Defense

SystemSystem Member, NoReporting Posts: 178,019 Arc User
edited June 2012 in PvP Gameplay
So, with how prevalent tractor beams are as of late, I've had to make sure my escorts have backup Boffs with PH, so that I can switch them in when I need to. I ran into a complication last night though. I was on the wrong side of a 3v4 Captain level match in my SciBoP. Two science vessels kept tractoring me, I'd counter with either PH, APO, or evasives, but then I'd get subnuked and immediately blown up before I had time to react. I did my best to hit & run, killing my defiant target and then using evasives to get out of the battle in order to battle cloak, but between those two sci's ganging up on me, cool downs, and subnukes, it was just futile. I was at least able to kill that defiant before I died most of the time, but it was just frustrating. Lost the match 10 to 15.

So, am I supposed to run two copies of PH now, on top of APO, for when I get subnuked? How else am I supposed to deal with this issue? It's getting silly now.
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Comments

  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited August 2011
    How about you just accept that of two sci captains together decide to focus their debuffs/control abilities on you you are likely to pop, without assistance?

    Why should you be able to, effectively, tank the sci spam abilities of two other ships ganging up on you and still win? In a BoP no less.

    EDIT: sorry if this comes off as harsh, but I like to play my sci/sci and don't want unnecessary nerfs :P
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited August 2011
    I'm not calling for nerfs, I'm asking how I should deal with this. Expecting to die in almost every encounter, even though I'm in a BoP, does not seem satisfactory to me. I think I miraculously had some healing support in this PuG last night, but I still died five times.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited August 2011
    1) Get good healing from your team and switch to shield power.
    2) Evasives+engine power.

    Since I have no PH or APO on my escort, those are my only real options. Against a co-ordinated group with a Pug though, you are probably going to die either way.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited August 2011
    Cattivo80 wrote: »
    I'm not calling for nerfs, I'm asking how I should deal with this. Expecting to die in almost every encounter, even though I'm in a BoP, does not seem satisfactory to me. I think I miraculously had some healing support in this PuG last night, but I still died five times.

    I'm not saying you should go into every encounter and expect to die, but conversley you can't expect to not die every time you get ganged up on.
    There's not really alot you can do, tbh.
    You used your tractor beam counters and got subnuked, so even if you had brought more, they would likely be on an extended GCD due to the subnuke.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited August 2011
    jam target sensors
    photonic shockwave 3km
    tractor repel
    polarize hull
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited August 2011
    Yeah, I did switch to engine power when I was using evasives. Pretty standard for me.

    Yeah, PSW is at the back of my mind. I should probably put that into my build anyway.

    I'm beginning to think I'll have to run two sci officers & one tac normally instead of one sci & two tacs (although that will be difficult because I want both TT1 & THY1). In retrospect, I should have switched out my ensign tac with a science boff with ST in order to clear the subnukes. Although, I died so quickly after getting subnuked, even with trying to get one of my EPtS's back up, that there wouldn't have been much time to use it. I think the cruiser, which was the fourth opponent, had a BOv ready for whenever I got immobilized.

    Dan, you're probably right. It was a 3v4 and my rank for this toon is only at Cap2, so expecting to not be challenged so intensely was unrealistic of me...
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited August 2011
    cavitto my fleet uses these a good bit, and we have good 3v3 in which i have gained tons of experience on dealing with tractor beams and target subsystems. most of them have been named here already, but if in defiant try running engines at 50 instead of the normal shields at 50...also deuterium burns will get you free, or just out of 5 clicks which is where you want to be. i had to nix the jam sensors, just not worth it with sciteam2 or tss2 can be there. but yeah, use that agility, get in and out quick like you said.

    but against 2 sci pilots who are working together and halfway decent...you should go down id say 8/10 times. if you can get away half the time id say you are a great pilot.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited August 2011
    Yeah, I typically put engines at 50 & shields at 25. Deuterium is a good idea though. I haven't bothered getting it for any of my toons lately because I would always always use them up quicker than I could regain them through that daily. Started using engine bats instead for my other characters, especially because I use BO3 for those other toons. Heh, I don't use engine bats on this SciBoP currently, but shield bats instead (started using them at lower levels when I was low on defense abilities, and ended up keeping them up to this current level). I guess switching out those for engine bats would be a good idea. Probably about time, as I have other defenses at this level and don't need shield bats to compensate anymore.

    Thanks everyone, I'm getting a lot of good ideas here.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited August 2011
    As a potentialy off topic suggestion for dealing with the Tractor beams, I say: moar beer! :)
    So it gets to the point where its just funny :)

    OR get on a TS/vent and just 'vent' to whomever is online so you dont explod while exploding :D

    PSW will prolly be your best deterrant if they are tractoring and just staying right on top of you.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited August 2011
    cmdraftbrn wrote: »
    jam target sensors
    photonic shockwave 3km
    tractor repel
    polarize hull

    Stay out of TB range hehe
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited August 2011
    Tractor Repulsors, Photonic Shockwaves, Deuterium Burns.
    Tricobalt weapons.

    For added hilarity counter tractor beam them back.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited August 2011
    I hear ya man. I was doing Captain level pvp with my SciBoP against multiple scis who tractored me and did everything a while ago.

    I just had to isolate them and get a little lucky too. I was rusty as hell too, and after a whole week of doing nothing but cruiser ship piloting who wouldn't be.

    I was getting destroyed so fast, and being on a team that didn't use hit-and-run tactics properly didn't help. But I finally got lucky and got on a team that did enough damage to help separate them a bit. I alpha'd the TRIBBLE out of both of those annoying scis multiple times.

    We still lost, but ah well.

    And to add to what was said here. I run engine power at 50 as well and use nothing but engine batteries too. I also experimented a bit with PSW at the captain level, but you lose too much DPS to make it worth it.

    I would also recommend you pack an EPTE 1 in place of EPTS 1. By the time you have to leave the fight to regroup with your battlecloak the EPTE 1 should be ready to be used to aid an escape.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited August 2011
    I ran TBR on my Destroyer for a few day. I learn its the perfect anti tractor power, because it pushes them out of there tractor range lol so tractor disengages. =) + it has other benifits
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited August 2011
    I ran TBR on my Destroyer for a few day. I learn its the perfect anti tractor power, because it pushes them out of there tractor range lol so tractor disengages. =) + it has other benifits

    Both my Intrepids run TBR, and it indeed a fun defence on multiple tractors. I like to scream "You shall not pass!" As I fire it off.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited August 2011
    You need a good team with crowd control abilities otherwise it will be fairly easy for the opposing team to chew your hull to bits. Of course if your lone wolfing it in a pug just avoid them and pick off someone licking their wounds
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited August 2011
    Also be aware there is a tractor beam bug / exploit going around that makes it immune to attack pattern omega, polarized hull etc. This was noticed after the last update. A bug has already been logged, but I would report it just the same if you come across someone abusing it.

    Obviously valid tractor beam usage still sucks lol, but some great feedback in this thread on that.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited August 2011
    Gefell wrote: »
    Also be aware there is a tractor beam bug / exploit going around that makes it immune to attack pattern omega, polarized hull etc. This was noticed after the last update. A bug has already been logged, but I would report it just the same if you come across someone abusing it.

    Obviously valid tractor beam usage still sucks lol, but some great feedback in this thread on that.

    You mean the one that has been in since launch where multiple tbs still slows the target? Even if it has APO or PH up?

    Nothing new here.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited August 2011
    Mavairo wrote:
    You mean the one that has been in since launch where multiple tbs still slows the target? Even if it has APO or PH up?

    Nothing new here.

    I have seen some immune to PSW.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited August 2011
    Mavairo wrote:
    You mean the one that has been in since launch where multiple tbs still slows the target? Even if it has APO or PH up?

    Nothing new here.

    No. I mean single beam being immune.

    Cheers
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited August 2011
    I ran TBR on my Destroyer for a few day. I learn its the perfect anti tractor power, because it pushes them out of there tractor range lol so tractor disengages. =) + it has other benifits

    This if you can fit it in. It has 5km range which is better than some other AoE sci disables. If you run at a high engine level you may even break it (ie get out of range) with your ship's momentum and just get slowed a little for a very brief second. I haven't done any testing, but the breen stuff feels like it moves a bit better than some other engines while under TB. Also, there's the engines w/AUX they may keep you moving I haven't used any in a long time though.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited August 2011
    Gefell wrote: »
    Also be aware there is a tractor beam bug / exploit going around that makes it immune to attack pattern omega, polarized hull etc. This was noticed after the last update. A bug has already been logged, but I would report it just the same if you come across someone abusing it.

    Obviously valid tractor beam usage still sucks lol, but some great feedback in this thread on that.
    Yeah, my PH failed at a critical moment in Kerrat last night - after it didn't activate the first time I pressed it. Between this and its shared cool down with HE, I think I'm going to use Jam Sensors as my backup to APO for breaking tractors.

    ...Although, I've heard recently that Jam is causing DC's for people now. Idk.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited August 2011
    Cattivo80 wrote: »
    Yeah, my PH failed at a critical moment in Kerrat last night - after it didn't activate the first time I pressed it. Between this and its shared cool down with HE, I think I'm going to use Jam Sensors as my backup to APO for breaking tractors.

    ...Although, I've heard recently that Jam is causing DC's for people now. Idk.

    It must be Areans that JS is causing DCs in because in CnH my raptor is constantly JS and no DCs all weekend. But I also heard the DC is not so much the JS as the ST used to clear it.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited August 2011
    I had a fleetie kill an instance using js the other day. I wasn't in with him, but the dissapointment thru teampeak made me all sad inside. But then we did dailies WITHOUT JS. And everyone was happy again with their double emblems.

    So it's happened to one person I know. He had no other explanation. Go go gadget cryptic servers!
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited August 2011
    Just imagine if SS DC'd a match many fleets would be so mad. :eek:
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited August 2011
    Just imagine if SS DC'd a match many fleets would be so mad. :eek:

    Hmmm... that might be just what we need to happen:o.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited August 2011
    Just imagine if SS DC'd a match

    Make it so, number 1 !!
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited August 2011
    Cattivo80 wrote: »
    So, am I supposed to run two copies of PH now, on top of APO, for when I get subnuked? How else am I supposed to deal with this issue? It's getting silly now.

    For TBs i use PH 2 or / and PSW and it's always working for me (PH 2 gives me also good stronger damage resistance against energy weapons like cannons and beams than PH 1) . On my BOPs I don't use versions 3 of any of APs because BOP is not an escort - sneaky & quick killing is the main purpose of this ship.
    Just imagine if SS DC'd a match many fleets would be so mad. :eek:

    Hehe I can imagine it. So, now we must ask Cryptic to create new bug with the same effect as JS + ST.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited June 2012
    How about you just accept that of two sci captains together decide to focus their debuffs/control abilities on you you are likely to pop, without assistance?

    Why should you be able to, effectively, tank the sci spam abilities of two other ships ganging up on you and still win? In a BoP no less.

    EDIT: sorry if this comes off as harsh, but I like to play my sci/sci and don't want unnecessary nerfs :P

    I find that tractor beam against bop is almost always death, and I activate BOTH APO and PH and still can't break some of these tractors even with evasive manuevers on top of that. I think the tractor beam is a little too strong sometimes. I also think that it is too easy for ships to defeat the cloak. many sci ships see right through the cloak like EVERY time. The cloak is the only defense a BOP has without it my tier 5 ship becomes a tier 3 ship
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited June 2012
    many sci ships see right through the cloak like EVERY time.
    If you ever see a swirl of blue around you, you've been scanned by a Science captain's innate scan ability and you're pretty much a sitting duck, visible from miles away. Also, high Aux power increases stealth detection, as well as there being c-store consoles that improve stealth detection.

    I don't blame a lot of the people who gear up their ships for the sole purpose of spotting cloaked ships from afar. Combating a cloaked target is infuriating most of the time unless you actually have a team that's worth a damn.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited June 2012
    Please don't feed the dead, thx.
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