The last round of so-called "PVP" that I played vs. Klingons did not resemble PVP at all. It was almost purely PVE. At one point I saw this Klingon carrier being followed around by six or seven BoPs. Just about any time I hit tab it was a PVE BoP. When I would target my teammates, their targets were usually PVE BoPs.
I was beginning to wonder if I accidentally went into Klingon Scout Force.
This is ridiculous. In what way is it "player vs. player" anymore?
Any actual Klingon players that I would try to fight would vanish into thin air as soon as their hull was below 50%, or fly away faster than any of our ships could go. Even with Evasive Maneuvers, Emergency Power to Engines, Aux to Dampeners, and an Engine Battery popped, I could not catch up to any of the Klingon ships that would run away at seemingly warp speed -- and by sacrificing shied and hull heals for the engine boosts, I made myself extra squishy, further quickening the inevitable.
So I ask you: how is this PVP? When you can't even fight the other players because they can exit the fight at will, at any time, and there's little or nothing you can do about it without making yourself extremely vulnerable? And meanwhile, more and more PVE spam continues to pile up?
I feel I play a fair bit of PVP on STO, I'm not the best, but I can tell when something's wrong.
SIDE NOTE: A lot of people whine about FAW, but it has at least five decent counters (scramble, beam target weapons, feedback pulse, mine spam/PVE spam, and aceton field) and it's possibly the only counter against all this PVE and mine spam that pollutes PvP matches.
Frankly I think the people who are campaigning to have FAW nerfed are either Klingon PvE spam players who want to become EVEN MOAR OP, Tac captains who are tired of getting second place in fleet actions behind beam boat Engineers, or mine spammers and tricobalt users, who want to eliminate the power that's stopping their attacks.
Meanwhile, I have never seen FAW cause unbalance in a PvP match, because people just use Scramble. Of course, then people also whine that Scramble is OP, although I think that's also debatable, since PvP is a team effort, and all the arguments for why it's OP are contingent upon what happens when you're hit with SS and your team does not Science Team you (like any good team would).
Are you trying to kill carriers with just cruisers? I think you'll be needing at least one escort. I can say the exact same thing about a 5 man zombie fed cruiser team, though if we didnt bring enough spike to the game, that would be our fault.
Carriers go down real fast when focused by decent escorts. When they die, they take all their bops with them.
The last round of so-called "PVP" that I played vs. Klingons did not resemble PVP at all. It was almost purely PVE. At one point I saw this Klingon carrier being followed around by six or seven BoPs. Just about any time I hit tab it was a PVE BoP. When I would target my teammates, their targets were usually PVE BoPs.
I was beginning to wonder if I accidentally went into Klingon Scout Force.
This is ridiculous. In what way is it "player vs. player" anymore?
Any actual Klingon players that I would try to fight would vanish into thin air as soon as their hull was below 50%, or fly away faster than any of our ships could go. Even with Evasive Maneuvers, Emergency Power to Engines, Aux to Dampeners, and an Engine Battery popped, I could not catch up to any of the Klingon ships that would run away at seemingly warp speed -- and by sacrificing shied and hull heals for the engine boosts, I made myself extra squishy, further quickening the inevitable.
So I ask you: how is this PVP? When you can't even fight the other players because they can exit the fight at will, at any time, and there's little or nothing you can do about it without making yourself extremely vulnerable? And meanwhile, more and more PVE spam continues to pile up?
I feel I play a fair bit of PVP on STO, I'm not the best, but I can tell when something's wrong.
SIDE NOTE: A lot of people whine about FAW, but it has at least five decent counters (scramble, beam target weapons, feedback pulse, mine spam/PVE spam, and aceton field) and it's possibly the only counter against all this PVE and mine spam that pollutes PvP matches.
Frankly I think the people who are campaigning to have FAW nerfed are either Klingon PvE spam players who want to become EVEN MOAR OP, Tac captains who are tired of getting second place in fleet actions behind beam boat Engineers, or mine spammers and tricobalt users, who want to eliminate the power that's stopping their attacks.
Meanwhile, I have never seen FAW cause unbalance in a PvP match, because people just use Scramble. Of course, then people also whine that Scramble is OP, although I think that's also debatable, since PvP is a team effort, and all the arguments for why it's OP are contingent upon what happens when you're hit with SS and your team does not Science Team you (like any good team would).
Amirite?
I'm curious as to what ship you fly and the type of engine you use.
I'd admit that it would be really nice to see them tweak the targeting option and UI to help us better deal with the amount of spam that we face at times. I do, however, take issue with the suggestion that this is specifically a Klink problem.
The last round of so-called "PVP" that I played vs. Klingons did not resemble PVP at all. It was almost purely PVE. At one point I saw this Klingon carrier being followed around by six or seven BoPs. Just about any time I hit tab it was a PVE BoP. When I would target my teammates, their targets were usually PVE BoPs.
I was beginning to wonder if I accidentally went into Klingon Scout Force.
This is ridiculous. In what way is it "player vs. player" anymore?
SIDE NOTE: A lot of people whine about FAW, but it has at least five decent counters (scramble, beam target weapons, feedback pulse, mine spam/PVE spam, and aceton field) and it's possibly the only counter against all this PVE and mine spam that pollutes PvP matches.
Frankly I think the people who are campaigning to have FAW nerfed are either Klingon PvE spam players who want to become EVEN MOAR OP, Tac captains who are tired of getting second place in fleet actions behind beam boat Engineers, or mine spammers and tricobalt users, who want to eliminate the power that's stopping their attacks.
Meanwhile, I have never seen FAW cause unbalance in a PvP match, because people just use Scramble. Of course, then people also whine that Scramble is OP, although I think that's also debatable, since PvP is a team effort, and all the arguments for why it's OP are contingent upon what happens when you're hit with SS and your team does not Science Team you (like any good team would).
Carriers are OP and can't be killed. I know, I can't kill them either :rolleyes:
Hint filter out npcs from options menu.
What game you playing? Carriers are far from the undefeatable mammoths you guys make them out to be. They've been nerfed so hard from release and now with FAW and C:SV as it is they're pets die within seconds. If they're not, you're either not using FAW/C:SV or got something wrong with your power output. Honestly, since launch the number of pets they can launch has been lowered, their shields have been nerfed, and they only have six total weapons despite being the biggest ship in the game. Even the Kar'fi carrier with its extra weapon slot is more than kill-able.
What game you playing? Carriers are far from the unrepeatable mammoths you guys make them out to be. They've been nerfed so hard from release and now with FAW and C:SV as it is they're pets die within seconds. If they're not, you're either not using FAW/C:SV or got something wrong with your power output. Honestly, since launch the number of pets they can launch has been lowered, their shields have been nerfed, and they only have six total weapons despite being the biggest ship in the game. Even the Kar'fi carrier with its extra weapon slot is more than kill-able.
That thar be sarcasm, but fret not, as sarcasm often translates poorly via text. ^^
Hmm.. I dont have a problem against spam from a single carrier.. If Carriers send their spam against me,I can usually break formation and take those fighters/Frigates with me.. Then my team will have a much easier time hitting the nest.
And really... CSV is pretty effective at clearing spam, if you know how to use it, and if youre one of the cheap FAW gods, spam shouldt be an issue at all
I'll be frank, I really don't like the carrier much, and I especially despise seeing several in a match. But, they aren't that strong any more. I've taken out a fair few idiot carriers solo.
Granted, I would be much happier if the pets went away.
Regarding runners, that's why you need sci ships....
I think it's pretty misleading to paint this as a Klingon issue with the ammount of Sci fleet/MVAM/fleet support I see in PVP. Starfleet spams too.
Not to mention mines and scorpions. Neither of those have much effect other than making targeting difficult, so you can be pretty sure that when someone bothers to equip scorpions or is circling around in a cloud of mines, they are doing it specifically for the spam.
I wouldn't mind a general reduction in spam (even if numbers are reduced but power is increased), but it's definitely not just Klingons doing it. I'm a bit more tolerant of carriers doing it, since it's not possible to have a carrier without having it carry something.
I kind of think this is one of those divisions between PvE-players and PvP-players -- PvE players seem to love combat pets. If you've played other PvP games, think about how many really did a good job of balancing pet classes. As a rule, pet classes are always either too strong or too weak in PvP, because either the player is good without the pets so the pets make them too strong, or the player is balanced around having the pets most of the time so they are too weak when the pets get killed. The other problem is that either the pets are too vulnerable so players kill them a lot, or they are nearly as tough as another player so they don't get killed at all. I can't think of an MMO where they got PvP pets right, they *always* alternate between being underpowered and overpowered. Combat pets are one of those things that really ought to be left out if you design a PvP game -- no one has ever done them well.
I'd admit that it would be really nice to see them tweak the targeting option and UI to help us better deal with the amount of spam that we face at times. I do, however, take issue with the suggestion that this is specifically a Klink problem.
Wow this is a really god idea Hale, If only someone had thought about that before. Klinks are always a sepcific problem, but the targeting idea sounds great.
Wow this is a really god idea Hale, If only someone had thought about that before. Klinks are always a sepcific problem, but the targeting idea sounds great.
Yes, its klinks that are the problem, not the MVAM Sci Spammers with mines and scorpions. No thats fine, but if they got ridged foreheads its bad ju-ju.
Yes, its klinks that are the problem, not the MVAM Sci Spammers with mines and scorpions. No thats fine, but if they got ridged foreheads its bad ju-ju.
wow sarcasm translates poorly, thank god that some honorable warrior will start the QQ and make sure that irony won't get lost in this quadrant
What game you playing? Carriers are far from the undefeatable mammoths you guys make them out to be. They've been nerfed so hard from release and now with FAW and C:SV as it is they're pets die within seconds. If they're not, you're either not using FAW/C:SV or got something wrong with your power output. Honestly, since launch the number of pets they can launch has been lowered, their shields have been nerfed, and they only have six total weapons despite being the biggest ship in the game. Even the Kar'fi carrier with its extra weapon slot is more than kill-able.
Well you're right, I don't run FAW in PVP, because when I do, people complain about how it's OP. And I generally do well enough with Overloads and Quantums. But as for PVE like Klingon Scout Force, sure, I use FAW quite a bit.
And considering Klingon PVP is now a PVE fest, maybe I should run FAW in there, as I am a beam-boat, and can't use C:SV. Or I could spec into cannons and be a turret boat
But I don't understand how Birds of Prey are supposed to be coming out of those carriers. I mean, BoPs are not THAT small of a ship. Fighters I could see, but BoPs? It just seems kinda ridiculous.
Not to mention mines and scorpions. Neither of those have much effect other than making targeting difficult, so you can be pretty sure that when someone bothers to equip scorpions or is circling around in a cloud of mines, they are doing it specifically for the spam.
I wouldn't mind a general reduction in spam (even if numbers are reduced but power is increased), but it's definitely not just Klingons doing it. I'm a bit more tolerant of carriers doing it, since it's not possible to have a carrier without having it carry something.
Mines are a weapon, albeit a stationary one. An easy solution to this is not to limit how many mines can be placed, but to allow targeting beyond 10km for weapons like torpedoes where this would be realistic. This would also help to solve the issue of people fleeing just beyond the 10km targetin range when they're almost dead.
Even in the 1980s, air-to-air missiles had more of a range than 10km -- and that's with a projectile that requires continuous propulsion. 1980s cruise missiles can fly for 1700km. Spam like this would be less relevant with better targeting and longer-range weaponry.
I kind of think this is one of those divisions between PvE-players and PvP-players -- PvE players seem to love combat pets. If you've played other PvP games, think about how many really did a good job of balancing pet classes. As a rule, pet classes are always either too strong or too weak in PvP, because either the player is good without the pets so the pets make them too strong, or the player is balanced around having the pets most of the time so they are too weak when the pets get killed. The other problem is that either the pets are too vulnerable so players kill them a lot, or they are nearly as tough as another player so they don't get killed at all. I can't think of an MMO where they got PvP pets right, they *always* alternate between being underpowered and overpowered. Combat pets are one of those things that really ought to be left out if you design a PvP game -- no one has ever done them well.
I know "pets" is a term from fantasy/magic MMOs like WoW, and I know Cryptic is copying a lot od those mechanics into STO... that's where I think they've gone wrong. It's not that I blame them for copying a winning formula, but I just think that it's stupid within the science fiction concept of Star Trek. I really think the whole model of PVP needs a complete overhaul, from the game types to the relation of the outcome to the ongoing game story. But anyways.
Comments
AFK for a popcorn run
Are you trying to kill carriers with just cruisers? I think you'll be needing at least one escort. I can say the exact same thing about a 5 man zombie fed cruiser team, though if we didnt bring enough spike to the game, that would be our fault.
Carriers go down real fast when focused by decent escorts. When they die, they take all their bops with them.
I'm curious as to what ship you fly and the type of engine you use.
Hint filter out npcs from options menu.
So your complaining about this paradox you found?
What game you playing? Carriers are far from the undefeatable mammoths you guys make them out to be. They've been nerfed so hard from release and now with FAW and C:SV as it is they're pets die within seconds. If they're not, you're either not using FAW/C:SV or got something wrong with your power output. Honestly, since launch the number of pets they can launch has been lowered, their shields have been nerfed, and they only have six total weapons despite being the biggest ship in the game. Even the Kar'fi carrier with its extra weapon slot is more than kill-able.
Yes....and to even things out a bit,only the Feds will get that AOE torpedo.We don´t need it as the Feds don´t have access to PvE spam.....:rolleyes:
That thar be sarcasm, but fret not, as sarcasm often translates poorly via text. ^^
Ahhh yes, "sarc", my 2nd favorite type of "asm":cool:
And really... CSV is pretty effective at clearing spam, if you know how to use it, and if youre one of the cheap FAW gods, spam shouldt be an issue at all
Is the first evilg- or geekg- ?
It is nowhere near as bad as it used to be.
I'll be frank, I really don't like the carrier much, and I especially despise seeing several in a match. But, they aren't that strong any more. I've taken out a fair few idiot carriers solo.
Granted, I would be much happier if the pets went away.
Regarding runners, that's why you need sci ships....
I wouldn't mind a general reduction in spam (even if numbers are reduced but power is increased), but it's definitely not just Klingons doing it. I'm a bit more tolerant of carriers doing it, since it's not possible to have a carrier without having it carry something.
I kind of think this is one of those divisions between PvE-players and PvP-players -- PvE players seem to love combat pets. If you've played other PvP games, think about how many really did a good job of balancing pet classes. As a rule, pet classes are always either too strong or too weak in PvP, because either the player is good without the pets so the pets make them too strong, or the player is balanced around having the pets most of the time so they are too weak when the pets get killed. The other problem is that either the pets are too vulnerable so players kill them a lot, or they are nearly as tough as another player so they don't get killed at all. I can't think of an MMO where they got PvP pets right, they *always* alternate between being underpowered and overpowered. Combat pets are one of those things that really ought to be left out if you design a PvP game -- no one has ever done them well.
Wow this is a really god idea Hale, If only someone had thought about that before. Klinks are always a sepcific problem, but the targeting idea sounds great.
Yes, its klinks that are the problem, not the MVAM Sci Spammers with mines and scorpions. No thats fine, but if they got ridged foreheads its bad ju-ju.
Truer words were never posted on an internet forum, do you perchance know this player:
http://www.burningsea.com/forums/showthread.php?t=16509&highlight=pitchfork
From my viewpoint, make friends with a good Tac, learn a few basic combo's and watch the carriers go pop pop pop!
But I'm very new and an extremely average player.
wow sarcasm translates poorly, thank god that some honorable warrior will start the QQ and make sure that irony won't get lost in this quadrant
Well you're right, I don't run FAW in PVP, because when I do, people complain about how it's OP. And I generally do well enough with Overloads and Quantums. But as for PVE like Klingon Scout Force, sure, I use FAW quite a bit.
And considering Klingon PVP is now a PVE fest, maybe I should run FAW in there, as I am a beam-boat, and can't use C:SV. Or I could spec into cannons and be a turret boat
But I don't understand how Birds of Prey are supposed to be coming out of those carriers. I mean, BoPs are not THAT small of a ship. Fighters I could see, but BoPs? It just seems kinda ridiculous.
Mines are a weapon, albeit a stationary one. An easy solution to this is not to limit how many mines can be placed, but to allow targeting beyond 10km for weapons like torpedoes where this would be realistic. This would also help to solve the issue of people fleeing just beyond the 10km targetin range when they're almost dead.
Even in the 1980s, air-to-air missiles had more of a range than 10km -- and that's with a projectile that requires continuous propulsion. 1980s cruise missiles can fly for 1700km. Spam like this would be less relevant with better targeting and longer-range weaponry.
I know "pets" is a term from fantasy/magic MMOs like WoW, and I know Cryptic is copying a lot od those mechanics into STO... that's where I think they've gone wrong. It's not that I blame them for copying a winning formula, but I just think that it's stupid within the science fiction concept of Star Trek. I really think the whole model of PVP needs a complete overhaul, from the game types to the relation of the outcome to the ongoing game story. But anyways.
Grabs popcorn.