I find myself in disagreement with Admiral Black as well. The Federation will not cede it's territory in the Pi Canis Sector, just for Peace with the Klingons. There are worlds and species in that sector that rely upon the Federation for protection, and aid. Handing those worlds over to the Klingon Empire will only lead to further warfare in the future (See the cession of territory to the Cardassian Union following its conflict with the Federation prior to the Dominion War). In addition the cession of the territory in the Pi Canis Sector will only make the Federation look weak to the Empire, and again lead to further conflict in the future as the Klingons see us 'soft, and ripe for the taking'. Not to mention any influence the Gorn may have mustered in the Klingon's political system will be used to further their own expansionist policies if we conclude in any peace with the Empire that results in the loss of territory. No peace can be concluded with the Klingon Empire until we are in a strong enough position to considered worthy of respect by the Klingons, and at current we are making progress on diplomatic fronts where this position has been gained. Why throw that all away just for the sake of a temporary peace now, when we might achieve lasting peace later on down the road?
I find myself in disagreement with Admiral Black as well. The Federation will not cede it's territory in the Pi Canis Sector, just for Peace with the Klingons. There are worlds and species in that sector that rely upon the Federation for protection, and aid. Handing those worlds over to the Klingon Empire will only lead to further warfare in the future (See the cession of territory to the Cardassian Union following its conflict with the Federation prior to the Dominion War). In addition the cession of the territory in the Pi Canis Sector will only make the Federation look weak to the Empire, and again lead to further conflict in the future as the Klingons see us 'soft, and ripe for the taking'. Not to mention any influence the Gorn may have mustered in the Klingon's political system will be used to further their own expansionist policies if we conclude in any peace with the Empire that results in the loss of territory. No peace can be concluded with the Klingon Empire until we are in a strong enough position to considered worthy of respect by the Klingons, and at current we are making progress on diplomatic fronts where this position has been gained. Why throw that all away just for the sake of a temporary peace now, when we might achieve lasting peace later on down the road?
I agree. Plus we do not know about how far the Undine have penetrated our leadership. A solution to this problem could give us a better image to the Klingon Empire to their main reason for pursuing a war with the federation. Diplomatically, I believe this could give us a better edge towards lasting peace. A truce is useless when the Borg invade us, it will be automatic in the defense of the quadrant. Admiral Black's ideas are exactly what we want to avoid, more violence. I think we need a preemptive hunt for the infiltrators in our government and member worlds, but not of the violent sort one of perhaps Section 31 initiative with some airborne virus and or nanoprobe delivery. I wonder if this will be enough to sway the Klingon diplomats.
while i admire your goal for peace i can not agree with you wanting to go to war with the romulans. they are not our enemy. or giving up a large peice of space to the klingons. we should strive for peace but not at the federations expense. i can not agree with or support this treaty as an admiral in starfleet and a fleet commander in my fleet. im sorry i cant justify thios after the help we have givin the romulans or the remans.
I dont want to go to war with the romulan's at all I really want a peace treaty between us and the romulans, I know i threw out idead in this froum but they were jsut that ideas. I am a type of man who puts everything on the table and than sees which ideas are good and which are bad.
I am also working with section 31 to make sure that the undine infiltrators are gone we are quite certain they are but certain steps are being taken to make sure the no longer are amongst star fleet members and the high command. I cannot discuss this project further.
This assuming Section 31 has not been infiltrated by the Undine.
Exactly, we are not certain of Section 31 better to be certain instead of an illusive Section's word. Such as how and a certain measure to screen the section itself.
We have not way at all to Identify them as long as they are shifted... Oh well wait there is one certain way:
Just put the EVERYONE in a prison cell for a few weeks, and you will certainly see who turns into an undine or not.
And yeah that does work since we already know that they need some kind of medicine to keep their disguise.
My CMO also has a little pet theory about identifying them using Vulcan mind meld.
Doesn't matter though, even considering that all rights being protected by the Federation constitution are under reservation of statutory powers, forcing every Federation citizen to undergo Vulcan mind meld goes a bit to far.
I rather get attacked by someone I believed to be my friend than taking the exact basic rights and principles I've sworn to protect, when I entered Stafleet, from even one person.
I myself am not afraid of being replaced.
Both my wife and daugther would realize the difference, and so would I if one of them were going to be replaced...
In my opinion there are just two ways of how to end this masquerade:
Conquer or being conquered.
Either way, the usefullness of this whole guerillia tactics would go down to an amount where they might even condider stopping it, just saying.
As for section thrity-one, I've been asked by Admiral Quinn to directly respond to this issue:
Starfleet can neither confirm nor deny the existance of an organization called 'Section 31'.
anyone who wishes to attend the meeting just pm me and when you do pm me please give me your rank and the fleet and faction that your represent. Hope to see alot of Representative from both sides there the meeting is taking place at 8:00 pm Eastern Standard Time Tonight.
To the Brave and Honorable warriors of the Klingon Empire, In the past we have worked well together served together in battle and given blood for each other, We have each helped each other and served well in battle together because of this I feel it is time to work together again the call of battle is upon us the Undine and the Borg are upon us, let us fight together in battle and forge a might bond once more, This is my draft of a document to make this possible a cease fire agreement between the Federation and the Klingon Empire.
Cease Fire Agreement
The Purpose of this document is to create a cease fire agreement and to establish a joint military body between the United Federation of Planets herein referred to as UFP, The Klingon Empire herein referred to as KDF.
UFP, The UFP will cease any and all hostilities against both the KDF, The UFP also admits that the KDF saw the threat of the Undine before the UFP did and that the UFP was wrong for condemning the KDF invasion of the Gorn Hedgemony. The UFP also will not interfere in the affairs of the KDF and that the KDF may keep any and all territories they have taken and do with those territories as they wish. The UFP also recognizes the establishment of a neutral zone around the Mempa Sector and Eta Eridani and Omega Leonis Sector Blocks. The UFP also recognizes that the Mempa Sector belongs to the KDF. The UFP also will not interfere in the affairs of the KDF.
Furthermore, any territories conquered form the Borg and The Undine as well as any other threats are to be divided evenly between the UFP and the KDF. The UFP will cease any and all hostilities with the KDF, However both the KDF and the UFP and the RE may engage in war-games with each other. The UFP will also contribute to joint KDF and UFP and RE fleets, task-forces and space stations, with the goal of protecting both KDF and UFP and RE territories.
KDF, the KDF may keep any and all territories they have conquered. The KDF agrees to cease any and all hostilities with the UFP and the RE with the exception of war games and war exercises. The KDF will contribute as much as they possibly can to the joint military forces of the KDF and The UFP KDF also has the option of engaging in trade with the UFP but it does not have to.
All sides agree that any territories conquered form the Borg and The Undine as well as any other threats are to be divided evenly between the UFP and the KDF and the and all sides agree not to cross there respective neutral zones with the exception of join military bases that may be built in the neutral zones for security purposes such bases are to be jointly administered by the UFP, KDF and The cease fire and the establishment of the neutral zones and joint military forces takes effect upon the signing of this document by representatives of all sides.
there will be a meeting next week for the federation only to discuss a final cease fire agreement and what we are willing to offer. A date and time will be announced soon unless the federation agrees to the terms i have laid out i my draft.
And thus citizens of the Federation history repeats itself. Who would have thought the Federation would once again so cruelly abandon it's friends, allies, and citizens to the exigencies of peace at all costs. I would have thought that your "mighty" Federation had learned its lesson when it cruelly abandoned entire colonies and worlds to buy "peace" with the Cardassians. Yet again we see the Elites in your Federation willing to sell out colony worlds and non-human aliens for their own convenience. When will you learn that the Federation can NOT be trusted. After all yesterday they sold out the Gorn, who they allowed to be conquered while they claimed to be diplomatically pursuing "peace." Today? Today the Federation in the name of "peace" are abandoning their own colonists and allies who they swore to protect at all costs. Yet, now that they have to pay the price they are throwing your fellow citizens and allies to the wolves for political expediency. Now we can all see the worth of the Federations honor and the strength of their ideals.
The Romulan Star Empire however, has never abandoned our allies or our fellow citizens. Even now as we have faced the greatest crises in the history of our great Empire we have not fallen and we have not abandoned our ideals or citizens for temporary peace with the Klingons who have proven time and again they can not be trusted. Even now, we are engaged in war with the Klingons who, just like the Gorn, attacked us with no warning and swarmed over our border. Due to the aforementioned crises our defense faltered, but it DID NOT FAIL. We have held the line and we will push these animals out of our space. With the loss of Romulus and Remus the capital systems stranglehold on the political system has disappeared. Member races and colony worlds of the Empire are now equal. WE will NOT abandon you to our enemies, we can be TRUSTED to protect you. Leave the Federation who may sell you tomorrow to make peace with the Borg against the Undine as they once did, or who knows maybe this time they'll side with the Undine. Who can tell with such a fickle group. We however, are rebuilding and we will not forget our friends and allies, nor our enemies. Now is the time, join the Romulan Star Empire and WE will secure peace through strength.
And thus citizens of the Federation history repeats itself. Who would have thought the Federation would once again so cruelly abandon it's friends, allies, and citizens to the exigencies of peace at all costs. I would have thought that your "mighty" Federation had learned its lesson when it cruelly abandoned entire colonies and worlds to buy "peace" with the Cardassians. Yet again we see the Elites in your Federation willing to sell out colony worlds and non-human aliens for their own convenience. When will you learn that the Federation can NOT be trusted. After all yesterday they sold out the Gorn, who they allowed to be conquered while they claimed to be diplomatically pursuing "peace." Today? Today the Federation in the name of "peace" are abandoning their own colonists and allies who they swore to protect at all costs. Yet, now that they have to pay the price they are throwing your fellow citizens and allies to the wolves for political expediency. Now we can all see the worth of the Federations honor and the strength of their ideals.
The Romulan Star Empire however, has never abandoned our allies or our fellow citizens. Even now as we have faced the greatest crises in the history of our great Empire we have not fallen and we have not abandoned our ideals or citizens for temporary peace with the Klingons who have proven time and again they can not be trusted. Even now, we are engaged in war with the Klingons who, just like the Gorn, attacked us with no warning and swarmed over our border. Due to the aforementioned crises our defense faltered, but it DID NOT FAIL. We have held the line and we will push these animals out of our space. With the loss of Romulus and Remus the capital systems stranglehold on the political system has disappeared. Member races and colony worlds of the Empire are now equal. WE will NOT abandon you to our enemies, we can be TRUSTED to protect you. Leave the Federation who may sell you tomorrow to make peace with the Borg against the Undine as they once did, or who knows maybe this time they'll side with the Undine. Who can tell with such a fickle group. We however, are rebuilding and we will not forget our friends and allies, nor our enemies. Now is the time, join the Romulan Star Empire and WE will secure peace through strength.
The Federation is not as you describe and I have tried to seek a cease fire with the empire not one Representative of the Romulan empire showed up you seek to conquer and control we seek to fight the real threat without giving up our values, you speak of rebuilding than why not rebuild with a new attitude and explore new ways of thinking and being, why not do that, why cant we all work together to fight the real enemy the Borg and the Undine and the Iconians who are coming.
The Federation is not as you describe and I have tried to seek a cease fire with the empire not one Representative of the Romulan empire showed up you seek to conquer and control we seek to fight the real threat without giving up our values, you speak of rebuilding than why not rebuild with a new attitude and explore new ways of thinking and being, why not do that, why cant we all work together to fight the real enemy the Borg and the Undine and the Iconians who are coming.
I find that treaty is repeating the past once again. But if it helps against the coming forces I can support it. It appears that the Romulans did not wish to come but an eye should be kept on them none the less. But Admiral Black abandoning the sector to the Klingon's is exactly what they did before the Dominion War and look how that turned out. I simply say be careful of your choices and be wary of the consequences for everyone that is the weight of being a leader and a high ranking officer of the Federation. I don't think after the Iconians have been dealt with we are going to be in any shape to continue the war. That is what I find troubling about this agreement it only focuses on what is in front of us and not regard for the future repercussions of this. It is a step further in the right direction but I won't agree with leaving citizens out to suffer for the sake of oversight. I think leaving the borders as they were is completely acceptable. We can still give them our Undine infiltrators as we locate them, with an acceptable response from Section 31 not a casual brush off or BS line.
Admiral Black I was not aware that the Romulan Star Empire and the Federation were currently engaged in hostilities. I would be deeply saddened if the Federation has fallen even further from it's vaunted ideals and withdrawn from our current treaties without prior notification. However, that would be in line with the hypocrisy the Federation routinely displays.
Unfortunately Admiral Black, the Federation you represent is most assuredly as I describe. The fact that it's uncomfortable for you to hear the truth makes it no less accurate. The Romulan Empire has never expanded through force or conquest, unlike the Federation and your current absorption of our one time mutual enemies the Cardassian Union. Nor do we seek to control our galactic neighbors, again unlike the Federation. I find it unfathomable that you fail to see that in this instance the Federation is clearly in the wrong and in violation of it's ideals, but again such hypocrisy isn't unexpected as we are well used to it in our dealings with you.
Perhaps you missed my comments about the stranglehold that Romulus held on our internal politics no longer being present? I would hate to think you're simply responding to my call to arms to the non-Human members of the Federation with rote statements. We are rebuilding with a new attitude and I can assure you we are most definitely exploring new options of action.
The Romulan Star Empire gladly works with our galactic neighbors when such cooperation is necessary for the well being of us all. However, in this instance working with the Federation to help them make peace with the Klingons by offering up other species and your own citizens to slavery in the Klingon Empire is in opposition to our ideals. No. We will not help you sell other races into slavery simply to help you clean up another of your messes. You started the war with the Borg, you started the war with the Dominion, and you have started this war with the Undine. We are currently helping you clean up the galactic mess you started with the Borg and we assisted with the Dominion. One would think you'd have learned your lesson by now. The Romulan Star Empire is unfortunately not in a position at this time to help you clean up your mess once again. If you wish to sell those species you assured of protection and your own citizens into slavery how can we trust you to keep your word in any future treaty or alliance we might make? No, far better to crush the Klingons and liberate their enslaved worlds and deal with the Undine and Borg on our won then get stabbed in the back by the Federation.
The Federation is not as you describe and I have tried to seek a cease fire with the empire not one Representative of the Romulan empire showed up you seek to conquer and control we seek to fight the real threat without giving up our values, you speak of rebuilding than why not rebuild with a new attitude and explore new ways of thinking and being, why not do that, why cant we all work together to fight the real enemy the Borg and the Undine and the Iconians who are coming.
Admiral Black I was not aware that the Romulan Star Empire and the Federation were currently engaged in hostilities. I would be deeply saddened if the Federation has fallen even further from it's vaunted ideals and withdrawn from our current treaties without prior notification. However, that would be in line with the hypocrisy the Federation routinely displays.
Unfortunately Admiral Black, the Federation you represent is most assuredly as I describe. The fact that it's uncomfortable for you to hear the truth makes it no less accurate. The Romulan Empire has never expanded through force or conquest, unlike the Federation and your current absorption of our one time mutual enemies the Cardassian Union. Nor do we seek to control our galactic neighbors, again unlike the Federation. I find it unfathomable that you fail to see that in this instance the Federation is clearly in the wrong and in violation of it's ideals, but again such hypocrisy isn't unexpected as we are well used to it in our dealings with you.
Perhaps you missed my comments about the stranglehold that Romulus held on our internal politics no longer being present? I would hate to think you're simply responding to my call to arms to the non-Human members of the Federation with rote statements. We are rebuilding with a new attitude and I can assure you we are most definitely exploring new options of action.
The Romulan Star Empire gladly works with our galactic neighbors when such cooperation is necessary for the well being of us all. However, in this instance working with the Federation to help them make peace with the Klingons by offering up other species and your own citizens to slavery in the Klingon Empire is in opposition to our ideals. No. We will not help you sell other races into slavery simply to help you clean up another of your messes. You started the war with the Borg, you started the war with the Dominion, and you have started this war with the Undine. We are currently helping you clean up the galactic mess you started with the Borg and we assisted with the Dominion. One would think you'd have learned your lesson by now. The Romulan Star Empire is unfortunately not in a position at this time to help you clean up your mess once again. If you wish to sell those species you assured of protection and your own citizens into slavery how can we trust you to keep your word in any future treaty or alliance we might make? No, far better to crush the Klingons and liberate their enslaved worlds and deal with the Undine and Borg on our won then get stabbed in the back by the Federation.
What changes do you speak of? The Romulans are still engaging Federation Ships, I challenge you to stop the Federation hating and work with us. To sign a cease fire agreement with the federation I am trying to change things become partners with us forget the past let us look to the future together all three of us or at least Romulan and Federation can work together, I am challenging all Romulans to come to the peace table and sign a cease fire agreement, So the choice is yours back down and dont sign and things stay the same or man up and sign and work with us? I leave the choice to the Romulans after all we must all start somewhere.
What changes do you speak of? The Romulans are still engaging Federation Ships, I challenge you to stop the Federation hating and work with us. To sign a cease fire agreement with the federation I am trying to change things become partners with us forget the past let us look to the future together all three of us or at least Romulan and Federation can work together, I am challenging all Romulans to come to the peace table and sign a cease fire agreement, So the choice is yours back down and dont sign and things stay the same or man up and sign and work with us? I leave the choice to the Romulans after all we must all start somewhere.
Here I have to agree with the Admiral. I have been engaged by many romulan patrols with no provocation, not to mention the Romulan Civil War and Reman struggle for freedom. These conflicts are dragging the Federation into it. Honestly, I smell tripods at work and it has been shown that the Iconians are also manipulating this conflict as well. I think that with the old Romulan government in constant state of flux they will continue to destroy themselves. But I have to say Admiral being confrontational is an uneasy and often fatal mistake in diplomacy.
You're government engaged in illegal cloak research Admiral do not have the temerity to speak to me of internal Romulan matters. We allowed you to handle your problem internally I would have expected the Federation to allow us the same courtesy, oh wait that's right there's that hypocrisy. If your vessels cross into Romulan territory we WILL retaliate. There have been numerous and repeated violations not only of the neutral zone but also of Romulan territory. As things stand now you are lucky that WE haven't declared war on the Federation for violating our borders and our mutual treaties. How DARE you lecture us on the issue of border skirmishes when one of your vessels boarded and exterminated the personnel of a medical station which had successfully figured out how to reveal the Undine. You claim to be concerned about them and yet you murder an entire station full of scientists and destroy their research. How typical of the Federation, "man" up? How humanocentric. You attempt t0 lecture the Empire for defending ourselves from YOUR aggression. We can not forget the past as you put it because your treaty and territorial violations are happening as we speak. A cease fire implies that there are declared hostilities, which I find interesting since there have been none, unless we're mistaken in believing that your vessels and personnel who have violated our territory and involved themselves in our internal affairs where operating independently. It is not the Romulan Star Empire who needs to show good faith, it is the Federation.
What changes do you speak of? The Romulans are still engaging Federation Ships, I challenge you to stop the Federation hating and work with us. To sign a cease fire agreement with the federation I am trying to change things become partners with us forget the past let us look to the future together all three of us or at least Romulan and Federation can work together, I am challenging all Romulans to come to the peace table and sign a cease fire agreement, So the choice is yours back down and dont sign and things stay the same or man up and sign and work with us? I leave the choice to the Romulans after all we must all start somewhere.
You're government engaged in illegal cloak research Admiral do not have the temerity to speak to me of internal Romulan matters. We allowed you to handle your problem internally I would have expected the Federation to allow us the same courtesy, oh wait that's right there's that hypocrisy. If your vessels cross into Romulan territory we WILL retaliate. There have been numerous and repeated violations not only of the neutral zone but also of Romulan territory. As things stand now you are lucky that WE haven't declared war on the Federation for violating our borders and our mutual treaties. How DARE you lecture us on the issue of border skirmishes when one of your vessels boarded and exterminated the personnel of a medical station which had successfully figured out how to reveal the Undine. You claim to be concerned about them and yet you murder an entire station full of scientists and destroy their research. How typical of the Federation, "man" up? How humanocentric. You attempt t0 lecture the Empire for defending ourselves from YOUR aggression. We can not forget the past as you put it because your treaty and territorial violations are happening as we speak. A cease fire implies that there are declared hostilities, which I find interesting since there have been none, unless we're mistaken in believing that your vessels and personnel who have violated our territory and involved themselves in our internal affairs where operating independently. It is not the Romulan Star Empire who needs to show good faith, it is the Federation.
we can sit here all day and point fingers, it wont do anyone any good, we have provided aid to the Romulans, why dont we work towards the future why cant we be allied? why cant we both make gestures of good faith, Stop living in and discussing the past you say you work with your galactic neighbors, then start working with us and together we can stop the Borg and the Undine.
Admiral did you even hear what I was saying? Or where you simply waiting to make your point as opposed to dealing with what I stated? The Romulan Star Empire has stated it's position clearly and if the Federation can't provide someone who understands diplomacy then any hope of a treaty is lost. To speak in such a manner makes it evident that you do not in fact desire a peace treaty and are simply giving lip service to such an idea while trying to obviously provoke the Klingons, let alone the Romulan Star Empire, into greater hostilities.
we can sit here all day and point fingers, it wont do anyone any good, we have provided aid to the Romulans, why dont we work towards the future why cant we be allied? why cant we both make gestures of good faith, Stop living in and discussing the past you say you work with your galactic neighbors, then start working with us and together we can stop the Borg and the Undine.
Admiral did you even hear what I was saying? Or where you simply waiting to make your point as opposed to dealing with what I stated? The Romulan Star Empire has stated it's position clearly and if the Federation can't provide someone who understands diplomacy then any hope of a treaty is lost. To speak in such a manner makes it evident that you do not in fact desire a peace treaty and are simply giving lip service to such an idea while trying to obviously provoke the Klingons, let alone the Romulan Star Empire, into greater hostilities.
Whoa hold on one sec why dont we meet for diplomatic talks in I will bring Federation Representatives including those more experienced in diplomacy and you can bring Romulan Representatives I already have a secure federation ship we can meet on if that is alright with you this way we cannot be disturbed by trollers.
Admiral did you even hear what I was saying? Or where you simply waiting to make your point as opposed to dealing with what I stated? The Romulan Star Empire has stated it's position clearly and if the Federation can't provide someone who understands diplomacy then any hope of a treaty is lost. To speak in such a manner makes it evident that you do not in fact desire a peace treaty and are simply giving lip service to such an idea while trying to obviously provoke the Klingons, let alone the Romulan Star Empire, into greater hostilities.
Wow such double standard sir. You are also trying to provoke us, which I am not going to bite. You are the only one here refusing diplomacy with your own lip service. There are only so many available fleets left when we have Borg, Undine, and soon Iconians how do you think the galaxy will fare when worlds are destroyed and assimilated? How do you think your forces will fare when they all come raining down on your head with your military killing each other because of irrelevant reasons. If you want this whole galaxy to suffer and deny a future for your grandchildren then go ahead and go about this very path you are on. Look what rage has brought civilizations, look what you are continuing in the name of pride. If you desire peace then stop and give us something to work with. We will adapt and accommodate the best we possibly can. We are only imperfect after all.
You accuse us of a double standard? Admiral Black is this Starfleet Officer indicative of your delegations opinions? If it is then we have much greater issues then can be solved in a single diplomatic conference, not to mention several things that will need to e dealt with before we'll even agree to speak. The confrontational manner is not conducive to a mutually beneficial diplomatic environment. We have not been attempting to provoke anyone, the Federation was already willing to sacrifice it's non-human allies and even it's own citizens into slavery. I was simply seeking to offer them an alternative, the Romulan Star Empire, which upholds it's ideal and refuses to compromise them in the name of expediency. As to lip service, I fail to see how we can even begin to proceed in an effort to engage in diplomatic talks if we are not aware of the issues and concerns facing our respective polities.
What I do find interesting is that rather then address the concerns that the Romulan Star Empire has brought to the table, you've attempted to attack and deflect attention. I can assure Admiral, that the Romulan Star Empire will not be deflected so easily.
You accuse us of a double standard? Admiral Black is this Starfleet Officer indicative of your delegations opinions? If it is then we have much greater issues then can be solved in a single diplomatic conference, not to mention several things that will need to e dealt with before we'll even agree to speak. The confrontational manner is not conducive to a mutually beneficial diplomatic environment. We have not been attempting to provoke anyone, the Federation was already willing to sacrifice it's non-human allies and even it's own citizens into slavery. I was simply seeking to offer them an alternative, the Romulan Star Empire, which upholds it's ideal and refuses to compromise them in the name of expediency. As to lip service, I fail to see how we can even begin to proceed in an effort to engage in diplomatic talks if we are not aware of the issues and concerns facing our respective polities.
What I do find interesting is that rather then address the concerns that the Romulan Star Empire has brought to the table, you've attempted to attack and deflect attention. I can assure Admiral, that the Romulan Star Empire will not be deflected so easily.
No I represent the Federation he is just a young officer who doesn't know his place I am afleet admiral now let talk its much easier than communicating through the forums I have my personal bodyguard who has everything set up we can meet on his ship as soon as possible, where we can talk I will bring official ambassadors of the federation and you can bring romulan Representatives and we will talk bring our concerns to the table. What do you say?
Comments
I agree. Plus we do not know about how far the Undine have penetrated our leadership. A solution to this problem could give us a better image to the Klingon Empire to their main reason for pursuing a war with the federation. Diplomatically, I believe this could give us a better edge towards lasting peace. A truce is useless when the Borg invade us, it will be automatic in the defense of the quadrant. Admiral Black's ideas are exactly what we want to avoid, more violence. I think we need a preemptive hunt for the infiltrators in our government and member worlds, but not of the violent sort one of perhaps Section 31 initiative with some airborne virus and or nanoprobe delivery. I wonder if this will be enough to sway the Klingon diplomats.
I dont want to go to war with the romulan's at all I really want a peace treaty between us and the romulans, I know i threw out idead in this froum but they were jsut that ideas. I am a type of man who puts everything on the table and than sees which ideas are good and which are bad.
Exactly, we are not certain of Section 31 better to be certain instead of an illusive Section's word. Such as how and a certain measure to screen the section itself.
Just put the EVERYONE in a prison cell for a few weeks, and you will certainly see who turns into an undine or not.
And yeah that does work since we already know that they need some kind of medicine to keep their disguise.
My CMO also has a little pet theory about identifying them using Vulcan mind meld.
Doesn't matter though, even considering that all rights being protected by the Federation constitution are under reservation of statutory powers, forcing every Federation citizen to undergo Vulcan mind meld goes a bit to far.
I rather get attacked by someone I believed to be my friend than taking the exact basic rights and principles I've sworn to protect, when I entered Stafleet, from even one person.
I myself am not afraid of being replaced.
Both my wife and daugther would realize the difference, and so would I if one of them were going to be replaced...
In my opinion there are just two ways of how to end this masquerade:
Conquer or being conquered.
Either way, the usefullness of this whole guerillia tactics would go down to an amount where they might even condider stopping it, just saying.
As for section thrity-one, I've been asked by Admiral Quinn to directly respond to this issue:
Starfleet can neither confirm nor deny the existance of an organization called 'Section 31'.
Seems legit to me.
Cease Fire Agreement
The Purpose of this document is to create a cease fire agreement and to establish a joint military body between the United Federation of Planets herein referred to as UFP, The Klingon Empire herein referred to as KDF.
UFP, The UFP will cease any and all hostilities against both the KDF, The UFP also admits that the KDF saw the threat of the Undine before the UFP did and that the UFP was wrong for condemning the KDF invasion of the Gorn Hedgemony. The UFP also will not interfere in the affairs of the KDF and that the KDF may keep any and all territories they have taken and do with those territories as they wish. The UFP also recognizes the establishment of a neutral zone around the Mempa Sector and Eta Eridani and Omega Leonis Sector Blocks. The UFP also recognizes that the Mempa Sector belongs to the KDF. The UFP also will not interfere in the affairs of the KDF.
Furthermore, any territories conquered form the Borg and The Undine as well as any other threats are to be divided evenly between the UFP and the KDF. The UFP will cease any and all hostilities with the KDF, However both the KDF and the UFP and the RE may engage in war-games with each other. The UFP will also contribute to joint KDF and UFP and RE fleets, task-forces and space stations, with the goal of protecting both KDF and UFP and RE territories.
KDF, the KDF may keep any and all territories they have conquered. The KDF agrees to cease any and all hostilities with the UFP and the RE with the exception of war games and war exercises. The KDF will contribute as much as they possibly can to the joint military forces of the KDF and The UFP KDF also has the option of engaging in trade with the UFP but it does not have to.
All sides agree that any territories conquered form the Borg and The Undine as well as any other threats are to be divided evenly between the UFP and the KDF and the and all sides agree not to cross there respective neutral zones with the exception of join military bases that may be built in the neutral zones for security purposes such bases are to be jointly administered by the UFP, KDF and The cease fire and the establishment of the neutral zones and joint military forces takes effect upon the signing of this document by representatives of all sides.
The Romulan Star Empire however, has never abandoned our allies or our fellow citizens. Even now as we have faced the greatest crises in the history of our great Empire we have not fallen and we have not abandoned our ideals or citizens for temporary peace with the Klingons who have proven time and again they can not be trusted. Even now, we are engaged in war with the Klingons who, just like the Gorn, attacked us with no warning and swarmed over our border. Due to the aforementioned crises our defense faltered, but it DID NOT FAIL. We have held the line and we will push these animals out of our space. With the loss of Romulus and Remus the capital systems stranglehold on the political system has disappeared. Member races and colony worlds of the Empire are now equal. WE will NOT abandon you to our enemies, we can be TRUSTED to protect you. Leave the Federation who may sell you tomorrow to make peace with the Borg against the Undine as they once did, or who knows maybe this time they'll side with the Undine. Who can tell with such a fickle group. We however, are rebuilding and we will not forget our friends and allies, nor our enemies. Now is the time, join the Romulan Star Empire and WE will secure peace through strength.
The Federation is not as you describe and I have tried to seek a cease fire with the empire not one Representative of the Romulan empire showed up you seek to conquer and control we seek to fight the real threat without giving up our values, you speak of rebuilding than why not rebuild with a new attitude and explore new ways of thinking and being, why not do that, why cant we all work together to fight the real enemy the Borg and the Undine and the Iconians who are coming.
I find that treaty is repeating the past once again. But if it helps against the coming forces I can support it. It appears that the Romulans did not wish to come but an eye should be kept on them none the less. But Admiral Black abandoning the sector to the Klingon's is exactly what they did before the Dominion War and look how that turned out. I simply say be careful of your choices and be wary of the consequences for everyone that is the weight of being a leader and a high ranking officer of the Federation. I don't think after the Iconians have been dealt with we are going to be in any shape to continue the war. That is what I find troubling about this agreement it only focuses on what is in front of us and not regard for the future repercussions of this. It is a step further in the right direction but I won't agree with leaving citizens out to suffer for the sake of oversight. I think leaving the borders as they were is completely acceptable. We can still give them our Undine infiltrators as we locate them, with an acceptable response from Section 31 not a casual brush off or BS line.
Unfortunately Admiral Black, the Federation you represent is most assuredly as I describe. The fact that it's uncomfortable for you to hear the truth makes it no less accurate. The Romulan Empire has never expanded through force or conquest, unlike the Federation and your current absorption of our one time mutual enemies the Cardassian Union. Nor do we seek to control our galactic neighbors, again unlike the Federation. I find it unfathomable that you fail to see that in this instance the Federation is clearly in the wrong and in violation of it's ideals, but again such hypocrisy isn't unexpected as we are well used to it in our dealings with you.
Perhaps you missed my comments about the stranglehold that Romulus held on our internal politics no longer being present? I would hate to think you're simply responding to my call to arms to the non-Human members of the Federation with rote statements. We are rebuilding with a new attitude and I can assure you we are most definitely exploring new options of action.
The Romulan Star Empire gladly works with our galactic neighbors when such cooperation is necessary for the well being of us all. However, in this instance working with the Federation to help them make peace with the Klingons by offering up other species and your own citizens to slavery in the Klingon Empire is in opposition to our ideals. No. We will not help you sell other races into slavery simply to help you clean up another of your messes. You started the war with the Borg, you started the war with the Dominion, and you have started this war with the Undine. We are currently helping you clean up the galactic mess you started with the Borg and we assisted with the Dominion. One would think you'd have learned your lesson by now. The Romulan Star Empire is unfortunately not in a position at this time to help you clean up your mess once again. If you wish to sell those species you assured of protection and your own citizens into slavery how can we trust you to keep your word in any future treaty or alliance we might make? No, far better to crush the Klingons and liberate their enslaved worlds and deal with the Undine and Borg on our won then get stabbed in the back by the Federation.
Peace talks ^^^^^
Humans = Feds
Alien = Klingons
What changes do you speak of? The Romulans are still engaging Federation Ships, I challenge you to stop the Federation hating and work with us. To sign a cease fire agreement with the federation I am trying to change things become partners with us forget the past let us look to the future together all three of us or at least Romulan and Federation can work together, I am challenging all Romulans to come to the peace table and sign a cease fire agreement, So the choice is yours back down and dont sign and things stay the same or man up and sign and work with us? I leave the choice to the Romulans after all we must all start somewhere.
Here I have to agree with the Admiral. I have been engaged by many romulan patrols with no provocation, not to mention the Romulan Civil War and Reman struggle for freedom. These conflicts are dragging the Federation into it. Honestly, I smell tripods at work and it has been shown that the Iconians are also manipulating this conflict as well. I think that with the old Romulan government in constant state of flux they will continue to destroy themselves. But I have to say Admiral being confrontational is an uneasy and often fatal mistake in diplomacy.
we can sit here all day and point fingers, it wont do anyone any good, we have provided aid to the Romulans, why dont we work towards the future why cant we be allied? why cant we both make gestures of good faith, Stop living in and discussing the past you say you work with your galactic neighbors, then start working with us and together we can stop the Borg and the Undine.
Whoa hold on one sec why dont we meet for diplomatic talks in I will bring Federation Representatives including those more experienced in diplomacy and you can bring Romulan Representatives I already have a secure federation ship we can meet on if that is alright with you this way we cannot be disturbed by trollers.
Wow such double standard sir. You are also trying to provoke us, which I am not going to bite. You are the only one here refusing diplomacy with your own lip service. There are only so many available fleets left when we have Borg, Undine, and soon Iconians how do you think the galaxy will fare when worlds are destroyed and assimilated? How do you think your forces will fare when they all come raining down on your head with your military killing each other because of irrelevant reasons. If you want this whole galaxy to suffer and deny a future for your grandchildren then go ahead and go about this very path you are on. Look what rage has brought civilizations, look what you are continuing in the name of pride. If you desire peace then stop and give us something to work with. We will adapt and accommodate the best we possibly can. We are only imperfect after all.
What I do find interesting is that rather then address the concerns that the Romulan Star Empire has brought to the table, you've attempted to attack and deflect attention. I can assure Admiral, that the Romulan Star Empire will not be deflected so easily.
No I represent the Federation he is just a young officer who doesn't know his place I am afleet admiral now let talk its much easier than communicating through the forums I have my personal bodyguard who has everything set up we can meet on his ship as soon as possible, where we can talk I will bring official ambassadors of the federation and you can bring romulan Representatives and we will talk bring our concerns to the table. What do you say?