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Last Flight of the Shuttle Endeavour

SystemSystem Member, NoReporting Posts: 178,019 Arc User
edited May 2011 in Ten Forward
As well as there being a Royal Wedding, today marks the last time the Space Shuttle Endeavour will launch into space. This isn't planned to be the last shuttle flight into space (NASA is hoping to launch the Atlantis in June), but along with the retirement of the Discovery, it marks the beginning of the end of the 30+ year old Shuttle Program. I was wondering what thoughts everyone had on the retirement of the youngest shuttle in the fleet.
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  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2011
    Watching the preparations on NASA TV
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2011
    Its another Mile Stone on the Odyssey of Improving Space Capabilities..

    the Shuttles size made it capable of things for its time . The Vehicle was robust but not as flexible due to its limited power for re entry flight. It was a good bench mark for testing new concepts.
    Discovery came with risk and great people were lost trying to do great things.

    The Soviet Space program had horrible disasters that were not as open or widely reported til the break up of occupied lands police state allowed information to flow.

    The Program leads the World in numbers of people put into orbit for a reason... Sharing Technology that powerful to just any state comes with a risk that it could be turned to over means. The Euro Space combine
    Is not free enterprise for AIrbus.. So its hard to see a communal approach to shared space at this time.

    To the degree we are earth borne need to take the next step for the Moon to stage for Mars. With out it opens the Doro to colonial rivalries that happen in other Continents on this planet.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2011
    SenshiBat wrote: »
    Discovery came with risk and great people were lost trying to do great things.

    "Risk is part of the game if you sit in that chair, son." - James T. Kirk. ;)

    More than likely paraphrasing...
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2011
    I don't think colonial rivalries are something to worry about. First, no nation is allowed to claim territory on another celestial body. Also the general consensus is that in terms of space programs today is the age of cooperation.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2011
    Lilist wrote:
    I don't think colonial rivalries are something to worry about. First, no nation is allowed to claim territory on another celestial body. Also the general consensus is that in terms of space programs today is the age of cooperation.

    Yes but that doesn't stop individuals from buying property out there...There's a company called The Lunar Embassy that is selling property, including entire moons....and apparently it's legit.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2011
    Yes but that doesn't stop individuals from buying property out there...There's a company called The Lunar Embassy that is selling property, including entire moons....and apparently it's legit.

    No it's not. No one on earth has the right to buy, sell or own land on another celestial body. Those companies that claim they're selling 20km squard of martian land are just ripping off people who believe it's legitimate

    It's like the companies that say you can name a star. All the stars you'd be able to name would have been charted already and given names which the scientific community would use and wouldn't change because someone bought a naming thing off some silly company
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2011
    There's a company called The Lunar Embassy that is selling property, including entire moons....and apparently it's legit.

    No, there's a UN treaty that prohibits any claims on territory off-planet, by anybody. (Not to mention the whole 'Possession is 9/10ths of the law' thing.)
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2011
    Naevius wrote:
    No, there's a UN treaty that prohibits any claims on territory off-planet, by anybody. (Not to mention the whole 'Possession is 9/10ths of the law' thing.)

    So, no squatters, huh?
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2011
    Lilist wrote:
    No it's not. No one on earth has the right to buy, sell or own land on another celestial body. Those companies that claim they're selling 20km squard of martian land are just ripping off people who believe it's legitimate

    It's like the companies that say you can name a star. All the stars you'd be able to name would have been charted already and given names which the scientific community would use and wouldn't change because someone bought a naming thing off some silly company

    Actually...It's a legal loophole is what it is.

    The Outer Space Treaty of 1967 and the Moon Treaty of 1884 specifically state that GOVERNMENTS cannot take control of any extra terrestrial property. Legal analysts have combed this, and decided that since it explicitly does NOT mention individuals or corporations....It's ok. The UN has spent a lot of time and effort trying to change the wording of the treaties to include this...but all attempts have failed....no one can agree. hehe

    So therefore...Via technicality...Lunar Assembly appears to be legit...for now.

    Granted if it's ever decided....the people that paid money out to these organizations...will likely have to be refunded 100%.

    Just checked the wording of the Moon Treaty...

    Loophole: Bans any ownership of any extraterrestrial property by any organization or person, unless that organization is international and governmental.

    Anyone can get around that....Which is, I believe, how the Lunar Embassy gets around it, by calling itself an Embassy.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2011
    Lilist wrote:
    No it's not. No one on earth has the right to buy, sell or own land on another celestial body. Those companies that claim they're selling 20km squard of martian land are just ripping off people who believe it's legitimate

    It's like the companies that say you can name a star. All the stars you'd be able to name would have been charted already and given names which the scientific community would use and wouldn't change because someone bought a naming thing off some silly company

    It's not so much that they'd already be charted (the deep sky charts along the milky way belt are very sparse), but that there is only one organization with the authority to name stars, and they don't sell it.

    Companies like this usually state their "deeds" are for entertainment value only, otherwise they can face some fraud claims. An asteroid seller in the US actually went bankrupt some years back for that - NASA landed some hardware on a moon they "sold" and were sued by the "owner." The court told the man that his deed was invalid and he was charged with fraud on the court. He then claimed an old maritime law allowing civilians to claim unclaimed islands territorially for their country or privately for themselves, and was then told to demonstrate effective occupation or his claim could not be recognized. Anyway, huge judgment against him obviously, but he did manage to recover most of it from the seller because it's fraud to sell property you don't own.

    There's a loophole in the treaty, as the above poster points out, but it's been tested in court: Until somebody demonstrates effective occupation of their property, their claims will be rejected - if they're lucky, most of the people who've tried to enforce their claims (there's at least two people I know of currently suing NASA and the ESA) have ended up getting themselves charged with fraud.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2011
    Archanubis wrote:
    As well as there being a Royal Wedding, today marks the last time the Space Shuttle Endeavour will launch into space. This isn't planned to be the last shuttle flight into space (NASA is hoping to launch the Atlantis in June), but along with the retirement of the Discovery, it marks the beginning of the end of the 30+ year old Shuttle Program. I was wondering what thoughts everyone had on the retirement of the youngest shuttle in the fleet.

    Not a bad run for a shuttle built from Spare Parts - Luckily I'll be home in time to see the launch.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2011
    Derailing aside....

    I remember the first launch....It was amazing. I just hope the next program doesn't take too long to get off the ground (Pun intended)
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2011
    Derailing aside....

    I remember the first launch....It was amazing. I just hope the next program doesn't take too long to get off the ground (Pun intended)

    The current rocket waving contest between China and the other major space powers could be the best (or worst) thing for this. Right now it looks like everyone involved is saying, "I'm going to shortfund manned spaceflight for ten years to make a 95 ton heavy lifter." "Oh yeah? Well I'M going to shortfund manned spaceflight for ten years to make a 100 ton heavy lifter!" back and forth, last I heard the US plan was up to a 125 ton heavy lifter and China was talking about 130. Which really doesn't look like it's going to get anyone anywhere.

    As soon as somebody involved stops saying "My rocket's going to be bigger" and starts actually building the rockets, things might happen very quickly.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2011
    hevach wrote: »
    The current rocket waving contest between China and the other major space powers could be the best (or worst) thing for this. Right now it looks like everyone involved is saying, "I'm going to shortfund manned spaceflight for ten years to make a 95 ton heavy lifter." "Oh yeah? Well I'M going to shortfund manned spaceflight for ten years to make a 100 ton heavy lifter!" back and forth, last I heard the US plan was up to a 125 ton heavy lifter and China was talking about 130. Which really doesn't look like it's going to get anyone anywhere.

    As soon as somebody involved stops saying "My rocket's going to be bigger" and starts actually building the rockets, things might happen very quickly.

    Don't forget the commercial interests in space flight and exploration. Sure, they can't claim any property (yet, may change when folks start landing permanently on the moon, Mars, asteroids, etc. ;) ), but that doesn't prevent some intrepid entrepeneurs, especially those actively working in the field, from selling tickets for the flights. ;)
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2011
    Launch is off for at east 48hrs. APU One failed.

    Edit: Mwahaha...I ninja! :p

    Shame about the failure though :(

    Must have been annoying for everyone, not to mention the astronauts
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2011
    Mission has been scrubbed. 2 failed heaters in APU 1.

    Decision made as of 12:20pm Eastern. At least a 48 hour scrub.

    Watching NASA TV...Just announced it.

    Darn Ninjas....



    Anyway...They have no clue WHY APU1 heaters failed...but they need to drain the EFT and get it figured out. I don't blame them for being overly cautious. A catastrophic failure at this stage of the STS program would be fatal to NASA I think....
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2011
    Ah well; at least they won't have the Royal Wedding overshadowing them (at least, not as much).
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2011
    Lilist wrote:
    I don't think colonial rivalries are something to worry about. First, no nation is allowed to claim territory on another celestial body. Also the general consensus is that in terms of space programs today is the age of cooperation.

    Does this mean I shouldn't go to Mars and start the reactor?
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2011
    Endeavour is up! Good luck to all of them!
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2011
    Just watched it myself online. Saw Discovery's last one in person. Doesn't have the same effect.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2011
    I've seen 4 shuttle launches live, 2 on the side of the road, 1 on the Air Base, and one while in a Cessna flying south. Even saw John Glenn go up, that was cool. Thought it would be louder :D
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