I just wanted to post this to the Devs just so they know. A recent patch which required a computer to have updated drivers, has made it so I can't play STO. My computer, a 2008 sony Vaio, for some reason cannot handle updating drivers. It crashes the computer and nearly wiped out all my writing and photos that were on it before when I tried to update them.
I just wanted the Devs to know, that because of that issue, I will most likely not be able to play STO until late July when I can actually afford my computer to be updated to Windows XP (I currently have vista:( horrible system by the way). I'm really frustrated by that, but what are you going to?
I started a thread and was helped by some very helpful forum users (especially Commander-bob, thanks for trying:) ) but it did'nt work.
Just wanted the Devs to know that and was curious to see if any other people are having a similar issue?
My laptop has Vista, and I have experienced very few issues, almost all of which could be traced back to operator headspace and timing, AKA operator error. To save you some time and heartache, here's a suggestion to get you up and running quickly:
A recent patch which required a computer to have updated drivers, has made it so I can't play STO. My computer, a 2008 sony Vaio, for some reason cannot handle updating drivers.
Just wanted the Devs to know that and was curious to see if any other people are having a similar issue?
if the system cant handle a driver update, its not the game, that is the problem, its the computer.
I'm sure that you've done the basics by now ie AV Malware etc etc so that wouldnt' help, have you had a tech from a decent local place look at it (not a big box place)? see if they can dig it out, (assuming of course you can afford it. and why not just wipe and get win 7
u mean downgraded to xp XD (though i agree that its actually an upgrade =P).
Can't say I've ever had this issue with a computer
Actually win 7 would be the upgrade, to both imo. I started with vista shortly after SP1 came out and while it had its problems it worked at least... when getting my current pc I went with 7, happy to say its a marked improvement over vista... though it still has similar irritations with networking and sharing drives I've noticed. still better than xp imo.
Actually win 7 would be the upgrade, to both imo. I started with vista shortly after SP1 came out and while it had its problems it worked at least... when getting my current pc I went with 7, happy to say its a marked improvement over vista... though it still has similar irritations with networking and sharing drives I've noticed. still better than xp imo.
i mean xp is better than vista so going from vista to xp would kinda be an upgrade =P. I hated vista soooo much. I had a system with 2GB of RAM, and I couldn't play any games cause my memory would max out (no viruses, etc and no programs running in the background). Was very annoying
I'd also suggest going from Vista to Win7, not XP. Win7 is really superior to XP (and especially Vista), and a 2008 computer should handle it fine. (My 2007 Netbook handled going to Win7 flawlessly).
As someone who has seen the code base for NT5.1, NT6.0, and NT6.1, I can tell you that going down the track is inherently worse, though it's in different ways. NT5.1, the code base for XP, is garbage at driver management and networking security. Actually, it's just garbage at security to begin with. NT5.1 is also horrible at overall internet implementation. The 6.0 kernel introduced a lot of security features (trufax, Vista is more secure than OSX, it gets hit more because of sample size) but the file management wasn't optimal and some of the security features bottlenecked networking.
It should also be noted that throughout development, the 6.0 kernel OS derivatives were more stable than the 5.1 kernel was at similar lengths of development time. There was just a larger sample and the previous OS was XP, not ME.
But that's all beside the point. Vista is not responsible for drivers being bad. That would be Sony. And downgrading the OS will not make driver issues go away, it will only exacerbate them. Chances are, if your GPU is having driver issues like you describe, the GPU is checking out.
I have one question...How does a driver update nearly wipe out your personal files and photos? I have had some bad driver updates in the past, but no of them actually put my personal files and photos in danger of being lost.
Driver updates don't have anything to do with your personal files and photos.
From a total XP fanboi; Get Windows 7. While it is not perfect, as it sits it is full of win. I made the switch from XP shortly after Win7 came out based on recommendations from many beta testers. I have never regretted the decision. Getting used to the new OS is more culture shock than a learning curve. I was treating it like XP within hours of finishing the install. Easiest install to date as well, worst part is the waiting for all of the OS and driver updates. It does most everything automatically.
Strangely enough I disagree that Windows XP is an upgrade. For me Vista runs better then XP ever did. Actually one of my computers windows XP did not work at all on but Vista worked amazingly on. If you have less then 2GB of ram and you are running a 32bit build of XP then XP might be faster. If you have 4GB+ ram and 64bit build then Vista is definitely faster and more reliable then XP was. XP64 was actually so bad that microsoft gave people free upgrdes to Vista 64. So if you want to use 64bit hardware effectively you need to use Vista or Windows 7.
When Vista first come out the biggest problems it had was being loaded on systems below the minimum system requirements. (You can actually look that up, intel basically paid microsoft to get below standard systems approved) and systems with not enough ram. However XP runs very poorly on systems with a lot of ram. I know it is popular to hate vista but it does work pretty well for a microsoft os.
I have one question...How does a driver update nearly wipe out your personal files and photos? I have had some bad driver updates in the past, but no of them actually put my personal files and photos in danger of being lost.
Driver updates don't have anything to do with your personal files and photos.
It doesn't, but Vista does have some known issues that can cause driver updates to trash the registry and if you don't know the registry hack to fix it (it's fairly easy if you know your way around regedit, most cases are just a permissions issue that prevents drivers or related services from working, but it's also very poorly documented and the knowledgebase articles on it only relate to networking - it can happen with any driver or service) the next solution is a reinstall.
If you depend on a typical service shop or worse yet Geek Squad, they'll usually go to the second option first. It's a lot easier, and they can bill you for the 2-4 hours the install runs mostly unattended, rather than the half hour of actual work needed to fix the issue.
It doesn't, but Vista does have some known issues that can cause driver updates to trash the registry and if you don't know the registry hack to fix it (it's fairly easy if you know your way around regedit, most cases are just a permissions issue that prevents drivers or related services from working, but it's also very poorly documented and the knowledgebase articles on it only relate to networking - it can happen with any driver or service) the next solution is a reinstall.
If you depend on a typical service shop or worse yet Geek Squad, they'll usually go to the second option first. It's a lot easier, and they can bill you for the 2-4 hours the install runs mostly unattended, rather than the half hour of actual work needed to fix the issue.
Registry issues also wouldn't corrupt Documents. Even at the worst case and you lose read access to your Document folders [which isn't a default security setting], you could still access them with the Administrator login, or any other account that happens to have Administrator access.
Even with a reinstall, you shouldn't lose your documents, unless you decide you really must reformat, but that's really not necessary either.
Permission issues with drivers and related services really sounds like it's attempting to use an XP-era driver installer instead of a Vista-era, or it's a poorly written driver that insists on Ring0 access, which Vista, kinda rightfully makes difficult to install.
Registry issues also wouldn't corrupt Documents. Even at the worst case and you lose read access to your Document folders [which isn't a default security setting], you could still access them with the Administrator login, or any other account that happens to have Administrator access.
Even with a reinstall, you shouldn't lose your documents, unless you decide you really must reformat, but that's really not necessary either.
Permission issues with drivers and related services really sounds like it's attempting to use an XP-era driver installer instead of a Vista-era, or it's a poorly written driver that insists on Ring0 access, which Vista, kinda rightfully makes difficult to install.
This, more or less. And please, let's leave ad hominems against other companies out of the discussion. You never know when someone who works for them might be around. Wink wink, nudge nudge.
Registry issues also wouldn't corrupt Documents. Even at the worst case and you lose read access to your Document folders [which isn't a default security setting], you could still access them with the Administrator login, or any other account that happens to have Administrator access.
Even with a reinstall, you shouldn't lose your documents, unless you decide you really must reformat, but that's really not necessary either.
Permission issues with drivers and related services really sounds like it's attempting to use an XP-era driver installer instead of a Vista-era, or it's a poorly written driver that insists on Ring0 access, which Vista, kinda rightfully makes difficult to install.
Registry issues won't, but most manufacturer's restores will - nondestructive restore seems to be out of favor the last five years for some reason, at least four major manufacturers don't even include it in their recovery material. Toshiba Satellites (OP mentions Toshiba) supposedly started including it again, I haven't seen a model later than 2009, but for some time did not unless you contacted support and bought recovery disks, the recovery partition was destructive only.
Also, it's not an XP driver issue. It's a known issue with Vista itself (it's most common occurrence, see link, is with native services, not even third party components). Here's some more useful info on it, the KB articles are entirely useless - even without the article linking the wrong one. It's also quite common with onboard sound drivers (the fix is the same, but it's not SERVICE that needs the permissions), and it also can knock out services like the plug and play host, leaving the existing setup functional but unchangeable, and can even break the installer service causing any .msi based installer to give misleading administrator permission errors.
Correct me if I am wrong here but doesn't the Sony Viao require that you use Sony specific drivers? Similar to what HP use to (maybe still does?) require).
Correct me if I am wrong here but doesn't the Sony Viao require that you use Sony specific drivers? Similar to what HP use to (maybe still does?) require).
^^^
Unfortunately this - if there isn't an updated driver on the Sony VIAO support site; you can try Google and see if anyone has done a 'TRIBBLE ' version of a newer driver that will work <--- BUT, if you go this route, be sure to scan and look around to make sure there's nothing malicious; and as always use anything you find at your own risk.
I just wanted to post this to the Devs just so they know. A recent patch which required a computer to have updated drivers, has made it so I can't play STO. My computer, a 2008 sony Vaio, for some reason cannot handle updating drivers. It crashes the computer
Greetings,
If the drivers are somehow causing the game, OS, or other applications to crash, you can roll back the driver update in Device Manager. Simply go into System in Control Panel (or press Windows key + Pause/Break key), go into Device Manager, locate the device with the suspected bad driver, go into the properties for it and there should be a "Rollback driver" button on the "Driver" tab.
... A recent patch which required a computer to have updated drivers, has made it so I can't play STO. My computer, a 2008 sony Vaio...
Just wanted the Devs to know that and was curious to see if any other people are having a similar issue?
I am in the same boat. My STO launcher crashed on 4/17 during its attempt at an automatic update on my Sony Vaio laptop (mine's a 2009). After trying lots of things with Support and with other helpful users these past seven days it looks like my laptop's graphics chipset is just plain below specs. I won't have to wait until July, but I'll certainly be out of commission for a couple of weeks at least while I decide what desktop to get. Sorry to hear that you're in the same jam. I am way behind the times regarding the latest in computers and tech talk. If you're in the same boat as I am in that regard I found it very helpful to talk to an employee at a national-chain, non-sales commission electronics store.
The guy I spoke with tonight already steered me clear from making a VERY costly mistake - I almost bought one of those very nifty all-in-one computers where the monitor is a touchscreen and the CPU is mounted right behind the screen. He told me that while those types of computers are nice, they cannot have their graphics cards updated like a traditional desktop can. While it would have met the game's medium requirements right out of the box, there was no way to upgrade it so I can finally play the game on it's maximum settings. Heck, if I'm getting a new computer it will be able to play this game on highest graphics setting! He then picked up a copy of STO from the store's shelves and ran through the specs with me as we walked down the row of desktops computers. I didn't buy anything tonight (too many choices to make a snap decision like that), but I learned more about the latest in computers to know that my laptop has simply been borderline adequate to the tasks I've given it so far. Since I was dealing with someone who was not working for a sales commission I got some very honest and helpful information. I made sure his dept. manager knew how helpful he was and that when I do get my new computer I will be buying from that store and that employee based on their pressure-free help (he may not be commission, but there is probably some sort of tracking that shows who's selling stuff and who's not).
Hope that helps. I've kept the info vague because I don't know it it is ok to mention stores by name in the forums, and I am no expert in computers, so I don't want to distort or misquote what he told me. All I know is that now I know just how much I didn't know until I talked with him
Comments
Can't say I've ever had this issue with a computer
Works for me every time I need to update drivers.
if the system cant handle a driver update, its not the game, that is the problem, its the computer.
I'm sure that you've done the basics by now ie AV Malware etc etc so that wouldnt' help, have you had a tech from a decent local place look at it (not a big box place)? see if they can dig it out, (assuming of course you can afford it. and why not just wipe and get win 7
Actually win 7 would be the upgrade, to both imo. I started with vista shortly after SP1 came out and while it had its problems it worked at least... when getting my current pc I went with 7, happy to say its a marked improvement over vista... though it still has similar irritations with networking and sharing drives I've noticed. still better than xp imo.
i mean xp is better than vista so going from vista to xp would kinda be an upgrade =P. I hated vista soooo much. I had a system with 2GB of RAM, and I couldn't play any games cause my memory would max out (no viruses, etc and no programs running in the background). Was very annoying
It should also be noted that throughout development, the 6.0 kernel OS derivatives were more stable than the 5.1 kernel was at similar lengths of development time. There was just a larger sample and the previous OS was XP, not ME.
But that's all beside the point. Vista is not responsible for drivers being bad. That would be Sony. And downgrading the OS will not make driver issues go away, it will only exacerbate them. Chances are, if your GPU is having driver issues like you describe, the GPU is checking out.
Driver updates don't have anything to do with your personal files and photos.
When Vista first come out the biggest problems it had was being loaded on systems below the minimum system requirements. (You can actually look that up, intel basically paid microsoft to get below standard systems approved) and systems with not enough ram. However XP runs very poorly on systems with a lot of ram. I know it is popular to hate vista but it does work pretty well for a microsoft os.
It doesn't, but Vista does have some known issues that can cause driver updates to trash the registry and if you don't know the registry hack to fix it (it's fairly easy if you know your way around regedit, most cases are just a permissions issue that prevents drivers or related services from working, but it's also very poorly documented and the knowledgebase articles on it only relate to networking - it can happen with any driver or service) the next solution is a reinstall.
If you depend on a typical service shop or worse yet Geek Squad, they'll usually go to the second option first. It's a lot easier, and they can bill you for the 2-4 hours the install runs mostly unattended, rather than the half hour of actual work needed to fix the issue.
Registry issues also wouldn't corrupt Documents. Even at the worst case and you lose read access to your Document folders [which isn't a default security setting], you could still access them with the Administrator login, or any other account that happens to have Administrator access.
Even with a reinstall, you shouldn't lose your documents, unless you decide you really must reformat, but that's really not necessary either.
Permission issues with drivers and related services really sounds like it's attempting to use an XP-era driver installer instead of a Vista-era, or it's a poorly written driver that insists on Ring0 access, which Vista, kinda rightfully makes difficult to install.
This, more or less. And please, let's leave ad hominems against other companies out of the discussion. You never know when someone who works for them might be around. Wink wink, nudge nudge.
Registry issues won't, but most manufacturer's restores will - nondestructive restore seems to be out of favor the last five years for some reason, at least four major manufacturers don't even include it in their recovery material. Toshiba Satellites (OP mentions Toshiba) supposedly started including it again, I haven't seen a model later than 2009, but for some time did not unless you contacted support and bought recovery disks, the recovery partition was destructive only.
Also, it's not an XP driver issue. It's a known issue with Vista itself (it's most common occurrence, see link, is with native services, not even third party components). Here's some more useful info on it, the KB articles are entirely useless - even without the article linking the wrong one. It's also quite common with onboard sound drivers (the fix is the same, but it's not SERVICE that needs the permissions), and it also can knock out services like the plug and play host, leaving the existing setup functional but unchangeable, and can even break the installer service causing any .msi based installer to give misleading administrator permission errors.
Unfortunately this - if there isn't an updated driver on the Sony VIAO support site; you can try Google and see if anyone has done a 'TRIBBLE ' version of a newer driver that will work <--- BUT, if you go this route, be sure to scan and look around to make sure there's nothing malicious; and as always use anything you find at your own risk.
And if you need it, here's the Sony Driver site (link)
Greetings,
If the drivers are somehow causing the game, OS, or other applications to crash, you can roll back the driver update in Device Manager. Simply go into System in Control Panel (or press Windows key + Pause/Break key), go into Device Manager, locate the device with the suspected bad driver, go into the properties for it and there should be a "Rollback driver" button on the "Driver" tab.
Official instructions from Microsoft are here: http://support.microsoft.com/kb/283657 You could also use System Restore to undo the update if desired.
I am in the same boat. My STO launcher crashed on 4/17 during its attempt at an automatic update on my Sony Vaio laptop (mine's a 2009). After trying lots of things with Support and with other helpful users these past seven days it looks like my laptop's graphics chipset is just plain below specs. I won't have to wait until July, but I'll certainly be out of commission for a couple of weeks at least while I decide what desktop to get. Sorry to hear that you're in the same jam. I am way behind the times regarding the latest in computers and tech talk. If you're in the same boat as I am in that regard I found it very helpful to talk to an employee at a national-chain, non-sales commission electronics store.
The guy I spoke with tonight already steered me clear from making a VERY costly mistake - I almost bought one of those very nifty all-in-one computers where the monitor is a touchscreen and the CPU is mounted right behind the screen. He told me that while those types of computers are nice, they cannot have their graphics cards updated like a traditional desktop can. While it would have met the game's medium requirements right out of the box, there was no way to upgrade it so I can finally play the game on it's maximum settings. Heck, if I'm getting a new computer it will be able to play this game on highest graphics setting! He then picked up a copy of STO from the store's shelves and ran through the specs with me as we walked down the row of desktops computers. I didn't buy anything tonight (too many choices to make a snap decision like that), but I learned more about the latest in computers to know that my laptop has simply been borderline adequate to the tasks I've given it so far. Since I was dealing with someone who was not working for a sales commission I got some very honest and helpful information. I made sure his dept. manager knew how helpful he was and that when I do get my new computer I will be buying from that store and that employee based on their pressure-free help (he may not be commission, but there is probably some sort of tracking that shows who's selling stuff and who's not).
Hope that helps. I've kept the info vague because I don't know it it is ok to mention stores by name in the forums, and I am no expert in computers, so I don't want to distort or misquote what he told me. All I know is that now I know just how much I didn't know until I talked with him