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Gorn/Lethean females?

SystemSystem Member, NoReporting Posts: 178,019 Arc User
edited February 2013 in Klingon Discussion
The title says it all.... when?
Post edited by Unknown User on
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  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2011
    red_shirt_ wrote: »
    The title says it all.... when?

    That's a good question. But honestly...how would female Gorn look? They're reptiles, so no mammary glads. They don't have hair. Would they be bigger? Smaller? More colorful or more pale? I like to pretend that female Gorn are rare and operate more like Queen Ants (I know they're not insects) where they lay tons of little Gorny eggs.

    Perhaps female Gorn could have colorful feathers on top of their head and vibrant skin colors? And a smaller less muscular body?

    As for the Letheans...I have no clue, maybe they don't have separate sexes. If they did how would they look?
    I have a hard time picturing This in an Orion bikini with pigtails.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2011
    to be honest, I dont want one. Gorn and Leathen Females dont seem....right to me
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2011
    In case of the Gorn, I'd prefer if they went another route:

    According to the kind soft canon that the STO novel follows, there are different subtypes of Gorn.
    They have a caste system that goes well beyond social differences, Gorn from different castes are
    actually physically different.
    Why not get rid of the designation "Gorn Male" (we know they can do that with the Andorians) and make those Gorn of one of the castes and use the "Female" slot for another caste.
    Leave sexual demorphism out of it and just give us two different castes even of they'll be identical statwise it would add some variety that goes beyond the regular character editor.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2011
    mister_dee wrote:
    In case of the Gorn, I'd prefer if they went another route:

    According to the kind soft canon that the STO novel follows, there are different subtypes of Gorn.
    They have a caste system that goes well beyond social differences, Gorn from different castes are
    actually physically different.
    Why not get rid of the designation "Gorn Male" (we know they can do that with the Andorians) and make those Gorn of one of the castes and use the "Female" slot for another caste.
    Leave sexual demorphism out of it and just give us two different castes even of they'll be identical statwise it would add some variety that goes beyond the regular character editor.

    That's a great idea! Kind of like how they're doing a TOS and Modern Gorn. They could add the Gorn from Enterprise as well. That's 3 completely different types of Gorn bodies.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2011
    How do you know that the Gorn we have in game, AREN'T the females?

    *- saucy 60's gold lam
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2011
    PodSix wrote:
    How do you know that the Gorn we have in game, AREN'T the females?

    *- saucy 60's gold lam
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2011
    mister_dee wrote:
    Why not get rid of the designation "Gorn Male" (we know they can do that with the Andorians) and make those Gorn of one of the castes and use the "Female" slot for another caste.

    This could in theory be used to stop the whole 'let us keep the old gorn' argument a few players have as well, assuming of course Cyrptic can pull it off.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2011
    That's a good question. But honestly...how would female Gorn look? They're reptiles, so no mammary glads. They don't have hair. Would they be bigger? Smaller? More colorful or more pale? I like to pretend that female Gorn are rare and operate more like Queen Ants (I know they're not insects) where they lay tons of little Gorny eggs.

    Perhaps female Gorn could have colorful feathers on top of their head and vibrant skin colors? And a smaller less muscular body?

    As for the Letheans...I have no clue, maybe they don't have separate sexes. If they did how would they look?
    I have a hard time picturing This in an Orion bikini with pigtails.

    According to Memory Beta:

    "Though this is impressive among the males, the female Gorns are even more fearsome as they can average around 2.5 meters high and typically are 250 kilograms. As such, the females tend to be the stronger gender among the Gorn race. Due to this, it is not uncommon to see a large number of female marines and officers within the Gorn military."
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2011
    PodSix wrote:
    How do you know that the Gorn we have in game, AREN'T the females?

    *- saucy 60's gold lam
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2011
    Gorn are my favorite aliens by far. Something about a big ol lizard guy when I was 6 or 7 just did it for me. I believe Arena was the 2nd ST episode I saw. I remember "Bread and Circuses", though I could easily have transposed the order in which I saw them in the 25 years or so since.

    I love when Kirk and Shatner are wrestling in "Arena".

    On one of the close-ups, you can see Shatner get a wierd smile/ smirk on his face.

    The stunt-man told Star Trek.com that he was saying "Kiss me! KIss me!" to Shatner at that point. I love the little back stories from TOS!
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2011
    I'd be mortified if they gave female gorn TRIBBLE (see the dragonborn debates on the Wizards of the Coast forums if you want to go there!

    Males and females do not need to look different when designing alien species, and when they do look different those differences don't have to follow the human design of smaller, weaker, and bustier. Some only have one gender, arcturians reproduce by cloning (so one assumes that they do not have males or females), rhaandarites are androgynous and other species can only tell the genders apart by the jewellery they wear, andorians have four genders etc.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2011
    Pauln6 wrote:
    I'd be mortified if they gave female gorn TRIBBLE (see the dragonborn debates on the Wizards of the Coast forums if you want to go there!

    Males and females do not need to look different when designing alien species, and when they do look different those differences don't have to follow the human design of smaller, weaker, and bustier. Some only have one gender, arcturians reproduce by cloning (so one assumes that they do not have males or females), rhaandarites are androgynous and other species can only tell the genders apart by the jewellery they wear, andorians have four genders etc.

    Not everyone keeps their genitals in the same place.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2011
    MGoblin256 wrote: »
    According to Memory Beta:

    "Though this is impressive among the males, the female Gorns are even more fearsome as they can average around 2.5 meters high and typically are 250 kilograms. As such, the females tend to be the stronger gender among the Gorn race. Due to this, it is not uncommon to see a large number of female marines and officers within the Gorn military."

    Oh wow I forgot all about that! I still kind of like the idea of some kind of feathers on the new model Gorn to distinguish the sexes. Feather mohawks! hehe
    Not everyone keeps their genitals in the same place.

    Knee TRIBBLE ftw!
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2011
    Oh wow I forgot all about that! I still kind of like the idea of some kind of feathers on the new model Gorn to distinguish the sexes. Feather mohawks! hehe



    Knee TRIBBLE ftw!


    Heh...yet another reason that VI is my favorite ST movie!

    I actually really like the plumage idea for female Gorn. It would be quite nice, have Gorn fems ever been seen in soft canon (most likely in the old Marvel or DC comics I'm thinking if so).
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2011
    MGoblin256 wrote: »
    According to Memory Beta:

    "Though this is impressive among the males, the female Gorns are even more fearsome as they can average around 2.5 meters high and typically are 250 kilograms. As such, the females tend to be the stronger gender among the Gorn race. Due to this, it is not uncommon to see a large number of female marines and officers within the Gorn military."

    Yay sexual dimorphism reversed.

    250 kilogram at 2.5 meters still means that gorn females are rather likely to be lightning bruiser, femme fatals of the not so literary kind.



    Perhaps in the episode Arena it wasn't about fighting for the gorn captain.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2011
    are the gorn not asexual egg layers?

    as far as the lethians its been stated for years that the males are the attractive ones, in that case im not sure we are ready to see the kind of ugly their women possess :eek:
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2011
    KhansWrath wrote:
    are the gorn not asexual egg layers?

    Must the Gorn be the one to be the other?

    Besides if there are soft-canon sources like the stuff from Pocket Books out there that state they have two genders, then it's pretty likely Cryptic would have to use that material at least to a point.
    Since the STO timeline and the Pocket Books timeline diverged at some point it would be mostly historic stuff that's different but biology would have to be pretty much the same.
    KhansWrath wrote:
    as far as the lethians its been stated for years that the males are the attractive ones, in that case im not sure we are ready to see the kind of ugly their women possess :eek:

    And what's so bad about that?
    Would it be so horrible to have a race ingame where "Your mother is uglier than an army boot" is considered a compliment?:p


    The real question would be whether Gorn females would serve in their military or be allowed to ride in starships.
    That would be the determining factor IMO whether they should be playable or not.
    Same goes for the Lethean females.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    That's a good question. But honestly...how would female Gorn look? They're reptiles, so no mammary glads. They don't have hair. Would they be bigger? Smaller? More colorful or more pale? I like to pretend that female Gorn are rare and operate more like Queen Ants (I know they're not insects) where they lay tons of little Gorny eggs.

    Perhaps female Gorn could have colorful feathers on top of their head and vibrant skin colors? And a smaller less muscular body?

    As for the Letheans...I have no clue, maybe they don't have separate sexes. If they did how would they look?
    I have a hard time picturing This in an Orion bikini with pigtails.

    Whats wrong with having a female gorn with *****? I say why noit.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    All this talk about gorn women, why not have gorn women with mammery glands (b.o.o.b.s). In my opinion, there should be male and female's of all races, not some cast system.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    starwolf77 wrote: »
    All this talk about gorn women, why not have gorn women with mammery glands (b.o.o.b.s). In my opinion, there should be male and female's of all races, not some cast system.

    Holy Necro!

    To answer that question:
    the STO Novel "The Needs of the Many" makes it clear that the Gorn have a caste system and that it's the same as in the Pocket Books novel series.
    And why Gorn females would not have mammery glands should be so blatantly obvious noone should have to say it, but I guess I'll need to: they are reptiles, not mammals.:)
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    starwolf77 wrote: »
    All this talk about gorn women, why not have gorn women with mammery glands (b.o.o.b.s). In my opinion, there should be male and female's of all races, not some cast system.

    I disagree because then it would make me feel compelled to make females too and I already have too many characters already.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    mister_dee wrote:
    And why Gorn females would not have mammery glands should be so blatantly obvious noone should have to say it, but I guess I'll need to: they are reptiles, not mammals.:)
    Humans are the only playable mammals in the game, yet TRIBBLE seem to be pretty universal among females of different STO species.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    troodon311 wrote: »
    Humans are the only playable mammals in the game, yet TRIBBLE seem to be pretty universal among females of different STO species.

    Bajorans are not mammals?
    Vulcans are not mammals?
    Klingons are not mammals?
    Betazoids are not mammals?
    Do you actually know Star Trek?
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    I'd support this only if we can have a one-time gender change on any existing Gorn/Lethean/Nausicaan captains or boffs already in play. Even if there's no difference at all other than a word in the bio saying "male" or "female," I'd really want this. My Gorn captain is based on a female character, not a male one...
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    mister_dee wrote:
    Bajorans are not mammals?
    Vulcans are not mammals?
    Klingons are not mammals?
    Betazoids are not mammals?
    Do you actually know Star Trek?

    Caitians are mammales also :D
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    mister_dee wrote:
    Holy Necro!

    To answer that question:
    the STO Novel "The Needs of the Many" makes it clear that the Gorn have a caste system and that it's the same as in the Pocket Books novel series.
    And why Gorn females would not have mammery glands should be so blatantly obvious noone should have to say it, but I guess I'll need to: they are reptiles, not mammals.:)

    Putting mammery glands upon gorn women would not make the mammels, it kind of gives a distinction or seperation between the genders. Also, holograms have a chest and they dont need them, and what about the saurian women, I'm prettyu sure they are a reptial race and yet they have bo.obs. I say it put distinction between the races. I have a gorn toon and if they did make gorn women playable I would like that distinction. If you ask me, when MMO's make characters that there is little to no distinction between the genders of race it make it boring and slightly annoying. For example, the Warforged race that are on the dungeons and dragons online game.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    And besides, have you ever seen fan fiction or fan art of lizard or repitialian women, they do put bo.obs on them.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    mister_dee wrote:
    Holy Necro!
    And why Gorn females would not have mammery glands should be so blatantly obvious noone should have to say it, but I guess I'll need to: they are reptiles, not mammals.:)

    That said female members of the species would likely have notable differences of physical appearance.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    starwolf77 wrote: »
    Putting mammery glands upon gorn women would not make the mammels, it kind of gives a distinction or seperation between the genders. Also, holograms have a chest and they dont need them, and what about the saurian women, I'm prettyu sure they are a reptial race and yet they have bo.obs. I say it put distinction between the races. I have a gorn toon and if they did make gorn women playable I would like that distinction. If you ask me, when MMO's make characters that there is little to no distinction between the genders of race it make it boring and slightly annoying. For example, the Warforged race that are on the dungeons and dragons online game.

    Last time I checked mammary glands are one of the defining aspects of mammals so putting those on another genus and saying it doesn't turn them into mammals is like saying when you remove the hair from the top of someone's head you don't make him bald.

    That holograms have them is for the simple reason that they are supposed to be a simulation that contains familiar characteristics.
    And in that case we know the Doctor on Voyager got only those characteristics that were visible (he was a "Ken-Doll") while anything else was a later addition.

    With regards to the Saurians there's the same question as there is with the Cardassians: how non-humanoid are they given they're appearently evolved from something other than mammals yet have mammalian features like giving birth to live children?

    In case of the Gorn it's clear that's not the case.
    And to be blunt: are so unimaingative that you can't think of any other way to differentiate male from female that grafting humanoid characterics on them?
    There are other ways of achieving that.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexual_dimorphism

    For example in many species females are a lot bigger than males.
    So why not use that as a starting point?

    Or like in other cases, the males have a larger head while the females have a larger body (relatively speaking)

    http://www.jstor.org/pss/3545893

    Or like in case of the Grass Snake the heads have drastically different shapes:

    http://www.surrey-arg.org.uk/SARG/08000-TheAnimals/SARGSpeciesData.asp?Species=Grass_Snake
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    Starwolf, no they are not mammals, only terrestrial creatures can be mammals. They might be mammalian, but not mammals, its a scientific difference. Vulcans have copper rather than iron based blood (not sure if based is correct word), and so on and so forth. Gorn might have mammeries, 1- 100 for all we know. I for one would love Females in more of the alien species, of course i would like if some of the alien women did not conform the the humanocentric standards we keep getting in Star Trek.
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