Unfortunately, there aren't enough hardcore folks to justify making a bunch of new STF's.
This, I fear, is going to ultimately kill the game. Perhaps not kill it in the sense of shutting the servers down, but kill it as a major MMO competitor and reduce it down to the F2P Asian MMO type genre.
The reason is simple: A goodly number of people who play MMOs understand that endgame content is part of the package. I think the biggest similarity to STO and a single player game is STO's lack of endgame content. For those of us who actually like playing the game instead of paying a sub for a glorified chat room, hitting the level cap means you're done. Sure, you can stretch it another month or so by grinding for emblems or anomalies to tweak out your gear, but then what? I literally have to blow the dust off my Galaxy retrofit when a new FE comes out because I have no reason to play my main. All of my ship slots are purple (aside from some consoles), I have multiple sets of Borg gear, an Aegis set, and, well, there are no more goals to pursue.
And that's what gamers want ... goals. Now, I'll begin this with a disclaimer: I love what Cryptic has done so far, and I'm looking forward to revamping ground combat. However, having said that, it appears the most VOCAL people want more pets, more uniforms, more social areas where they can "hang out," better ship interiors and more rooms in their ships, bridge functionality, etc. etc. Well I'll be very blunt on this. I want content that I can PLAY. I can't play a pet nor can I play a bridge. Yes, I know the Foundry is coming out soon, and while the Foundry is going to offer some entertaining missions, it doesn't offer a goal.
The Dev I quoted says there aren't enough "hardcore" players to justify making more STFs. My guess is this is because most of them have already quit the game. The general opinion seems that most players want STO to be a fluff game like Second LIfe in space filled with fashion shows, shiny new ships, and cool places to hang out.
People keep saying that STO is an MMORPG, and they're right. Notice it is NOT a Massively Multiplayer Online Chat Room. It's a game. I know plenty of people who have 4 or 5 VA level characters just sitting around waiting for the next FE, and guess what - we're not seeing any more of those for months. Now, if there was faction reputation to gain or more STFs to run or more gear to chase down, the wait wouldn't seem so arduous. But right now, all there is to do at VA is level another VA. Oh, and PvP if you're in to that. I'm not.
I love this game and I'll wait patiently, but many others won't, and I fear many others have already left for greener pastures, so to speak.
well i guess it's what your going to have to do because these thing's are going into the game so have fun with all the right click ignore your ganna have to do
Fully ambient broadcast voice, instead of channel-binding, would be ludicrous. Dealing with the idiocy prevalent in Local and Zone is irritating enough when it's textual. Voice isn't conveniently tagged with who to put on ignore and text can't hide behind a box to obfuscate the source.
That said, I doubt the devs are that stupid or that the servers could handle it anyway.
This, I fear, is going to ultimately kill the game. Perhaps not kill it in the sense of shutting the servers down, but kill it as a major MMO competitor and reduce it down to the F2P Asian MMO type genre.
The reason is simple: A goodly number of people who play MMOs understand that endgame content is part of the package. I think the biggest similarity to STO and a single player game is STO's lack of endgame content. For those of us who actually like playing the game instead of paying a sub for a glorified chat room, hitting the level cap means you're done. Sure, you can stretch it another month or so by grinding for emblems or anomalies to tweak out your gear, but then what? I literally have to blow the dust off my Galaxy retrofit when a new FE comes out because I have no reason to play my main. All of my ship slots are purple (aside from some consoles), I have multiple sets of Borg gear, an Aegis set, and, well, there are no more goals to pursue.
/snip/
I love this game and I'll wait patiently, but many others won't, and I fear many others have already left for greener pastures, so to speak.
I think you are right on the money here.
Been playing since beta, and I have 5 VA's currently (well, technically 4 VAs, 1 LG). The only goal I have left is the borg gear on my Klink, and organizing activities for fleeties. And a lot of older fleeties don't log on much anymore as they have been at level cap for a while. They show up for the FE's, but it might be a while before the next one.
I'm a solo player, but it's really not because I'm anti social or anything (don't let the fact I'm a Romulan fool you;)) I have no problems chatting in the forums.
I haven't reached Rear Admiral yet so I don't know what to expect when I get the STF missions, but I'm perfectly fine looking for a team when the time comes.
To answer the question, why play an MMO if you want solo content? Well, it's pretty simple isn't it? I'm a trekkie. I play Trek games.
I'm not used to MMOs so I don't really know what to do in-game to find a group of like-minded players. As I said, I have no problems chatting in the forums, but when it comes to game-time, I don't want to get distracted by people wanting to chat to me. Maybe that is considered bad etiquette or anti social, but I'm an old fashioned gamer. What can I do?
I think that making an MMO for the sake of making an MMO is misguided. You have to make a good playing experience first and foremost, which I think Cryptic have done a good job with.
I'd also like to just explain my view on rewards and goals. Lyndisty said in an above post that gamers want goals. I'd say that's not strictly true. What I want from a game is an enjoyable, immersive experience, I'm not really concerned if that Vice Admiral has a borg device sticking out the back of his ship. I wouldn't use Borg tech as I think that's dicing with forces we can't possibly predict.
I see alot of conflict on these forums between those who want a more immersive experience and those who want a more social MMO experience. I'm not saying either camp is right, although I'm firmly camped in the former. I just feel that there should be room for both.
Lets see a Devs point of view on this quote as well as this topic of the thread as a whole. And btw...The Dev in question is actually in charge of STFs btw.
Since you seem to think that quote is the "last word" on the subject, and you already knew about it, then why did you post this thread in the first place?
it appears the most VOCAL people want more pets, more uniforms, more social areas where they can "hang out," better ship interiors and more rooms in their ships, bridge functionality, etc. etc. Well I'll be very blunt on this. I want content that I can PLAY. I can't play a pet nor can I play a bridge.
Agreed, those things are nice but I can only hang out on my bridge with my horta for so long before i get bored of it.
I don't pay for an MMO so that I can go dancing at club 47 with some alien in body armour. If I want to go dancing with people I will do it in real life, I come here to play a game.
The Dev I quoted says there aren't enough "hardcore" players to justify making more STFs. My guess is this is because most of them have already quit the game
This is my biggest fear with this game. Hardcore players are the people who log on daily and give you your money. How many months will someone pay to climb a wall on ESD and then shoot off a party favour?
Since you seem to think that quote is the "last word" on the subject, and you already knew about it, then why did you post this thread in the first place?
If you checked when I first opened this thread, it was approximately 3:00pm EST today. And Gozar posted on the other thread at approximately 6:30pm EST. Nuff Sed..
Agreed, those things are nice but I can only hang out on my bridge with my horta for so long before i get bored of it.
I don't pay for an MMO so that I can go dancing at club 47 with some alien in body armour. If I want to go dancing with people I will do it in real life, I come here to play a game.
This is my biggest fear with this game. Hardcore players are the people who log on daily and give you your money. How many months will someone pay to climb a wall on ESD and then shoot off a party favour?
What makes you believe that there are not enough Casual Players around to balance out the loss.
And I was Paying Monthly (till I went LTS with the last sale).... not Daily, so even though I wasn't on-line every single day of the month (though there were very few days that I wasn't playing), I was still contributing to the over all health of the game (like many others) with my monthly stipend to Cryptic (as well as the occasional C-Store purchase)...
I don't believe that Hardcore Players (and I'm still not sure if I'm one of those) leaving for a few months and then coming back, are something that are going to hurt the game.
But having a large contingent of Casual Players that also pay Monthly and stick around, is something that will definitely Help the game.
If you checked when I first opened this thread, it was approximately 3:00pm EST today. And Gozar posted on the other thread at approximately 6:30pm EST. Nuff Sed..
What's really funny...,
That quote of Gozer's that you copied..., is like the THIRD TIME he's posted it on the forum's in the last month or so. :rolleyes:
your generally not expected to group up although you can if you choose there isnt any incentive, the fact that people can turn off the grouping facility is a major flaw which i think should be reversed.
And I would never have subscribed at the outset nor bought a Lifetime sub during the Anniversary sale (nor would my wife have).
Just because your preferred playstyle is grouping doesn't mean that's the case for everyone. MMO does not mean forced-grouping; that's a very obsolete notion with regard to modern MMOs. Even a lot of the older MMOs are adding soloable content now to gain and retain customers. These changes are based on MMO industry data-mining of playstyles. The flexibility you deplore is part of the success of this game, because no one is stuck in "must solo" or "must group" mode.
As I mentioned in another thread, if you look back at the original "massively multiplayer" games, i.e., MUDs, many were set up so that you could solo or team as you wished. Forced-grouping became fashionable later, and now the pendulum is swinging back to give more players the ability to experience the content as they wish. That brings in a broader player base (i.e., more paying customers).
That said, I too think tiered STFs would be a good thing. Group-specific content is necessary, whether everybody participates in it or not.
Agreed, those things are nice but I can only hang out on my bridge with my horta for so long before i get bored of it.
I don't pay for an MMO so that I can go dancing at club 47 with some alien in body armour. If I want to go dancing with people I will do it in real life, I come here to play a game.
This is my biggest fear with this game. Hardcore players are the people who log on daily and give you your money. How many months will someone pay to climb a wall on ESD and then shoot off a party favour?
I don't play for those reasons either, and I want content to sink my teeth into. I'm also not interested in STFs or raids. More Featured Episodes and storyline content (like City on the Edge of Never and so forth) is what interests me most. But I too believe STFs are valuable and will promote that notion as well. But not to the exclusion of the rest of the content for the broader playerbase.
You'll never see any of my characters dancing in Club 47. I do, however, want the uniforms and ship interiors; they are part of the overall game experience. I enjoy the "fluff" side as well, but not wall-climbing and party-poppering (which is somewhat less than immersive).. Basically, I want both immersion and action.
Please don't generalize on what "solo/small group" players are like; by and large it is a mischaracterization.
I tolerate the MMO status because it is Star Trek.
I like others that are belittled by the "Community" am out working in RL to afford being able to live and play this game so I don't have the time or the friends (Strike that, I have many friends here now, comrades in misery suffering from PTSD from doing the STFs)
Multiplayer was developed so game companies could give you less for more money, substituting other players for a competant game AI. This began the end of true gaming as we know it.
Somehow it became the standard.
I would be playing this game if it were a single player game like Dawn of War 2. I actually think that might be better.
I don't play this game because it's an MMO either. It's just a game set in the Star Trek Universe that is more than an RTS in disguise.
One only needs to look through this thread and see the superior attitudes of those who "know better" than anyone else to understand why I don't wanna group with any of you. Ever. Since I started playing this game I've never had a pug that was any good. So I turned off grouping.
Does this mean I'm not ever gonna get Borg Gear? More than likely. Does that matter to me? Not really. The graphical effects added to the ship for the Borg stuff look ugly anyway. I can purple out my ship through crafting or emblems anyway.
Just go and look through the Missions forum and see how many people have long lists of rules to follow when doing these things. It's TRIBBLE. I see absolutely no reason to spend 2-4 hours of my free time running through one of these with that kind of person. Unfortunately, that kind of person is exactly the type who is attracted to them.
Ok, I have a serious question for the community, and perhaps the devs. It seems that quite a few individuals want to see STFs made soloable. But it begs the question....why play an MMO if you want all content soloable? I, for one, wanted to take a break from STO and played Dragon Age 2. It was quite the ride and I enjoyed it, but I came back to STO to do missions with fleetmates and perhaps a pug or two. The thing is, some people on here who have "single player" mindset want to make raids soloable "for the good of everyone". Is this really for the good of the community? We have fleet actions, pvp and stfs for group play, its true. But seems to me that most group activities cater to endgamers rather than encourage grouping from the start.
Champions Online has gotten one thing right, it tried to foster an air of cooperation from the start in its beginning zone with a group mission there. STO could learn a lesson from this and make it so that, at the very least, every rank from Lt. to Capt has its own STF/STFs that provides some type of reward so as to further the cause of teamplay. This way, the odds of someone not teaming til their first STF is minimized...any thoughts?
I really like the group missions in champions. I think they tried with the crystalline entity but when the players stopped playing for awhile it got hard. I think there is some room for improvement and I too would like to see this. Cryptic, make it so
And open up the sectors, they can still be "safe" for the faction they belong to.
If one was attacked by another player one could send a distress signal and NPC's show up in lets say 20 seconds. And the amount of help you would get depends on how close you are to your home space
You could also make it a safer PvP world by only allow players to attack the same rank or higher than one self.
And another way to stop players to gank others to much would be to set a number of times one could attack other players, and if one did it to much you turn "red" and others can attack you and if you die you would drop an Item, from lets say your consoles slots.
That would keap players from not ganking others to much
well, just a thought of mine.. Since I would love to get cloaked and attack a fed in his own system..
And open up the sectors, they can still be "safe" for the faction they belong to.
If one was attacked by another player one could send a distress signal and NPC's show up in lets say 20 seconds. And the amount of help you would get depends on how close you are to your home space
You could also make it a safer PvP world by only allow players to attack the same rank or higher than one self.
And another way to stop players to gank others to much would be to set a number of times one could attack other players, and if one did it to much you turn "red" and others can attack you and if you die you would drop an Item, from lets say your consoles slots.
That would keap players from not ganking others to much
well, just a thought of mine.. Since I would love to get cloaked and attack a fed in his own system..
And I agree with OP
Something like that will probably end up in the game (in a very limited fashion) eventually...
Maybe a couple of Sectors specific to PvP... but my guess is that it's gonna be a while.
Its attitudes like this, that do little to help the issue. You've invited folks to see how friendly your fleet is, while mocking them at the same time, as little more then greedy anti-social emos.
Wha?? No idea where that is coming from. Perhaps re-read the entire thread. Several have posted that they refuse to team ever, regardless of how friendly or helpful other people are.
By the way, those looking for soloable STFs and such, I would not be holding your breath.
Hey look... yet another thread disscussing the same topic I've already answered several times
So here we go again...
There is no such thing as a solo STF.. STF's will never be solo missions, period... end of story. A solo STF would be a regular episode.. and we make those all the time...
STF = Team Based mission
Episode = Solo or Team Mission
We are planning to overhual the current STF's at some point, but that task currently is not on my schedule. I doubt we will see any changes to them until after season 4, but that is just me guessing based on what I currently have on my list of tasks at the moment.
The current thinking on STF's is that we will get the DIfficulty Slider working for them, and give you the option to play them on Normal-Advanced-Elite modes.
You would still have to have a team to play them... This is not something we are going to change....
Normal would be easier and by default that means you could probably get by with fewer people on the team.. but you'll still have puzzles that require more than one human player to complete it.
Advanced would be close to the current level of difficulty.
Elite would be harder than they currently are now.
All three of these settings would have different rewards for completeing them, and the rewards that are attached to them now will most likely stay on the Advanced setting.... this means that there would be new rewards for completing it on Normal and Elite.
I would also LOVE to make tiered STF's at some point. Giving you the oportunity to have team based missions throughout your starfleet career.. If this were the case you have at least one STF availible for each hub.
We can't do that however until we see if the Difficulty Slider and rewarding you based on it works out.
Solo only players are never going to like STF's, end of story... However, right now only the hardcore folks really enjoy them the way they are currently made. Unfortunately, there aren't enough hardcore folks to justify making a bunch of new STF's.
It is my hope that reworking the current STF's with the difficulty slider, rewarding you based on map difficulty, adding in game voice client, and adding the new PVE Que system will open these mission up to more players and renew interest in making more down the road.. but we have to take this on step at a time.
The mentality of the people on both sides of this issue reminds me of the whole PvE vs PvP issue. The people who prefer to solo(or PvE) are pretty much happy to play how they like, and have no problem with the people who like to group(or PvP) playing the way they like. However, the people who like to group(or PvP) seem to want to force their playstyle on everyone else.
The mentality of the people on both sides of this issue reminds me of the whole PvE vs PvP issue. The people who prefer to solo(or PvE) are pretty much happy to play how they like, and have no problem with the people who like to group(or PvP) playing the way they like. However, the people who like to group(or PvP) seem to want to force their playstyle on everyone else.
The mentality of the people on both sides of this issue reminds me of the whole PvE vs PvP issue. The people who prefer to solo(or PvE) are pretty much happy to play how they like, and have no problem with the people who like to group(or PvP) playing the way they like. However, the people who like to group(or PvP) seem to want to force their playstyle on everyone else.
its not often i agree with the grand nagus, but i do on this.
sometimes its not a case of not wanting to team but not being able to. I personally have to often AFK and have to log suddenly and without warning on occasion as well, which really doesnt suit team-play unless i'm working with people who are aware of the circumstances and understand why.
and i'm not upset about unique rewards being offered for the STFs, more the fact that storyline is locked up in them.. if i want to experience that i have to try and go with a PuG or wait for enough of my extremely casual fleet to hit a high enough level.. just wish they'd do something to allow solo players to see that storyline if nothing else.
I agree with many points on this. I love Fleet actions, it is great cooperative PVE fun, and in a way, Passive PVP (Captain with highest score wins). Make some new, harder PVE Fleet Actions, with great rewards for 1st - 3rd. If the rewards Bind on equip, have low EC value, while still being highly desirable (Hey I would LOVE a Fleet action option for winning Borg Gear!!) and people were highly rewarded for supporting (healing / buffing), it would bring new life into some of the quieter fleet actions, and or new ones!
I often do spend hours doing these, and like the freedom of dropping out if needed. Being locked in for a dedicated STF is simply not something I can do with my casual gaming time.
I also agree with this. Fleet Actions are where it's at for us non-Fleeties. You can group with a bunch of people immediately toward a common goal. STO needs more Starbase 24-like missions.
I also agree with this. Fleet Actions are where it's at for us non-Fleeties. You can group with a bunch of people immediately toward a common goal. STO needs more Starbase 24-like missions.
I would agree with this save for the level banding making them such a pain in the TRIBBLE.
i personally dont like the stf missions. they are way to focussed on ground, way to long (some take 4h for unexpirienced players, cause its so ground focussed ;-)), and i never did one to the end so far. still i think, i wouldnt do them if they were soloable. i think they should not be soloable.
what i think should be soloable are the fleet-actions, cause some of the lower ones are not well visited, and the maps are this large, that you never see the other 2 ones to help them, and, whats more important: the "oh lets heal him/her" factor is VERY low in this game, due to lack of interface. only very few are looking what happens to other ones on the fleet-action map.
i like it, that the game offers those episodes for SP gameplay. i see this game more like a SP-game with the option to chat with other ones while playing. i think its okay. for me and for others. cause those who want to group for stf missions can do that, and get well rewarded with things ill never get access to. the SP content is fun without the high-end equip.
when i compare it to wow for example, which now got very less SP endcontent (consisting of 12 tolbarad dailys +5 shadow-highland that are done in 30-45minutes), that is hardly doable without any instance/raidequip (eg green gear-ddspecc-youll ever die in tolbarad due to 3sec repawn ^^), this way here is far more enjoyable for me.
i also like the instances now, at first i was kind of irretated, but it prevents me from getting ****ed of by others stealing ore and such. if i want to collect data samples, i just switch in the unknown systems, it may take 20% longer but im not interfered within my actions
The mentality of the people on both sides of this issue reminds me of the whole PvE vs PvP issue. The people who prefer to solo(or PvE) are pretty much happy to play how they like, and have no problem with the people who like to group(or PvP) playing the way they like. However, the people who like to group(or PvP) seem to want to force their playstyle on everyone else.
Touche, Nagus. Wise as ever. You should run for office! First Ferengi President of the Federation.
Adding to your observation...
What I find amazing are the authoritarian mindsets running rampant that want to dictate definitions, play-styles and what games others players should play. But I suppose they do help (in their own way) to push the developers to bring us additional and or different content.
The mentality of the people on both sides of this issue reminds me of the whole PvE vs PvP issue. The people who prefer to solo(or PvE) are pretty much happy to play how they like, and have no problem with the people who like to group(or PvP) playing the way they like. However, the people who like to group(or PvP) seem to want to force their playstyle on everyone else.
The big difference, I think, here Nagus is that unlike some instances with PVP (where people actually want forced pvp) nobody is trying to force anybody to do STFs. This game is perfectly enjoyable without them, and they're one (very tiny compared to any other aspect of the game) corner aimed at a certain type of player. In this case, the people on the pro-teaming side are just arguing that this type of content (that they like), namely STFs, should exist, whereas those who don't enjoy teaming don't want it to exist, for those folks, or anyone else. If you make the STFs soloable and considerably shorter...they aren't STFs, they're Feature Episodes. And not very good ones compared to the others that have been released.
Basically, STFs are our '5-man dungeons', some variation of which most MMOs have. So, I don't see how someone saying, "I like having 5-man dungeons, I don't want them broken down into quest chains' is trying to 'force' anyone into doing anything. On the other hand, the people saying, "I don't have the time to do 5-man dungeons" or "I don't like 5 man dungeons and therefore they shouldn't exist" are trying to pull the rug out from under part of the playerbase.
This game, from top to bottom, caters to the most casual of casual players. And so far its working out okay. But there are a lot of us who started playing this game with friends from other games, many of whom (all of whom in my case) left because there were absolutely zero elements in this game that cater to a 'hardcore' player. STFs are the only thing that even come close, and calling even them truly 'hardcore' content is kind of a farce. But at least its an area where superior time investment yields superior results.
TL;DR: Folks who like STFs aren't 'forcing' anyone to do anything. They're arguing that the type of content they enjoy has a place to exist in this game, against those who want everything in the game, from top to bottom, to cater to their own playstyle.
In this case, the people on the pro-teaming side are just arguing that this type of content (that they like), namely STFs, should exist, whereas those who don't enjoy teaming don't want it to exist, for those folks, or anyone else.
That is false. No one said the STFs should be removed, or changed to solo-only. All that anyone has requested is that a solo VERSION be added. That would mean the current group version would still exist.
TL;DR: Folks who like STFs aren't 'forcing' anyone to do anything. They're arguing that the type of content they enjoy has a place to exist in this game, against those who want everything in the game, from top to bottom, to cater to their own playstyle.
No one posting here in this topic has ever written or typed that they did not want forced-teaming missions to exist in the game. Please try reading the postings again.
But I suppose they do help (in their own way) to push the developers to bring us additional and or different content.
This is the real problem with the anti-STF argument. Essentially, those who don't like teaming are telling the Devs, "You're not allowed to make that type of content, because the majority of us prefer another type." Occasionally the anti-PVP crowd makes the same argument, i.e. "Don't waste time on new PVP maps/instances/rewards because most of us prefer PVE".
What the majority seems to want in this game (at least in terms of people making noise on the forums) is for all content to be soloable, faction neutral Feature Episodes, and for every major item in the game to be purchasable with both real world currency (for those 'without the time' to earn things in game), but also for a minimal effort in game (for those without the real world currency beyond $15 a month).
I have no problem with the Feature Episodes. They're probably my favorite content in the game (and I'm something of a PVPer). But that doesn't mean its all I want in the game. I also want to see more PVP content, more STF's (5-man content), and whatever other interesting types the devs can dream up. And even if those other types aren't to my own preference or don't gel with my own personal playstyle, that's fine with me if there are other people who will enjoy them.
Comments
This, I fear, is going to ultimately kill the game. Perhaps not kill it in the sense of shutting the servers down, but kill it as a major MMO competitor and reduce it down to the F2P Asian MMO type genre.
The reason is simple: A goodly number of people who play MMOs understand that endgame content is part of the package. I think the biggest similarity to STO and a single player game is STO's lack of endgame content. For those of us who actually like playing the game instead of paying a sub for a glorified chat room, hitting the level cap means you're done. Sure, you can stretch it another month or so by grinding for emblems or anomalies to tweak out your gear, but then what? I literally have to blow the dust off my Galaxy retrofit when a new FE comes out because I have no reason to play my main. All of my ship slots are purple (aside from some consoles), I have multiple sets of Borg gear, an Aegis set, and, well, there are no more goals to pursue.
And that's what gamers want ... goals. Now, I'll begin this with a disclaimer: I love what Cryptic has done so far, and I'm looking forward to revamping ground combat. However, having said that, it appears the most VOCAL people want more pets, more uniforms, more social areas where they can "hang out," better ship interiors and more rooms in their ships, bridge functionality, etc. etc. Well I'll be very blunt on this. I want content that I can PLAY. I can't play a pet nor can I play a bridge. Yes, I know the Foundry is coming out soon, and while the Foundry is going to offer some entertaining missions, it doesn't offer a goal.
The Dev I quoted says there aren't enough "hardcore" players to justify making more STFs. My guess is this is because most of them have already quit the game. The general opinion seems that most players want STO to be a fluff game like Second LIfe in space filled with fashion shows, shiny new ships, and cool places to hang out.
People keep saying that STO is an MMORPG, and they're right. Notice it is NOT a Massively Multiplayer Online Chat Room. It's a game. I know plenty of people who have 4 or 5 VA level characters just sitting around waiting for the next FE, and guess what - we're not seeing any more of those for months. Now, if there was faction reputation to gain or more STFs to run or more gear to chase down, the wait wouldn't seem so arduous. But right now, all there is to do at VA is level another VA. Oh, and PvP if you're in to that. I'm not.
I love this game and I'll wait patiently, but many others won't, and I fear many others have already left for greener pastures, so to speak.
Fully ambient broadcast voice, instead of channel-binding, would be ludicrous. Dealing with the idiocy prevalent in Local and Zone is irritating enough when it's textual. Voice isn't conveniently tagged with who to put on ignore and text can't hide behind a box to obfuscate the source.
That said, I doubt the devs are that stupid or that the servers could handle it anyway.
I think you are right on the money here.
Been playing since beta, and I have 5 VA's currently (well, technically 4 VAs, 1 LG). The only goal I have left is the borg gear on my Klink, and organizing activities for fleeties. And a lot of older fleeties don't log on much anymore as they have been at level cap for a while. They show up for the FE's, but it might be a while before the next one.
I haven't reached Rear Admiral yet so I don't know what to expect when I get the STF missions, but I'm perfectly fine looking for a team when the time comes.
To answer the question, why play an MMO if you want solo content? Well, it's pretty simple isn't it? I'm a trekkie. I play Trek games.
I'm not used to MMOs so I don't really know what to do in-game to find a group of like-minded players. As I said, I have no problems chatting in the forums, but when it comes to game-time, I don't want to get distracted by people wanting to chat to me. Maybe that is considered bad etiquette or anti social, but I'm an old fashioned gamer. What can I do?
I think that making an MMO for the sake of making an MMO is misguided. You have to make a good playing experience first and foremost, which I think Cryptic have done a good job with.
I'd also like to just explain my view on rewards and goals. Lyndisty said in an above post that gamers want goals. I'd say that's not strictly true. What I want from a game is an enjoyable, immersive experience, I'm not really concerned if that Vice Admiral has a borg device sticking out the back of his ship. I wouldn't use Borg tech as I think that's dicing with forces we can't possibly predict.
I see alot of conflict on these forums between those who want a more immersive experience and those who want a more social MMO experience. I'm not saying either camp is right, although I'm firmly camped in the former. I just feel that there should be room for both.
Since you seem to think that quote is the "last word" on the subject, and you already knew about it, then why did you post this thread in the first place?
Agreed, those things are nice but I can only hang out on my bridge with my horta for so long before i get bored of it.
I don't pay for an MMO so that I can go dancing at club 47 with some alien in body armour. If I want to go dancing with people I will do it in real life, I come here to play a game.
This is my biggest fear with this game. Hardcore players are the people who log on daily and give you your money. How many months will someone pay to climb a wall on ESD and then shoot off a party favour?
If you checked when I first opened this thread, it was approximately 3:00pm EST today. And Gozar posted on the other thread at approximately 6:30pm EST. Nuff Sed..
What makes you believe that there are not enough Casual Players around to balance out the loss.
And I was Paying Monthly (till I went LTS with the last sale).... not Daily, so even though I wasn't on-line every single day of the month (though there were very few days that I wasn't playing), I was still contributing to the over all health of the game (like many others) with my monthly stipend to Cryptic (as well as the occasional C-Store purchase)...
I don't believe that Hardcore Players (and I'm still not sure if I'm one of those) leaving for a few months and then coming back, are something that are going to hurt the game.
But having a large contingent of Casual Players that also pay Monthly and stick around, is something that will definitely Help the game.
What's really funny...,
That quote of Gozer's that you copied..., is like the THIRD TIME he's posted it on the forum's in the last month or so. :rolleyes:
And I would never have subscribed at the outset nor bought a Lifetime sub during the Anniversary sale (nor would my wife have).
Just because your preferred playstyle is grouping doesn't mean that's the case for everyone. MMO does not mean forced-grouping; that's a very obsolete notion with regard to modern MMOs. Even a lot of the older MMOs are adding soloable content now to gain and retain customers. These changes are based on MMO industry data-mining of playstyles. The flexibility you deplore is part of the success of this game, because no one is stuck in "must solo" or "must group" mode.
As I mentioned in another thread, if you look back at the original "massively multiplayer" games, i.e., MUDs, many were set up so that you could solo or team as you wished. Forced-grouping became fashionable later, and now the pendulum is swinging back to give more players the ability to experience the content as they wish. That brings in a broader player base (i.e., more paying customers).
That said, I too think tiered STFs would be a good thing. Group-specific content is necessary, whether everybody participates in it or not.
I don't play for those reasons either, and I want content to sink my teeth into. I'm also not interested in STFs or raids. More Featured Episodes and storyline content (like City on the Edge of Never and so forth) is what interests me most. But I too believe STFs are valuable and will promote that notion as well. But not to the exclusion of the rest of the content for the broader playerbase.
You'll never see any of my characters dancing in Club 47. I do, however, want the uniforms and ship interiors; they are part of the overall game experience. I enjoy the "fluff" side as well, but not wall-climbing and party-poppering (which is somewhat less than immersive).. Basically, I want both immersion and action.
Please don't generalize on what "solo/small group" players are like; by and large it is a mischaracterization.
I tolerate the MMO status because it is Star Trek.
I like others that are belittled by the "Community" am out working in RL to afford being able to live and play this game so I don't have the time or the friends (Strike that, I have many friends here now, comrades in misery suffering from PTSD from doing the STFs)
Multiplayer was developed so game companies could give you less for more money, substituting other players for a competant game AI. This began the end of true gaming as we know it.
Somehow it became the standard.
I would be playing this game if it were a single player game like Dawn of War 2. I actually think that might be better.
One only needs to look through this thread and see the superior attitudes of those who "know better" than anyone else to understand why I don't wanna group with any of you. Ever. Since I started playing this game I've never had a pug that was any good. So I turned off grouping.
Does this mean I'm not ever gonna get Borg Gear? More than likely. Does that matter to me? Not really. The graphical effects added to the ship for the Borg stuff look ugly anyway. I can purple out my ship through crafting or emblems anyway.
Just go and look through the Missions forum and see how many people have long lists of rules to follow when doing these things. It's TRIBBLE. I see absolutely no reason to spend 2-4 hours of my free time running through one of these with that kind of person. Unfortunately, that kind of person is exactly the type who is attracted to them.
And open up the sectors, they can still be "safe" for the faction they belong to.
If one was attacked by another player one could send a distress signal and NPC's show up in lets say 20 seconds. And the amount of help you would get depends on how close you are to your home space
You could also make it a safer PvP world by only allow players to attack the same rank or higher than one self.
And another way to stop players to gank others to much would be to set a number of times one could attack other players, and if one did it to much you turn "red" and others can attack you and if you die you would drop an Item, from lets say your consoles slots.
That would keap players from not ganking others to much
well, just a thought of mine.. Since I would love to get cloaked and attack a fed in his own system..
And I agree with OP
Something like that will probably end up in the game (in a very limited fashion) eventually...
Maybe a couple of Sectors specific to PvP... but my guess is that it's gonna be a while.
Wha?? No idea where that is coming from. Perhaps re-read the entire thread. Several have posted that they refuse to team ever, regardless of how friendly or helpful other people are.
By the way, those looking for soloable STFs and such, I would not be holding your breath.
Source
Funny how that works, isn't it?
its not often i agree with the grand nagus, but i do on this.
sometimes its not a case of not wanting to team but not being able to. I personally have to often AFK and have to log suddenly and without warning on occasion as well, which really doesnt suit team-play unless i'm working with people who are aware of the circumstances and understand why.
and i'm not upset about unique rewards being offered for the STFs, more the fact that storyline is locked up in them.. if i want to experience that i have to try and go with a PuG or wait for enough of my extremely casual fleet to hit a high enough level.. just wish they'd do something to allow solo players to see that storyline if nothing else.
I also agree with this. Fleet Actions are where it's at for us non-Fleeties. You can group with a bunch of people immediately toward a common goal. STO needs more Starbase 24-like missions.
I would agree with this save for the level banding making them such a pain in the TRIBBLE.
what i think should be soloable are the fleet-actions, cause some of the lower ones are not well visited, and the maps are this large, that you never see the other 2 ones to help them, and, whats more important: the "oh lets heal him/her" factor is VERY low in this game, due to lack of interface. only very few are looking what happens to other ones on the fleet-action map.
i like it, that the game offers those episodes for SP gameplay. i see this game more like a SP-game with the option to chat with other ones while playing. i think its okay. for me and for others. cause those who want to group for stf missions can do that, and get well rewarded with things ill never get access to. the SP content is fun without the high-end equip.
when i compare it to wow for example, which now got very less SP endcontent (consisting of 12 tolbarad dailys +5 shadow-highland that are done in 30-45minutes), that is hardly doable without any instance/raidequip (eg green gear-ddspecc-youll ever die in tolbarad due to 3sec repawn ^^), this way here is far more enjoyable for me.
i also like the instances now, at first i was kind of irretated, but it prevents me from getting ****ed of by others stealing ore and such. if i want to collect data samples, i just switch in the unknown systems, it may take 20% longer but im not interfered within my actions
Touche, Nagus. Wise as ever. You should run for office!
Adding to your observation...
What I find amazing are the authoritarian mindsets running rampant that want to dictate definitions, play-styles and what games others players should play. But I suppose they do help (in their own way) to push the developers to bring us additional and or different content.
The big difference, I think, here Nagus is that unlike some instances with PVP (where people actually want forced pvp) nobody is trying to force anybody to do STFs. This game is perfectly enjoyable without them, and they're one (very tiny compared to any other aspect of the game) corner aimed at a certain type of player. In this case, the people on the pro-teaming side are just arguing that this type of content (that they like), namely STFs, should exist, whereas those who don't enjoy teaming don't want it to exist, for those folks, or anyone else. If you make the STFs soloable and considerably shorter...they aren't STFs, they're Feature Episodes. And not very good ones compared to the others that have been released.
Basically, STFs are our '5-man dungeons', some variation of which most MMOs have. So, I don't see how someone saying, "I like having 5-man dungeons, I don't want them broken down into quest chains' is trying to 'force' anyone into doing anything. On the other hand, the people saying, "I don't have the time to do 5-man dungeons" or "I don't like 5 man dungeons and therefore they shouldn't exist" are trying to pull the rug out from under part of the playerbase.
This game, from top to bottom, caters to the most casual of casual players. And so far its working out okay. But there are a lot of us who started playing this game with friends from other games, many of whom (all of whom in my case) left because there were absolutely zero elements in this game that cater to a 'hardcore' player. STFs are the only thing that even come close, and calling even them truly 'hardcore' content is kind of a farce. But at least its an area where superior time investment yields superior results.
TL;DR: Folks who like STFs aren't 'forcing' anyone to do anything. They're arguing that the type of content they enjoy has a place to exist in this game, against those who want everything in the game, from top to bottom, to cater to their own playstyle.
I agree.....the second M in MMO is MULTIPLAYER!!!
If people cannot handle grouping for multiplayer missions then they should NEVER be able to play that content.
Get over it folks...go play scrabble online, ohhhh i'm sorry tthat would require you to play with another person...nevermind.
That is false. No one said the STFs should be removed, or changed to solo-only. All that anyone has requested is that a solo VERSION be added. That would mean the current group version would still exist.
Actually, Scrabble can be played "solo"... ;P
<hands gmacd a dictionary to look up the definition of "MMORPG">
http://forums.startrekonline.com/showthread.php?p=3430599#post3430599
No one posting here in this topic has ever written or typed that they did not want forced-teaming missions to exist in the game. Please try reading the postings again.
This is the real problem with the anti-STF argument. Essentially, those who don't like teaming are telling the Devs, "You're not allowed to make that type of content, because the majority of us prefer another type." Occasionally the anti-PVP crowd makes the same argument, i.e. "Don't waste time on new PVP maps/instances/rewards because most of us prefer PVE".
What the majority seems to want in this game (at least in terms of people making noise on the forums) is for all content to be soloable, faction neutral Feature Episodes, and for every major item in the game to be purchasable with both real world currency (for those 'without the time' to earn things in game), but also for a minimal effort in game (for those without the real world currency beyond $15 a month).
I have no problem with the Feature Episodes. They're probably my favorite content in the game (and I'm something of a PVPer). But that doesn't mean its all I want in the game. I also want to see more PVP content, more STF's (5-man content), and whatever other interesting types the devs can dream up. And even if those other types aren't to my own preference or don't gel with my own personal playstyle, that's fine with me if there are other people who will enjoy them.