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Crytpic: Are you guys understaffed?

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  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    Though I understand the point of your post, and agree, I have to ask for elaboration on the statement I highlighted. Lets take the subject of new content, for example. How would having more people developing content NOT increase the speed at which it is made? Or how would having more people hunting and fixing bugs NOT increase the speed at which they are fixed? I suppose if those people didnt work well together, but lets assume they did.

    I think The Wishey, was specifically speaking about Fixing Existing Problems, not Creating New Content, with that part of her statement.


    And do you ALWAYS have to be sooo Dang-Nabbed Nit-Pickey... Oh Wait... I forgot... Ferengi... :p
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    DaveyNY wrote: »
    I think The Wishey, was specifically speaking about Fixing Existing Problems, not Creating New Content, with her statement.

    Thats fine, see the last 2 sentences of my post.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    DaveyNY wrote: »
    I think The Wishey, was specifically speaking about Fixing Existing Problems, not Creating New Content, with her statement.

    one of the existing problems is lack of content.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    Wait, who had the last word again?

    And to reply the question - their team could be bigger. They are hiring. But if no one qualified applies...

    Any prospective employee would be good at reading the forums and think about if they are willing to do the tremendous amount of work Cryptic employees seem to do. Maybe it's only Gozer, dstahl and CapnLogan that seem to do stuff in their private time, but... I doubt it. I am a software developer (but not a game developer), and I am not sure if I could commit myself to that kind of intensity and work schedule for a year or more. And I don't even have kids!

    I'd rather play more STO and appreciate the work put into it. (And criticize it like the spoiled brat I am when I am not satisfied. ;) )

    Someone said that they receive resumes and applications by the bucket. That is the reason their HR department never answer anyone directly.
    I'm a dev, too. I usually code 8 hours at work, and then code another 6-8 hours at home just to entertain myself :). I qualify on 2 posts (designer and coder), I applied a designer post, because there was no coder opening back than. Filled all the entry forms but never got an answer.
    While it is not mentioned explicitly on Cryptic's site, I suppose you have to move to Los Gatos and the home office or contractor job is out of question. That is sad because I live in Europe (but I'm open to everything anytime). BTW I could work for far less $ from home office :D.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    Sh1ngara wrote:
    one of the existing problems is lack of content.

    That's not a Problem... that's a Symptom.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    Though I understand the point of your post, and agree, I have to ask for elaboration on the statement I highlighted. Lets take the subject of new content, for example. How would having more people developing content NOT increase the speed at which it is made? Or how would having more people hunting and fixing bugs NOT increase the speed at which they are fixed? I suppose if those people didnt work well together, but lets assume they did.

    I think deductive logic would indicate Wishstone is referring to technical issues (as made clear in the OP).
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    I think deductive logic would indicate Wishstone is referring to technical issues (as made clear in the OP).

    http://forums.startrekonline.com/showthread.php?p=3424486#post3424486
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    DaveyNY wrote: »
    That's not a Problem... that's a Symptom.

    a symptom of a problem yes.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    Pendra37 wrote: »
    Someone said that they receive resumes and applications by the bucket. That is the reason their HR department never answer anyone directly.
    I'm a dev, too. I usually code 8 hours at work, and then code another 6-8 hours at home just to entertain myself :). I qualify on 2 posts (designer and coder), I applied a designer post, because there was no coder opening back than. Filled all the entry forms but never got an answer.
    While it is not mentioned explicitly on Cryptic's site, I suppose you have to move to Los Gatos and the home office or contractor job is out of question. That is sad because I live in Europe (but I'm open to everything anytime).

    wierd you said that, normally your not allowed to tell others that you apply or work for a games company unless your a head guy, they normally tell you not to and give you a sudanim if thats how its spelt as a company front so peeps cant ask you for stuff ingame.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    Sh1ngara wrote:
    wierd you said that, normally your not allowed to tell others that you apply or work for a games company unless your a head guy, they normally tell you not to and give you a sudanim if thats how its spelt as a company front so peeps cant ask you for stuff ingame.

    He's not saying he's a Dev for STO, just some other game. And as long as he doesnt say what game that is, then the problems you mentioned do not apply.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    Though I understand the point of your post, and agree, I have to ask for elaboration on the statement I highlighted. Lets take the subject of new content, for example. How would having more people developing content NOT increase the speed at which it is made? Or how would having more people hunting and fixing bugs NOT increase the speed at which they are fixed? I suppose if those people didnt work well together, but lets assume they did.

    I believe I can shed a bit of light on this as well. I run my own business and what Wish says has been shown true over and over. Sometimes, it just takes that piece of tech or that 1 good idea to "fix" a problem and tossing money and staff at a problem with no particuliar roadmap makes no sence what-so-ever. It really doesn't get the "answer" any faster and it does cost valuable resources that could be better used elsewhere.

    As for content? Even Bliz with it's 100 man dev team can not keep up with a playerbase' appetite for content. I see it with my 31 year old son who plays WoW. He re-subs for the new expansion, plays the new content, and unsubs as soon as he's got thru it, waiting till the next new expansion comes out to do it all over again. Maybe the answer here is to put in tools, (like foundry and/or a little sandbox) to let the players develope their own content to surfice in the mean times. There are games that have stood the test of time, as Wish says she's worked on, and most of them have those tools for players to make their own content/story.

    Personaly, I would be extreemly happy if Cryptic went in this direction rather than hiring a 100 man dev team (without the 13 mil subs to justify the cost), that will not be able to keep up anyway. Creating content, that takes weeks or even months, that the players will blow thru in a matter of hours and then want more.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    Thats fine, see the last 2 sentences of my post.

    As Wishey said... more money and/or staff do not always equal a faster resolution of a particular technical issue...

    So neither of your last two sentances seem to acknowledge that aspect.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    Esquire wrote: »
    I believe I can shed a bit of light on this as well. I run my own business and what Wish says has been shown true over and over. Sometimes, it just takes that piece of tech or that 1 good idea to "fix" a problem and tossing money and staff at a problem with no particuliar roadmap makes no sence what-so-ever. It really doesn't get the "answer" any faster and it does cost valuable resources that could be better used elsewhere.

    As for content? Even Bliz with it's 100 man dev team can not keep up with a playerbase' appetite for content. I see it with my 31 year old son who plays WoW. He re-subs for the new expansion, plays the new content, and unsubs as soon as he's got thru it, waiting till the next new expansion comes out to do it all over again. Maybe the answer here is to put in tools, (like foundry and/or a little sandbox) to let the players develope their own content to surfice in the mean times. There are games that have stood the test of time, as Wish says she's worked on, and most of them have those tools for players to make their own content/story.

    Personaly, I would be extreemly happy if Cryptic went in this direction rather than hiring a 100 man dev team (without the 13 mil subs to justify the cost), that will not be able to keep up anyway. Creating content, that takes weeks or even months, that the players will blow thru in a matter of hours and then want more.
    This may explain why Cryptic is needing more programmers. So many tasks in the game: from healing/repair minigames, to territory control, to exploration revamps, etc. need programming talent :)
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    Esquire wrote: »
    Sometimes, it just takes that piece of tech or that 1 good idea to "fix" a problem

    But arent you more likely to get that good iea faster if you have more brains thinking about it and bouncing ideas off one another?
    Esquire wrote: »
    As for content? Even Bliz with it's 100 man dev team can not keep up with a playerbase' appetite for content.

    No one said anything about keeping up with the playerbase. The statement simply said "faster", so my question was would not having more people developing content mean that it would be made "faster" than if you had less people?
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    well on the plus side blizzard will be dumping loads of its devs now cata is out and activision has the controls, poach some of them before they jump ship.

    and to the more hands dont make light work trend thats going along, no it always doesnt, but a set of fresh eyes and different way of thinking by a dif person within a team can resolve what was an impossible task before.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    Sh1ngara wrote:
    a symptom of a problem yes.

    The fact that there is a lack of New Content to please you...,

    Does not necessairly indicate that this is a significant problem with the game...

    It mearly indicates that STO is in the same boat as all other MMO's out there, because They can Never keep up with player demands.

    Thus a symptom of MMO's in general, not a problem.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    DaveyNY wrote: »
    The fact that there is a lack of New Content to please you...,

    Does not necessairly indicate that this is a significant problem with the game...

    It mearly indicates that STO is in the same boat as all other MMO's out there, because They can Never keep up with player demands.

    Thus a symptom of MMO's in general, not a problem.

    sorry what, endgame, leveling missions on kdf. explorable space for both sides, usable space for bpth sides. once a zone is done specifically on feds there is little use for them beyond mission replay and if your top end jumping down ranks for dse's unless your accolade hunting.

    and its not a symptom for all mmos. wow doesnt suffer this symptom, neither does eve or warhammer
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    Sh1ngara wrote:
    wierd you said that, normally your not allowed to tell others that you apply or work for a games company unless your a head guy, they normally tell you not to and give you a sudanim if thats how its spelt as a company front so peeps cant ask you for stuff ingame.

    You are usually not allowed to talk about wages and of course about company secrets. I don't think that filling out a public form without any "click here to sign the NDA" checkbox constitutes confidental information or establishes any kind of contractual connection between Cyptic and me. I could be wrong of course, that happened quite some time ago. Also judging from the lack of answers, I guess I was flat out rejected.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    Pendra37 wrote: »
    While it is not mentioned explicitly on Cryptic's site, I suppose you have to move to Los Gatos and the home office or contractor job is out of question. That is sad because I live in Europe (but I'm open to everything anytime). BTW I could work for far less $ from home office :D.

    The being European thing is what's stopping me from sending a CV their way. If they offer a reasonable relocation package as well as the all important H1B / EB3, I'll jump at the chance.

    Although I wonder what room there'll be for a 15+ year IT veteran that's cross training into practical / CGI film FX work. At the very least I can supply coffee and bawdy anecdotes.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    But aren't you more likely to get that good iea faster if you have more brains thinking about it and bouncing ideas off one another?



    No one said anything about keeping up with the player base. The statement simply said "faster", so my question was would not having more people developing content mean that it would be made "faster" than if you had less people?

    From a business viewpoint not necessairly...

    It comes down to a Cost to Income Ratio...

    Adding more staff could possibly resolve the situation faster, but does that guarantee to bring in more income...

    ...maybe not...

    I have no idea what ATARI's numbers are so I can only guess..., but a bit of logic would tend to indicate that if the game were not bringing in enough income, then there would probably NOT be any positions available at this time...

    And if it WERE bringing in a much greater Income Many More positions would be listed...

    But These kinda question's, need to be asked and answered by the Number Cruncher's at ATARi, not the folks who moderate and develop the game itself. :)
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    WishStone wrote:
    I've worked in my share of MMOs. Tiny ones that are soon seeing 14 years of run and huge ones that broke all records.

    All MMOs have bugs that plague them for a long time, all MMOs have these one or two issues that just will not go away. Stuck-In-Animation bugs. Server transition issues. Stability problems. Mechanics that break. Technical issues.
    Sometimes it can be even more frustrating. I've seen bugs that the Devs knew how to pin point but could not fix because that would cause an even bigger issue.

    I am not talking about any MMO in specific. But throwing money / staff at problems sadly does not resolve issues faster or, in some cases, ever.
    We're hiring (links were given) if anyone is interested, but we're not dragging along, either. The teams are doing a great job and I am sure they would love a little cheering-on I could link to them. The every-day doom is just as frustrating as a bug that cannot be found or fixed. :)

    14 years means UO pretty much. I played UO from beta until Everquest came out, and kept my account at least a year after that.

    I know that the game industry was hit hard by the recession. Lots of people, especially in Austin, TX, lost their jobs. I imagine you have lots of industry folks looking for a job if you're hiring. I guess they mostly don't have the exact skill set you're looking for then.

    No, throwing people at bugs you haven't figured out what they are yet (ie the ATI video card problems in STO) wont get them fixed faster, but more content people will mean more content. I'd love to see the budget of STO be able to handle more of that. And I did give a great tribute to the team for what they accomplish and how hard they work. I appreciate the dedication the team brings to the table every day, even when I argue for what I think should be done.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    The being European thing is what's stopping me from sending a CV their way. If they offer a reasonable relocation package as well as the all important H1B / EB3, I'll jump at the chance.

    Although I wonder what room there'll be for a 15+ year IT veteran that's cross training into practical / CGI film FX work. At the very least I can supply coffee and bawdy anecdotes.

    I've worked on freelancing projects all around the world from home. In the IT world distance has (or should have) no meaning. So I don't really care about relocation and green card, but I would not say no if I was offered one, of course.
    There are several, well established channels (like odesk for example) to hand out contractor work safely, without tons of paperwork and accounting headache.
    Sure, you miss out the usual pranks and team buildings working from your home. That is unfortunate, but you have all means to get the job done. And at the end of the day, that is all that matters.

    On a sidenote, why not send you CV anyway? You have nothing to loose and everything to win.
    Once I've seen CV, where a truck driver applied for an SQL specialist job. His relevant experience was a year in an IT library.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    Though I understand the point of your post, and agree, I have to ask for elaboration on the statement I highlighted. Lets take the subject of new content, for example. How would having more people developing content NOT increase the speed at which it is made? Or how would having more people hunting and fixing bugs NOT increase the speed at which they are fixed? I suppose if those people didnt work well together, but lets assume they did.

    There is only a limited number of people that can look at the same problem or solve the same task.

    How many people can work together to solve a cross-word puzzle! Not just finding a solution for a word, actually writing it down in the puzzle? People would be fighting for the pen and writing space,and if you add too many, some might want to solve the word at the same time and get into each other's way.

    That doesn't mean more people does not help, but you can't say that doubling the number of people working at something reduces the time to resolve it in half.

    There are always edges where different topics can touch, which creates a kind of bottleneck - unless these areas are unchecked, when it then leads to ripple effects damaging something else.

    For ship creation for example - 3 CapnLogans might not be able to make 3 times the number of ships, since there not only are there other Devs to do the game mechanics for them, but there is also a guy at CBS vetting the designs.

    Also, not everyone will be expert at everything, and the more people you get, the greater the chance is that people become even more specialized. 3 Chaddingtons might lead to one guy being expert for ground powers, one for space powers, and a third for items. If there are 3 bugs involving space powers, then Chaddington_Ground would not be able to help, or if he would be able to help, he would be slower at it then Chaddington_Space. If a problem affects both (why is Beam Fire At Will not working correctly with Beam Arrays?), Chaddington_Space might need Chaddington_Item's help, but Chaddington_Item is actually working on another problem right now. Which means that even Chaddington_Space loses time waiting for hi, or Chaddington_Item loses time by getting dragged away from his current task, addressing the new problem, and reworking himself into the new task.

    Of course, where you can avoid such conflicts and have a clear separation, you can gain a lot. But twice as much people does not mean twice as much results.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    But arent you more likely to get that good iea faster if you have more brains thinking about it and bouncing ideas off one another?



    No one said anything about keeping up with the playerbase. The statement simply said "faster", so my question was would not having more people developing content mean that it would be made "faster" than if you had less people?

    Not most of the time has been my experience. I currently hold 3 US patents. These came from basicly, the mechanics didn't exist for what my company wanted/needed to do. In such a case as this, it really takes sitting down with what you want to do, a understanding of existing tech, and trying to use the knowledge/experience that 1 has gained to come up with the answer. I found that people bouncing ideas off of me, in these cases, was really a distraction and not a help. And then there is the cost/return ratio that any business has to include in their decision making.

    Faster content will not make the problem go away. I seen this in my 7 years of SWG. SOE tried the content way (Bliz model) of development also and they did put out content faster. The problem with what they did, was to create a model that the playerbase became accustomed to, then demanded, and when they couldn't keep up, they lost subs. It's interesting to note that SOE didn't promise content coming once a week or once a month, but when it did come in a week's time, then it suddenly became the new precident that the playerbase demanded. And when they couldn't keep up, it cost them subs, even if the new time table was only in the minds of the players.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    DaveyNY wrote: »
    But These kinda question's, need to be asked and answered by the Number Cruncher's at ATARi, not the folks who moderate and develop the game itself. :)

    this is the problem right here. atari
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    WishStone wrote:
    I am not talking about any MMO in specific. But throwing money / staff at problems sadly does not resolve issues faster or, in some cases, ever.
    We're hiring (links were given) if anyone is interested, but we're not dragging along, either. The teams are doing a great job and I am sure they would love a little cheering-on I could link to them. The every-day doom is just as frustrating as a bug that cannot be found or fixed. :)

    Hands Wishy a steaming mug of hot chocolate with fresh whipped cream and chocolate shavings on top.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    There is only a limited number of people that can look at the same problem or solve the same task.

    How many people can work together to solve a cross-word puzzle! Not just finding a solution for a word, actually writing it down in the puzzle? People would be fighting for the pen and writing space,and if you add too many, some might want to solve the word at the same time and get into each other's way.

    .

    only if they are using the same pen and peice of paper the crossword is written on, adapt or die, resistance is futile.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    There is only a limited number of people that can look at the same problem or solve the same task.

    How many people can work together to solve a cross-word puzzle! Not just finding a solution for a word, actually writing it down in the puzzle? People would be fighting for the pen and writing space,and if you add too many, some might want to solve the word at the same time and get into each other's way.

    Unless your suggesting Cryptic only has one computer in their office, then that example makes no sense.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    Keep in mind that new people (even with years of experience) have to be trained first. This uses up human resources. And if the guy turns out to be unfit for the job, then that training time was a waste of time alltogether. So hiring new staff is actually contra-productive on the short run.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    Well, we do see a lot of people here thinking they know how to do it better than Cryptic. So I was just giving them a place to prove it. If you know how to do this job, then great, apply and let's get some good content flowing.

    Besides, there may be some genuinely talented people who didn't know where to look.

    Well looking at the OP.. I dont see him saying he can do better than Cryptic, He is simply asking Cryptic some questions.
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