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Hey Devs, kill 2 birds with 1 stone and make the next FE series Klingon based

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  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    Oh, I agree completely. However, if my guesses(as described in my previous post) are true, it will still change those percentages, and that will make the KDF a bigger development priority for official content. Once people dive in the Foundry and see how awesome the missions that people are making are, alot of them will say "hmm, I wonder what kind of missions there are for Klingons" and create characters to try them out.

    Well, I hope you're right, cause apparently right now, judging by one of the other post, Dstahl hates the KDF side.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    Thats only if you never play on new people coming into the game. But according to Cryptic, the game is growing. So if that is the case, then by adding more content to the Klingons that will make a difference in how those new people fit into the percentages we are discussing.

    All of that said, I think the Foundry is going to make a real difference in these percentages as well. Some people may not be aware of this, but Foundry missions are generally faction specific. That means if you want to play the KDF Foundry missions, you'll actually have to create a KDF character. I think alot of new KDF characters will be created to play Foundry missions, and that is going to change those percentages.

    Would they ever publicly say anything else? Of course not.

    Also, from the example of WoW, it has been determined that all new players will most likely pick human race and not the freaky aliens (that's what happened when WoW started - everyone rolled Alliance humans). I agree that Foundry will be very good for the KDF, but I doubt it will be the sole reason for anyone to join the klinks, unless there are some VERY VERY good missions.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    but I doubt it will be the sole reason for anyone to join the klinks, unless there are some VERY VERY good missions.

    The thing is, the only way to find out is to create a Klingon character. So the people who enjoy the Foundry on their Fed main will hopefully be curious enough to see what the Foundry holds for the KDF to create one. And every time that happens, the percentage of KDF players will go up.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    Would they ever publicly say anything else? Of course not.

    Also, from the example of WoW, it has been determined that all new players will most likely pick human race and not the freaky aliens (that's what happened when WoW started - everyone rolled Alliance humans). I agree that Foundry will be very good for the KDF, but I doubt it will be the sole reason for anyone to join the klinks, unless there are some VERY VERY good missions.

    I'm definitely not in that deal, when I played WoW, I rolled a Tauren, Taurens are awesome, that was until Blizzard allied with the evil...I mean Activision.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    And every time that happens, the percentage of KDF players will go up.

    not if the percentage of fed players increases proportionality too :p
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    not if the percentage of fed players increases proportionality too :p

    While that is true, that really doesnt make sense in the conversation we are having regarding the Foundry, as people will already be able to play all Fed based Foundry missions on their existing Fed character.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    Martok42 wrote: »
    Well actually it has been confirmed (Pretty sure, I'll see if I can find the post) That they will be releasing the Gorn updates in a Gorn centered Series. So actually, it IS coming.

    that is true
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    While that is true, that really doesnt make sense in the conversation we are having regarding the Foundry, as people will already be able to play all Fed based Foundry missions on their existing Fed character.

    oh i was thinking we were talking about the foundry increasing the player base with new players to each faction. i must have misread it.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    oh i was thinking we were talking about the foundry increasing the player base with new players to each faction. i must have misread it.

    Well hopefully that will happen to! :)

    But just for clarity, I was specifically talking about existing players creating a Klingon character to try out the Klingon foundry missions.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    Would they ever publicly say anything else? Of course not.

    Also, from the example of WoW, it has been determined that all new players will most likely pick human race and not the freaky aliens (that's what happened when WoW started - everyone rolled Alliance humans). I agree that Foundry will be very good for the KDF, but I doubt it will be the sole reason for anyone to join the klinks, unless there are some VERY VERY good missions.
    The KDF have some of the best missions in the game irregardless of the Foundry. ;)
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    The KDF have some of the best missions in the game irregardless of the Foundry. ;)

    That they do. And as the saying goes quality > quantity...at least until you run out. At that point, as I have said before, I'll take a mediocre quality missions over no mission at all.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    See, your first mistake was trusting anything Jack "Statesman" Emmert ever said. :p

    I think that more things for Klingons to do will lead directly to more people playing Klingons. Simple as that. "If you build it, they will come." Thing is, the things to do have to be there first. Demand coming before supply is what happened at launch, and it led swiftly to disillusionment and abandonment for all but a few (12%, you say?)

    I'm making a Klingon because (1) I'm new, so it's all new to me anyway and (2) I'm told that things are better, already, than they were a year ago. (That's the promise, applied to this whole game, that got me playing STO at last.) When it runs out, will I keep playing on that side? We'll find out together.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    That they do. And as the saying goes quality > quantity...at least until you run out. At that point, as I have said before, I'll take a mediocre quality missions over no mission at all.

    I agree. Kind of wish there were more sorties (even if they were as basic as ones in the Foundry). :)
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    When we pass the argument that both factions should have been equal from the start: tell me - how does developing content exclusive for 12 percent of players fit into businessplan of a company? I mean - it's a huge chunk of work, look how long it took Cryptic to make 5 missions...

    And this is why STO is not as popular as it could have been. With some people going so far as to say Cryptic have ruined the licence or that the devs have no idea what they are doing.

    Rather than make the game viable with 2 possible factions with lots of content and decent PvP we see very little content only one real faction and no PvP outside of mini games. And if anyone should say the game needs x or y or z the devs look at the numbers see that of those playing at the moment people don't seem to want it and don't add it. So rather than add much need elements to the game the community gets more uniform packs and more retro-fits of star fleet vessels and more star fleet vessel interior types. All things that don't add much needed elements to the game but rather try and get some cash out of people who want a different look. But because 82% of people play feds this to the devs is a better idea than adding aspects of the game that would bring players in.

    Now I think STO has a lot of potential but after a year things haven't moved on very much and its true it take Cryptic over a month to add 5 missions. If thats any indication of the size of the team it looks like they have less staff than free to play games.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    That they do. And as the saying goes quality > quantity...at least until you run out. At that point, as I have said before, I'll take a mediocre quality missions over no mission at all.

    So, if the KDF has some best missions out there and quality > quantity, why the hell do they complain at all? :D
    And this is why STO is not as popular as it could have been. With some people going so far as to say Cryptic have ruined the licence or that the devs have no idea what they are doing.

    Rather than make the game viable with 2 possible factions with lots of content and decent PvP we see very little content only one real faction and no PvP outside of mini games. And if anyone should say the game needs x or y or z the devs look at the numbers see that of those playing at the moment people don't seem to want it and don't add it. So rather than add much need elements to the game the community gets more uniform packs and more retro-fits of star fleet vessels and more star fleet vessel interior types. All things that don't add much needed elements to the game but rather try and get some cash out of people who want a different look. But because 82% of people play feds this to the devs is a better idea than adding aspects of the game that would bring players in.

    Now I think STO has a lot of potential but after a year things haven't moved on very much and its true it take Cryptic over a month to add 5 missions. If thats any indication of the size of the team it looks like they have less staff than free to play games.

    "Could have been" is a very tricky slope. I believe Cryptic did their best with the limited (!) budget they had. It wasn't like WoW, where Blizzard could draw from their own franchise, pouring virtually unlimited resources into the game. That's point one.

    Point two: It is what it is now, the proverbial milk is already spilled. So what now? How would adding KDF missions benefit the 88 or so percent of players? By forcing them to reroll to play new missions? I played Horde for some time. I know I'd feel TRIBBLE if there was Alliance epic whine on the forums and based on several vocal individuals, Alliance would get exclusive content with "Want it? Reroll Alliance" comment from the devs. What would I do? I'd unsubscribe. Simple as that.

    So yes, I am all for adding stuff for EVERYONE: featured episodes, new ships, new pvp system, territory control system, Foundry. That benefits both sides. Adding klink-only missions would not bring any more fresh players... well... maybe a few of those "special" people, who we see on Youtube swinging rubber batleths.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    SOme special feds;
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gbsv49jcZtQ&tracker=False
    So yes, I am all for adding stuff for EVERYONE: featured episodes, new ships, new pvp system, territory control system, Foundry.

    It doesn't benefit everyone though, as all other factions are just being drug along in the wake of teh federation. I personally don't like hand-me-downs or to know my investment in STO has gone towards very little to make my game experience better whilst the "#POOA" gets the Dev "happy-ending" everytime.
    Treating your customer base well as a whole is good bussiness, listening to some spout out the " self importance speech" over and over again is just display arrogance and elitism and perfectly demostrates that the feds believe all fans of anything counter-fed are not worth the effort and should just remain "the whipping boys" of STO.

    I invested in Star Trek online (the whole genre) not Star Fleet online the federation MMO.
    I see now my hope and monies was wasted on a ego stroke for those fans whom no longer can talk of equality but do not mean it and merely need some reason to feed thier on egoes and inflate their self importance.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    Roach wrote: »

    :D:D Made me laugh, thanks
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    When we pass the argument that both factions should have been equal from the start: tell me - how does developing content exclusive for 12 percent of players fit into businessplan of a company?

    Very easily. They will never grow that 12% if they do not provide anything in the way of content for new people to do.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    Very easily. They will never grow that 12% if they do not provide anything in the way of content for new people to do.

    And you assume that giving klinks more content will draw more new players.... why? Because it's proven for a fact that new players almost always pick the human race for starters (WoW when it started, everyone wanted to play Alliance humans - AND WoW started with balanced factions)
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    And you assume that giving klinks more content will draw more new players.... why? Because it's proven for a fact that new players almost always pick the human race for starters (WoW when it started, everyone wanted to play Alliance humans - AND WoW started with balanced factions)

    You are assuming it would not. ;)

    Using your own example, people have had a year now to play their Federation "Humans". Perhaps the time is right now for more KDF specific content? No one really knows. Simply dismissing the idea because "that's what WoW did" is idiotic.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    And you assume that giving klinks more content will draw more new players.... why? Because it's proven for a fact that new players almost always pick the human race for starters (WoW when it started, everyone wanted to play Alliance humans - AND WoW started with balanced factions)

    Sure, almost always as a starter according to what data source? Popular theory?
    When those same players have some game time under thier belts and wish to expand into the other factions what will they find? Damned little to keep them occupied on any alts or other factions becuase the content is all lopsided.
    We fans of the KDF can understand a lopsided development of content and know that the feds will always have the lions share but what you keep saying is that its not the worth the Devs time to even attempt to fill out the the KDF or any other non-fed faction at all.
    That is wrong and such an outlook only hurts the game as a whole as new and old players quickly learn that the have no options for enjoyable gameplay outside of the federation and give up thier alts due to stagnant alternatice gameplay.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    You are assuming it would not. ;)

    Using your own example, people have had a year now to play their Federation "Humans". Perhaps the time is right now for more KDF specific content? No one really knows. Simply dismissing the idea because "that's what WoW did" is idiotic.

    First, it's not "that's what WoW did", but "that's what happened with WoW" - huge difference. Second, WoW is about the best testbed for any MMO practice, because it's simply the biggest one.
    Besides you are turning it around - you assume klink content would draw new people (why? I for myself would never play klinks even if they have MORE content than feds, because I don't like them), while common sense dictates that creating content for 12 percent of players, while you can create content for 100 percent of players at the same time, is just silly.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    Roach wrote: »
    Sure, almost always as a starter according to what data source? Popular theory?
    When those same players have some game time under thier belts and wish to expand into the other factions what will they find? Damned little to keep them occupied on any alts or other factions becuase the content is all lopsided.
    We fans of the KDF can understand a lopsided development of content and know that the feds will always have the lions share but what you keep saying is that its not the worth the Devs time to even attempt to fill out the the KDF or any other non-fed faction at all.
    That is wrong and such an outlook only hurts the game as a whole as new and old players quickly learn that the have no options for enjoyable gameplay outside of the federation and give up thier alts due to stagnant alternatice gameplay.

    There was actually a survey on this, I have read it about 2 years back.
    I am not defending general Cryptic policy here, god knows I think some of their decisions, such as mission "remasters", or lately the tractor mines, are odd. And I agree - if Cryptic, instead of putting together a few featured episodes, focused on improving the UI and giving some sort of way, that would allow everyone to matter (say, territory control), would be better. "What to do" for everybody, not just klinks.

    I just have the feeling that this isn't about "we want more to do in the game", but "we want the same as the feds".
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    they need a poll again..... simple really.

    they will have their plans but they can always put a poll out and ask again.

    personally i'd like to see more of this romulan story line later on maybe drawing closer to them being added to the game as a playable faction etc.

    while i agree the klingons need love. i still think that should be happening anyway.

    if ds9 is being worked on, thats close to cardassian space so i'd like to think that could have a big cardassian infulence in that feature series. which i'd really like to see.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    First, it's not "that's what WoW did", but "that's what happened with WoW" - huge difference. Second, WoW is about the best testbed for any MMO practice, because it's simply the biggest one.
    Besides you are turning it around - you assume klink content would draw new people (why? I for myself would never play klinks even if they have MORE content than feds, because I don't like them), while common sense dictates that creating content for 12 percent of players, while you can create content for 100 percent of players at the same time, is just silly.

    WoW is not STO. I could give a hoot if more people rolled a human than Horde at first in WoW. How many of those people went on to create a Horde after playing their human for a while?

    Why do I believe adding more KDF specific content would draw more players? I can only speak to my personal experience, but I do know that after leveling my Klingon to cap there is not much in the way of content or variety for Klingons that would make me want to roll another. If there were more content and more variety in ships, costumes etc. then I would be playing my Klingons daily. So to me, lack of variety is what hurts the KDF. Were they to add more KDF specific content and more KDF variety, that would equal more KDF playtime for me. I will guarantee you that I am not the only person who feels this way either. Personally, I believe it is better in the long term for STO to have more KDF specific content.

    Common sense also dictates that if you want to grow something, you give it attention. As an example, my company had a small percentage of their business coming from Asian markets. They invested the time and resources to grow those markets, and business there has increased for us ten fold in the past few years. Following your nonsensical logic, we should have just abandoned it and focused on other areas because it was a small percent of our customer base.

    It all depends on what Cryptic's plans are for the KDF. Do they want to make a content rich Klingon faction or do they want to essentially make this "Starfleet Online with a dash of Klingon too"?
    Roach wrote: »
    That is wrong and such an outlook only hurts the game as a whole as new and old players quickly learn that the have no options for enjoyable gameplay outside of the federation and give up thier alts due to stagnant alternatice gameplay.

    Could not have said it better.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2011

    "Could have been" is a very tricky slope. I believe Cryptic did their best with the limited (!) budget they had. It wasn't like WoW, where Blizzard could draw from their own franchise, pouring virtually unlimited resources into the game. That's point one.

    Point two: It is what it is now, the proverbial milk is already spilled. So what now? How would adding KDF missions benefit the 88 or so percent of players? By forcing them to reroll to play new missions? I played Horde for some time. I know I'd feel TRIBBLE if there was Alliance epic whine on the forums and based on several vocal individuals, Alliance would get exclusive content with "Want it? Reroll Alliance" comment from the devs. What would I do? I'd unsubscribe. Simple as that.

    I agree they have done well with a limited budget. But saying they have only got a limited budget and they have done well with what they have only goes so far. They want the same monthly sub as games with much larger budgets and with the cash store often want players to pay extra to get additional features. They either can't compete with the big companies out there and go free to play or have to offer a product that can compete. What they can't do is cater to the people that are playing and fail to attract players that aren't interest in the Federation side. Do we really need more uniform packs this month probably not but someone at Cryptic is determined to churn them out to get more money from the fed players. Rather than a second viable options we get costume packs for fed only players.

    The second point isn't really viable as the hoard and the Alliance both had full game play experience. Where as the KDF is a horrible experience leading to very few hard core rubber batleth wielding fans to be the only ones willing to go down that route. What this sadly does is make for a lack of PvP outside of mini games, imagine open world PvP where you can take over parts of the neutral zone. Sadly this would be a waste as the KDF could never mount a sucessful force to take any of it as they just don't have the players. And they don't have the players cause the experience is so poor.

    Now I don't particularly like the idea of Klingons in the Star Trek Universe. I found them to be very one dimensional so I can see why any additional content for them might be boring for some people. The stories always seem to revolve around shouting, honour, barbaric violence over some slight slur and chest pounding. But that doesn't mean I don't think that the KDF is in the state it should be and I don't think Cryptic has done enough in the last year to make them a viable faction. Not to worry though, cause we will be seeing a new ship and a TOS bundle added for Federation players cause they really need more stuff.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    There was actually a survey on this, I have read it about 2 years back.
    I am not defending general Cryptic policy here, god knows I think some of their decisions, such as mission "remasters", or lately the tractor mines, are odd. And I agree - if Cryptic, instead of putting together a few featured episodes, focused on improving the UI and giving some sort of way, that would allow everyone to matter (say, territory control), would be better. "What to do" for everybody, not just klinks.

    I just have the feeling that this isn't about "we want more to do in the game", but "we want the same as the feds".

    Here's my opinion on the matter... There is absolutely a market out there for a fleshed out Klingon faction. Feel free to look back in the archives of when the game was still in development. There were plenty of fleets based round the idea of playing Klingons that had no involvement with PvP whatsoever. Unfortunately Cryptic ran out of development time, when they made the decision to make Klingons a PvP only faction and announced this, the vast majority of these potential customers left before the game was even released.

    In my opinion, for right now, this very moment, there is absolutely no way that Cryptic can get those players back to the game, no matter how much they flesh the faction out....
    BUT

    Cryptic should (and with the announcement of them working on a klingon tutorial, I think they are) be looking forward to a very possible future... and that future being f2p. If they are able to relaunch the game as f2p, with a Klingon faction where you are able to level to max on PvE content (with the minimum of grinding exploration missions etc) then they have the chance to appeal to these players they initially lost before the game's release.

    In the short term, spending resources on the Klingon faction may seem like a waste to some, but in the long term, with f2p being likely in the future, using those resources will massively pay off for the game, for the playerbase, and for Cryptic themselves.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    As most people know, Klingons need more PvE content. However, as the Devs have stated before, they cant simply stop working on the Feds and just work on the Klingons. So how about they kill 2 birds with 1 stone and make the next FE series Klingon based, like a Gorn civil war? That gives Klingons more faction based PvE(that can be played at any level) and also provides content everyone can play since its a FE. Isnt this an obvious win/win?

    A Gorn centered series would be cool.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    In my opinion, for right now, this very moment, there is absolutely no way that Cryptic can get those players back to the game, no matter how much they flesh the faction out....

    whilst its hard to make a generalised statements i think the lure of star trek is too strong. we are not fans because we kind of, sort of, dont mind star trek. we are fans because we love it. announce a fully formed klingon faction and i bet you would see a very large chunk of those people back in a heartbeat.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    So, if the KDF has some best missions out there and quality > quantity, why the hell do they complain at all? :D

    If you read the second sentence of my post that you quoted, you will have the answer to your question.
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