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Hey Devs, kill 2 birds with 1 stone and make the next FE series Klingon based

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  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    For a lot of klingon players (myself included) this wont really address the issue as they(/we) want specific content that is klingon-only in order to validate the faction as unique and worthwhile as opposed to Fed-lite with mirrored content. Folks want there to be specific reasons to play KDF, stuff you can't get on the other side of the fence.

    In a perfect world that would be great, but in a perfect world STO wouldnt have launched in the state it did either, so we obviously arent living in that world. However, I think a Klingon focused featured series is at least a realistic possibility in the imperfect world we are living in.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    In a perfect world that would be great, but in a perfect world STO wouldnt have launched in the state it did either, so we obviously arent living in that world. However, I think a Klingon focused featured series is at least a realistic possibility in the imperfect world we are living in.

    I think we can still expect klingon-specific content. In fact, some more stuff is supposedly in the pipes for Season 4. And the remastered episodes have shown that Cryptic is willing to still do faction-specific things. It's just a matter of when the individual developers have the time. Time, of course, should become a less scarce commodity as more systems that launched flawed are finalized into something presentable ('cause although Cryptic has had to readdress several aspects of the game, you only need to do something once if you've bothered to do it right).
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    I think we can still expect klingon-specific content. In fact, some more stuff is supposedly in the pipes for Season 4. And the remastered episodes have shown that Cryptic is willing to still do faction-specific things. It's just a matter of when the individual developers have the time. Time, of course, should become a less scarce commodity as more systems that launched flawed are finalized into something presentable ('cause although Cryptic has had to readdress several aspects of the game, you only need to do something once if you've bothered to do it right).

    Well, the remastered episodes were Federation specific as well, at least I thought they were unless Stranded in Space somehow transferred over to the KDF side.

    I can only hope more KDF stuff comes, I want to know why the Hur'Q were using Klingon mythology against them plz.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    As most people know, Klingons need more PvE content. However, as the Devs have stated before, they cant simply stop working on the Feds and just work on the Klingons. So how about they kill 2 birds with 1 stone and make the next FE series Klingon based, like a Gorn civil war? That gives Klingons more faction based PvE(that can be played at any level) and also provides content everyone can play since its a FE. Isnt this an obvious win/win?

    You are worth a days worth of Dabo. Great idea!
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    Ashki wrote:
    Well, the remastered episodes were Federation specific as well, at least I thought they were unless Stranded in Space somehow transferred over to the KDF side.

    According to Dstahl they had been planning to remaster the old Fed episodes for the KDF, but basically discovered they'd have to rewrite them entirely so they'd make sense. This is apparently part of the reason why we can apparently expect KDF PvE content in Season 4.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    According to Dstahl they had been planning to remaster the old Fed episodes for the KDF, but basically discovered they'd have to rewrite them entirely so they'd make sense. This is apparently part of the reason why we can apparently expect KDF PvE content in Season 4.

    I do hope so, more PvE would be great for my KDF side LP.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    According to Dstahl they had been planning to remaster the old Fed episodes for the KDF, but basically discovered they'd have to rewrite them entirely so they'd make sense. This is apparently part of the reason why we can apparently expect KDF PvE content in Season 4.

    Just for the record, the only "new" KDF PvE that has been confirmed for Season 4 is a tutorial. Aside from that, they only said they would be "reworking" the existing PvE and looking to see where additional PvE might be needed. However, they did not actually say that additional content would be added in Season 4.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    Just for the record, the only "new" KDF PvE that has been confirmed for Season 4 is a tutorial. Aside from that, they only said they would be "reworking" the existing PvE and looking to see where additional PvE might be needed. However, they did not actually say that additional content would be added in Season 4.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8RbAoylDWEM&playnext=1&list=PL12B1507F0F1D1249
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    I am starting to like Dstahl more and more :D For being 12 percent (my estimate was 5 more the like, judging from pvp queues and such), the klinks make awful lot of noise.

    But yes, as usually the Nagus has a good idea. Still - won't happen, because some Dev wrote somewhere that next FE's will include DS9, which means they already have the story written down and it most likely doesn't include Klingon arcs. Oh well... maybe next time...
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    I am starting to like Dstahl more and more :D For being 12 percent (my estimate was 5 more the like, judging from pvp queues and such), the klinks make awful lot of noise.

    But yes, as usually the Nagus has a good idea. Still - won't happen, because some Dev wrote somewhere that next FE's will include DS9, which means they already have the story written down and it most likely doesn't include Klingon arcs. Oh well... maybe next time...

    Um, are KDF players even allowed to enter that area?
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    I am starting to like Dstahl more and more :D For being 12 percent (my estimate was 5 more the like, judging from pvp queues and such), the klinks make awful lot of noise.

    But yes, as usually the Nagus has a good idea. Still - won't happen, because some Dev wrote somewhere that next FE's will include DS9, which means they already have the story written down and it most likely doesn't include Klingon arcs. Oh well... maybe next time...

    Minor correction: they have mentioned that a future FE series may include a visit to DS9, but have not said it would be the next one. Also, the Devs have made a guarantee that both factions will be able to play all FEs, so they cannot take place anywhere that both factions cannot go. Whether that means they will allow Klingons to go to DS9 or they will send Klingons somewhere else as part of the same mission remains to be seen.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    Just for the record, the only "new" KDF PvE that has been confirmed for Season 4 is a tutorial. Aside from that, they only said they would be "reworking" the existing PvE and looking to see where additional PvE might be needed. However, they did not actually say that additional content would be added in Season 4.

    That would be the only thing that has been specifically "promised" however the creation of new KDF-specific content to make up for the inability to effectively remaster the old Fed missions into faction-agnostic ones has been stated.
    dstahl wrote: »
    Hey Staran :)

    Wanted to give a heads up about one of your questions. We did talk about remastering episodes so that they could be faction neutral, however in looking at many of our episodes, there were too many cases where the story was going to require a complete rewrite of the episode for the KDF. So instead of spending time trying to shoe-horn the KDF into those episodes we made two decisions. One - remastered episodes will leave the episodes faction requirement intact. Two - instead of trying to remake fed episodes into kdf episodes - we're going to take that time and make more kdf specific content instead.

    Realize that we do change our minds and that the engineering report (where a lot of this info comes from) is my forward looking schedule of what we're working on next... but it is subject to constant change. I will continue to update it and keep it as accurate as possible, but it does and will change as issues or concerns pop up.

    Source

    Considering that the creation of new content was being suggested as an alternative to remastering the old Fed episodes, one would be very hard pressed to suggest that a tutorial alone would be sufficient "kdf specific content" to balance that.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    Ashki wrote:
    Um, are KDF players even allowed to enter that area?

    Not yet. ;)
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    Not yet. ;)

    Well, if a FE does feature DS9, then it'd be much imperative that they fix that, otherwise the KDF players will be SOL.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    That would be the only thing that has been specifically "promised" however the creation of new KDF-specific content to make up for the inability to effectively remaster the old Fed missions into faction-agnostic ones has been stated.


    Considering that the creation of new content was being suggested as an alternative to remastering the old Fed episodes, one would be very hard pressed to suggest that a tutorial alone would be sufficient "kdf specific content" to balance that.

    Yep, I'm aware of that. However, that quote does not state that that new content will be included in Season 4. I'm just pointing this out for the sake of accuracy, so if it indeed does not happen no one can claim that they ever said it would.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    Minor correction: they have mentioned that a future FE series may include a visit to DS9, but have not said it would be the next one. Also, the Devs have made a guarantee that both factions will be able to play all FEs, so they cannot take place anywhere that both factions cannot go. Whether that means they will allow Klingons to go to DS9 or they will send Klingons somewhere else as part of the same mission remains to be seen.

    Fair enough. I thought it was someone saying it WILL be the next one (would make sense, I am fed up with Romulans up to my neck). Ah well.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    A number of reasons, but mostly because of dstahl's childish rant about how we're a mere 12% of the player base, and he's "tired of hearing us constantly complaining about Klingons being ignored." And oh yeah throw in a little bit of his "if you don't like how I'm driving you can jump outta da car boy."

    As if being only 12% of the player base somehow makes it ok that they're going to deliberately break their word to their paying customers ("Two factions. Full PvE content.") I realize that nowdays it's only ignorant hicks like myself that get upset when people deliberately lie to me, but that's just how I am.

    They'll never make a Featured Episode that's Klingon based, and you know it.

    I haven't seen this quote but its sort of backwards logic.

    The reason that there are only 12% of Klingon players is because the faction is so poor its a repeative grind and few people are happy to pay each month for what is on offer.

    It sadly does explain why the C-Store is full of uniform packs and Federation vessels, little to nothing is being done to make the KDF a viable faction and it seems clear that there is little chance that it ever will be because only 12% of players play Klingons.

    It also means that should a Romulan or Cardassian faction be added they are likley to be very poor and when poorly recieved any additional content for them will be written off as not worth doing as not enough people are playing these factions. Rather than a result of the poor implamentation and little to encourage people to play them.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    Costello wrote: »
    I haven't seen this quote but its sort of backwards logic.

    The reason that there are only 12% of Klingon players is because the faction is so poor its a repeative grind and few people are happy to pay each month for what is on offer.

    It sadly does explain why the C-Store is full of uniform packs and Federation vessels, little to nothing is being done to make the KDF a viable faction and it seems clear that there is little chance that it ever will be because only 12% of players play Klingons.

    It also means that should a Romulan or Cardassian faction be added they are likley to be very poor and when poorly recieved any additional content for them will be written off as not worth doing as not enough people are playing these factions. Rather than a result of the poor implamentation and little to encourage people to play them.

    When we pass the argument that both factions should have been equal from the start: tell me - how does developing content exclusive for 12 percent of players fit into businessplan of a company? I mean - it's a huge chunk of work, look how long it took Cryptic to make 5 missions...
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    i think the future FEs will be in space the klinks cant go atm, as an excuse to open them up.

    but befor we get a klingon faction FE we still have to get through, tholions and DS9 at least, maybe v'ger from dstahl hints (just to point out i h8 this idea, v'ger is done with, it no longer cares about lifeforms. let it be happy)

    so thats 2012 as the earlyist for a FE in the empire, and who knows they may even look at their own polls and add a maquis FE. and as a force that both sides would fight the orion syndicate or the nausicans are a better bet. just because i think the gorn would find fed allies, and the story would break into "look just do it already, its a game"

    but i did have an idea for a foundry mission train involving gorn, timetravel and gangsters, but it requires putting a gorn in a suit, finding a trilby and preferably tommy gun skins for weapons
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    When we pass the argument that both factions should have been equal from the start: tell me - how does developing content exclusive for 12 percent of players fit into businessplan of a company? I mean - it's a huge chunk of work, look how long it took Cryptic to make 5 missions...

    That is a flawed question because if the game had launched with equal content for both factions then that % would be different. I'm not saying it would be an even split, because the fact that Star Trek is about the Feds means there will always be more people that want to play Fed than anything else.

    However, its pretty obvious that there would be more people playing KDF if they had launched with more content. The majority of players in most MMOs are mainly PvErs, so if a non-ST fan decides to try STO and sees that 1 faction has very little PvE content, then he's most likely going to pick the other one.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    This is why we really need the Foundry up and running.

    I like the idea of a Klingon Empire themed FE. But then I like all kinds of ideas for FE's and they're only going to be able to do so many a year. The Foundry will support a lot more stories and missions.

    However, I would like to point out that I distinctly saw what looked like a KDF symbol on the other side of a couple of those Iconian gates and unless it is a mistake I would say that foreshadows some attention on the Klingon state of affairs.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    That is a flawed question because if the game had launched with equal content for both factions then that % would be different. I'm not saying it would be an even split, because the fact that Star Trek is about the Feds means there will always be more people that want to play Fed than anything else.

    However, its pretty obvious that there would be more people playing KDF if they had launched with more content. The majority of players in most MMOs are mainly PvErs, so if a non-ST fan decides to try STO and sees that 1 faction has very little PvE content, then he's most likely going to pick the other one.

    If wishes were horses...

    It's what it is with KDF and you can't change the past. The fact that 88 percent of people play Federation and invested time into their toons, making them not very likely to switch to KDF all of a sudden, does mean that making content for 12 percent of population WILL make 88 percent of people quite angry.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    Yep, I'm aware of that. However, that quote does not state that that new content will be included in Season 4. I'm just pointing this out for the sake of accuracy, so if it indeed does not happen no one can claim that they ever said it would.

    Didn't mean to suggest that Season 4 would be when the more substantial content drops. Merely said that what has been stated seems to suggest that more substantial content is on the way.

    I did link the KDF content that is coming in Season 4 with the remastered episodes quite simply because Dstahl himself has in a few threads about the remasters when people bring up KDF content. For instance...
    dstahl wrote: »
    Great suggestions. As others have pointed out - we are trying to focus on fixing up some of our older content to bring it more in line with our newer made episodes. So with that in mind...I've already written down a few suggestions for the Fed side:
    • (Imaga) Doomsday Machine Episode
    • Past Imperfect / City on the Edge of Never (man do I want to hear B'vat speak!)
    • (Kassae) Researcher Rescue (featuring many badass looking Gorn!)
    • (Regulus) - Miral Paris ftw

    The KDF is getting pretty much a big overhaul of early content - so most of that will be different than remastered episodes - although I really want to go back and fix up a few of their episodes as well (at least the ones that take place on Qo'noS when we update the Qo'noS interior)

    Source

    I imagine that if the concept of remastered Fed episodes for the KDF had worked out we wouldn't be seeing a KDF tutorial and tweaking of early missions being fast-tracked.
    Costello wrote: »
    The reason that there are only 12% of Klingon players is because the faction is so poor its a repeative grind and few people are happy to pay each month for what is on offer.

    Partially yes.

    There has actually been some research into this sort of thing though and generally speaking the majority will almost always play the "good" path in any particular game. The average seems to be less than 10% of people will actually bother to play "evil" (though the percentage is notably higher among adolescents).

    So a part of what could help the situation is not just content but making the klingons less... uh, "black haty." While the Empire is primarily composed of brutal warriors (and they are sort of jerky) it might be nice if they were given a bit more justification for warring against the Federation within the game.

    It's not like the Feds aren't fighting the Undine, they just aren't conquering and enslaving whole species. In fact we've seen more of the Fed/Undine fighting than we have KDF/Undine. So having the reason for the split being that the KDF got sore and felt the Feds were being too light on an impending threat seems... far fetched.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    That would be the only thing that has been specifically "promised" however the creation of new KDF-specific content to make up for the inability to effectively remaster the old Fed missions into faction-agnostic ones has been stated.



    Considering that the creation of new content was being suggested as an alternative to remastering the old Fed episodes, one would be very hard pressed to suggest that a tutorial alone would be sufficient "kdf specific content" to balance that.

    you would think. But usually cryptic would say that with season 4 release, there will be klingon like diplomacy and klingon mission for example. But they didn't say that.
    Read the tenses in dstahls comments, they haven't started.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    Partially yes.

    There has actually been some research into this sort of thing though and generally speaking the majority will almost always play the "good" path in any particular game. The average seems to be less than 10% of people will actually bother to play "evil" (though the percentage is notably higher among adolescents).

    So a part of what could help the situation is not just content but making the klingons less... uh, "black haty." While the Empire is primarily composed of brutal warriors (and they are sort of jerky) it might be nice if they were given a bit more justification for warring against the Federation within the game.

    It's not like the Feds aren't fighting the Undine, they just aren't conquering and enslaving whole species. In fact we've seen more of the Fed/Undine fighting than we have KDF/Undine. So having the reason for the split being that the KDF got sore and felt the Feds were being too light on an impending threat seems... far fetched.

    I wouldn't have minded this to much if one of the species I wanted to play badly was on the KDF side being conquered by them, no wonder the Gorn will save the other Gorn over the Klingons.

    Thankfully, hopefully the XO Duty thing will fix that, I can only hope.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    If wishes were horses...

    It's what it is with KDF and you can't change the past. The fact that 88 percent of people play Federation and invested time into their toons, making them not very likely to switch to KDF all of a sudden, does mean that making content for 12 percent of population WILL make 88 percent of people quite angry.

    Thats only if you never play on new people coming into the game. But according to Cryptic, the game is growing. So if that is the case, then by adding more content to the Klingons that will make a difference in how those new people fit into the percentages we are discussing.

    All of that said, I think the Foundry is going to make a real difference in these percentages as well. Some people may not be aware of this, but Foundry missions are generally faction specific. That means if you want to play the KDF Foundry missions, you'll actually have to create a KDF character. I think alot of new KDF characters will be created to play Foundry missions, and that is going to change those percentages.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    Thats only if you never play on new people coming into the game. But according to Cryptic, the game is growing. So if that is the case, then by adding more content to the Klingons that will make a difference in how those new people fit into the percentages we are discussing.

    All of that said, I think the Foundry is going to make a real difference in these percentages as well. Some people may not be aware of this, but Foundry missions are generally faction specific. That means if you want to play the KDF Foundry missions, you'll actually have to create a KDF character. I think alot of new KDF characters will be created to play Foundry missions, and that is going to change those percentages.

    And again, as I mentioned, despite it being specific, it's still no replacement for Cryptic made missions, though I've said that way to much already.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    once the foundry is up and running then would be a really good time to try and crank out some kingon pve.

    i like the idea of the next featured episode or two having a more klingon feel.

    i also like the idea of having featured episodes have slightly different stories so that they play out differently if you play a klink or fed.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    Ashki wrote:
    And again, as I mentioned, despite it being specific, it's still no replacement for Cryptic made missions, though I've said that way to much already.

    Oh, I agree completely. However, if my guesses(as described in my previous post) are true, it will still change those percentages, and that will make the KDF a bigger development priority for official content. Once people dive in the Foundry and see how awesome the missions that people are making are, alot of them will say "hmm, I wonder what kind of missions there are for Klingons" and create characters to try them out.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    Any particular reason you think so?

    Well actually it has been confirmed (Pretty sure, I'll see if I can find the post) That they will be releasing the Gorn updates in a Gorn centered Series. So actually, it IS coming.
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