Ummm that is so entirely not true.
Ships do not get dated after a couple of years, and the prometheus is an entirely different type of ship compared to the sovereign. :rolleyes:
Correct. The Sovereign was designed to combat the Borg threat, the Prometheus, really, is just a 'special' ship as it was only in one episode.
sorry its true look up the ship history. mvam made the ship a borg killer far more effectiv then the sov. it was part of the same line of borg killer ships thow and deved at that same time as the sov. but it was going to be more the mass produced ship and being this games based like 20 years after it was due to go in serivice they should be common now.
it was also supposed to be the ship used in the next tv sserise before cbs decided to TRIBBLE all over the serise for years with enterprise and relly bad movies.
Dude stop spreading nonsense.
There's no truth to any of that, the Prometheus was designed as a response to the Dominion War, not the Borg threat.
And actually, the Sovereign was not built to combat the Borg, the Defiant was.
The Sovereign or the Enterprise E was simply just the flagship of the fleet, incorporating all the most advanced technology at the time into her design.
Background info such as the Official cut-away poster calls her an Explorer, Type 2.
sorry its true look up the ship history. mvam made the ship a borg killer far more effectiv then the sov. it was part of the same line of borg killer ships thow and deved at that same time as the sov. but it was going to be more the mass produced ship and being this games based like 20 years after it was due to go in serivice they should be common now.
it was also supposed to be the ship used in the next tv sserise before cbs decided to TRIBBLE all over the serise for years with enterprise and relly bad movies.
Feel free to provide your proof of these claims my friend. Please ensure that it's actual canon proof (on screen information, interviews with the series producers etc) and not fanon based.
thers the specks. the thing had borg shiling aka regen and ablativ armor from endgame i forgot abought those. solvren was a toy compared to this ship. of course thats the bad thing abought games. they dont always go with the real story being these ships in game are down played as escort ship and not cruser class ship killers even thow they are.
this was also the ship they where going to attempt to send to the voyager crew to replace the outdated and worn out intriped. being it could fly and fight soly on the computer. of course the voyager crew found there way home long before that idea came to pass.
thers the specks. the thing had borg shiling aka regen and ablativ armor from endgame i forgot abought those. solvren was a toy compared to this ship. of course thats the bad thing abought games. they dont always go with the real story being these ships in game are down played as escort ship and not cruser class ship killers even thow they are.
Wikipedia, so reliable, and the article is loaded with non-canon junk.
Difference between a Prometheus and a Sovereign is that the Prometheus is a small "warship" while the Sovereign is so much more, and so much more powerful and heavily armed than the prometheus.
thers the specks. the thing had borg shiling aka regen and ablativ armor from endgame i forgot abought those. solvren was a toy compared to this ship.
I do love it when people man up their favourite ship to being the most awesome in starfleet.
First, I would recommend using Memory Alpha as your source of info. The Normal Wiki page is fine for quick reference, but it's easily edited and soft canon (or outright fanon) material can sometimes end up getting incorporated into the articles. Memory Alpha is much more rigorously controlled and kept as close to on screen canon as possible. I'd say that it's accurate 95% of the time.
Here's a few links for you to have a good read through.
and that link shows what Admiral Janeway brought back from the future, a piece of tech based of Ablative Hull armour tech, but absolutely not what was found on board the Prometheus.
There really isn't enough on screen information provided about both ships to do a direct comparison, you do have a partial point because the Prommie is a newer ship and outfitted with a lot of experimental tech. But nowhere on Memory Alpha claims that it is more powerful than a Sovereign, nor that it's a ship that was designed to be Anti-Borg, and especially nowhere is it claimed that the Prometheus class was going to be the ship design for the next series after Voyager.
honestly. it makes perfect sence to me to have a constitution class ship refitted and called a destroyer or frigate or escort rather than the battlecruiser
I am sorry to say that, but this argument is not not applicable, because Starfleet did not abandon the concept of cruiser ships with the constitution.
Starfleet did develop mainly cruiser class ships over the last two hundred years and still does on the contrary to the US Navy, which prefers other ship classes than the one Iowa is.
My point is that your argument was only applicable if the constitution where one of the last cruiser ships and Starfleet did not build others after it, so there would be some need to get some firepower this class could supply into battle, but this is not the case at all.
Thank you for reading.
Please go back and review what this comment was in regards to, this was not about the Connie. You can even reread my post and see what I said at the bottom. BTW I'm not asking for an old ship to be brought out of mothballs, I'm asking for a new ship with the looks of a Connie.
I'll just quote it for you. "Either way, none of this matters cause the T5 Connie will be a brand new ship."
I will again bring up my argument regarding a T5 Connie. The D'kyr and Marauder are both a 100 years older than the Connie and both are T5. Why no anti threads on them? Look how many people fly them!
Look what Cryptic has to say about the D'kyr
"This Vulcan starship has been in continual use since the 22nd century, although the Vulcans have continually upgraded its technology. First used as a combat cruiser by the Vulcan High Command, later versions of the D'Kyr were used for planetary defense, scientific exploration and rescue missions. Now the Vulcan government has agreed to share the designs for the D'Kyr with Starfleet."
Now look at what Cryptic did for the Connie.
"Updating the iconic profile of the Constitution class, the Excalibur is the first of a group of new, state-of-the-art cruisers intended to fill a variety of roles for Starfleet.
Designed with the modular construction favored by the Starfleet Corps of Engineers, the Excalibur can tackle almost any task. Its expanded cargo capacity and advanced warp core make it an ideal solo exploration vessel, but it also performs well as a support ship during fleet actions." (this implies a new ship, so why can't it have a T5 version with a TOS skin?)
*added*
The KDF have a T5 version of a T1 ship! No one is asking for the Connie to be super-duper-awesome-cherry-blossom-uber-tank that will out tank the best cruisers Starfleet has to offer. Give it 30k hull and a T5 BO layout. The fact that people use canon to argue tiers is flawed!
I do love it when people man up their favourite ship to being the most awesome in starfleet.
First, I would recommend using Memory Alpha as your source of info. The Normal Wiki page is fine for quick reference, but it's easily edited and soft canon (or outright fanon) material can sometimes end up getting incorporated into the articles. Memory Alpha is much more rigorously controlled and kept as close to on screen canon as possible. I'd say that it's accurate 95% of the time.
Here's a few links for you to have a good read through.
and that link shows what Admiral Janeway brought back from the future, a piece of tech based of Ablative Hull armour tech, but absolutely not what was found on board the Prometheus.
There really isn't enough on screen information provided about both ships to do a direct comparison, you do have a partial point because the Prommie is a new ship and outfitted with a lot of experimental tech. But nowhere on Memory Alpha claims that it is more powerful than a Sovereign, nor that it's a ship that was designed to be Anti-Borg, and especially nowhere is it claimed that the Prometheus class was going to be the ship design for the next series after Voyager.
hah, in case, for Luther he's fraked and way way wrong. Sovereign Class is bigger, powerful and can certainly be classfied as Borg Killer. why? because it has Stronger Shields, Powerful Beam Arrays and Warp Factor of 9, can withstand up to Three Ships or 5 include esp. Scimitar. here's no way a Borg Ships could handle Sovereign Ships lol.
hah, in case, for Luther he's fraked and way way wrong. Sovereign Class is bigger, powerful and can certainly be classfied as Borg Killer. why? because it has Stronger Shields, Powerful Beam Arrays and Warp Factor of 9, can withstand up to Three Ships or 5 include esp. Scimitar. here's no way a Borg Ships could handle Sovereign Ships lol.
hah, in case, for Luther he's fraked and way way wrong. Sovereign Class is bigger, powerful and can certainly be classfied as Borg Killer. why? because it has Stronger Shields, Powerful Beam Arrays and Warp Factor of 9, can withstand up to Three Ships or 5 include esp. Scimitar. here's no way a Borg Ships could handle Sovereign Ships lol.
Unfortunately, you're now doing the same thing as Luther. On screen evidence contradicts everything you said.
The only time we have seen the Sovereign class go up against a Borg cube was in First Contact, where the cube was defeated by a fleet of ships, not just the Enterprise E (granted, Picard did supply the information needed to defeat the cube, but that's a reflection on the captain and the inside knowledge he had from his telepathic connection to the borg collective, rather than the quality of the ship).
When it comes to Nemesis and the Scimitar, we are told very early in the film that the Sovereign Class Enterprise E is completely outclassed, The Scimitar is bigger, more heavily shielded, out guns it and to top all of that off, it has a perfect cloaking device that has no emissions to track and can stay invisible even while firing weapons.
Once again, the Scimitar is defeated because of the two Captains, not the quality of the ships they're using. Shinzon is overconfident and he doesn't want to kill Picard thanks to needing his blood to survive, and a healthy amount of ego, needing to prove himself to be the superior being. Picard, being the better captain (and the hero of the story, lets not forget that ) is able to use both these failings of Shinzon to pull a victory out of what should have been a defeat.
Please go back and review what this comment was in regards to, this was not about the Connie. You can even reread my post and see what I said at the bottom. BTW I'm not asking for an old ship to be brought out of mothballs, I'm asking for a new ship with the looks of a Connie.
I'll just quote it for you. "Either way, none of this matters cause the T5 Connie will be a brand new ship." *added*
The KDF have a T5 version of a T1 ship! No one is asking for the Connie to be super-duper-awesome-cherry-blossom-uber-tank that will out tank the best cruisers Starfleet has to offer. Give it 30k hull and a T5 BO layout. The fact that people use canon to argue tiers is flawed!
So why design new ships at all, lets just use 200 year old designs. I really don't understand why players always ask to get those old buckets.
I just hope when someday cryptic has introduced a T5 Constitution, Ambassador and Oberth, they will finally bring us NEW 25th century ships.
So why design new ships at all, lets just use 200 year old designs. I really don't understand why players always ask to get those old buckets.
I just hope when someday cryptic has introduced a T5 Constitution, Ambassador and Oberth, they will finally bring us NEW 25th century ships.
Thank you for reading.
Some people (like myself) want to fly the ship they grew up loving or at least saw in the shows. I totally agree with you about making new 25th century ships. We need more, a heck of a lot more!
Some people (like myself) want to fly the ship they grew up loving or at least saw in the shows. I totally agree with you about making new 25th century ships. We need more, a heck of a lot more!
Yes, especially on a certain faction of the game...lol... wink wink nudge nudge
Some people (like myself) want to fly the ship they grew up loving or at least saw in the shows. I totally agree with you about making new 25th century ships. We need more, a heck of a lot more!
I think that most people agree with this, just that they want their fav starship in first.
Personally, I'd prefer that we waited to see what Cryptic comes up with regarding the ship crafting/upgrade system before we really start discussing the connie in higher tiers... but if we must discuss it now, here's my suggestion for making a t5 connie...
Science ship hull and shield stats
Cruiser weapon layout and power buffs
BO layout similar to the Gal-R
Special skill, a shield/hull heal and damage resist buff on par with Miracle Worker.
I know I'm probably gonna get a lot of hate for saying this but why are people bringing up such a dead topic?
1) People have been asking for this for like the past year and nothing has come
2) The most recent news was it was either on hold or canceled as of October
If it hasn't come by now, I doubt it's coming.
If it does though, i'd be fine if it had say a low crew, not as many weapons, and not a whole ton of HP.
No hate, I see your point and think it's very valid. I think that's why we see so many posts, people really want it.
I see this layout to be okay.
Hull: 30,000
Crew: 400
Turn: 11
Weapon: 3/3
BO Layout:
Cm. Sci.
LtCm. Tac.
Lt. Tac.
Lt. Eng.
En. Uni.
Special Ability:
1. Can equip Dual Beam Banks front and rear. Any phaser beam you equip turns blue colored.
2. Target Sub Systems
3. Tracking Torpedo to hunt for cloaked ships (3min cooldown, will take 1 ship out of cloak within 5k)
No hate, I see your point and think it's very valid. I think that's why we see so many posts, people really want it.
I see this layout to be okay.
Hull: 30,000
Crew: 400
Turn: 11
Weapon: 3/3
BO Layout:
Cm. Sci.
LtCm. Tac.
Lt. Tac.
Lt. Eng.
En. Uni.
Special Ability:
1. Can equip Dual Beam Banks front and rear. Any phaser beam you equip turns blue colored.
2. Target Sub Systems
3. Tracking Torpedo to hunt for cloaked ships (3min cooldown, will take 1 ship out of cloak within 5k)
I'm on my phone so I'll compare the specs later but I think its 3 special abilities are a little too much
I definitely think number 3 doesn't make much sense on the TOS Connie, that was the TMP Connie.
No hate, I see your point and think it's very valid. I think that's why we see so many posts, people really want it.
I see this layout to be okay.
Hull: 30,000
Crew: 400
Turn: 11
Weapon: 3/3
BO Layout:
Cm. Sci.
LtCm. Tac.
Lt. Tac.
Lt. Eng.
En. Uni.
Special Ability:
1. Can equip Dual Beam Banks front and rear. Any phaser beam you equip turns blue colored.
2. Target Sub Systems
3. Tracking Torpedo to hunt for cloaked ships (3min cooldown, will take 1 ship out of cloak within 5k)
I would like to point out I only see a couple of these threads every once in a while so I wouldn't say "a lot of people" want it.
II noticed yours seems to be a beefed up science ship with Tac officers?
These are the specs I'd agree too
Hull: 26,000
Crew: 400
Turn: 10
Weapon: 3/3
BO Layout:
Cm. Sci.
LtCm. Tac.
Lt. Sci.
Lt. Eng.
En. Eng.
Special Ability:
1. Can equip Dual Beam Banks front and rear. Any phaser beam you equip turns blue colored.
2. Target Sub Systems
Basically what I changed is bringing it more in line with the Intrepid (as they seem to have similar size and purpose), but given it a couple nicer options since it is part cruiser.
sorry say what lol, i was a design and maintenance engineer for years before i got ill, and i can say that in the field of materials testing and knowldege we do not make conservative or even guess what something can do, something is stress tested to the limits of destruction and we get an exact figure when using a specific batch of materials, this is why when something is made it is always quality tested and the variables are slim and they figures give a optimum value with a + or - value that is allowed with a specific material for its tolerences.
I guess I didn't get my point across. I meant conservative in that you don't design something to very close to the limits of the underlying materials or systems for normal usage. Or to put it another way, you over engineer things to a certain to account for peak conditions for some measure of peak. If you don't you'll have a building or bridge collapse unexpectedly, or have an Impulse Engine fly to pieces during Full Impulse.
Scotty knew full well how far the Impulse Engine systems could be pushed in extraordinary circumstances. He's had to put together flying pieces of scrap under adverse circumstances (e.g. USS Constellion in the TOS episode "The Doomsday Machine". ) When we wrote up the specs years later, he was conservative with his figures as he knew that you don't run your systems (or building materials) to their limit all of the time.
Well thanks everyone for making my first topic nine pages in such a short amount of time. I was only bringing up clear evidence that the Connie was scraped or retired. In no way did i intend to create another war on T5 connies. (I admit id like one but i dont expect it) Im happy with my T2 connie and T5 excelsior ( and i agree to sov should be somewhat better the my excelsior)
Comments
it was also supposed to be the ship used in the next tv sserise before cbs decided to TRIBBLE all over the serise for years with enterprise and relly bad movies.
There's no truth to any of that, the Prometheus was designed as a response to the Dominion War, not the Borg threat.
And actually, the Sovereign was not built to combat the Borg, the Defiant was.
The Sovereign or the Enterprise E was simply just the flagship of the fleet, incorporating all the most advanced technology at the time into her design.
Background info such as the Official cut-away poster calls her an Explorer, Type 2.
Feel free to provide your proof of these claims my friend. Please ensure that it's actual canon proof (on screen information, interviews with the series producers etc) and not fanon based.
thers the specks. the thing had borg shiling aka regen and ablativ armor from endgame i forgot abought those. solvren was a toy compared to this ship. of course thats the bad thing abought games. they dont always go with the real story being these ships in game are down played as escort ship and not cruser class ship killers even thow they are.
this was also the ship they where going to attempt to send to the voyager crew to replace the outdated and worn out intriped. being it could fly and fight soly on the computer. of course the voyager crew found there way home long before that idea came to pass.
Wikipedia, so reliable, and the article is loaded with non-canon junk.
Difference between a Prometheus and a Sovereign is that the Prometheus is a small "warship" while the Sovereign is so much more, and so much more powerful and heavily armed than the prometheus.
I do love it when people man up their favourite ship to being the most awesome in starfleet.
First, I would recommend using Memory Alpha as your source of info. The Normal Wiki page is fine for quick reference, but it's easily edited and soft canon (or outright fanon) material can sometimes end up getting incorporated into the articles. Memory Alpha is much more rigorously controlled and kept as close to on screen canon as possible. I'd say that it's accurate 95% of the time.
Here's a few links for you to have a good read through.
http://memory-alpha.org/wiki/Sovereign_class
http://memory-alpha.org/wiki/Prometheus_class
http://memory-alpha.org/wiki/Regenerative_shield
Also, you seem to be rather confused about what Ablative Hull Armour is
http://memory-alpha.org/wiki/Ablative_hull_armor
The Defiant had Ablative hull armour well before the Prometheus got it...
http://memory-alpha.org/wiki/Ablative_generator
and that link shows what Admiral Janeway brought back from the future, a piece of tech based of Ablative Hull armour tech, but absolutely not what was found on board the Prometheus.
There really isn't enough on screen information provided about both ships to do a direct comparison, you do have a partial point because the Prommie is a newer ship and outfitted with a lot of experimental tech. But nowhere on Memory Alpha claims that it is more powerful than a Sovereign, nor that it's a ship that was designed to be Anti-Borg, and especially nowhere is it claimed that the Prometheus class was going to be the ship design for the next series after Voyager.
Please go back and review what this comment was in regards to, this was not about the Connie. You can even reread my post and see what I said at the bottom. BTW I'm not asking for an old ship to be brought out of mothballs, I'm asking for a new ship with the looks of a Connie.
I'll just quote it for you.
"Either way, none of this matters cause the T5 Connie will be a brand new ship."
I will again bring up my argument regarding a T5 Connie. The D'kyr and Marauder are both a 100 years older than the Connie and both are T5. Why no anti threads on them? Look how many people fly them!
Look what Cryptic has to say about the D'kyr
"This Vulcan starship has been in continual use since the 22nd century, although the Vulcans have continually upgraded its technology. First used as a combat cruiser by the Vulcan High Command, later versions of the D'Kyr were used for planetary defense, scientific exploration and rescue missions. Now the Vulcan government has agreed to share the designs for the D'Kyr with Starfleet."
Now look at what Cryptic did for the Connie.
"Updating the iconic profile of the Constitution class, the Excalibur is the first of a group of new, state-of-the-art cruisers intended to fill a variety of roles for Starfleet.
Designed with the modular construction favored by the Starfleet Corps of Engineers, the Excalibur can tackle almost any task. Its expanded cargo capacity and advanced warp core make it an ideal solo exploration vessel, but it also performs well as a support ship during fleet actions." (this implies a new ship, so why can't it have a T5 version with a TOS skin?)
*added*
The KDF have a T5 version of a T1 ship! No one is asking for the Connie to be super-duper-awesome-cherry-blossom-uber-tank that will out tank the best cruisers Starfleet has to offer. Give it 30k hull and a T5 BO layout. The fact that people use canon to argue tiers is flawed!
hah, in case, for Luther he's fraked and way way wrong. Sovereign Class is bigger, powerful and can certainly be classfied as Borg Killer. why? because it has Stronger Shields, Powerful Beam Arrays and Warp Factor of 9, can withstand up to Three Ships or 5 include esp. Scimitar. here's no way a Borg Ships could handle Sovereign Ships lol.
Now your overrating the Sovereign. :rolleyes:
Unfortunately, you're now doing the same thing as Luther. On screen evidence contradicts everything you said.
The only time we have seen the Sovereign class go up against a Borg cube was in First Contact, where the cube was defeated by a fleet of ships, not just the Enterprise E (granted, Picard did supply the information needed to defeat the cube, but that's a reflection on the captain and the inside knowledge he had from his telepathic connection to the borg collective, rather than the quality of the ship).
When it comes to Nemesis and the Scimitar, we are told very early in the film that the Sovereign Class Enterprise E is completely outclassed, The Scimitar is bigger, more heavily shielded, out guns it and to top all of that off, it has a perfect cloaking device that has no emissions to track and can stay invisible even while firing weapons.
Once again, the Scimitar is defeated because of the two Captains, not the quality of the ships they're using. Shinzon is overconfident and he doesn't want to kill Picard thanks to needing his blood to survive, and a healthy amount of ego, needing to prove himself to be the superior being. Picard, being the better captain (and the hero of the story, lets not forget that
I just hope when someday cryptic has introduced a T5 Constitution, Ambassador and Oberth, they will finally bring us NEW 25th century ships.
Thank you for reading.
Some people (like myself) want to fly the ship they grew up loving or at least saw in the shows. I totally agree with you about making new 25th century ships. We need more, a heck of a lot more!
Yes, especially on a certain faction of the game...lol... wink wink nudge nudge
I think that most people agree with this, just that they want their fav starship in first.
Personally, I'd prefer that we waited to see what Cryptic comes up with regarding the ship crafting/upgrade system before we really start discussing the connie in higher tiers... but if we must discuss it now, here's my suggestion for making a t5 connie...
Science ship hull and shield stats
Cruiser weapon layout and power buffs
BO layout similar to the Gal-R
Special skill, a shield/hull heal and damage resist buff on par with Miracle Worker.
1) People have been asking for this for like the past year and nothing has come
2) The most recent news was it was either on hold or canceled as of October
If it hasn't come by now, I doubt it's coming.
If it does though, i'd be fine if it had say a low crew, not as many weapons, and not a whole ton of HP.
No hate, I see your point and think it's very valid. I think that's why we see so many posts, people really want it.
I see this layout to be okay.
Hull: 30,000
Crew: 400
Turn: 11
Weapon: 3/3
BO Layout:
Cm. Sci.
LtCm. Tac.
Lt. Tac.
Lt. Eng.
En. Uni.
Special Ability:
1. Can equip Dual Beam Banks front and rear. Any phaser beam you equip turns blue colored.
2. Target Sub Systems
3. Tracking Torpedo to hunt for cloaked ships (3min cooldown, will take 1 ship out of cloak within 5k)
I'm on my phone so I'll compare the specs later but I think its 3 special abilities are a little too much
I definitely think number 3 doesn't make much sense on the TOS Connie, that was the TMP Connie.
I'll check out the rest later.
I figured since people would (hopefully) have access to TOS, Refit and Excalibur ship skins it would be okay for the third one.
Maybe if it has TOS skin it will show blue phasers and refit would show red.
That's just evil! 8 beam broadside and then the ability to fire your HY3 torpedos. Evil man just evil. Which means I love the idea:D
I would like to point out I only see a couple of these threads every once in a while so I wouldn't say "a lot of people" want it.
II noticed yours seems to be a beefed up science ship with Tac officers?
These are the specs I'd agree too
Hull: 26,000
Crew: 400
Turn: 10
Weapon: 3/3
BO Layout:
Cm. Sci.
LtCm. Tac.
Lt. Sci.
Lt. Eng.
En. Eng.
Special Ability:
1. Can equip Dual Beam Banks front and rear. Any phaser beam you equip turns blue colored.
2. Target Sub Systems
Basically what I changed is bringing it more in line with the Intrepid (as they seem to have similar size and purpose), but given it a couple nicer options since it is part cruiser.
I would fly it in a heartbeat!
A ship with 3 special abilities is too advanced.
And I changed the hull to 26,000. Its just slightly worse than the Intrepid.
I still think that's fair. I guess being a sci ship it will still have Sensor Analysis.
I guess I didn't get my point across. I meant conservative in that you don't design something to very close to the limits of the underlying materials or systems for normal usage. Or to put it another way, you over engineer things to a certain to account for peak conditions for some measure of peak. If you don't you'll have a building or bridge collapse unexpectedly, or have an Impulse Engine fly to pieces during Full Impulse.
Scotty knew full well how far the Impulse Engine systems could be pushed in extraordinary circumstances. He's had to put together flying pieces of scrap under adverse circumstances (e.g. USS Constellion in the TOS episode "The Doomsday Machine". ) When we wrote up the specs years later, he was conservative with his figures as he knew that you don't run your systems (or building materials) to their limit all of the time.
I'd accept those specs because it would at least make some kind of sense.
I doubt its going to come and I'm more in favor of that.
You... your just a jerk... everyone else was nice... you choose to be a jerk... why...lol