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I just realized something disappointing...

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  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    I know where you're coming from, OP. I'm a longtime fan who stuck to the stock appearances as long as I could (and I wish there was an option for "no emblem", not even the UFP). It wasn't until I got up to the Sovereign that I finally snapped and put some color on the thing; something about this game's rendition of the Sovereign is just so flat and boring, I dunno. :(

    I had my Reman shields on for a little while, as a change of pace, but kept another set of shields handy to swap in - you can imagine my happiness when I found out I could just disable the visuals of the Reman set and have it both ways.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    dorko1 wrote: »
    Right, so you can't think outside the box in a way that says that in a time of war the Federation would use whatever military means necessary to assure that it wins the war, including and up to using Borg Technology, romulan technology and so on.

    I haven't said that at all. Are you arguing that the Federation is so scientifically inept and their member races so deficient that they cannot create their own advanced technology? Advanced technology that, I might add, was entered into canon in Voyager "Endgame" and TNG "All Good Things"?
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    nixboox wrote: »
    I haven't said that at all. Are you arguing that the Federation is so scientifically inept and their member races so deficient that they cannot create their own advanced technology? Advanced technology that, I might add, was entered into canon in Voyager "Endgame" and TNG "All Good Things"?

    Right, you're right. We should take away everyone else's right to modify their ship as they see fit. You're right. Your sole opinion is right. Cryptic, charge this man everybody else's subscription, because he's so right about this game, the money is on him.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    dorko1 wrote: »
    Couldn't the reverse be true on your side? You hear what you want to hear. You hear that you're right and everyone else is wrong. You somehow perceive that you opinion of how the rest of the game should look should over-ride every other person paying their 15 a month or more.

    This post has been edited to remove content which violates the [URL=" http://forums.startrekonline.com/announcement.php?f=70&a=2"]Cryptic Studios Forum Usage Guidelines[/URL] GMMeeko
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    unless you're watching Voyager - which is itself a point of contention for some. :D

    Well if people are saying that because Voyager had Borg parts strapped on it, they should be allowed to as well, they need to realize that Voyager was trapped in the Delta Quadrant, with nobody to help them reverse engineer the technology and no factory to build it. So they had Seven just attach the parts.

    I realize that they're arguing for canon as well, but I'm arguing for a broader form of canon (uniform technology), not a nit pick form of canon where we have to have every little thing that every ship had.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    Well if people are saying that because Voyager had Borg parts strapped on it, they should be allowed to as well, they need to realize that Voyager was trapped in the Delta Quadrant, with nobody to help them reverse engineer the technology and no factory to build it. So they had Seven just attach the parts.

    that's cool, but if you're in the middle of a war, you might do the same. God knows when you'll see a starbase next and if you do, the federation might have better things to do like build more ships and train more captains to get out there and fight.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    dorko1 wrote: »
    Right, you're right. We should take away everyone else's right to modify their ship as they see fit. You're right. Your sole opinion is right. Cryptic, charge this man everybody else's subscription, because he's so right about this game, the money is on him.

    Still haven't gotten it yet.

    I haven't been arguing about censorship at all, of course. You'd already know that if you'd been paying closer attention. Do try harder in the future.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    well i agree but there's not much to be done about this. some people just wanna make bright pink ships with flashing green signs and the most deformed crazed alien crew you can think of. its TRIBBLE... but thats just how it is.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    Add a toggle.

    ninboox has tastes that can't be objectively quantified. He wants loot sets that modify ship appearance to make them more Fed-like than the base Federation models.

    That's the challenge though because any change to the geo or lighting or texture scheme makes it un-fed-like.

    So, make it a toggle and eventually ninboox will see a piece of gear that modifies his/her ship in a way that pleases him/her.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    nixboox wrote: »
    Still haven't gotten it yet.

    I haven't been arguing about censorship at all, of course. You'd already know that if you'd been paying closer attention. Do try harder in the future.

    You're not arguing censorship, but you want other people's options that are currently available to be put on their ships to be taken away for the good of your vision of what the game should be like. Correct?
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    Add a toggle.

    ninboox has tastes that can't be objectively quantified. He wants loot sets that modify ship appearance to make them more Fed-like than the base Federation models.

    That's the challenge though because any change to the geo or lighting or texture scheme makes it un-fed-like.

    So, make it a toggle and eventually ninboox will see a piece of gear that modifies his/her ship in a way that pleases him/her.

    The only answer is "default". Its impossible to create a toggle that will do everything that all the various people who may want one actually want. However, since everyone picks a default uniform when creating a character and gets a basic TYPE of ship, then it should be possible for the game to display whatever the default version of their uniform or ship is to those who use the toggle.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    The OP is not, IMO, calling for censorship as much as he's wishing that more players had some taste.
    A doomed hope, of course, but I salute him for his bold idealism. Very much in the Star Trek spirit.

    EDIT:
    Okay, seriously. What I hear is not "CONFORM" but "I wish there was new top-quality loot that did not, by default, break the established Fed aesthetic." Because people are going to use whatever's best, even if it's hideously ugly, and most of them aren't going to bother to turn off the ugly (even if the option exists for them to do so) not because they prefer it but because they just don't care/can't be bothered.

    The OP wants the lazy option, that most people will take, to fit rather than break what little theme we have.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    Add a toggle.

    ninboox has tastes that can't be objectively quantified. He wants loot sets that modify ship appearance to make them more Fed-like than the base Federation models.

    That's the challenge though because any change to the geo or lighting or texture scheme makes it un-fed-like.

    So, make it a toggle and eventually ninboox will see a piece of gear that modifies his/her ship in a way that pleases him/her.

    no to mention that but also there are an equal number of fed players are cannon based to the core an rebel against ships going beyond the fed cannon so these components to would have to be optional to show or see, which just makes them nothing more then a costume set for federation only which would prob be pumped through c-store as a ship model and take up even more dev time on fed ships.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    dorko1 wrote: »
    that's cool, but if you're in the middle of a war, you might do the same. God knows when you'll see a starbase next and if you do, the federation might have better things to do like build more ships and train more captains to get out there and fight.

    If you think about it, player ships aren't directly involved in the war. We're not stuck on the frontlines 24/7 without any help. We just get sent to the frontlines every now and then. I might be ok with seeing front line NPC ships in war episodes having a sort of motley, half falling apart because it's been fixed in a rush several times look about them. Player ships are a sort of jack-of-all trades type that gets sent everywhere to deal with General purpose missions. We still have access to ESD and any reverse engineered technology that the Daystrom Institute and the Federation Corps of Engineers is working on.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    dorko1 wrote: »
    You're not arguing censorship, but you want other people's options that are currently available to be put on their ships to be taken away for the good of your vision of what the game should be like. Correct?

    Of course not. As I have stated from my first post...I want options that are competitive to the altering Borg/Reman/Tron stuff that is more Fed-like - for everyone. If you have a more Fed-like option to use that is of the same benefit or better than the others you'd likely use it...and so would others...and it would diminish the fact that everyone is flying around using Borg/Reman/Tron items because they're the best ones available. Are you following along now?
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    If you think about it, player ships aren't directly involved in the war. We're not stuck on the frontlines 24/7 without any help. We just get sent to the frontlines every now and then. I might be ok with seeing front line NPC ships in war episodes having a sort of motley, half falling apart because it's been fixed in a rush several times look about them. Player characters are a sort of jack-of-all trades that gets sent everywhere to deal with General purpose missions. We still have access to ESD and any reverse engineered technology that the Daystrom Institute and the Federation Corps of Engineers is working on.

    That's a point of view and entirely depends on whether or not you pvp
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    innocuous9 wrote:
    The uniforms are just as much of a stretch. The way these things work, or so I understand, is that Starfleet has what is known as a Uniform Standard. All officers and crew members are supposed to conform to it. "Hey, guys, we have new uniforms. Put 'em on, toss the old ones in the replicator."

    So, there you have it. My problem with your viewpoint, the one that says "I want to be different," is that in this game you are supposed to be working for an organization that would respond with the words, "Too bad."

    It's been explained in the games timeline.
    I don't know why people keep ignoring this much more constructive suggestion.

    Though, personally, I think the Aegis equipment is much closer to that goal already than the other two, I'd also like there to be future variants to look less tremendously contrary than the others.

    Agreed, though it won't take care of whats out there.......

    Now onto the "Toggle Worship",

    A simple toggle to adjust ships to look normal. What/whose normal? Is it by era (lots want that), A "canon" that can be agreed on?, does it take the patterns and colors away? etc

    Well, that's just a simple band aid that won't please many, because if the ships looks are breaking "Immersion" we'll need.
    1. Name toggle. Now we'll have to devote time and resources to setting up name filters and lists of acceptable ones to have them replaced with.
    2. Uniforms. Even though it's been explained in the time line, to make everyone happy we'll have to decide on standards and eras for those as well.
    3. Aliens. Too darn many fugly and dumb looking ones out there, now let's devote resources to deciding on a filter for them.
    4. Weapons. This can be included in the ship one, if a ship can't have borg gear it can't fire disrupters (fed side)
    5. Personal weapons. should switch all to fed standard weapons.

    As a personal note, since the simple solution is just to wave a wand and add a toggle, I want one that changes the wimpy borg, back to something that is feared.:p

    As a last note, toggles should only be in the c-store, that way the people who want this can pay for it and hopefully offset the costs and time removed from much better projects that need the resources.

    Guess it wasn't a last note, upon reviewing my post we only need one Toggle. Single Player or Multi-player.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    The problem lies with the policy of allowing this to happen, when features have been released, there is often no way to get the cat back into the bag. Customization can take many forms, and certainly be less extreme. Tiny canon ship variations or invisible internal components might not look impressive, but they do not look out of place either. Less junk on the ships in the future would be a good plan in my book. Although the bookstore owner might disagree.

    My Excelsior take the appearance of some kind of space Christmas tree with the Aegis on. And it's not the season anymore.

    ---
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    Tolerance. That is what this is about. These are options in game that players can choose to use or not to use. We all must be tolerant. I tolerate you, and you should tolerate me.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    jam062307 wrote: »
    Tolerance. That is what this is about. These are options in game that players can choose to use or not to use. We all must be tolerant. I tolerate you, and you should tolerate me.

    Actually this is nothing at all to do with tolerance it never has been. This was a thread about too many Reman/Borg/Tron modifications without an alternative of equal use in a more Fed-fashion.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    Nix, repeat this until you feel better:

    Q,
    With all your mighty benevolence,
    Grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change,
    Courage to change the things I can,
    And wisdom to know the difference.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    Ithaqua wrote:
    Nix, repeat this until you feel better:

    Q,
    With all your mighty benevolence,
    Grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change,
    Courage to change the things I can,
    And wisdom to know the difference.

    No, I shan't. One does not know what one can or cannot change until one tries to do so.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    nixboox wrote: »
    Actually this is nothing at all to do with tolerance it never has been. This was a thread about too many Reman/Borg/Tron modifications without an alternative of equal use in a more Fed-fashion.

    Um, you could have made it a bit more clear ya know. Your thread started out doing nothing but complaining about people rolling around with the other ones, and barely said a word beyond
    we're about to have nothing at all left of the original Federation ship design
    about offering comparative shield arrays for the feds so that ships would have a more fed look about them.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    nixboox wrote: »
    No, I shan't. One does not know what one can or cannot change until one tries to do so.

    That's what the "wisdom" part is there for bud. ;)
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    nixboox wrote: »
    Actually this is nothing at all to do with tolerance it never has been. This was a thread about too many Reman/Borg/Tron modifications without an alternative of equal use in a more Fed-fashion.

    That may be why you started this thread, but that is not what this thread has turned into. The community has changed it into something else. I would support Fed fashion tech. But then it would leave out the KDF and we can't have that. The ageis is the closest we have come to fed-fashion. Don't really know exactly what you are looking for here.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    jam062307 wrote: »
    Voyager had borg stuff put on the ship during one of its seasons (can't remember what season or episode and I'm too lazy to go and find out). And it always had borg tech help them out.

    Lot of pages since I was last here...

    1)It didn't look as idiotic as it does in game

    2)It still looked idiotic somewhat

    3)They were in the delta Quadrant, huge difference there. We can get to earth in a heartbeat.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    jam062307 wrote: »
    That may be why you started this thread, but that is not what this thread has turned into. The community has changed it into something else. I would support Fed fashion tech. But then it would leave out the KDF and we can't have that. The ageis is the closest we have come to fed-fashion. Don't really know exactly what you are looking for here.

    You know, the romulan shields could be interpreted as meant for the klingons. It was in the original Star Trek III script that the Klinks stole the BoP, not that it was theirs from the get go.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    dorko1 wrote: »
    Um, you could have made it a bit more clear ya know. Your thread started out doing nothing but complaining about people rolling around with the other ones, and barely said a word beyond about offering comparative shield arrays for the feds so that ships would have a more fed look about them.

    It's just a Covariant Shield Array [Cap]x2 with a fancy name and graphic FX. Chances are likely that you already have this (or better) on your cruiser right now...
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    dorko1 wrote: »
    You know, the romulan shields could be interpreted as meant for the klingons. It was in the original Star Trek III script that the Klinks stole the BoP, not that it was theirs from the get go.

    Remans =/= Romulans
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    Martok42 wrote: »
    Remans =/= Romulans

    dude...
    remans fly around in the same ships as romulans do. As far as I can tell, there's been little difference in tech.
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