I really fail to understand why everyone feels their favorite ship must be a T5.
Why not simply fly favorite ships anyway and accept the fact that they are not top of the line ships.
TOS and TMP ships can be justified for existing in the game, they cannot however ever be justified as top of the line ships.
Because our toons are VA/LG1? Because there's no game related reason that a TNG fan, playing with his favorite ship and uniforms, should have massive in game advantages over me because I'm a TOS fan? Because Cryptic has made it pretty clear that they don't give a rat's behind about canon appearance of toons, so why should they care about the appearance of my ship, especially when I want to use a canon ship? Because me doing what I enjoy does nothing to stop you from doing what you enjoy?
Other than for selfish reasons, why should what you think is good for the game, take precedence over what others think is good for the game.
And how does your explanation of how an old vessel would compare to newer ones, override the fact that the "Old Looking" vessels that are being talked about, are being built using the Same Modern Technology that the newer ones are using??
Then they aren't really that class of ship now are they
Now.... if we want to keep going in a circle... Everyones reasons for what they think is good for the game are in one respect or another selfish. I have my measure, and it works for me, hence I use it when I post about topics on the forum. Does it make me right? No, I'm not foolish enough to think so. Is your opinion wrong? No, but I don't agree with it based on my measure of whats good for the game. Thus we argue and debate. Voicing our reasons for why we hold a certain POV. Just because I find it hard to respect the arguement "I want a shiny cuz its cool", doesn't mean I'll go fly off the handle and freak out about it, lol.
Cryptics done a lot to the game I don't agree with. I don't think I've ever flipped out about it. Though now I think they've started to steer in the right direction.
Like someone else has stated. The structural instability of the Constitution design would (in my mind) kabosh it ever making a reappearance as a military ship. Simply put, its hull design can't hold up to the stresses put on it by modern specs. It's not a solid ship. Its diffuse in design. The TMP connie is better, but still not great in this respect.
Thats one of the reasons why the ships designed in the 90's and on have become more compact and solid. People realized that the instability of the designs in the 60's would make many sci-fi fans scratch their heads. Ever notice how many other IP's use ships that are very compact, with few extraneous external components?
The Sovereign and Intrepid are designs in that direction.
Who's saying 'Gimme NAO!!!"? Nice straw man. Shall I describe your position as 'OMG IT DOESN'T FOLLOW THE TECH MANUAL!!! THAT HAS TO BE ON DECK 5!!!! RAGEQUIT!'? That doesn't really get us anywhere. Especially when a bunch of Star Trek fans start accusing each other of being nerds. We're all nerds around these parts.
I want a T5 Connie because I'm a TOS Trek fan. That's the Star Trek show that I prefer. That's the ship that I'd like to fly around in. The TOS uniforms are the uniforms I like to dress my toons in. I want the interior of my ship to look like the interior of the U.S.S. Enterprise.
See, I bought this game to play a Star Trek game.
Let me add: It continuously amazes me, the people who complain and complain about me having TOS style toons and wanting to have a TOS style ship, whose own toons don't look like anything I've ever seen on Star Trek. The ships have to be completely canon, or they're out, but they can play a cheerleader with pink pigtails in the KDF. The fact that that irritates me doesn't matter to them. Likewise, them being irritated my TOS preference? Doesn't bother me in the least.
If you weren't irritated by what I said, you wouldn't have quoted me and then exagerated the tone of my post.
Plus, if you throw science (and engineering) out the window, its no longer SCIENCE fiction then, is it?
Seems to have opened a major pandoras box of totally ridicolous nonsensicle ideas.
Still, I am optimistic as there has yet to be a single canon violating Retrofit(excelsior comes close, but is validated by the U.S.S. Lakora), and the reality that the T5 Constitution has been stricken off the Engineering reports long ago. :cool:
Seems to have opened a major pandoras box of totally ridicolous nonsensicle ideas.
Still, I am optimistic as there has yet to be a single canon violating Retrofit(excelsior comes close, but is validated by the U.S.S. Lakora), and the reality that the T5 Constitution has been stricken off the Engineering reports long ago. :cool:
Sorry, but if you want to make the 'canon' arguement, I don't see 40 to 50 year old designs being Top/Front line ships. period. Yes, there would be no 1701 or 1701-A Constitutions, or Mirandas, or Obereths AT ALL - but by that same token:
Excelsiors
Galaxy Class
Intrepid Class
Defiant Class
Akira Class
(insert any TNG era ship here)
Would be Tier One or Tier Two ships AT BEST in an all out 'shooting war'. All the rest would be new Cryptic non-canon designs (and honestly nothing wrong with that per se); but if you really want to get 'canon technical' no 40+ year old design would be at a T5 level. And again, dump every uniform variant that isn't newly Cryptic desgned, as those uniforms (even the AGT versions are 10 - 25 years in the past depending on your interpetation of canon sources from TNG's All Good Things to DS9's The Visitor.
In fact the only faction that (in ST canon) consistently sticks with and upgrades VERY OLD designs are the Klingons.
If you weren't irritated by what I said, you wouldn't have quoted me and then exagerated the tone of my post.
Plus, if you throw science (and engineering) out the window, its no longer SCIENCE fiction then, is it?
I was rather irritated by the tone of your post. In fact, I could have reported it for your 'Gimme NAO!' comment, technically. But instead I tried to address you rationally. And, of course, you haven't responded to any of my actual points.
This isn't a Sci-Fi game. This is a Star Trek game. Shall I give you a short list of episodes (pick your series) which defied 'science' in their plotlines?
You have your favorite era of Star Trek. I have my favorite era of Star Trek. Why is me playing a Star Trek game the way I want to play it any concern of yours?
And again, if you're going to be the canon police, start with uniforms on players. And start that with your own toons. Then, once I can go to Earth Spacedock and see people who look like Federation personnel, or Qo'nos and see KDF races, we can go on to discussing which ships are technically appropriate to the year in which the game is set.
Until then, at least the ship I want was featured on Star Trek.
I was rather irritated by the tone of your post. In fact, I could have reported it for your 'Gimme NAO!' comment, technically. But instead I tried to address you rationally. And, of course, you haven't responded to any of my actual points.
This isn't a Sci-Fi game. This is a Star Trek game. Shall I give you a short list of episodes (pick your series) which defied 'science' in their plotlines?
You have your favorite era of Star Trek. I have my favorite era of Star Trek. Why is me playing a Star Trek game the way I want to play it any concern of yours?
And again, if you're going to be the canon police, start with uniforms on players. And start that with your own toons. Then, once I can go to Earth Spacedock and see people who look like Federation personnel, or Qo'nos and see KDF races, we can go on to discussing which ships are technically appropriate to the year in which the game is set.
Until then, at least the ship I want was featured on Star Trek.
Lol, I'm not being the canon police. I'm being the logic police. That ship has no business existing beside a state of the art starship in the 25th century. Thats it. Thats my whole point. Has nothing to do with canon.
The ship has very little in common with the "modern" ships beside it.
If you want to get all upset over misspelled words, I think you may have bigger issues than me not wanting a certain ship at a certain tier in a certain game.
I've played SFC 1 and 2 and had no problem playing those ships, because they were era appropriate. The connie isn't era appropriate in this game.
There is only one thing that always "bummed" me about this issue:
I kinda do not wanna see a ship the 1/4th the size and volume of mine actually matching "my beef".
The Constitution is a cruise,r it stands to reason the refit would be too. I do not want such a tiny vessel being able to match, say, a Galaxy or a Sovereign.
The Bop and B'rel in general i can live with, despite their capability. They are klingon ,they are alien ,they do not NEED to "fit" into the Federation.
This issue is a very clear case of immersion breakdown.
Now IF cryptic actually manages to "size up" the model while keeping the overall style intact so that it at least gets towards the size of an excelsior... THEN i can work myself to actually accept this.
Lol, I'm not being the canon police. I'm being the logic police.
This is not real. It is a game. Logic doesn't really matter all that much as you need to have an imagination to begin with in order to enjoy it. If you do not have the ability to expand your definition of what should and should not be, then I am sorry. But you should really only be worrying about yourself. This game is not who flys what ship. It's about content. Worry about your own characters and own ships. Be tolerant of the opinions and likes of others. Don't just shut them out because they don't conform to you. If it really bothers you that much, find other like-minded individuals and make a fleet and surround yourself with them.
There is only one thing that always "bummed" me about this issue:
I kinda do not wanna see a ship the 1/4th the size and volume of mine actually matching "my beef".
The Constitution is a cruise,r it stands to reason the refit would be too. I do not want such a tiny vessel being able to match, say, a Galaxy or a Sovereign.
The Bop and B'rel in general i can live with, despite their capability. They are klingon ,they are alien ,they do not NEED to "fit" into the Federation.
This issue is a very clear case of immersion breakdown.
Now IF cryptic actually manages to "size up" the model while keeping the overall style intact so that it at least gets towards the size of an excelsior... THEN i can work myself to actually accept this.
That is why I'm an advocate for a replica ship and not a refit. Replica's can be to any scale. New ship, new parts, new size, old look.
In order to make them valid for use, in specific scenarios, at least, I have an idea. So that we don't have NX class ships taking down tactical cubes, delivering more damage then a sovereign normally would.
Specific missions where one has to use a specific ship(or one of a select few), or of a specific tier, these can be both PVE and PVP.
PVE isn't to hard to comprehend a scenario in which you would have to use a ship that looks like an older class physically. These would be time travel missions, you unlock these missions when you own the specific ship required, and are of sufficient rank, possibly VA. These could be a series of missions involving the Enterprise Era(using the NX class), or where you have to go back in time to the Original Series era and have to use something like a Constitution, Oberth, Excelsior, or a Miranda.
You would also have to use appropriate weapons to fit the era, your modern equipment can be covered up by special equipment so scans will get false readings, but you need to use appropriate weapons for your era, and possibly use no shielding for your Enterprise era.
A size difference between the original and yours might be a concern, but we can ignore that for these missions.
Also, there could be the ability to pick up missions that require a specific tier of ship, not for time travel, but instead for a more specialized mission, I'm betting the creators could come up with some phenomenon that might force you to use a specific tier, maybe a stellar phenomenon that effects warp cores and only a specific tier can work, or something else... idk yet.
For PvP it can be special pvp scenarios, basically like the normal arena, but you are required to use a specific tier, you queue up much like normal, but instead of the normal slot, you select one for tier 1-4 instead, but it wont let you queue up if you have the wrong ship selected. The standard queue will still let you use whatever you want. Also, you could select one for shuttles/fighters as well, so you can have fun with a runabout in pvp against equivalent ships.
Edit: These could be large chains of missions, eventually, just to give you somewhere to use your ship, where no other ship could go, or at least only a few others.
Lol, I'm not being the canon police. I'm being the logic police. That ship has no business existing beside a state of the art starship in the 25th century. Thats it. Thats my whole point. Has nothing to do with canon.
The ship has very little in common with the "modern" ships beside it.
If you want to get all upset over misspelled words, I think you may have bigger issues than me not wanting a certain ship at a certain tier in a certain game.
Where did I say anything about mis-spelled words? And again, logic police? How 'logical' is it within the Star Trek setting to have Qo'nos be full of human women with pink and blond pigtails, designed to be 'cutesy'? How 'logical' is it to the Star Trek setting that Starfleet has completely abandoned its uniform code?
Logic, like canon, has been tossed out the window in this game in favor of 'player desire'. Why you're straining at a gnat while swallowing a camel, I don't know.
And I reiterate, why does it matter to you what I do? If me flying a T5 Constitution is game breaking, don't group with me. I have no problem with that. Just like I don't group with players named 'Bunnyfoofoo" or who have completely immersion breaking appearances.
But why you're hellbent on me enjoying the game less, you still have failed to explain to me.
I kinda do not wanna see a ship the 1/4th the size and volume of mine actually matching "my beef".
So don't group with them. You're never forced to group with any particular person in this game. If you think a Defiant is too tiny to match your prowess, don't group with people in Defiants. Or TOS Connies. Or whatever else you don't like.
Lots of things people do in this game ruin my immersion. So I make it a point to avoid those people. Cryptic has made it really easy to do in this game. But I don't try to campaign to get Cryptic to ruin their fun.
This is not real. It is a game. Logic doesn't really matter all that much as you need to have an imagination to begin with in order to enjoy it. If you do not have the ability to expand your definition of what should and should not be, then I am sorry. But you should really only be worrying about yourself. This game is not who flys what ship. It's about content. Worry about your own characters and own ships. Be tolerant of the opinions and likes of others. Don't just shut them out because they don't conform to you. If it really bothers you that much, find other like-minded individuals and make a fleet and surround yourself with them.
Where did I say anything about mis-spelled words? And again, logic police? How 'logical' is it within the Star Trek setting to have Qo'nos be full of human women with pink and blond pigtails, designed to be 'cutesy'? How 'logical' is it to the Star Trek setting that Starfleet has completely abandoned its uniform code?
Logic, like canon, has been tossed out the window in this game in favor of 'player desire'. Why you're straining at a gnat while swallowing a camel, I don't know.
And I reiterate, why does it matter to you what I do? If me flying a T5 Constitution is game breaking, don't group with me. I have no problem with that. Just like I don't group with players named 'Bunnyfoofoo" or who have completely immersion breaking appearances.
But why you're hellbent on me enjoying the game less, you still have failed to explain to me.
Are you enjoying the game now? If not, why are you playing?
I am, and when I have my TOS interiors, I'll enjoy it even more. And when I inevitably get my T5 (or heck, 6) Connie, I'll be enjoying it even more. Why you care about that, again, is beyond me.
I'm hellbent on consistency. I don't really care whether or not you are or aren't. If you want to go play a hodge podge game of meaninglessness, then do so.
No, no you're not. As I've pointed out several times. You have a bee in your bonnet about a particular type of ship. But you don't care about the radical logical inconsistency in peoples' toons on Earth spacedock and Qo'nos. You don't care about consistency there. I suspect because you don't want to be limited to canon uniforms. So where you want to be inconsistent, that's fine. Where I want to be (less) inconsistent, that's a huge problem for you. For some reason you still haven't explained.
I bought this game, I play it, and I have a voice to say what I do and do not want. if you don't like it, get off the forum because you obviously can't stand disagreement.
I bought this game, I play it, and I have a voice to say what I do and do not want. If you don't like it, get off the forum, because you obviously can't stand disagreement.
I bought this game, I play it, and I have a voice to say what I do and do not want. If you don't like it, get off the forum, because you obviously can't stand disagreement.
I'm not the one running around saying how people are tryiong to wreck my fun, or getting miffed by phrases. Which, if I remember correctly, threatening to report people is against the forum rules
Now, the topic here isn't the uniforms, its the ships. Forgive me for staying on topic.
Uniforms are far easier to swallow than a relic flying around pwning cubes. That only requires a replicator, the other requires a leap of suspension of disbelief that I'm just not willing to make.
So if you have such an issue with the myriad uniforms and races of the klingon faction, make a thread on it and I'll gripe there
Its funny, ive seen many people whining lately about the new "looks" with Borg, Aegis and now the Reman equipment and that its so un-starfleet..... and yet people keep screaming they want flying rustbuckets to kick Sovereign TRIBBLE which is just as un-starfleet. :rolleyes:
Its funny, ive seen many people whining lately about the new "looks" with Borg, Aegis and now the Reman equipment and that its so un-starfleet..... and yet people keep screaming they want flying rustbuckets to kick Sovereign TRIBBLE which is just as un-starfleet. :rolleyes:
I don't think I have ever said or have read someone saying they wanted a T-5 connie to be as powerful as a Sovereign. I have said I want it to be competitive. I want it to be an option. I want it to be viable. Do I think a t-5 connie should have the same hull strength as a Sovereign, no. The connie will be smaller. Do I think it should have more power, probably. Figure the same warp core in both ships would provide a lot more power to a Connie than a Sovereign because it is smaller. Better shields, stands to reason if it has more power the shields would be stronger. Better turn rate, yup. Better weapons, that's tough. I'd personally like to see a 4 front 3 aft, but don't think that is really fair, probably more along the lines of a intrepid 3 and 3, I mean common, a Connie is about the same size as an intrepid anyway. Now it just comes down to BO slots and consoles. I think 3 consoles of each would probably be best, and for canon sake a BO layout like the series. Com. Sci, LT Com Eng, LT Tac, Lt. Eng, and Ens. Sci. That's a good ship that can be helpful and competitive in the game, but probably would not be able to beat a Sovereign in 1v1 pvp. Not many ships can beat a sovereign 1v1 if the build is right.
I don't think I have ever said or have read someone saying they wanted a T-5 connie to be as powerful as a Sovereign. I have said I want it to be competitive. I want it to be an option. I want it to be viable. Do I think a t-5 connie should have the same hull strength as a Sovereign, no. The connie will be smaller. Do I think it should have more power, probably. Figure the same warp core in both ships would provide a lot more power to a Connie than a Sovereign because it is smaller. Better shields, stands to reason if it has more power the shields would be stronger. Better turn rate, yup. Better weapons, that's tough. I'd personally like to see a 4 front 3 aft, but don't think that is really fair, probably more along the lines of a intrepid 3 and 3, I mean common, a Connie is about the same size as an intrepid anyway. Now it just comes down to BO slots and consoles. I think 3 consoles of each would probably be best, and for canon sake a BO layout like the series. Com. Sci, LT Com Eng, LT Tac, Lt. Eng, and Ens. Sci. That's a good ship that can be helpful and competitive in the game, but probably would not be able to beat a Sovereign in 1v1 pvp. Not many ships can beat a sovereign 1v1 if the build is right.
A Sovereign would always have more power because of its larger warp core.
I got no objections about itty bitty stronger ships, but TOS ships should never be able to go toe to toe with 24th and 25th century ships which unfortunately a lot of people want.
A Sovereign would always have more power because of its larger warp core.
I got no objections about itty bitty stronger ships, but TOS ships should never be able to go toe to toe with 24th and 25th century ships which unfortunately a lot of people want.
Define toe to toe. Do I think a sovereign should be able to 2 shot a connie, absolutely not. Do I think that in a hard fought battle a sovereign should win, probably, but if the builds are favorable, I'm for a sovereign not being able to finish the job. I'll give an example. I tested builds with a buddy the other day. I played my soverieng and he tested various klingon builds 1v1. In the vorcha refit, it took me over 5 minutes to finally finish destroying him, but it was also because he made a mistake in using abilities and when. He couldn't touch my health, and I continually plowed his down, but his healing abilities always kicked in right before I could finish him. I'm ok with a Connie that can operate like that. Can't really touch a sovereign 1v1 and destroy it, but would be difficult to finish off if the Boff build was for healing.
There is only one thing that always "bummed" me about this issue:
I kinda do not wanna see a ship the 1/4th the size and volume of mine actually matching "my beef".
The Constitution is a cruise,r it stands to reason the refit would be too. I do not want such a tiny vessel being able to match, say, a Galaxy or a Sovereign.
The Bop and B'rel in general i can live with, despite their capability. They are klingon ,they are alien ,they do not NEED to "fit" into the Federation.
This issue is a very clear case of immersion breakdown.
Now IF cryptic actually manages to "size up" the model while keeping the overall style intact so that it at least gets towards the size of an excelsior... THEN i can work myself to actually accept this.
So your saying a ships size should determine who wins in a fight? :eek: Really?
Here I thought a players skill was supposed to count for something.
I really fail to understand why everyone feels their favorite ship must be a T5.
Why not simply fly favorite ships anyway and accept the fact that they are not top of the line ships.
TOS and TMP ships can be justified for existing in the game, they cannot however ever be justified as top of the line ships.
Why should I be "gimmed" just for the ship I want to fly?
Where did I say anything about mis-spelled words? And again, logic police? How 'logical' is it within the Star Trek setting to have Qo'nos be full of human women with pink and blond pigtails, designed to be 'cutesy'? How 'logical' is it to the Star Trek setting that Starfleet has completely abandoned its uniform code?
Logic, like canon, has been tossed out the window in this game in favor of 'player desire'. Why you're straining at a gnat while swallowing a camel, I don't know.
And I reiterate, why does it matter to you what I do? If me flying a T5 Constitution is game breaking, don't group with me. I have no problem with that. Just like I don't group with players named 'Bunnyfoofoo" or who have completely immersion breaking appearances.
But why you're hellbent on me enjoying the game less, you still have failed to explain to me.
I agree with everything you've posted in this thread. Just wanted to let you know.
You know back a few months ago I would should against this, however I amw illing to have people take their mirandas to tier 5 ont he condision I can do the same with my captain's yacht.
All shuttles, including the captain's yacht "rank-up" with you.
Comments
Because our toons are VA/LG1? Because there's no game related reason that a TNG fan, playing with his favorite ship and uniforms, should have massive in game advantages over me because I'm a TOS fan? Because Cryptic has made it pretty clear that they don't give a rat's behind about canon appearance of toons, so why should they care about the appearance of my ship, especially when I want to use a canon ship? Because me doing what I enjoy does nothing to stop you from doing what you enjoy?
Then they aren't really that class of ship now are they
Now.... if we want to keep going in a circle... Everyones reasons for what they think is good for the game are in one respect or another selfish. I have my measure, and it works for me, hence I use it when I post about topics on the forum. Does it make me right? No, I'm not foolish enough to think so. Is your opinion wrong? No, but I don't agree with it based on my measure of whats good for the game. Thus we argue and debate. Voicing our reasons for why we hold a certain POV. Just because I find it hard to respect the arguement "I want a shiny cuz its cool", doesn't mean I'll go fly off the handle and freak out about it, lol.
Cryptics done a lot to the game I don't agree with. I don't think I've ever flipped out about it. Though now I think they've started to steer in the right direction.
Like someone else has stated. The structural instability of the Constitution design would (in my mind) kabosh it ever making a reappearance as a military ship. Simply put, its hull design can't hold up to the stresses put on it by modern specs. It's not a solid ship. Its diffuse in design. The TMP connie is better, but still not great in this respect.
Thats one of the reasons why the ships designed in the 90's and on have become more compact and solid. People realized that the instability of the designs in the 60's would make many sci-fi fans scratch their heads. Ever notice how many other IP's use ships that are very compact, with few extraneous external components?
The Sovereign and Intrepid are designs in that direction.
If you weren't irritated by what I said, you wouldn't have quoted me and then exagerated the tone of my post.
Plus, if you throw science (and engineering) out the window, its no longer SCIENCE fiction then, is it?
Seems to have opened a major pandoras box of totally ridicolous nonsensicle ideas.
Still, I am optimistic as there has yet to be a single canon violating Retrofit(excelsior comes close, but is validated by the U.S.S. Lakora), and the reality that the T5 Constitution has been stricken off the Engineering reports long ago. :cool:
Sorry, but if you want to make the 'canon' arguement, I don't see 40 to 50 year old designs being Top/Front line ships. period. Yes, there would be no 1701 or 1701-A Constitutions, or Mirandas, or Obereths AT ALL - but by that same token:
Excelsiors
Galaxy Class
Intrepid Class
Defiant Class
Akira Class
(insert any TNG era ship here)
Would be Tier One or Tier Two ships AT BEST in an all out 'shooting war'. All the rest would be new Cryptic non-canon designs (and honestly nothing wrong with that per se); but if you really want to get 'canon technical' no 40+ year old design would be at a T5 level. And again, dump every uniform variant that isn't newly Cryptic desgned, as those uniforms (even the AGT versions are 10 - 25 years in the past depending on your interpetation of canon sources from TNG's All Good Things to DS9's The Visitor.
In fact the only faction that (in ST canon) consistently sticks with and upgrades VERY OLD designs are the Klingons.
I was rather irritated by the tone of your post. In fact, I could have reported it for your 'Gimme NAO!' comment, technically. But instead I tried to address you rationally. And, of course, you haven't responded to any of my actual points.
This isn't a Sci-Fi game. This is a Star Trek game. Shall I give you a short list of episodes (pick your series) which defied 'science' in their plotlines?
You have your favorite era of Star Trek. I have my favorite era of Star Trek. Why is me playing a Star Trek game the way I want to play it any concern of yours?
And again, if you're going to be the canon police, start with uniforms on players. And start that with your own toons. Then, once I can go to Earth Spacedock and see people who look like Federation personnel, or Qo'nos and see KDF races, we can go on to discussing which ships are technically appropriate to the year in which the game is set.
Until then, at least the ship I want was featured on Star Trek.
Lol, I'm not being the canon police. I'm being the logic police. That ship has no business existing beside a state of the art starship in the 25th century. Thats it. Thats my whole point. Has nothing to do with canon.
The ship has very little in common with the "modern" ships beside it.
If you want to get all upset over misspelled words, I think you may have bigger issues than me not wanting a certain ship at a certain tier in a certain game.
I've played SFC 1 and 2 and had no problem playing those ships, because they were era appropriate. The connie isn't era appropriate in this game.
I kinda do not wanna see a ship the 1/4th the size and volume of mine actually matching "my beef".
The Constitution is a cruise,r it stands to reason the refit would be too. I do not want such a tiny vessel being able to match, say, a Galaxy or a Sovereign.
The Bop and B'rel in general i can live with, despite their capability. They are klingon ,they are alien ,they do not NEED to "fit" into the Federation.
This issue is a very clear case of immersion breakdown.
Now IF cryptic actually manages to "size up" the model while keeping the overall style intact so that it at least gets towards the size of an excelsior... THEN i can work myself to actually accept this.
This is not real. It is a game. Logic doesn't really matter all that much as you need to have an imagination to begin with in order to enjoy it. If you do not have the ability to expand your definition of what should and should not be, then I am sorry. But you should really only be worrying about yourself. This game is not who flys what ship. It's about content. Worry about your own characters and own ships. Be tolerant of the opinions and likes of others. Don't just shut them out because they don't conform to you. If it really bothers you that much, find other like-minded individuals and make a fleet and surround yourself with them.
That is why I'm an advocate for a replica ship and not a refit. Replica's can be to any scale. New ship, new parts, new size, old look.
Specific missions where one has to use a specific ship(or one of a select few), or of a specific tier, these can be both PVE and PVP.
PVE isn't to hard to comprehend a scenario in which you would have to use a ship that looks like an older class physically. These would be time travel missions, you unlock these missions when you own the specific ship required, and are of sufficient rank, possibly VA. These could be a series of missions involving the Enterprise Era(using the NX class), or where you have to go back in time to the Original Series era and have to use something like a Constitution, Oberth, Excelsior, or a Miranda.
You would also have to use appropriate weapons to fit the era, your modern equipment can be covered up by special equipment so scans will get false readings, but you need to use appropriate weapons for your era, and possibly use no shielding for your Enterprise era.
A size difference between the original and yours might be a concern, but we can ignore that for these missions.
Also, there could be the ability to pick up missions that require a specific tier of ship, not for time travel, but instead for a more specialized mission, I'm betting the creators could come up with some phenomenon that might force you to use a specific tier, maybe a stellar phenomenon that effects warp cores and only a specific tier can work, or something else... idk yet.
For PvP it can be special pvp scenarios, basically like the normal arena, but you are required to use a specific tier, you queue up much like normal, but instead of the normal slot, you select one for tier 1-4 instead, but it wont let you queue up if you have the wrong ship selected. The standard queue will still let you use whatever you want. Also, you could select one for shuttles/fighters as well, so you can have fun with a runabout in pvp against equivalent ships.
Edit: These could be large chains of missions, eventually, just to give you somewhere to use your ship, where no other ship could go, or at least only a few others.
Where did I say anything about mis-spelled words? And again, logic police? How 'logical' is it within the Star Trek setting to have Qo'nos be full of human women with pink and blond pigtails, designed to be 'cutesy'? How 'logical' is it to the Star Trek setting that Starfleet has completely abandoned its uniform code?
Logic, like canon, has been tossed out the window in this game in favor of 'player desire'. Why you're straining at a gnat while swallowing a camel, I don't know.
And I reiterate, why does it matter to you what I do? If me flying a T5 Constitution is game breaking, don't group with me. I have no problem with that. Just like I don't group with players named 'Bunnyfoofoo" or who have completely immersion breaking appearances.
But why you're hellbent on me enjoying the game less, you still have failed to explain to me.
So don't group with them. You're never forced to group with any particular person in this game. If you think a Defiant is too tiny to match your prowess, don't group with people in Defiants. Or TOS Connies. Or whatever else you don't like.
Lots of things people do in this game ruin my immersion. So I make it a point to avoid those people. Cryptic has made it really easy to do in this game. But I don't try to campaign to get Cryptic to ruin their fun.
Ahem.... let me be clear.
No.
Intolerance strikes again.
Yes... yes it does. Do you not see the intolerance in being intolerant of my intolerance?
I tolerate your intolerance tolerably.
Well good. We can both tolerate the intolerance of eachother
I am, and when I have my TOS interiors, I'll enjoy it even more. And when I inevitably get my T5 (or heck, 6) Connie, I'll be enjoying it even more. Why you care about that, again, is beyond me.
No, no you're not. As I've pointed out several times. You have a bee in your bonnet about a particular type of ship. But you don't care about the radical logical inconsistency in peoples' toons on Earth spacedock and Qo'nos. You don't care about consistency there. I suspect because you don't want to be limited to canon uniforms. So where you want to be inconsistent, that's fine. Where I want to be (less) inconsistent, that's a huge problem for you. For some reason you still haven't explained.
I bought this game, I play it, and I have a voice to say what I do and do not want. If you don't like it, get off the forum, because you obviously can't stand disagreement.
I'm not the one running around saying how people are tryiong to wreck my fun, or getting miffed by phrases. Which, if I remember correctly, threatening to report people is against the forum rules
Now, the topic here isn't the uniforms, its the ships. Forgive me for staying on topic.
Uniforms are far easier to swallow than a relic flying around pwning cubes. That only requires a replicator, the other requires a leap of suspension of disbelief that I'm just not willing to make.
So if you have such an issue with the myriad uniforms and races of the klingon faction, make a thread on it and I'll gripe there
The engineer in me screams "NOOOOO!!!!" lol
I don't think I have ever said or have read someone saying they wanted a T-5 connie to be as powerful as a Sovereign. I have said I want it to be competitive. I want it to be an option. I want it to be viable. Do I think a t-5 connie should have the same hull strength as a Sovereign, no. The connie will be smaller. Do I think it should have more power, probably. Figure the same warp core in both ships would provide a lot more power to a Connie than a Sovereign because it is smaller. Better shields, stands to reason if it has more power the shields would be stronger. Better turn rate, yup. Better weapons, that's tough. I'd personally like to see a 4 front 3 aft, but don't think that is really fair, probably more along the lines of a intrepid 3 and 3, I mean common, a Connie is about the same size as an intrepid anyway. Now it just comes down to BO slots and consoles. I think 3 consoles of each would probably be best, and for canon sake a BO layout like the series. Com. Sci, LT Com Eng, LT Tac, Lt. Eng, and Ens. Sci. That's a good ship that can be helpful and competitive in the game, but probably would not be able to beat a Sovereign in 1v1 pvp. Not many ships can beat a sovereign 1v1 if the build is right.
A Sovereign would always have more power because of its larger warp core.
I got no objections about itty bitty stronger ships, but TOS ships should never be able to go toe to toe with 24th and 25th century ships which unfortunately a lot of people want.
Define toe to toe. Do I think a sovereign should be able to 2 shot a connie, absolutely not. Do I think that in a hard fought battle a sovereign should win, probably, but if the builds are favorable, I'm for a sovereign not being able to finish the job. I'll give an example. I tested builds with a buddy the other day. I played my soverieng and he tested various klingon builds 1v1. In the vorcha refit, it took me over 5 minutes to finally finish destroying him, but it was also because he made a mistake in using abilities and when. He couldn't touch my health, and I continually plowed his down, but his healing abilities always kicked in right before I could finish him. I'm ok with a Connie that can operate like that. Can't really touch a sovereign 1v1 and destroy it, but would be difficult to finish off if the Boff build was for healing.
So your saying a ships size should determine who wins in a fight? :eek: Really?
Here I thought a players skill was supposed to count for something.
Why should I be "gimmed" just for the ship I want to fly?
You mean gimped?
And its because the ship you wanna fly blows klingon goobers
But seriously, I think the debate is pointless because many people are just not willing to waver.
I agree with everything you've posted in this thread. Just wanted to let you know.
All shuttles, including the captain's yacht "rank-up" with you.