how can changing a name, a npc contacts picture in dialogue box, start and finish local and if its a person you take with yous uniform be more hard work or as much work as creating content from scratch ? most mission text is generic, kill this go there bring that. and why would rewards need redoing. very few rewards are faction specific and there fine giving us federation rewards in the features.
Speaking as a Klingon player, I don't want that kind of content. I don't want warmed over Fed content. I don't want to go on 'humanitarian' missions. I don't want 'First Contact' missions that are based on the Prime Directive. I have Fed alts. I can do those missions on those toons.
If any of my Klingon generals enter Romulan space, it isn't going to be for scientific investigation of the Hobus supernova, or to bring medical aid to Romulan colonists. Its going to be to capture territory, ships, or weapons for the Empire. Or to gather tactical data to plan such a strike. Or to test defenses.
This means that the current Fed missions need to be substantially rewritten to work as 'real' Klingon content that will be satisfying to Klingon players. Not just reskinned with the text colored red.
Speaking as a Klingon player, I don't want that kind of content. I don't want warmed over Fed content. I don't want to go on 'humanitarian' missions. I don't want 'First Contact' missions that are based on the Prime Directive. I have Fed alts. I can do those missions on those toons.
If any of my Klingon generals enter Romulan space, it isn't going to be for scientific investigation of the Hobus supernova, or to bring medical aid to Romulan colonists. Its going to be to capture territory, ships, or weapons for the Empire. Or to gather tactical data to plan such a strike. Or to test defenses.
This means that the current Fed missions need to be substantially rewritten to work as 'real' Klingon content that will be satisfying to Klingon players. Not just reskinned with the text colored red.
so you dont want todo the ghostship chain, or the new link chain or the mirror universe chain and trueway chain.
Im not talking about all fed content,im talking about fed content that has no reason to be fed only especially now when talking about romulan missions due to the things done in the feature episodes.
This means that the current Fed missions need to be substantially rewritten to work as 'real' Klingon content that will be satisfying to Klingon players. Not just reskinned with the text colored red.
Not the first dozen that actually deal with the Klingons. All you would need to do is be playing them from the Klingon side of the story.
so you dont want todo the ghostship chain, or the truelink chain or the mirror universe chain. on a serious note do you not want to stop whichever faction house is messing with genetics on klingons and gorn and making the doomsday device, as kdf loyal soldiers we should be stopping that as genetic altering is a major major no no. im not talking about all fed content, im talking about fed content that has no reason to be fed only.
I would like to see a Klingon version of the whole genetic engineering/Ultimate Klingon plotline. But again, I would want to see it be substantially rewritten to work from a Klingon perspective. Like...going back in time and helping Kang or Koloth rather than Spock. And having it delve more deeply into the Klingon history it brushes over. I wouldn't want to play it on my Klingon toon exactly the way it is on Federation side, no.
And I'd like to see Mirror Universe stuff that involves the MU Klingon Empire more.
Put another way, what Klingon players want is new Klingon content. That means two things, the content has to be 'Klingon' in character, as distinct from Federation, and it has to be 'new'. One of the solid arguments for spending the time to make Klingon content, despite the small size of the faction, is that more new Klingon content will encourage Fed characters to roll Klingon alts and get involved in the faction. If all we have to offer is reskin of the content they've already played, it won't be all that enticing, will it?
I would like to see a Klingon version of the whole genetic engineering/Ultimate Klingon plotline. But again, I would want to see it be substantially rewritten to work from a Klingon perspective. Like...going back in time and helping Kang or Koloth rather than Spock. And having it delve more deeply into the Klingon history it brushes over. I wouldn't want to play it on my Klingon toon exactly the way it is on Federation side, no.
And I'd like to see Mirror Universe stuff that involves the MU Klingon Empire more.
Put another way, what Klingon players want is new Klingon content. That means two things, the content has to be 'Klingon' in character, as distinct from Federation, and it has to be 'new'. One of the solid arguments for spending the time to make Klingon content, despite the small size of the faction, is that more new Klingon content will encourage Fed characters to roll Klingon alts and get involved in the faction. If all we have to offer is reskin of the content they've already played, it won't be all that enticing, will it?
well you see spock is double sided, he could and would get kdf to help stop as we are from the future, we would just use the same hologramic tech like in the devidian series.spock does what is best for the timeline and the universe. like helping the romulans.
and yes we need KDF only content but that content we are talking about is pivitol to the KDF.
Edit btw im a KDF player also and i want content that is pivitol the the KDF not just the klingons.
Not the first dozen that actually deal with the Klingons. All you would need to do is be playing them from the Klingon side of the story.
See above post, but just reskinning those episodes, as opposed to rewriting them substantially to delve into the lore from a Klingon perspective:
1) Does nothing to attract Fed players to 'try the other side', since they've played those missions to death already.
2) Creates the illusion that there's more Klingon content than there actually is, discouraging devs from actually working on immersive Klingon content.
3) Doesn't give most Klingon players anything new, since most of us have played at least through those missions on the Fed side.
I see no real positives to reskinning that content. I would enjoy playing through a reworked, Klingon version of those stories, but if Cryptic says that based on the work involved, its just as easy for them to just create completely new Klingon content, I'm perfectly happy with that.
While I tend to roll my eyes at the number of "MOAR MISHUNS FOR KLINKS!!!!1!1" threads.. mainly because it has been said over, and over.. and over again, that they are working on making the KDF on a more even standing to the Federation, BUT the Federation will ALWAYS take precedence to any added factions, because that was the main storyline of the entirety of Star Trek.
That being said... The KDF is not, and should not be a PvP Faction ONLY.
To the OP, and those that keep making these threads... take a break.. give them a few months.. maybe even a year. Come back and see where they are ten. To Mr FarsightFrostwhisper, and those that keep trying to demean the KDF, please just stop. They are just as valuable to the story, game, and in all honesty, pocketbook of Cryptic and Atari. You may as well just accept it.
Yep, thats great. But even if they do have to re-write them, that would still be quicker than writing a completely new story and building a brand new mission from scratch. The basic story of those missions is sound, and would make sense to have a KDF version.
See above post, but just reskinning those episodes, as opposed to rewriting them substantially to delve into the lore from a Klingon perspective:
1) Does nothing to attract Fed players to 'try the other side', since they've played those missions to death already.
it puts the perspective that what the feds are stopping via taking down npcs ships we as the kdf are doing from the other side as in invading there space by killing federation npc ships and players, thus a loop effect that both sides are opposing each other
2) Creates the illusion that there's more Klingon content than there actually is, discouraging devs from actually working on immersive Klingon content.
wouldnt create an illusion of content, it would create content in the lower ranks
3) Doesn't give most Klingon players anything new, since most of us have played at least through those missions on the Fed side.
Gives new people kdf something new todo and players on the kdf side the chance to missions they didnt have prior to them being introduced
I see no real positives to reskinning that content. I would enjoy playing through a reworked, Klingon version of those stories, but if Cryptic says that based on the work involved, its just as easy for them to just create completely new Klingon content, I'm perfectly happy with that.
the positive to them being reskined to work as kdf missions would be the content provided to new players to the kdf, people leveling kdf and create a new interest in people playing and leveling kdf chars
To the OP, and those that keep making these threads... take a break.. give them a few months.. maybe even a year. Come back and see where they are ten. To Mr FarsightFrostwhisper, and those that keep trying to demean the KDF, please just stop. They are just as valuable to the story, game, and in all honesty, pocketbook of Cryptic and Atari. You may as well just accept it.
Peace
they said that a year ago, peace out to you :cool:
they said that a year ago, peace out to you :cool:
I'm a lifer.. I am in no rush. I know it'll get here when it gets here, and no amount of forum 'trolling' is going to help the situation.
If you are a lifer, I suggest taking a break from the game. Check back after season four and what they've been able to add, or not add as you seem to fear. If you aren't a lifer, stop playing for a while.. same as above. Come back later.
DStahl and the other Dev's are painfully aware of the KDF players that are not happy with the current status of their faction. They've said time and time again, that they are working to add Klingon content as fast as possible. If they aren't working fast enough for you, you have a few choices. Take them at their word and wait (which seems to be the best idea to me,) disregard their statements and rant and rave on the forums (kinda like people are still doing, which seems to not get the desired effect you want) or.. hey... take a break and come back later. Or maybe Cryptic isn't ever going to be the Star Trek creators you want them to be, and you'd save a lot of cash, and headache/heartache if you cut ties now.
I choose to listen to what they say, and give them the time to implement the changes that they can, when they can. I sidetrack myself with alternate characters, daily missions.. episodic content.. and ever so often I go play other games. I don't see the problem with this method. YMMV.
so your advise is if your a lifer take a break, if your not become a lifer and take a break ? if you dont want to be a lifer pay subs and wait or cancel and come back ?
so your advise is if your a lifer take a break, if your not become a lifer and take a break ? if you dont want to be a lifer pay subs and wait or cancel and come back ?
I'm saying you have choices.. all of them, with the exception of leaving permanently is going to require waiting.. because.. hey.. the new KDF content has not been created yet...
With that waiting, you have the choice of ranting and raving, b*tching and moaning, which really doesn't accomplish anything. Or you can wait playing the game, with alts.. or heck, wait for the content while playing other games. Whether or not you come back is up to you, no?
If you are a lifer, you can take as long a break as you want.. as long as the game is alive, you have access. If you are a subber.. stop paying for your account. Save your cash and check on the status of the KDF that way.
and i quote ---- Star Trek Online (STO or ST: O for short) was the name of a massively multiplayer online role-playing game (MMORPG) under development at Perpetual Entertainment.
In January 2008, Perpetual Entertainment ceased production of the game and laid off the entire Star Trek Online development team. Non-code assets of the development [1] [2] were transferred to Cryptic Studios, who have subsequently developed their own title under the same name, but with significantly different game mechanics. [3]
Beta testing was formerly slated to begin in winter of 2007 or spring of 2008 with a tentative launch in early 2009, after the release of the newest film, Star Trek. [4]
so they got all the art an stuff like that and used there own game engine, see video linked below, bottom link, 20 mins in.
so when you read that you try and tell me that another developer worked on sto for 3 years and only managed to create a game engine.
I didn't say they [perpetual or any other developer prior to Cryptic working on STO] had created only a game engine in their own development cycle, quite the opposite is what was implied given what I had said about a short development cycle not allowing for the content guys to create a bunch of missions on Cryptic's part. Those teams typically work concurrently so when the guys making the engine have working model, there's already a slough of content to shove into it with an opportunity to create more and then refine that content thanks to the length of a normal development cycle. As it was, Cryptic decided to recycle the Champions engine, use any "Non-code assets" they gained from Perpetual as a start point, and have the majority of their team shove content into the game with what turned out to not be enough time to be able to make enough for both Fed and Klink players. Triage occurred, and Klinks got the short end.
ow an to stop you in your tracks, watch http://vimeo.com/1504688?pg=embed&sec=1504688 from 20 minuites in. thats 3 years old, the games been out just over a year and they developed it for 2 years, you do the math. thats the original video i saw, thats the reason i left wow and thats the reason i play klingon.
Two and some change actually since it was cast august of that year. I should know, I linked it in a previous post as well.
I think you're misunderstanding what I've been saying, so I'll clarify that you and I are on the same side here for more Klingon content.
I'm ecstatic that you play Klingon, recruit more so I can get consistent FvK queues. It's hard to do that though since you guys are thin in the content category. It's been acknowledged as a problem and Cryptic has been here and there tossing in more and more for Klingon players. Is it where it should be? Absolutely not, and like I said before, I offer no absolution for Cryptic launching the game that way. And also as I had said prior, I give them credit for recognizing a gap in their game and taking steps to fill in that gap. As is though, their content guys are now spread out amongst several projects. So I'll quote my original post...
It's not hard to believe that would be the case when the team is divided up between several projects for the game instead of all tackling one major element at a time like they would during development before going live. So far they're giving us a Tutorial and some other PvE content which I expect will be of quality given what we've seen in the last couple months. That's not a small task. Not a huge one either, but given the past 5 months where we've seen a pretty gnarly amount of content, tweaks, fixes, and Foundry testing. To do all that and still have the time to dedicate to give the KDF some more content is pretty awesome.
Don't get me wrong, Cryptic isn't get absolution from me for having launched the game in a state of disarray. But I am going to credit them with making the attempt to get it right.
Jack Emmert, proudly, states that STO will be out in two years. He's right when he says that's unheard of for a MMO. It's unheard of because that's an extremely short development cycle since the fluff guys now had about half the time they'd normally have to flesh out all the stuff that would be the mission PvE content of the game, which believe it or not takes up a significant amount of time in a game's development cycle.
So why was such a short development time green-lit? Because they had an engine that they confidently assumed would carry them through and decided they would be able to finish all the game content they wanted to ship with in that time. There's also the Atari fiscal bonus incentive that was out there which I'm fuzzy on.
The person, or people, to point a finger at for the lack of content at launch is whomever decided to use the same engine that Champions is using in order to save on development time and money.
I want more for the Klinks, just like you. We didn't get what we were promised, and I want them to make it right.
While I tend to roll my eyes at the number of "MOAR MISHUNS FOR KLINKS!!!!1!1" threads.. mainly because it has been said over, and over.. and over again, that they are working on making the KDF on a more even standing to the Federation, BUT the Federation will ALWAYS take precedence to any added factions, because that was the main storyline of the entirety of Star Trek.
That being said... The KDF is not, and should not be a PvP Faction ONLY.
To the OP, and those that keep making these threads... take a break.. give them a few months.. maybe even a year. Come back and see where they are ten. To Mr FarsightFrostwhisper, and those that keep trying to demean the KDF, please just stop. They are just as valuable to the story, game, and in all honesty, pocketbook of Cryptic and Atari. You may as well just accept it.
Peace
Are you aware that we did give them more then a year? This has been around since closed beta.
rjc_foxtrot the excuses from them wear extremly thin though dont they, we defo got the thin edge of the wedge on release like they have admitted, the fact remains the out the door feds had enough ships, costumes and missions to go on with, the kdf didnt. what did they decide todo, throw a slew of devs on creating fed ships, fed costumes and diplomacy that wasnt a small undertaking in development was it.
when they created the factions they should have done a better job, they should have made them truly 2 factions. not one faction with dif colours above there heads, any kdf thats hit the bug of zoning to qu'nos and ending up at esd knows exactly why we cant go in the other zones, its because npcs who give out quests cannot tell which side a player is on, they will give quests to anyone that can reach them and talk to them. this is short sighted in the max.
so because of this for nearly a whole year kdf were relegated to 2 zones, eta and neutral zone until they hit lvl 43 and could goto the borg zone. now you factor in that the only thing in those zones still is empty fleet actions (which we didnt even have on launch), dse's in nebulas that you solo unlike fed dse where you join and auto zone with anyone else in your bracket or sometimes the high rankers doing them for accolades so you have social dse's. they have no patrols,they had no planetery exploration like federation, they now have one bank of quests at lt com, another bank of missions at captain. and the undine and borg quests when you get into the borg zones. we have pvp q's that take an age to get into a match. sorties that are fun the 1st 3 times then there just repeatable, we got into the defri zone so we can 'repeat' that content which is fun the 1st few times then its a grind. the same goes for the other features.
we got into the pi zones and what do we have in there, nothing excpet the feature missions, broken dse's and thats it. so they basically gave us 2 blank zones exactly the same as the ones we had that atleast have points to sit and click to join a specific pvp instance. we have kerret that is fun but would you want todo that as your main leveling proccess.
and people wonder why kdf is low on playerbase,i can tell you one thing its defo not short on fanbase.
so the question is why did cryptic feed all that dev time into fed only things like ships costumes etc cos all it did was set the president that federation expect that type of content all the time. any kdf says hey where is our content we get told, just wait they gave you 8 missions already and you have feature stuff like that makes up for a lack of ships through the ranks like science ships, varients that arnt klingon ships cos the orions, lethens and nausicaans are in it, c-store descrimination against the kdf. the list goes on.
People do realize that the Klingons WEREN'T supposed to be a PVP faction right?
At first the Klingon faction was going to equal the Federation...then the change to Cryptic and the pressure Atari put onto Cryptic made the Klingon faction rushed as hell and given a BS PVP faction label to hide the failure. :rolleyes:
I know it'll take years at this rate to make Klingons equal Feds to an extent, but I'm happy some progress is being made.
People do realize that the Klingons WEREN'T supposed to be a PVP faction right?
At first the Klingon faction was going to equal the Federation...then the change to Cryptic and the pressure Atari put onto Cryptic made the Klingon faction rushed as hell and given a BS PVP faction label to hide the failure. :rolleyes:
I know it'll take years at this rate to make Klingons equal Feds to an extent, but I'm happy some progress is being made.
at this rate KDF will never be equal in content because for every 1 KDF update FEDS get 4-8
To the OP, and those that keep making these threads... take a break.. give them a few months.. maybe even a year. Come back and see where they are ten.
I did, for the last 9 months, because of the promises to add a lot more Klingon content back then. yet, here it is, 9 month later and they've still barely scratched the surface. So what i can expect if I take another 9-12 month break? Another 2-3 Klingon story arcs and another set of 3 daily missions, that is really just 2 missions and an extra dialog box to give us bonuses for completing the optional objectives in those other two missions. In that same time find they've added yet another entire system and its related missions to the Federation, such as the Diplomacy system. I say this, because their track record over the last year has been full of a lot of promises that either weren't kept, or that turned into little more than a small bone thrown to a starving dog just to shut it up for a few days, once in a while.
Really, is telling the customers to come back in a year a good idea for any business? No, especially in the case of an MMO, where the majority of those customers pay a monthly subscription, because that's lost revenue for the year they're taking that break. After that long break, most of them are unlikely to return unless they get some free time to see what's changed, such as the free access week Everquest has given on their anniversary every year, which does get some folks to return and try out all the changes. I know this works, because I went back on their 9th anniversary and paid for another 6 months, after taking a 7 year break.
The only reason I even came back to STO after the 9 month break I took, is because I have a lifetime subscription. If I didn't have that's I still wouldn't be back.
Edit: Oh, and if we all did take a break now to wait another year, what incentive would the dev actually have left to make that content? None, because all they'd see from now on is the request from folks playing federation characters.
To Mr FarsightFrostwhisper, and those that keep trying to demean the KDF, please just stop. They are just as valuable to the story, game, and in all honesty, pocketbook of Cryptic and Atari. You may as well just accept it.
Also, telling us to take a break for several month to a year, is really just the same thing you're telling others not to do in this quote. You just worded nicer, but it amounts to just another way of saying, "shut up and go away, we don't want to see this".
i bet i could go on a fed an lvl it to 43 and never touch a pvp match and just do missions, can you do that on kdf without repeating a mission more then 4 times ? that doesnt including doing the features every rank to get the next bis at start of rank.
Are you aware that we did give them more then a year? This has been around since closed beta.
Really? Has it been that long?? :rolleyes:
*** looks at my reg date *** -- *** looks at Serpieri's reg date ***
Yup.. I am completely aware of the time frame thus invested in waiting for the KDF to be fleshed out. I also understand that, as has been stated numerous times, Federation will ALWAYS take precedence over any other faction, period. I also understand that with the implementation of MANY new tech items, KDF items can be, and have been delayed. For both the addition of new tech, and due to things having to be changed, and thus delayed. Again, I also realize that since DStahl has taken lead designer position, many of the promises that were made are being fulfilled.
The point I have been trying to make, unsuccessfully, I suppose, is that they are aware of the communities stance on the KDF (we want it all, and we want it yesterday!!!) That being said, the number of "MOAR KLINK STUFF NAO" threads.. up to and including "threats" against the devs are getting old.
I want the Klingon faction to be in a more completed state. I have always wanted the Klingon faction to be in a more completed state, and have participated in threads stating such since CLOSED BETA, when we were told "it's all good..."
For those posters I suggest taking a break. On the other hand, there are numerous posters, with very well thought out suggestions for the KDF faction that, in my opinion, are a hell of a lot more beneficial than the aforementioned rants/threats/trolls... et cetera.
One last thing... those posters that have complained on the lack of dialog/updates from the devs... The devs are in a no-win situation when it comes to communication. If they are completely transparent with all information they are working on/towards IF there is something tech wise, approval wise, or whatever that either removes the idea, or delays it beyond verbalized (written) dates.. they have hell to pay for breaking promises, or being dishonest. If they give out information like they have been. Piecemeal, but fairly regular, IMO, people complain that we aren't hearing enough, often enough.
I do not envy any of the devs that deal with the forums for that reason.
I did, for the last 9 months, because of the promises to add a lot more Klingon content back then. yet, here it is, 9 month later and they've still barely scratched the surface. So what i can expect if I take another 9-12 month break? Another 2-3 Klingon story arcs and another set of 3 daily missions, that is really just 2 missions and an extra dialog box to give us bonuses for completing the optional objectives in those other two missions. In that same time find they've added yet another entire system and its related missions to the Federation, such as the Diplomacy system. I say this, because their track record over the last year has been full of a lot of promises that either weren't kept, or that turned into little more than a small bone thrown to a starving dog just to shut it up for a few days, once in a while.
Really, is telling the customers to come back in a year a good idea for any business? No, especially in the case of an MMO, where the majority of those customers pay a monthly subscription, because that's lost revenue for the year they're taking that break. After that long break, most of them are unlikely to return unless they get some free time to see what's changed, such as the free access week Everquest has given on their anniversary every year, which does get some folks to return and try out all the changes. I know this works, because I went back on their 9th anniversary and paid for another 6 months, after taking a 7 year break.
The only reason I even came back to STO after the 9 month break I took, is because I have a lifetime subscription. If I didn't have that's I still wouldn't be back.
Edit: Oh, and if we all did take a break now to wait another year, what incentive would the dev actually have left to make that content? None, because all they'd see from now on is the request from folks playing federation characters.
Also, telling us to take a break for several month to a year, is really just the same thing you're telling others not to do in this quote. You just worded nicer, but it amounts to just another way of saying, "shut up and go away, we don't want to see this".
And my point it.. for players that are obviously not happy with Cryptic, their progress on the game, or whatever, why stick around to b*tch? I believe that promised changes to the KDF are coming and have the patience to wait for it. Others, obviously don't. And for those that don't, I feel it better to take a break and come back later, rather than stay, and build anger and resentment that would drive you away in the end regardless. Does that not make sense?
One last thing... those posters that have complained on the lack of dialog/updates from the devs... The devs are in a no-win situation when it comes to communication. If they are completely transparent with all information they are working on/towards IF there is something tech wise, approval wise, or whatever that either removes the idea, or delays it beyond verbalized (written) dates.. they have hell to pay for breaking promises, or being dishonest. If they give out information like they have been. Piecemeal, but fairly regular, IMO, people complain that we aren't hearing enough, often enough.
I do not envy any of the devs that deal with the forums for that reason.
And my point it.. for players that are obviously not happy with Cryptic, their progress on the game, or whatever, why stick around to b*tch? I believe that promised changes to the KDF are coming and have the patience to wait for it. Others, obviously don't. And for those that don't, I feel it better to take a break and come back later, rather than stay, and build anger and resentment that would drive you away in the end regardless. Does that not make sense?
Peace
Doesn't it also make sense that if we leave and are no longer voicing our concerns about the problem and ideas for fixing or at least reducing the problem, then those concerns and ideas will quickly fall so far back into the forum history, that they can be easily forgotten or ignored in favor of those threads still on the first few pages.
As an example, there have been numerous threads about the emblem cost vs c-store cost of Federation ships. I've seen the devs post in several of them giving an answer that's more than just, "I've already responded to this in thread xyz. Please direct all further discussion to that thread", then closing the thread. Yet, most of these threads, that you and others have complained about, have only had moderator posts of warnings and have been locked because one or more anti-Klingon trolls have started forum PvP wars in the thread.
Now, if you look over in the Klingon forums, there's exactly 2 threads the devs have posted in. One of them was for season 3 posted back on November 12th. The other had a dev post as recent as Mar 1st, about a bug they though they fixed with the steal cargo from the freighters dailies. So that's 3 1/2 months between dev posts in the Klingon forums about Klingon issues. I'm not asking for complete transparency, just a more regular response even if it's just to say, "no we can't do that idea" or, "hey, that's a good idea, we'll look into it" or "we weren't aware of that problem and will look into it". Just something to say, "we haven't forgotten about you". Instead we got 3 1/2 months between threads they've responded to, which makes it appear that we were forgotten.
Earlier in the thread you mentioned waiting until after season 4. Did you read the answer to the question in the "Ask Cryptic"? I didn't see anything in those answers about new content. All I saw was adjustments to current content, either from shuffling some of the missions around or hints at remastering some of it. So I hope you can see why some of us are worried that it'll be another six months to a year before we see new Klingon specific content. After all season those answers indicated June for season 4, which is three months from now. So if season 4 doesn't include new content, then it's safe to assume at least 6 months before new content since they won't be able to start on it until season 4 is done.
I've posted many ideas for improving Klingons in several threads, only to see those threads locked for the reasons I previously stated. I try to keep the discussions civil and even to get thread back on tract with discussing ideas to improve the shortcomings, only to be thwarted time and time again by one of the aforementioned trolls who get seem to only be trying to get any thread about Klingons locked, so as to bury our efforts to try to help improve the game.
This is very frustrating. Especially when I keep seeing dev post tags on thread after thread of the same issues over and over, as long as those issues don't involve Klingons. It gets even more frustrating when it's an issue we brought up in the Klingon forums a year ago, but doesn't actually get addressed until it's brought up by someone who played Federation exclusively. Case in point, the mine and fighter spam caused by the latest weekly series. A year ago, we asked for the excessive amount of mines to be dealt with and gave suggestions for how to deal with it. Now that we have the cloaking tractor mines and several Klingons fleets have deployed a lot of them using the highest levels of dispersal pattern skills and multiple launchers, the devs have responded to the problem and hinted at how they might be able to solve this mine spam problem. As for the scorpion fighter spam, apparently they didn't learn their lesson with the carrier's fighter spam from that hanger bug a year ago, otherwise that item would never have been added in the state it was. Instead it would have either been fewer fighters or a much longer cooldown.
In any case, they are looking into ways to deal with the mine spam issue now, but I think this proves my point, that unless it's an issue that Federation characters have to deal with, it takes a long time before its even acknowledged as an issue let alone a possible solution. Yet in a matter of only days of the issue causing problems for Federation character not only was it acknowledged, but a possible solution was being looked at.
I know this was a long winded and possibly repetitious way of saying, "just treat us as equal customers, not better and no worse", but it's very late and I should be in bed already.
The point I have been trying to make, unsuccessfully, I suppose, is that they are aware of the communities stance on the KDF (we want it all, and we want it yesterday!!!) That being said, the number of "MOAR KLINK STUFF NAO" threads.. up to and including "threats" against the devs are getting old.
You don't like to read these threads? Then don't read them then. Stop clicking on these kinds of threads. Problem solved! Free will is a wonderful thing.
For those posters I suggest taking a break. On the other hand, there are numerous posters, with very well thought out suggestions for the KDF faction that, in my opinion, are a hell of a lot more beneficial than the aforementioned rants/threats/trolls... et cetera.
Thank you for your advice. I will however, respectfully of course, decline to take a break at this time.
And I must disagree with your opinion on rant threads and trolls. Cryptic has shown in the past that that is all they respond to. Make a nice polite thread and it gets ignored. Make an insulting rant thread and dstahl is all over responding to your every point.
So now that being the case, if you were trying communicate with the developers, what kind of thread would you make?
One last thing... those posters that have complained on the lack of dialog/updates from the devs... The devs are in a no-win situation when it comes to communication.
I agree with you that they are in a difficult situation. However, they are getting a decent amount of money in return for voluntarily placing themselves into that situation.
Our money.
Money that we've been giving them in return for playing what is essentially an unfinished, beta-quality game.
We are paying customers. When you come to the forums, and see so many of us complaining, you should realize that we're not complaining without reason. And Cryptic has shown us that the only way they will give us what we want is if we continue to complain about it on the forums.
Our asking for more is no less valid or to be expected than the feds asking for more in the many threads that exist and have been in existance since release.
If you do not like that some KDF fans ask and continue to ask, and yet again still ask for more- then do not enter the thread.
Much like some of us never enter into threads where the fedfans ask for more ships, more options, more hair tech, etc.
I'll take a break when all of those fans take a break, and not before.
You don't like to read these threads? Then don't read them then. Stop clicking on these kinds of threads. Problem solved! Free will is a wonderful thing.
Aw, I was about to say that but you beat me to it!
Comments
Speaking as a Klingon player, I don't want that kind of content. I don't want warmed over Fed content. I don't want to go on 'humanitarian' missions. I don't want 'First Contact' missions that are based on the Prime Directive. I have Fed alts. I can do those missions on those toons.
If any of my Klingon generals enter Romulan space, it isn't going to be for scientific investigation of the Hobus supernova, or to bring medical aid to Romulan colonists. Its going to be to capture territory, ships, or weapons for the Empire. Or to gather tactical data to plan such a strike. Or to test defenses.
This means that the current Fed missions need to be substantially rewritten to work as 'real' Klingon content that will be satisfying to Klingon players. Not just reskinned with the text colored red.
so you dont want todo the ghostship chain, or the new link chain or the mirror universe chain and trueway chain.
Im not talking about all fed content,im talking about fed content that has no reason to be fed only especially now when talking about romulan missions due to the things done in the feature episodes.
Not the first dozen that actually deal with the Klingons. All you would need to do is be playing them from the Klingon side of the story.
I would like to see a Klingon version of the whole genetic engineering/Ultimate Klingon plotline. But again, I would want to see it be substantially rewritten to work from a Klingon perspective. Like...going back in time and helping Kang or Koloth rather than Spock. And having it delve more deeply into the Klingon history it brushes over. I wouldn't want to play it on my Klingon toon exactly the way it is on Federation side, no.
And I'd like to see Mirror Universe stuff that involves the MU Klingon Empire more.
Put another way, what Klingon players want is new Klingon content. That means two things, the content has to be 'Klingon' in character, as distinct from Federation, and it has to be 'new'. One of the solid arguments for spending the time to make Klingon content, despite the small size of the faction, is that more new Klingon content will encourage Fed characters to roll Klingon alts and get involved in the faction. If all we have to offer is reskin of the content they've already played, it won't be all that enticing, will it?
well you see spock is double sided, he could and would get kdf to help stop as we are from the future, we would just use the same hologramic tech like in the devidian series.spock does what is best for the timeline and the universe. like helping the romulans.
and yes we need KDF only content but that content we are talking about is pivitol to the KDF.
Edit btw im a KDF player also and i want content that is pivitol the the KDF not just the klingons.
See above post, but just reskinning those episodes, as opposed to rewriting them substantially to delve into the lore from a Klingon perspective:
1) Does nothing to attract Fed players to 'try the other side', since they've played those missions to death already.
2) Creates the illusion that there's more Klingon content than there actually is, discouraging devs from actually working on immersive Klingon content.
3) Doesn't give most Klingon players anything new, since most of us have played at least through those missions on the Fed side.
I see no real positives to reskinning that content. I would enjoy playing through a reworked, Klingon version of those stories, but if Cryptic says that based on the work involved, its just as easy for them to just create completely new Klingon content, I'm perfectly happy with that.
While I tend to roll my eyes at the number of "MOAR MISHUNS FOR KLINKS!!!!1!1" threads.. mainly because it has been said over, and over.. and over again, that they are working on making the KDF on a more even standing to the Federation, BUT the Federation will ALWAYS take precedence to any added factions, because that was the main storyline of the entirety of Star Trek.
That being said... The KDF is not, and should not be a PvP Faction ONLY.
To the OP, and those that keep making these threads... take a break.. give them a few months.. maybe even a year. Come back and see where they are ten. To Mr FarsightFrostwhisper, and those that keep trying to demean the KDF, please just stop. They are just as valuable to the story, game, and in all honesty, pocketbook of Cryptic and Atari. You may as well just accept it.
Peace
Yep, thats great. But even if they do have to re-write them, that would still be quicker than writing a completely new story and building a brand new mission from scratch. The basic story of those missions is sound, and would make sense to have a KDF version.
the positive to them being reskined to work as kdf missions would be the content provided to new players to the kdf, people leveling kdf and create a new interest in people playing and leveling kdf chars
they said that a year ago, peace out to you :cool:
I'm a lifer.. I am in no rush. I know it'll get here when it gets here, and no amount of forum 'trolling' is going to help the situation.
If you are a lifer, I suggest taking a break from the game. Check back after season four and what they've been able to add, or not add as you seem to fear. If you aren't a lifer, stop playing for a while.. same as above. Come back later.
DStahl and the other Dev's are painfully aware of the KDF players that are not happy with the current status of their faction. They've said time and time again, that they are working to add Klingon content as fast as possible. If they aren't working fast enough for you, you have a few choices. Take them at their word and wait (which seems to be the best idea to me,) disregard their statements and rant and rave on the forums (kinda like people are still doing, which seems to not get the desired effect you want) or.. hey... take a break and come back later. Or maybe Cryptic isn't ever going to be the Star Trek creators you want them to be, and you'd save a lot of cash, and headache/heartache if you cut ties now.
I choose to listen to what they say, and give them the time to implement the changes that they can, when they can. I sidetrack myself with alternate characters, daily missions.. episodic content.. and ever so often I go play other games. I don't see the problem with this method. YMMV.
Peace, again
I'm saying you have choices.. all of them, with the exception of leaving permanently is going to require waiting.. because.. hey.. the new KDF content has not been created yet...
With that waiting, you have the choice of ranting and raving, b*tching and moaning, which really doesn't accomplish anything. Or you can wait playing the game, with alts.. or heck, wait for the content while playing other games. Whether or not you come back is up to you, no?
If you are a lifer, you can take as long a break as you want.. as long as the game is alive, you have access. If you are a subber.. stop paying for your account. Save your cash and check on the status of the KDF that way.
Is that clearer?
In January 2008, Perpetual Entertainment ceased production of the game and laid off the entire Star Trek Online development team. Non-code assets of the development [1] [2] were transferred to Cryptic Studios, who have subsequently developed their own title under the same name, but with significantly different game mechanics. [3]
Beta testing was formerly slated to begin in winter of 2007 or spring of 2008 with a tentative launch in early 2009, after the release of the newest film, Star Trek. [4]
I didn't say they [perpetual or any other developer prior to Cryptic working on STO] had created only a game engine in their own development cycle, quite the opposite is what was implied given what I had said about a short development cycle not allowing for the content guys to create a bunch of missions on Cryptic's part. Those teams typically work concurrently so when the guys making the engine have working model, there's already a slough of content to shove into it with an opportunity to create more and then refine that content thanks to the length of a normal development cycle. As it was, Cryptic decided to recycle the Champions engine, use any "Non-code assets" they gained from Perpetual as a start point, and have the majority of their team shove content into the game with what turned out to not be enough time to be able to make enough for both Fed and Klink players. Triage occurred, and Klinks got the short end.
Two and some change actually since it was cast august of that year. I should know, I linked it in a previous post as well.
I think you're misunderstanding what I've been saying, so I'll clarify that you and I are on the same side here for more Klingon content.
I'm ecstatic that you play Klingon, recruit more so I can get consistent FvK queues. It's hard to do that though since you guys are thin in the content category. It's been acknowledged as a problem and Cryptic has been here and there tossing in more and more for Klingon players. Is it where it should be? Absolutely not, and like I said before, I offer no absolution for Cryptic launching the game that way. And also as I had said prior, I give them credit for recognizing a gap in their game and taking steps to fill in that gap. As is though, their content guys are now spread out amongst several projects. So I'll quote my original post...
I want more for the Klinks, just like you. We didn't get what we were promised, and I want them to make it right.
Are you aware that we did give them more then a year? This has been around since closed beta.
I've been saying this since the Klingons got added.
when they created the factions they should have done a better job, they should have made them truly 2 factions. not one faction with dif colours above there heads, any kdf thats hit the bug of zoning to qu'nos and ending up at esd knows exactly why we cant go in the other zones, its because npcs who give out quests cannot tell which side a player is on, they will give quests to anyone that can reach them and talk to them. this is short sighted in the max.
so because of this for nearly a whole year kdf were relegated to 2 zones, eta and neutral zone until they hit lvl 43 and could goto the borg zone. now you factor in that the only thing in those zones still is empty fleet actions (which we didnt even have on launch), dse's in nebulas that you solo unlike fed dse where you join and auto zone with anyone else in your bracket or sometimes the high rankers doing them for accolades so you have social dse's. they have no patrols,they had no planetery exploration like federation, they now have one bank of quests at lt com, another bank of missions at captain. and the undine and borg quests when you get into the borg zones. we have pvp q's that take an age to get into a match. sorties that are fun the 1st 3 times then there just repeatable, we got into the defri zone so we can 'repeat' that content which is fun the 1st few times then its a grind. the same goes for the other features.
we got into the pi zones and what do we have in there, nothing excpet the feature missions, broken dse's and thats it. so they basically gave us 2 blank zones exactly the same as the ones we had that atleast have points to sit and click to join a specific pvp instance. we have kerret that is fun but would you want todo that as your main leveling proccess.
and people wonder why kdf is low on playerbase,i can tell you one thing its defo not short on fanbase.
so the question is why did cryptic feed all that dev time into fed only things like ships costumes etc cos all it did was set the president that federation expect that type of content all the time. any kdf says hey where is our content we get told, just wait they gave you 8 missions already and you have feature stuff like that makes up for a lack of ships through the ranks like science ships, varients that arnt klingon ships cos the orions, lethens and nausicaans are in it, c-store descrimination against the kdf. the list goes on.
At first the Klingon faction was going to equal the Federation...then the change to Cryptic and the pressure Atari put onto Cryptic made the Klingon faction rushed as hell and given a BS PVP faction label to hide the failure. :rolleyes:
I know it'll take years at this rate to make Klingons equal Feds to an extent, but I'm happy some progress is being made.
at this rate KDF will never be equal in content because for every 1 KDF update FEDS get 4-8
I did, for the last 9 months, because of the promises to add a lot more Klingon content back then. yet, here it is, 9 month later and they've still barely scratched the surface. So what i can expect if I take another 9-12 month break? Another 2-3 Klingon story arcs and another set of 3 daily missions, that is really just 2 missions and an extra dialog box to give us bonuses for completing the optional objectives in those other two missions. In that same time find they've added yet another entire system and its related missions to the Federation, such as the Diplomacy system. I say this, because their track record over the last year has been full of a lot of promises that either weren't kept, or that turned into little more than a small bone thrown to a starving dog just to shut it up for a few days, once in a while.
Really, is telling the customers to come back in a year a good idea for any business? No, especially in the case of an MMO, where the majority of those customers pay a monthly subscription, because that's lost revenue for the year they're taking that break. After that long break, most of them are unlikely to return unless they get some free time to see what's changed, such as the free access week Everquest has given on their anniversary every year, which does get some folks to return and try out all the changes. I know this works, because I went back on their 9th anniversary and paid for another 6 months, after taking a 7 year break.
The only reason I even came back to STO after the 9 month break I took, is because I have a lifetime subscription. If I didn't have that's I still wouldn't be back.
Edit: Oh, and if we all did take a break now to wait another year, what incentive would the dev actually have left to make that content? None, because all they'd see from now on is the request from folks playing federation characters.
Also, telling us to take a break for several month to a year, is really just the same thing you're telling others not to do in this quote. You just worded nicer, but it amounts to just another way of saying, "shut up and go away, we don't want to see this".
Hmmm good point
Really? Has it been that long?? :rolleyes:
*** looks at my reg date *** -- *** looks at Serpieri's reg date ***
Yup.. I am completely aware of the time frame thus invested in waiting for the KDF to be fleshed out. I also understand that, as has been stated numerous times, Federation will ALWAYS take precedence over any other faction, period. I also understand that with the implementation of MANY new tech items, KDF items can be, and have been delayed. For both the addition of new tech, and due to things having to be changed, and thus delayed. Again, I also realize that since DStahl has taken lead designer position, many of the promises that were made are being fulfilled.
The point I have been trying to make, unsuccessfully, I suppose, is that they are aware of the communities stance on the KDF (we want it all, and we want it yesterday!!!) That being said, the number of "MOAR KLINK STUFF NAO" threads.. up to and including "threats" against the devs are getting old.
I want the Klingon faction to be in a more completed state. I have always wanted the Klingon faction to be in a more completed state, and have participated in threads stating such since CLOSED BETA, when we were told "it's all good..."
For those posters I suggest taking a break. On the other hand, there are numerous posters, with very well thought out suggestions for the KDF faction that, in my opinion, are a hell of a lot more beneficial than the aforementioned rants/threats/trolls... et cetera.
One last thing... those posters that have complained on the lack of dialog/updates from the devs... The devs are in a no-win situation when it comes to communication. If they are completely transparent with all information they are working on/towards IF there is something tech wise, approval wise, or whatever that either removes the idea, or delays it beyond verbalized (written) dates.. they have hell to pay for breaking promises, or being dishonest. If they give out information like they have been. Piecemeal, but fairly regular, IMO, people complain that we aren't hearing enough, often enough.
I do not envy any of the devs that deal with the forums for that reason.
Peace
And my point it.. for players that are obviously not happy with Cryptic, their progress on the game, or whatever, why stick around to b*tch? I believe that promised changes to the KDF are coming and have the patience to wait for it. Others, obviously don't. And for those that don't, I feel it better to take a break and come back later, rather than stay, and build anger and resentment that would drive you away in the end regardless. Does that not make sense?
Peace
Doesn't it also make sense that if we leave and are no longer voicing our concerns about the problem and ideas for fixing or at least reducing the problem, then those concerns and ideas will quickly fall so far back into the forum history, that they can be easily forgotten or ignored in favor of those threads still on the first few pages.
As an example, there have been numerous threads about the emblem cost vs c-store cost of Federation ships. I've seen the devs post in several of them giving an answer that's more than just, "I've already responded to this in thread xyz. Please direct all further discussion to that thread", then closing the thread. Yet, most of these threads, that you and others have complained about, have only had moderator posts of warnings and have been locked because one or more anti-Klingon trolls have started forum PvP wars in the thread.
Now, if you look over in the Klingon forums, there's exactly 2 threads the devs have posted in. One of them was for season 3 posted back on November 12th. The other had a dev post as recent as Mar 1st, about a bug they though they fixed with the steal cargo from the freighters dailies. So that's 3 1/2 months between dev posts in the Klingon forums about Klingon issues. I'm not asking for complete transparency, just a more regular response even if it's just to say, "no we can't do that idea" or, "hey, that's a good idea, we'll look into it" or "we weren't aware of that problem and will look into it". Just something to say, "we haven't forgotten about you". Instead we got 3 1/2 months between threads they've responded to, which makes it appear that we were forgotten.
Earlier in the thread you mentioned waiting until after season 4. Did you read the answer to the question in the "Ask Cryptic"? I didn't see anything in those answers about new content. All I saw was adjustments to current content, either from shuffling some of the missions around or hints at remastering some of it. So I hope you can see why some of us are worried that it'll be another six months to a year before we see new Klingon specific content. After all season those answers indicated June for season 4, which is three months from now. So if season 4 doesn't include new content, then it's safe to assume at least 6 months before new content since they won't be able to start on it until season 4 is done.
I've posted many ideas for improving Klingons in several threads, only to see those threads locked for the reasons I previously stated. I try to keep the discussions civil and even to get thread back on tract with discussing ideas to improve the shortcomings, only to be thwarted time and time again by one of the aforementioned trolls who get seem to only be trying to get any thread about Klingons locked, so as to bury our efforts to try to help improve the game.
This is very frustrating. Especially when I keep seeing dev post tags on thread after thread of the same issues over and over, as long as those issues don't involve Klingons. It gets even more frustrating when it's an issue we brought up in the Klingon forums a year ago, but doesn't actually get addressed until it's brought up by someone who played Federation exclusively. Case in point, the mine and fighter spam caused by the latest weekly series. A year ago, we asked for the excessive amount of mines to be dealt with and gave suggestions for how to deal with it. Now that we have the cloaking tractor mines and several Klingons fleets have deployed a lot of them using the highest levels of dispersal pattern skills and multiple launchers, the devs have responded to the problem and hinted at how they might be able to solve this mine spam problem. As for the scorpion fighter spam, apparently they didn't learn their lesson with the carrier's fighter spam from that hanger bug a year ago, otherwise that item would never have been added in the state it was. Instead it would have either been fewer fighters or a much longer cooldown.
In any case, they are looking into ways to deal with the mine spam issue now, but I think this proves my point, that unless it's an issue that Federation characters have to deal with, it takes a long time before its even acknowledged as an issue let alone a possible solution. Yet in a matter of only days of the issue causing problems for Federation character not only was it acknowledged, but a possible solution was being looked at.
I know this was a long winded and possibly repetitious way of saying, "just treat us as equal customers, not better and no worse", but it's very late and I should be in bed already.
Thank you for your advice. I will however, respectfully of course, decline to take a break at this time.
And I must disagree with your opinion on rant threads and trolls. Cryptic has shown in the past that that is all they respond to. Make a nice polite thread and it gets ignored. Make an insulting rant thread and dstahl is all over responding to your every point.
So now that being the case, if you were trying communicate with the developers, what kind of thread would you make?
I agree with you that they are in a difficult situation. However, they are getting a decent amount of money in return for voluntarily placing themselves into that situation.
Our money.
Money that we've been giving them in return for playing what is essentially an unfinished, beta-quality game.
We are paying customers. When you come to the forums, and see so many of us complaining, you should realize that we're not complaining without reason. And Cryptic has shown us that the only way they will give us what we want is if we continue to complain about it on the forums.
If you do not like that some KDF fans ask and continue to ask, and yet again still ask for more- then do not enter the thread.
Much like some of us never enter into threads where the fedfans ask for more ships, more options, more hair tech, etc.
I'll take a break when all of those fans take a break, and not before.
Aw, I was about to say that but you beat me to it!
Very much agreed.