There's a difference between "silence because they don't care" and "silence because they haven't locked down exactly what's being done yet and how many resources can be applied to do it". Cryptic is being open with us where they can, and it's honestly refreshing. They work with the playerbase and listen to our feedback, that's fantastic, but they're also trying not to repeat mistakes of the past, especially regarding the Klingon faction.
The absolute one thing that I see Dstahl and co trying to avoid are false promises, something that Dstahl's predecessor fell into giving any time there was criticism of the Klingon faction (personally I highly doubt that he purposely set out to make false promises, but he certainly ended up writing cheques to the klingon playerbase that he couldn't cash). That can sometimes mean silence on an issue until they come up with something firm, just so that it doesn't come back to bite them a few months later when someone says "You promised us this, we don't have it, you guys suck!!!!" when things change due to limited resources, or a better idea coming up.
it can't be "silence because they haven't locked down exactly what's being done yet and how many resources can be applied to do it" because 5 months ago in the state of the game they stated they they plan on doing quite a bit for the kdf.
in 5 months they haven't even locked down a design? A plan?
an it shows how much they care by the dev responses in this and in the kdf forums, things need to change, this game is developed lob sided an its a horrendous way to treat people who pay good money towards cryptic to this game like how diplomatic, ships, c-store etc is made.
This cant be excused as they didnt have enough time like they did when the game was released, these were and are being developed after it was released and as such both sides should have had equal dev time. if 1 fed ship gets created 1 kdf ship gets created, if one c-store costume is made and its not usable by the other faction the other faction gets a costume pack, bridge pack, ship costume.
it can't be "silence because they haven't locked down exactly what's being done yet and how many resources can be applied to do it" because 5 months ago in the state of the game they stated they they plan on doing quite a bit for the kdf.
in 5 months they haven't even locked down a design? A plan?
It's not hard to believe that would be the case when the team is divided up between several projects for the game instead of all tackling one major element at a time like they would during development before going live. So far they're giving us a Tutorial and some other PvE content which I expect will be of quality given what we've seen in the last couple months. That's not a small task. Not a huge one either, but given the past 5 months where we've seen a pretty gnarly amount of content, tweaks, fixes, and Foundry testing. To do all that and still have the time to dedicate to give the KDF some more content is pretty awesome.
Don't get me wrong, Cryptic isn't get absolution from me for having launched the game in a state of disarray. But I am going to credit them with making the attempt to get it right.
Jack Emmert, proudly, states that STO will be out in two years. He's right when he says that's unheard of for a MMO. It's unheard of because that's an extremely short development cycle since the fluff guys now had about half the time they'd normally have to flesh out all the stuff that would be the mission PvE content of the game, which believe it or not takes up a significant amount of time in a game's development cycle.
So why was such a short development time green-lit? Because they had an engine that they confidently assumed would carry them through and decided they would be able to finish all the game content they wanted to ship with in that time. There's also the Atari fiscal bonus incentive that was out there which I'm fuzzy on.
The person, or people, to point a finger at for the lack of content at launch is whomever decided to use the same engine that Champions is using in order to save on development time and money.
For STF's and the like, I have no problems with the Devs making it possible to cross-faction teams.
As for the KDF joining the federation - NO.
As to what has been said is coming in season 4 for the KDF, Dstahl has hinted at it in his most recent interviews.
Yes, we need more content.
Yes, the Devs are bringing more content.
Yes, we were designed as PvP/Monster play in the begining and it was a mistake.
Yes, the Devs are correcting that issue regardless of fed counterwhine.
No, we will never be as "fleshed" out as the Feds - no non-fedfaction every will be.
it can't be "silence because they haven't locked down exactly what's being done yet and how many resources can be applied to do it" because 5 months ago in the state of the game they stated they they plan on doing quite a bit for the kdf.
in 5 months they haven't even locked down a design? A plan?
And unfortunately, to make the argument somewhat circular, plans change. Something comes up which throws everything back up into the air again. An engine limitation, a better idea, edicts from upon high to focus efforts elsewhere, CBS disagreeing with with the whole idea or some element of it, another game by the same company changes business models and the success or failure of that business model means that everything has to be reassessed.
Like it or not, there are many reasons why things can and do go wrong. Why a statement of "We are absolutely going to do this" can change to "Actually, no we're not..." It is why over the past few months that even talking about Fed content (let alone Klingon) the dialogue the Devs use when talking about future content and releases has changed to "We have an idea of when...", "We are hoping..." "This may..." etc. It's just a shame that the Klingon faction is the one most hit by all of these things, though the reasons for that were definitely mentioned in my previous posts.
I'm not going to quote Sh1ngara's post, but I am going to address it here now
I may have missed the posts talking about adding a Klingon tutorial around release, but my own (likely faulty ) memory of the time tells me that there were a lot of posts from the Devs saying that they could make a Klingon tutorial, but that it would be wasted resources to make a Klingon tutorial when the Fed one taught you all you needed to know, and that you had to unlock the Klingons anyway. I admit I could have missed a post or two and could be wrong on that, but atm I don't fancy digging through all those posts from way back then.
However, I do ask that you (and am sure that you have) you read through all of my posts in this thread so you don't get my position wrong. I am absolutely advocating that the Devs spend resources on improving the Klingon faction, I'm am just being realistic on why things are where they are. Cryptic have their reasons on why development for the Klingons is haphazard, and while we don't know all of them, some of those reasons are obvious... and are being used by some players as a reason why all development on Klingons should be stopped, something that I vehemently disagree with.
And unfortunately, to make the argument somewhat circular, plans change. Something comes up which throws everything back up into the air again. An engine limitation, a better idea, edicts from upon high to focus efforts elsewhere, CBS disagreeing with with the whole idea or some element of it, another game by the same company changes business models and the success or failure of that business model means that everything has to be reassessed.
To make my arguement just as circular; this would be a perfect time to show that cryptic's "Openness" isn't just a gimmick. It is a real thing.
All we have to go on is the last State of the Game and engineering reports because that is what they tell us we should go on.
It's not hard to believe that would be the case when the team is divided up between several projects for the game instead of all tackling one major element at a time like they would during development before going live. So far they're giving us a Tutorial and some other PvE content which I expect will be of quality given what we've seen in the last couple months. That's not a small task. Not a huge one either, but given the past 5 months where we've seen a pretty gnarly amount of content, tweaks, fixes, and Foundry testing. To do all that and still have the time to dedicate to give the KDF some more content is pretty awesome.
Don't get me wrong, Cryptic isn't get absolution from me for having launched the game in a state of disarray. But I am going to credit them with making the attempt to get it right.
Jack Emmert, proudly, states that STO will be out in two years. He's right when he says that's unheard of for a MMO. It's unheard of because that's an extremely short development cycle since the fluff guys now had about half the time they'd normally have to flesh out all the stuff that would be the mission PvE content of the game, which believe it or not takes up a significant amount of time in a game's development cycle.
So why was such a short development time green-lit? Because they had an engine that they confidently assumed would carry them through and decided they would be able to finish all the game content they wanted to ship with in that time. There's also the Atari fiscal bonus incentive that was out there which I'm fuzzy on.
The person, or people, to point a finger at for the lack of content at launch is whomever decided to use the same engine that Champions is using in order to save on development time and money.
2 years isnt along time if they were starting from fresh an had just signed contracts. that wasnt the case, another company had started work an decided it wasnt possible in the timeframe so said so, got the ip taken off them and cryptic got it, cryptic have never said how much they actually got or how much of the engine they took out of something else but they defo didnt start with nothing and its not like they didnt have enough cannon to go from, its not like they were making it up from thin air.
because, i guess for me it is this: as much as the feds have more content and devs attention, i can't seem to play them very well in this game.
From an RP point of view: My main character is a joined trill kdf because simply i beleive that I am most definetly on the winning side. Given the choice, I would rather have the opportunity to be with a warrier race in the time of war rather than with a federation of Cat people and all thier other member races who can't pvp to save thier lives and can't seem to finish the Cure.
KDF all the way, buuuut I am bored. Cryptic makes me feel that I should be ashamed at liking what I am liking.
2 years isnt along time if they were starting from fresh an had just signed contracts. that wasnt the case, another company had started work an decided it wasnt possible in the timeframe so said so, got the ip taken off them and cryptic got it, cryptic have never said how much they actually got or how much of the engine they took out of something else but they defo didnt start with nothing and its not like they didnt have enough cannon to go from, its not like they were making it up from thin air.
Having canon available to pull from is great as an inspirational starting point for content creation since STO's story picks up 30 years after Nemesis (22 after the Hobus Nova referenced in the latest Trek film). Indeed, we see quite a bit of stuff come from the past make it's way into the content, the Horta den being the latest example. It would be quite dull though if everything was a rehash from all the prior Trek we've seen on TV and the silver screen, and it isn't. Cryptic has gone and created (with CBS approval here and there) what they believe the Trek universe to be 30 years after Nemesis.
Think about that for a moment, creating lore for 30 years of a very intricate universe that doesn't relate to itself everywhere all the time. Most of it is contained in it's own portions of the galaxy, being their own stories. That's an amazingly dense amount of material to attempt to create in two years time by itself, especially since you now have to make sure you're following all the rules that have been laid out by the already preceding 200-some years of canon that can't be retconned.
So no, Cryptic didn't start with nothing from an inspirational standpoint. But they didn't have any prior material from previous developers to work from (graphics, story, server tech, etc.). They were given a timeline that was really too short from the get go to allow for the game they were promising.
To make my arguement just as circular; this would be a perfect time to show that cryptic's "Openness" isn't just a gimmick. It is a real thing.
All we have to go on is the last State of the Game and engineering reports because that is what they tell us we should go on.
because, i guess for me it is this: as much as the feds have more content and devs attention, i can't seem to play them very well in this game.
From an RP point of view: My main character is a joined trill kdf because simply i beleive that I am most definetly on the winning side. Given the choice, I would rather have the opportunity to be with a warrier race in the time of war rather than with a federation of Cat people and all thier other member races who can't pvp to save thier lives and can't seem to finish the Cure.
KDF all the way, buuuut I am bored. Cryptic makes me feel that I should be ashamed at liking what I am liking.
I can sympathise, definitely. As I've already said, I absolutely advocate more resources being spent on the Klingon faction, while it has definitely improved under Dstahl's reign as EP, the faction is still in a sorry state. But I'm not going to be unrealistic as to why things are the way they are. Am I disappointed with that? Yes, but I understand why. So rather looking at the past I want to look forward and offer my opinions to the devs on how to improve the faction in the future.
Now we've got some interesting stuff coming in the future for the game, the foundry, which will help supplement Klingon content, more featured episodes with one likely within Klingon Territory, the klingon tutorial and Qo'nos revamp... and waaay on the Horizon, the distinct possibility of STO becoming F2P, which in my opinion, could be the real saviour of the Klingon faction, for reasons I've stated in earlier posts.
The future may not be all sunshine and roses for the Klingon faction, but regardless if whether STO goes f2p I still think it's looking better than it did 9 months ago. Call me a hopeless optimist if you like
The way I see it... look to my signature. We were told "Give us 6 months." We did. We have in that time, in terms of Klingon content, not shared,, received a single ship on the c-store, and three ships, and a shuttle...
I was going to make a large post about my disappointment, but in the end just voting with my money, may be a lifetimer, but the c-store will be losing my money.
It's not hard to pump out a lot of mediocre content. I doubt that's what anyone wants though.
Who says it would be "mediocre"? An amateur can create a fun mission in the Foundry in a matter of days, so a professional developer should be able to create an even higher quality mission in the same amount of time or less.
The way I see it... look to my signature. We were told "Give us 6 months." We did. We have in that time, in terms of Klingon content, not shared,, received a single ship on the c-store, and three ships, and a shuttle...
I was going to make a large post about my disappointment, but in the end just voting with my money, may be a lifetimer, but the c-store will be losing my money.
other than your signature i dont remember them ever saying 'give us 6 months'.
if you have the link with them saying they would do a certain amount of stuff in 6 months then im welcome to be proven wrong here.
Riiiiiiiiiiiight.... as other have said, and proved, they are and never were intended to be a pvp faction. You are in the extreme minority... I would wager that you are the only person who thinks the KDF is fine as they are.
On topic (I think): I still hold that Cryptic should just get rid of the silly war-theme between the two factions. You CAN still have skirmishes and wars between the two... we would be allies not buddies and disputes and fights still happen between allies. Getting rid of this flawed reason for pvp would allow the KDF access to more missions. We could have access to the True Way, DS9, Romulan sectors... we could have access to some of the more "random" patrol missions... like the ones involving the Orion Syndicate (orion raiders). All it would take is a little rewording to make them KDF appropriate.
Riiiiiiiiiiiight.... as other have said, and proved, they are and never were intended to be a pvp faction. You are in the extreme minority... I would wager that you are the only person who thinks the KDF is fine as they are.
As much as I wish that were true, it isnt. There are actually alot of people that only care about their own gameplay rather than the game as a whole, and because of that think the Devs shouldnt "waste time" working on the Klingons.
Who says it would be "mediocre"? An amateur can create a fun mission in the Foundry in a matter of days, so a professional developer should be able to create an even higher quality mission in the same amount of time or less.
True, but not quite...
I remember Gozer talking about the foundry on a recent podcast... Can't remember if it was STOked or subspace radio now as he was on both in a very short period of time. While he was talking about his own experiences, I'd imagine that his points would be shared by the other content designers too.
When asked about the foundry, he said that while it is a powerful set of tools, he finds it too limited when compared to the in house mission creation tool Cryptic has. When he's designing missions he would much prefer to use that tool than the foundry. Of course, that has the side effect of making mission production much longer due to the faction that the in house tool has the capability of breaking the game and requires more tweaking and playtesting. I can't remember the exact amount of time he said, but I believe that Gozer quoted a time somewhere within the 3-6 week mark to make a mission similar in quality to EP3 of the Romulan featured episodes from scratch (to be fair, that does include getting new tech, voice over work and mission rewards getting set up).
Of course, that doesn't stop the other non-content Devs from playing about in the foundry, I believe that dstahl has admitted to messing about with it and creating some of the official missions we already play in game with it.
As much as I wish that were true, it isnt. There are actually alot of people that only care about their own gameplay rather than the game as a whole, and because of that think the Devs shouldnt "waste time" working on the Klingons.
Of course, that doesn't stop the other non-content Devs from playing about in the foundry, I believe that dstahl has admitted to messing about with it and creating some of the official missions we already play in game with it.
So aside from all that stuff about Gozer, you agree with my post that you quoted? Speaking of Gozer, it should also be noted that he created the sorties that the KDF got in Season 3, and those could be made in the Foundry.
So aside from all that stuff about Gozer, you agree with my post that you quoted? Speaking of Gozer, it should also be noted that he created the sorties that the KDF got in Season 3, and those could be made in the Foundry.
To put it another way
"What you say is true, but from another point of view..." That other point of view being from one of those professional content designers
Indeed he did, but could they have been made in the foundry of the time? Is it possible now to add optional objectives with time limits? Is it possible to string missions together with a meta objective yet like the optional objective wrapper mission?
If so... awesome... will have to get back onto the foundry and have a look
For STF's and the like, I have no problems with the Devs making it possible to cross-faction teams.
As for the KDF joining the federation - NO.
As to what has been said is coming in season 4 for the KDF, Dstahl has hinted at it in his most recent interviews.
Yes, we need more content.
Yes, the Devs are bringing more content.
Yes, we were designed as PvP/Monster play in the begining and it was a mistake.
Yes, the Devs are correcting that issue regardless of fed counterwhine.
No, we will never be as "fleshed" out as the Feds - no non-fedfaction every will be.
this....FTW....learn it, love it, live it.
and just for giggles i will bring out the dead horse so you all can beat it more....:rolleyes:
it should also be noted that he created the sorties that the KDF got in Season 3, and those could be made in the Foundry.
foundry mission dont give us the 'warp in animation'.
foundry wont give us the optional time limits that come with some missions.
foundry wont let us deactivate forcefields to let freighters escape.
foundry wont let freighters disappear when they reach a maker.
we cant make ships appear after destroying one of the ships regardless of what ship it is.
they probably cant put 30 minute cool down timers on them.
they probably cant link proper xp rewards to a mission.
they probably cant then link the optional components from 6 different missions into a path of the warrior daily.
maybe one day they can do all of that but not yet.
ive probably even missed a few things there why its not that easy to do. they probably want any dev created mission to be of proper quality. not just all the bells and whistles but just the little things that we dont think about. if the foundry suffers a bug for some reason or they need to shut it down for a few days like they have done on tribble then its possible those mission the devs would make with the foundry would also go down.
it might be easier to make dev made missions on the foundry but it wont be anywhere near as good or as polished, even on what are very basic missions.
foundry mission dont give us the 'warp in animation'.
foundry wont give us the optional time limits that come with some missions.
foundry wont let us deactivate forcefields to let freighters escape.
foundry wont let freighters disappear when they reach a maker.
we cant make ships appear after destroying one of the ships regardless of what ship it is.
they probably cant put 30 minute cool down timers on them.
they probably cant link proper xp rewards to a mission.
they probably cant then link the optional components from 6 different missions into a path of the warrior daily.
maybe one day they can do all of that but not yet.
ive probably even missed a few things there why its not that easy to do. they probably want any dev created mission to be of proper quality. not just all the bells and whistles but just the little things that we dont think about. if the foundry suffers a bug for some reason or they need to shut it down for a few days like they have done on tribble then its possible those mission the devs would make with the foundry would also go down.
it might be easier to make dev made missions on the foundry but it wont be anywhere near as good or as polished, even on what are very basic missions.
There is more than one 'foundry'. The one on tribble, and the one on the cryptic test server, and the one on the cryptic development server.
There is more than one 'foundry'. The one on tribble, and the one on the cryptic test server, and the one on the cryptic development server.
well there is only one foundry as such but each sever has a different current build of the foundry.
whilst i obviously dont have access to cryptic's version the one of tribble and redshirt are usually very similar, with red shirt being slightly more up-to-date than tribble. cryptic's own one might be and probably does have an even newer build but it will still be miles behind the tools they use to make official missions. even the simple ones have tricks and things that the foundry just cant do.
but if people want them to make missions using the foundry to speed up development then thats one thing but often cryptic made missions use many features that the foundry is no where near having, or may ever have plus other technical reasons means that they probably wont spend much time making their own foundry missions even if it would be quicker.
i could be wrong and we might see a whole batch of cryptic made foundry missions. im not counting on it though.
Regardless of what the Foundry can or cannot currently do, I'll take 5 well made Klingon faction specific episodes made in the Foundry over ZERO Klingon faction specific episodes made with the official Dev tools. Klingons have not received ANY faction specific episodes since Season 2(note that I said episodes, not missions), and according to Dan's comments more KDF episodes are not even on the schedule YET:
Q: Mirror-Master: Are you planning on designing some additional KDF-only Episodes soon?
A: The KDF will continue to get some love in Season 4. Let met give you a few hints as to what is coming: First, we must allow new players to create a Klingon character as soon as they log into the game for the first time. Forcing players to play through 6 levels of Federation play first was only done because we didn't have time to make a Klingon Tutorial. Next, we need to give Qo'noS the same kind of revamp that we gave ESD - improving the flow and social spaces in the Qo'noS interior. Next, we need to then update all the missions that use the Qo'noS interior. Then we can start to look at the PVE level progression for the KDF and find out where there are big holes and were new episodes should go. So, we have lots of plans for the KDF. We have to start by allowing new players to create Klingons from day 1.
Note all the things he said that have to happen BEFORE Klingons get any new episodes. Just doing all those things is going to take alot of time. So UNTIL they get around to making new KDF episodes with the official Dev tool, I'll take some well made Foundry episodes over nothing.
Regardless of what the Foundry can or cannot currently do, I'll take 5 well made Klingon faction specific episodes made in the Foundry over ZERO Klingon faction specific episodes made with the official Dev tools. Klingons have not received ANY faction specific episodes since Season 2(note that I said episodes, not missions), and according to Dan's comments more KDF episodes are not even on the schedule YET:
Note all the things he said that have to happen BEFORE Klingons get any new episodes. Just doing all those things is going to take alot of time. So UNTIL they get around to making new KDF episodes with the official Dev tool, I'll take some well made Foundry episodes over nothing.
You know... I've just had a rather bizarre idea...
Hey Dan, how about incentivising your employees by doing an in house competition? Make it Cryptic wide, all employees can participate.
Make a Klingon mission using only the foundry (no in house tools Gozer ) and post the 10-20 best onto holodeck with a polish pass like you did with the spotlight missions and offer some sort of prize for the winner, can either put a small sum of cash to one side, or better let us players contribute somehow (either with an actual prize or cash for the prize fund).
Add the conditions that can only be done during their spare time (so it doesn't affect work efficiency) and give them 3-6 weeks or so... as long as a normal mission is estimated to make pretty much and see what comes of it.
I know, odd idea, but I think it could be fun, and if the players can contribute somehow, so much the better
You know... I've just had a rather bizarre idea...
Hey Dan, how about incentivising your employees by doing an in house competition? Make it Cryptic wide, all employees can participate.
Make a Klingon mission using only the foundry (no in house tools Gozer ) and post the 10-20 best onto holodeck with a polish pass like you did with the spotlight missions and offer some sort of prize for the winner, can either put a small sum of cash to one side, or better let us players contribute somehow (either with an actual prize or cash for the prize fund).
Add the conditions that can only be done during their spare time (so it doesn't affect work efficiency) and give them 3-6 weeks or so... as long as a normal mission is estimated to make pretty much and see what comes of it.
I know, odd idea, but I think it could be fun, and if the players can contribute somehow, so much the better
haha. That reminds of about 10 years ago i was developing this massive database application for this team. I kept on saying throughout the development that someone would have to go in and populate the database for the client side. I was a programmer and I wasn't going to do data entry.
About a month before release she said that "it was going to be fun, we would all come in on saturday, have a pizza party, and have a fun time doing the data entry". Nobody showed up and the project, application, and party died.
How does one even access the Foundry in tribble? Never saw the option over the weekend when I looked.
as you log in there are two tabs. one to play with your regular character and one to make a new test character. make them up and then click create content.
Comments
in 5 months they haven't even locked down a design? A plan?
This cant be excused as they didnt have enough time like they did when the game was released, these were and are being developed after it was released and as such both sides should have had equal dev time. if 1 fed ship gets created 1 kdf ship gets created, if one c-store costume is made and its not usable by the other faction the other faction gets a costume pack, bridge pack, ship costume.
It's not hard to believe that would be the case when the team is divided up between several projects for the game instead of all tackling one major element at a time like they would during development before going live. So far they're giving us a Tutorial and some other PvE content which I expect will be of quality given what we've seen in the last couple months. That's not a small task. Not a huge one either, but given the past 5 months where we've seen a pretty gnarly amount of content, tweaks, fixes, and Foundry testing. To do all that and still have the time to dedicate to give the KDF some more content is pretty awesome.
Don't get me wrong, Cryptic isn't get absolution from me for having launched the game in a state of disarray. But I am going to credit them with making the attempt to get it right.
But let's flashback a few years back to 2008.
http://vimeo.com/1504688?pg=embed&sec=1504688
Jack Emmert, proudly, states that STO will be out in two years. He's right when he says that's unheard of for a MMO. It's unheard of because that's an extremely short development cycle since the fluff guys now had about half the time they'd normally have to flesh out all the stuff that would be the mission PvE content of the game, which believe it or not takes up a significant amount of time in a game's development cycle.
So why was such a short development time green-lit? Because they had an engine that they confidently assumed would carry them through and decided they would be able to finish all the game content they wanted to ship with in that time. There's also the Atari fiscal bonus incentive that was out there which I'm fuzzy on.
The person, or people, to point a finger at for the lack of content at launch is whomever decided to use the same engine that Champions is using in order to save on development time and money.
As for the KDF joining the federation - NO.
As to what has been said is coming in season 4 for the KDF, Dstahl has hinted at it in his most recent interviews.
Yes, we need more content.
Yes, the Devs are bringing more content.
Yes, we were designed as PvP/Monster play in the begining and it was a mistake.
Yes, the Devs are correcting that issue regardless of fed counterwhine.
No, we will never be as "fleshed" out as the Feds - no non-fedfaction every will be.
And unfortunately, to make the argument somewhat circular, plans change. Something comes up which throws everything back up into the air again. An engine limitation, a better idea, edicts from upon high to focus efforts elsewhere, CBS disagreeing with with the whole idea or some element of it, another game by the same company changes business models and the success or failure of that business model means that everything has to be reassessed.
Like it or not, there are many reasons why things can and do go wrong. Why a statement of "We are absolutely going to do this" can change to "Actually, no we're not..." It is why over the past few months that even talking about Fed content (let alone Klingon) the dialogue the Devs use when talking about future content and releases has changed to "We have an idea of when...", "We are hoping..." "This may..." etc. It's just a shame that the Klingon faction is the one most hit by all of these things, though the reasons for that were definitely mentioned in my previous posts.
I'm not going to quote Sh1ngara's post, but I am going to address it here now
I may have missed the posts talking about adding a Klingon tutorial around release, but my own (likely faulty
However, I do ask that you (and am sure that you have) you read through all of my posts in this thread so you don't get my position wrong. I am absolutely advocating that the Devs spend resources on improving the Klingon faction, I'm am just being realistic on why things are where they are. Cryptic have their reasons on why development for the Klingons is haphazard, and while we don't know all of them, some of those reasons are obvious... and are being used by some players as a reason why all development on Klingons should be stopped, something that I vehemently disagree with.
To make my arguement just as circular; this would be a perfect time to show that cryptic's "Openness" isn't just a gimmick. It is a real thing.
All we have to go on is the last State of the Game and engineering reports because that is what they tell us we should go on.
2 years isnt along time if they were starting from fresh an had just signed contracts. that wasnt the case, another company had started work an decided it wasnt possible in the timeframe so said so, got the ip taken off them and cryptic got it, cryptic have never said how much they actually got or how much of the engine they took out of something else but they defo didnt start with nothing and its not like they didnt have enough cannon to go from, its not like they were making it up from thin air.
From an RP point of view: My main character is a joined trill kdf because simply i beleive that I am most definetly on the winning side. Given the choice, I would rather have the opportunity to be with a warrier race in the time of war rather than with a federation of Cat people and all thier other member races who can't pvp to save thier lives and can't seem to finish the Cure.
KDF all the way, buuuut I am bored. Cryptic makes me feel that I should be ashamed at liking what I am liking.
http://herocomplex.latimes.com/2008/08/08/star-trek-hits/
They did not take anything from Perpetual.
Having canon available to pull from is great as an inspirational starting point for content creation since STO's story picks up 30 years after Nemesis (22 after the Hobus Nova referenced in the latest Trek film). Indeed, we see quite a bit of stuff come from the past make it's way into the content, the Horta den being the latest example. It would be quite dull though if everything was a rehash from all the prior Trek we've seen on TV and the silver screen, and it isn't. Cryptic has gone and created (with CBS approval here and there) what they believe the Trek universe to be 30 years after Nemesis.
Think about that for a moment, creating lore for 30 years of a very intricate universe that doesn't relate to itself everywhere all the time. Most of it is contained in it's own portions of the galaxy, being their own stories. That's an amazingly dense amount of material to attempt to create in two years time by itself, especially since you now have to make sure you're following all the rules that have been laid out by the already preceding 200-some years of canon that can't be retconned.
So no, Cryptic didn't start with nothing from an inspirational standpoint. But they didn't have any prior material from previous developers to work from (graphics, story, server tech, etc.). They were given a timeline that was really too short from the get go to allow for the game they were promising.
I can sympathise, definitely. As I've already said, I absolutely advocate more resources being spent on the Klingon faction, while it has definitely improved under Dstahl's reign as EP, the faction is still in a sorry state. But I'm not going to be unrealistic as to why things are the way they are. Am I disappointed with that? Yes, but I understand why. So rather looking at the past I want to look forward and offer my opinions to the devs on how to improve the faction in the future.
Now we've got some interesting stuff coming in the future for the game, the foundry, which will help supplement Klingon content, more featured episodes with one likely within Klingon Territory, the klingon tutorial and Qo'nos revamp... and waaay on the Horizon, the distinct possibility of STO becoming F2P, which in my opinion, could be the real saviour of the Klingon faction, for reasons I've stated in earlier posts.
The future may not be all sunshine and roses for the Klingon faction, but regardless if whether STO goes f2p I still think it's looking better than it did 9 months ago. Call me a hopeless optimist if you like
I was going to make a large post about my disappointment, but in the end just voting with my money, may be a lifetimer, but the c-store will be losing my money.
Who says it would be "mediocre"? An amateur can create a fun mission in the Foundry in a matter of days, so a professional developer should be able to create an even higher quality mission in the same amount of time or less.
Oh the irony.
other than your signature i dont remember them ever saying 'give us 6 months'.
if you have the link with them saying they would do a certain amount of stuff in 6 months then im welcome to be proven wrong here.
Riiiiiiiiiiiight.... as other have said, and proved, they are and never were intended to be a pvp faction. You are in the extreme minority... I would wager that you are the only person who thinks the KDF is fine as they are.
On topic (I think): I still hold that Cryptic should just get rid of the silly war-theme between the two factions. You CAN still have skirmishes and wars between the two... we would be allies not buddies and disputes and fights still happen between allies. Getting rid of this flawed reason for pvp would allow the KDF access to more missions. We could have access to the True Way, DS9, Romulan sectors... we could have access to some of the more "random" patrol missions... like the ones involving the Orion Syndicate (orion raiders). All it would take is a little rewording to make them KDF appropriate.
As much as I wish that were true, it isnt. There are actually alot of people that only care about their own gameplay rather than the game as a whole, and because of that think the Devs shouldnt "waste time" working on the Klingons.
True, but not quite...
I remember Gozer talking about the foundry on a recent podcast... Can't remember if it was STOked or subspace radio now as he was on both in a very short period of time. While he was talking about his own experiences, I'd imagine that his points would be shared by the other content designers too.
When asked about the foundry, he said that while it is a powerful set of tools, he finds it too limited when compared to the in house mission creation tool Cryptic has. When he's designing missions he would much prefer to use that tool than the foundry. Of course, that has the side effect of making mission production much longer due to the faction that the in house tool has the capability of breaking the game and requires more tweaking and playtesting. I can't remember the exact amount of time he said, but I believe that Gozer quoted a time somewhere within the 3-6 week mark to make a mission similar in quality to EP3 of the Romulan featured episodes from scratch (to be fair, that does include getting new tech, voice over work and mission rewards getting set up).
Of course, that doesn't stop the other non-content Devs from playing about in the foundry, I believe that dstahl has admitted to messing about with it and creating some of the official missions we already play in game with it.
edit
*sigh* unfortunately quoted for truth
So aside from all that stuff about Gozer, you agree with my post that you quoted? Speaking of Gozer, it should also be noted that he created the sorties that the KDF got in Season 3, and those could be made in the Foundry.
To put it another way
"What you say is true, but from another point of view..." That other point of view being from one of those professional content designers
Indeed he did, but could they have been made in the foundry of the time? Is it possible now to add optional objectives with time limits? Is it possible to string missions together with a meta objective yet like the optional objective wrapper mission?
If so... awesome... will have to get back onto the foundry and have a look
this....FTW....learn it, love it, live it.
and just for giggles i will bring out the dead horse so you all can beat it more....:rolleyes:
foundry mission dont give us the 'warp in animation'.
foundry wont give us the optional time limits that come with some missions.
foundry wont let us deactivate forcefields to let freighters escape.
foundry wont let freighters disappear when they reach a maker.
we cant make ships appear after destroying one of the ships regardless of what ship it is.
they probably cant put 30 minute cool down timers on them.
they probably cant link proper xp rewards to a mission.
they probably cant then link the optional components from 6 different missions into a path of the warrior daily.
maybe one day they can do all of that but not yet.
ive probably even missed a few things there why its not that easy to do. they probably want any dev created mission to be of proper quality. not just all the bells and whistles but just the little things that we dont think about. if the foundry suffers a bug for some reason or they need to shut it down for a few days like they have done on tribble then its possible those mission the devs would make with the foundry would also go down.
it might be easier to make dev made missions on the foundry but it wont be anywhere near as good or as polished, even on what are very basic missions.
There is more than one 'foundry'. The one on tribble, and the one on the cryptic test server, and the one on the cryptic development server.
well there is only one foundry as such but each sever has a different current build of the foundry.
whilst i obviously dont have access to cryptic's version the one of tribble and redshirt are usually very similar, with red shirt being slightly more up-to-date than tribble. cryptic's own one might be and probably does have an even newer build but it will still be miles behind the tools they use to make official missions. even the simple ones have tricks and things that the foundry just cant do.
but if people want them to make missions using the foundry to speed up development then thats one thing but often cryptic made missions use many features that the foundry is no where near having, or may ever have plus other technical reasons means that they probably wont spend much time making their own foundry missions even if it would be quicker.
i could be wrong and we might see a whole batch of cryptic made foundry missions. im not counting on it though.
http://www.startrekonline.com/node/2291
Note all the things he said that have to happen BEFORE Klingons get any new episodes. Just doing all those things is going to take alot of time. So UNTIL they get around to making new KDF episodes with the official Dev tool, I'll take some well made Foundry episodes over nothing.
You know... I've just had a rather bizarre idea...
Hey Dan, how about incentivising your employees by doing an in house competition? Make it Cryptic wide, all employees can participate.
Make a Klingon mission using only the foundry (no in house tools Gozer
Add the conditions that can only be done during their spare time (so it doesn't affect work efficiency) and give them 3-6 weeks or so... as long as a normal mission is estimated to make pretty much and see what comes of it.
I know, odd idea, but I think it could be fun, and if the players can contribute somehow, so much the better
haha. That reminds of about 10 years ago i was developing this massive database application for this team. I kept on saying throughout the development that someone would have to go in and populate the database for the client side. I was a programmer and I wasn't going to do data entry.
About a month before release she said that "it was going to be fun, we would all come in on saturday, have a pizza party, and have a fun time doing the data entry". Nobody showed up and the project, application, and party died.
When you log on, click the "create content" tab, create a new character, and your in the tool.
as you log in there are two tabs. one to play with your regular character and one to make a new test character. make them up and then click create content.
best to watch some of the guides.
http://www.startrekonline.com/foundry