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Cloaked Tractor Mines??

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  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    Most of the time when I get beat its from the frakin escort's that come in with the "Alpha-Stike-Intsa-Pop" maneuver, yeah that takes alot of skill to master. Skill, you want to talk about skill; there is very little skill on display in pvp matches, no one supports their team, everyone seems to be out for themselves, running off willie nillie instead of staying close to thier team mates and helping out. I think most of the whining and crying about the new mines are from players that have had their cheap no skill tactics invalidated.


    I would suggest finding a group that will help support you and vice versa and stay out of the magical land of PuGs. Most pre-mades do everything you say you can't get. The alpha strike is a skill it isn't something that is to be done indiscriminately you have to see the opportunity and then execute. The whining and crying you so eloquently put it is about the fact that the TB mines makes it exponentially more difficult for a lower skill PvPer to enjoy PvP and therefore willing to put in the time to get better because the overall gimmickry of what so many will use and abuse in PvP
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    Sisko_197 wrote: »
    Really? I can't say what I want to say because I'll be banned again. Fix it. There should also be a cap on ALL mines.

    The mines are great. What don' t you like about them?
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    The mines are great. What don' t you like about them?
    Yep !
    Don't touch the mines :cool:
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    Honestly, I don't see the big deal. This is a great get away trick for birds of prey or escorts. Being hunted, drop the mines and run like hell.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    These mines are a horrible thing.

    Please see one of the various other threads for all of the reasons one, or just try a few Arenas/Cap N Holds.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    mvs5191 wrote: »
    These mines are a horrible thing.

    Please see one of the various other threads for all of the reasons one, or just try a few Arenas/Cap N Holds.

    What make them hobbile besides them making you think?
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    you guys are being a bunch of cry babies.... instead of carrying 3 versions of cannon rapid fire and so you can make pvp not fun.... ditch one and carry 1 version of fire at will... all done case closed...

    Perhaps pvp woudn't be a total five second squashfest anymore... and we can have some engaging battles. Perhaps I can fly my cruiser around without having to repair an entire shield quadrant that had been brought down in one pass every 3 seconds.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    What make them hobbile besides them making you think?

    1) More spam. PvPers have been saying forever and a day that spam is ruining PvP.
    2) They're not unique. People can load up on multiple copies of them.
    3) Current anti-Tractor abilities don't have nearly enough uptime to combat with the sheer amount of mines.
    4) This severely dampens the "Hit and Run" tactic that many people (especially in Defiant-Rs) use.
    5) It's hurting Klingon's ability to cloak.
    6) It's hard to deal with all of these mines as it is, cloaked ones are harder.
    • PSW's range is 3KM. The Tractor's is 5KM.
    • TBR isn't reliable, due to the high amount of other targets it can (and will) hit instead.
    • Gravity Well's radius isn't large enough.
    • To make things short, you need to make MASSIVE compromises to your build to combat them.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    biglcny wrote: »
    you guys are being a bunch of cry babies.... instead of carrying 3 versions of cannon rapid fire and so you can make pvp not fun.... ditch one and carry 1 version of fire at will... all done case closed...

    Perhaps pvp woudn't be a total five second squashfest anymore... and we can have some engaging battles. Perhaps I can fly my cruiser around without having to repair an entire shield quadrant that had been brought down in one pass every 3 seconds.

    No ship carries 3 copies of CRF. If you are tired of getting a shield quadrant removed then maybe it is your build. Engaging battles are the norm if you are in a good group.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    mvs5191 wrote: »
    1) More spam. PvPers have been saying forever and a day that spam is ruining PvP.
    2) They're not unique. People can load up on multiple copies of them.
    3) Current anti-Tractor abilities don't have nearly enough uptime to combat with the sheer amount of mines.
    4) This severely dampens the "Hit and Run" tactic that many people (especially in Defiant-Rs) use.
    5) It's hurting Klingon's ability to cloak.
    6) It's hard to deal with all of these mines as it is, cloaked ones are harder.
    • PSW's range is 3KM. The Tractor's is 5KM.
    • TBR isn't reliable, due to the high amount of other targets it can (and will) hit instead.
    • Gravity Well's radius isn't large enough.
    • To make things short, you need to make MASSIVE compromises to your build to combat them.

    here are my answers to your 6 points:
    1: OHH BOHO......... Simple soultuin go into your game option and change what you get for targetting data. There a option were when you target stuff it will only lock on to players instead of the other stuff.

    2: WAAAAAAAAAAAAAA. if people have more then one set of these on there ships that mean they are going to pump out alot less DPS. So let them.

    3: once again waaaa there are other abilties you can use to get rid of the mines Eject Warp Plasma, Tractor Beam Replusor. Gravity Well any ability that does AoE will work

    4: Ohh boo hoo people are going have to rethink their tatics get over it

    5: Look at number 4

    6: Its not that hard if you would stop whinning and use your head
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    biglcny wrote: »
    Perhaps pvp woudn't be a total five second squashfest anymore... and we can have some engaging battles. Perhaps I can fly my cruiser around without having to repair an entire shield quadrant that had been brought down in one pass every 3 seconds.

    If you're flying a Cruiser in PvP and you actually get a shield facing taken down by an Escort in one pass you're doing it wrong.

    I actually suspect this post was a clever attempt at trolling though. Nobody can possibly be so clueless about how to play, surely?

    Anyway solution to this argument:

    All the carebears/casuals here saying "U ALL QQING THEY EASY TO DEAL WITH", get a 5-man team together of yourselves.

    The PvP Community will get a 5-man team of its best mine-spammers.

    We'll play an Arena challenge match. Then we'll see how well your imaginary "easy to adapt" tactics work, huh?

    Srsly, start putting your names forward for the teams. If you think you're right, put your money where your mouth is. Come face a hardcore mine spamming team, see how you fare with your new tactics. If you're right, the PvPers will shut up.

    Deal?
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    here are my answers to your 6 points:
    1: OHH BOHO......... Simple soultuin go into your game option and change what you get for targetting data. There a option were when you target stuff it will only lock on to players instead of the other stuff.

    2: WAAAAAAAAAAAAAA. if people have more then one set of these on there ships that mean they are going to pump out alot less DPS. So let them.

    3: once again waaaa there are other abilties you can use to get rid of the mines Eject Warp Plasma, Tractor Beam Replusor. Gravity Well any ability that does AoE will work

    4: Ohh boo hoo people are going have to rethink their tatics get over it

    5: Look at number 4

    6: Its not that hard if you would stop whinning and use your head

    Please I hope you come across these groups or players that have 2-3 mine launchers on autofire and you can't even destroy them fast enough or you spend more time clearing junk instead of shooting at the ACTUAL enemy.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    here are my answers to your 6 points:
    1: OHH BOHO......... Simple soultuin go into your game option and change what you get for targetting data. There a option were when you target stuff it will only lock on to players instead of the other stuff.

    2: WAAAAAAAAAAAAAA. if people have more then one set of these on there ships that mean they are going to pump out alot less DPS. So let them.

    3: once again waaaa there are other abilties you can use to get rid of the mines Eject Warp Plasma, Tractor Beam Replusor. Gravity Well any ability that does AoE will work

    4: Ohh boo hoo people are going have to rethink their tatics get over it

    5: Look at number 4

    6: Its not that hard if you would stop whinning and use your head


    I just wish I knew who you were so you could show us how its done Cpt. Kirk.... :rolleyes:
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    Please I hope you come across these groups or players that have 2-3 mine launchers on autofire and you can't even destroy them fast enough or you spend more time clearing junk instead of shooting at the ACTUAL enemy.


    I have its no big deal it just made me rethink my tatics. Guss what thats ok though it was fun. So i stand by my saying BOOH Fing HOOO get over it
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    MajorFury wrote: »
    I just wish I knew who you were so you could show us how its done Cpt. Kirk.... :rolleyes:


    :eek: Set phasers to damnnnnn
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    here are my answers to your 6 points:
    1: OHH BOHO......... Simple soultuin go into your game option and change what you get for targetting data. There a option were when you target stuff it will only lock on to players instead of the other stuff.

    2: WAAAAAAAAAAAAAA. if people have more then one set of these on there ships that mean they are going to pump out alot less DPS. So let them.

    3: once again waaaa there are other abilties you can use to get rid of the mines Eject Warp Plasma, Tractor Beam Replusor. Gravity Well any ability that does AoE will work

    4: Ohh boo hoo people are going have to rethink their tatics get over it

    5: Look at number 4

    6: Its not that hard if you would stop whinning and use your head

    :rolleyes: Look, I'm no n00b PvPer. Far from the best, but I know what I'm doing.

    1) You don't think people haven't already done that?
    2) 2x Mines on the back of Escorts is nothing new, a lot of people do that. Indirectly, it'll add to their overall DPS since your defense bonus gets axed to -15%. Healers are also having harder time getting to the people that need healed.
    3) Eject Warp Plasma. Nowhere near enough uptime, and no Cruiser is able to maneuver themselves to take out all of the mines. I've already addressed TBR. Between other mines, Scorpion Fighters, Photonics, Fleet Support, Tal'Kyrs, etc, it's not going to hit all of the mines. And it messes with allied Cannon-wielding ships attack strategies. Gravity Well isn't going to do squat for the mines that aren't in it's small sphere of influence. Photonic Shockwave's radius is only 3KM. FAW won't hit cloaked targets.
    4) Please see my post here regarding build and tactic changes.
    6) Like I said, I'm no n00b. I know what I'm doing. I've tried multiple different builds, as have others.

    Like I've said before, if a LOT of veteran PvPers are saying the same thing, then there's got to be something behind what we're saying. We're not lazy idiots who are completely dead against any changes and maintaining our builds until the end. Where there's smoke, there's fire.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    I have its no big deal it just made me rethink my tatics. Guss what thats ok though it was fun. So i stand by my saying BOOH Fing HOOO get over it

    Please provide a link Mr. Professor of PvP
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    mvs5191 wrote: »
    :rolleyes: Look, I'm no n00b PvPer. Far from the best, but I know what I'm doing.

    1) You don't think people haven't already done that?
    2) 2x Mines on the back of Escorts is nothing new, a lot of people do that. Indirectly, it'll add to their overall DPS since your defense bonus gets axed to -15%. Healers are also having harder time getting to the people that need healed.
    3) Eject Warp Plasma. Nowhere near enough uptime, and no Cruiser is able to maneuver themselves to take out all of the mines. I've already addressed TBR. Between other mines, Scorpion Fighters, Photonics, Fleet Support, Tal'Kyrs, etc, it's not going to hit all of the mines. And it messes with allied Cannon-wielding ships attack strategies. Gravity Well isn't going to do squat for the mines that aren't in it's small sphere of influence. Photonic Shockwave's radius is only 3KM. FAW won't hit cloaked targets.
    4) Please see my post here regarding build and tactic changes.
    6) Like I said, I'm no n00b. I know what I'm doing. I've tried multiple different builds, as have others.

    Like I've said before, if a LOT of veteran PvPers are saying the same thing, then there's got to be something behind what we're saying. We're not lazy idiots who are completely dead against any changes and maintaining our builds until the end. Where there's smoke, there's fire.

    Meh it sounds more like alot of crying
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    Have you tried scrambled sensors I believe it works on the pve ones that the roms fire at ya?
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    Meh it sounds more like alot of crying

    It's not crying if a lot of the community is united against something.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    all this fuss over mines. I thought people would be in an uproar about giving everyone a tss 3. But i guess everyone has to have there moment of nerf crying right? Even these so called veteran pvpers.

    Mines people, you're crying over mines.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    There are so many counters to both the mines and the debuff it places on you.

    Give it time: in a week, people are going to go back to higher DPS instead of sacrificing it for something so easily countered on two levels.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    LOL! :D

    If you can't handle mines in PvP then you deserve to get your a** handed to you on a plate. :p
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    mvs5191 wrote: »
    It's not crying if a lot of the community is united against something.

    I know you are all ****ed but to say a lot of the community is against is not true a small group yes a lot no
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    Matunus wrote:
    I know you are all ****ed but to say a lot of the community is against is not true a small group yes a lot no

    A lot of the PvP community, that would be the community that holds PvP higher then PvE for the challenge factor. That community is the same one that had brought the broken nature BFaW and CSV, and the tactical player resistance bug to the forefront.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    Being beat because you were beat by a better player is one thing.

    ...And...
    Neither I have no problem with the mines from where I stand I have a problem with the mines for anyone new and willing to try PvP and has their TRIBBLE handed to them by the better PvPers that already know how to counter and work around them.

    So according to your own post they can be countered, and these newbs are losing because their enemies are better and know how to counter these things.

    There's no difference, and thus taking the mines out would have zero effect.

    Is there an actual problem with the tractor mines? Probably (I'd personally say yes), but it's not driving off the newbs. Everything else about PvP already does that.

    To be frank the only way to fix PvP for newbs would be a fundamental change, slowing the combat, making abilities less all-important, removing stacking pretty much entirely (in both abilities and consoles) and basically dumbing it down. Of course, these changes aren't likely to go over well with the established PvP crowd considering that most of the suggestions put forward by them involved wanting faster combat, and things like persistent damage which are just going to make things worse on new players.

    The real problem I see with these new mines is their effect on cloaking, and of course general spam which these don't add to at all (despite being new, and thus the FotM, they don't offer any new opportunities for spam that the old ones didn't), they're merely associated with it. If they fix the issues with cloaking, and put a cap on the amount of "pets" any one player can have (including mines, scorpions, photonics and deployables, all under the same count) then these tractor mines would probably work fine... but if they do crush pets like that the Carrier crowd will mess themselves.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    [...] photonics[...]
    You want nerf again the Sci ?
    We can nerf Tac & Eng too in this way.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    Foss wrote: »
    You want nerf again the Sci ?
    We can nerf Tac & Eng too in this way.

    Having the photonic fleet factored into the total number of pets. Have a solid cap number on each player. Considering that the Photonics are better than most deployables, it's hardly a nerf.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    This post has been edited to remove content which violates the [URL=" http://forums.startrekonline.com/announcement.php?f=70&a=2"]Cryptic Studios Forum Usage Guidelines[/URL] ~InfoNinja
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    Sisko_197 wrote: »
    [...] photonic fleets, etc... These deployable options are overused and abused.[...].

    You want nerf Sci again ?
    It's a Sci skill, and what ?

    We can nerf escorter DMG & cruiser HULL ?
    NO ?
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