The same is true of professional athletes, and that isnt slavery.
You ever seen a sports team change their players skin color?
Or Reduce/increase their height by a foot or two? I'd say something about cup size but that might have happened....
The point is at some point you need to accept that its game, and chill about it .
I enjoy tribble breading and I'm looking forward to Horta Breading (Though horta make me slightly ill) and I think it will be awesome. But Lets not call an Apple an Orange.
I hate to say,but I kinda see what's being said here.
Okay, yes, having them as 'attack pets' is no worse your BOs, that makes sense.
But having them /breed/? To make /better/ Horta? That are more effective at hurting things? Sentient beings? That's a pretty atrocious concept for a Star Trek game, particularly considering the message of 'Devil in the Dark' was 'don't assume the Horta are monsters or animals just because they look strange to us'.
Hell, they were killing all those miners to /protect their young/! Was that just so Starfleet could turn them into genetically superior warriors?
if you got a twisted skant because the horta aren't going to be bridge officers, sorry, they just aren't designed to be shown that way. How would one hold a rifle or wear armor? or use a control panel on ship?
Please to be developing some other excuse against Horta taking their rightful place in Starfleet as Bridge Officers (or as a playable species) as this particular excuse is tired and frazzled and it's feet hurt and it never worked anyway.
The only thing preventing Horta from being incorporated properly into this game as members of the Federation and as Starfleet officers is a lack of willingness on the part of the devs to come up with a cool way to do it. That's it, and that's all. This notion of Horta as 'pets' is a compromise, the throwing of the proverbial bone. And the idea of using them as 'attack pets' like Klingon targs is... well, I'll say it again, maybe it didn't get through last time due to subspace interference: "Sit, Speelk, sit. Good Vulcan."
Seriously, you guys, instead of continually thinking up reasons AGAINST incorporating Horta into the game, how about offering helpful suggestions on how to actually pull it off. Maybe you - yes, you - will be the one whose wonderful suggestion will inspire the devs into attaining dazzling heights of dev-ine greatness rarely seen in these dark times.
That's my challenge to you. And you. Yes, even you. Don't think I forgot you! And you, back there behind the bulkhead, you, too!
FREE THE HORTA!
/e sings "Bo-o-orn Fre-e-e-e-e! As free as the rocks roll! As free as the lava flows! Born free to tunnel through sto-o-o-one!"
Please to be developing some other excuse against Horta taking their rightful place in Starfleet as Bridge Officers (or as a playable species) as this particular excuse is tired and frazzled and it's feet hurt and it never worked anyway.
The only thing preventing Horta from being incorporated properly into this game as members of the Federation and as Starfleet officers is a lack of willingness on the part of the devs to come up with a cool way to do it. That's it, and that's all. This notion of Horta as 'pets' is a compromise, the throwing of the proverbial bone. And the idea of using them as 'attack pets' like Klingon targs is... well, I'll say it again, maybe it didn't get through last time due to subspace interference: "Sit, Speelk, sit. Good Vulcan."
Seriously, you guys, instead of continually thinking up reasons AGAINST incorporating Horta into the game, how about offering helpful suggestions on how to actually pull it off. Maybe you - yes, you - will be the one whose wonderful suggestion will inspire the devs into attaining dazzling heights of dev-ine greatness rarely seen in these dark times.
That's my challenge to you. And you. Yes, even you. Don't think I forgot you! And you, back there behind the bulkhead, you, too!
FREE THE HORTA!
/e sings "Bo-o-orn Fre-e-e-e-e! As free as the rocks roll! As free as the lava flows! Born free to tunnel through sto-o-o-one!"
Ok, here's a mirror. the challenge is to you. take a species with no tool using limbs of any kind with a method of travel that doubles as a digestive process. with a thought process that has been shown to not translate well into humanoid frames of references ( No Kill I ) with no real method of communication without telepathic contact or burning messages into stone. How do you take a species like this and have them work along side "normal" members of the crew
Again there is references to nonhumanoid crew members in "hard" canon, le forge offers to show a vistor the Dolphin crew members area of the ship.
I have no issues with horta serving on starships. One of my captains has Horta Geological scientist on board...he doesn't come down to fight with me. he doesn't sit on the bridge. he has a lab elsewhere on the ship suited to his needs.
any "pet" (look quotes! that means it's not a ACTUALLY a pet but how the game will class it) horta I get will be treated the same way in my RP....either it never happened because it doesn't fit the ship or captain I have or they will be mentioned off hand as new members of the crew during rp with friends and fleetmates
Food for thought, the BOFFs we use already, mechanics behind them is the exact same (or close enough) to how other games run PETS....
Again there is references to nonhumanoid crew members in "hard" canon, le forge offers to show a vistor the Dolphin crew members area of the ship.
There's also that crew member Bashir kept talking about "budding" litters of children... Some of his comments sounded like they might be pretty offensive if you happened to be a jellyfish or plant or whatever that guy was. So there's also references in hard canon to non humanoid crew members being made the subject of rather unkind jokes behind their backs and not seen on equal standing with "normal" crew.
As to what you said about Horta, the description text of the hatchling implies that it chose to join your ship. It's not a pet the way a targ pup is, it's there of its own accord and plans to leave eventually (just "eventually" is a different matter to a species that lives longer than some civilizations). Existing as a non combat "pet" can be dismissed by the fact that it's not fully grown, and may lack most of its adult capabilities.
Also, all the stuff people are saying about "breeding" horta is speculation, the dev quote comparing them to tribbles specifically said "Tribble training" not " Tribble breeding." We don't train tribbles, so the comparison sounds a lot less literal than some people are taking it.
I'm assuming by the comparison to both training and crafting that the process will be something along the lines of raising a horta hatchling into a specialized adult. Maybe providing them with specific ore depending on the end result - if a "recipe" takes 30 magnecite ore and a horta hatchling and produces and adult magnecite horta, there's parallels with tribble breeding and crafting, but it's not really crafting or breeding.
Don't think of it as breeding them. Did anyone try taking another Baby Hatchling when re-running Mine Enemy?
I kinda wonder if the Baby Hatchling isn't part of the "schematic requirements" and we don't just craft their outer shell or otherwise nurture them with some specific types of chemicals to adjust their shell and chemical discharges...
Like how McCoy essentially spackled the injured Horta...
I'm hoping this is a precursor to Targ breeding...
There's also that crew member Bashir kept talking about "budding" litters of children... Some of his comments sounded like they might be pretty offensive if you happened to be a jellyfish or plant or whatever that guy was. So there's also references in hard canon to non humanoid crew members being made the subject of rather unkind jokes behind their backs and not seen on equal standing with "normal" crew.
I avoided DS9 for a while due to what my friends would say about the story. but I recently watched the entirety of DS9 and I remember the mentions of this LT that Bashir would mention. now I didn't see any thing other then good nature teasing about how the Lt would need larger quarters soon. it would be similar to teasing O'brien about needing bigger quarters if he started having more kids. the tone and facial expressions on Bashir and Dax implied to me that it was not meant to be cruel or unkind
Ok, here's a mirror. the challenge is to you. take a species with no tool using limbs of any kind with a method of travel that doubles as a digestive process. with a thought process that has been shown to not translate well into humanoid frames of references ( No Kill I ) with no real method of communication without telepathic contact or burning messages into stone. How do you take a species like this and have them work along side "normal" members of the crew.
It's already been done in Star Trek novels and comics. How was it done? Look it up for yourself. Or don't. Here, I'll even offer a helpful link to get you started on your journey to knowledge.
Comments
You ever seen a sports team change their players skin color?
Or Reduce/increase their height by a foot or two? I'd say something about cup size but that might have happened....
The point is at some point you need to accept that its game, and chill about it
I enjoy tribble breading and I'm looking forward to Horta Breading (Though horta make me slightly ill) and I think it will be awesome. But Lets not call an Apple an Orange.
Okay, yes, having them as 'attack pets' is no worse your BOs, that makes sense.
But having them /breed/? To make /better/ Horta? That are more effective at hurting things? Sentient beings? That's a pretty atrocious concept for a Star Trek game, particularly considering the message of 'Devil in the Dark' was 'don't assume the Horta are monsters or animals just because they look strange to us'.
Hell, they were killing all those miners to /protect their young/! Was that just so Starfleet could turn them into genetically superior warriors?
Hmmm, now /there's/ a familiar concept...
I didnt include that in the part I quoted
Please to be developing some other excuse against Horta taking their rightful place in Starfleet as Bridge Officers (or as a playable species) as this particular excuse is tired and frazzled and it's feet hurt and it never worked anyway.
The only thing preventing Horta from being incorporated properly into this game as members of the Federation and as Starfleet officers is a lack of willingness on the part of the devs to come up with a cool way to do it. That's it, and that's all. This notion of Horta as 'pets' is a compromise, the throwing of the proverbial bone. And the idea of using them as 'attack pets' like Klingon targs is... well, I'll say it again, maybe it didn't get through last time due to subspace interference: "Sit, Speelk, sit. Good Vulcan."
Seriously, you guys, instead of continually thinking up reasons AGAINST incorporating Horta into the game, how about offering helpful suggestions on how to actually pull it off. Maybe you - yes, you - will be the one whose wonderful suggestion will inspire the devs into attaining dazzling heights of dev-ine greatness rarely seen in these dark times.
That's my challenge to you. And you. Yes, even you. Don't think I forgot you! And you, back there behind the bulkhead, you, too!
FREE THE HORTA!
/e sings "Bo-o-orn Fre-e-e-e-e! As free as the rocks roll! As free as the lava flows! Born free to tunnel through sto-o-o-one!"
Ok, here's a mirror. the challenge is to you. take a species with no tool using limbs of any kind with a method of travel that doubles as a digestive process. with a thought process that has been shown to not translate well into humanoid frames of references ( No Kill I ) with no real method of communication without telepathic contact or burning messages into stone. How do you take a species like this and have them work along side "normal" members of the crew
Again there is references to nonhumanoid crew members in "hard" canon, le forge offers to show a vistor the Dolphin crew members area of the ship.
I have no issues with horta serving on starships. One of my captains has Horta Geological scientist on board...he doesn't come down to fight with me. he doesn't sit on the bridge. he has a lab elsewhere on the ship suited to his needs.
any "pet" (look quotes! that means it's not a ACTUALLY a pet but how the game will class it) horta I get will be treated the same way in my RP....either it never happened because it doesn't fit the ship or captain I have or they will be mentioned off hand as new members of the crew during rp with friends and fleetmates
Food for thought, the BOFFs we use already, mechanics behind them is the exact same (or close enough) to how other games run PETS....
There's also that crew member Bashir kept talking about "budding" litters of children... Some of his comments sounded like they might be pretty offensive if you happened to be a jellyfish or plant or whatever that guy was. So there's also references in hard canon to non humanoid crew members being made the subject of rather unkind jokes behind their backs and not seen on equal standing with "normal" crew.
As to what you said about Horta, the description text of the hatchling implies that it chose to join your ship. It's not a pet the way a targ pup is, it's there of its own accord and plans to leave eventually (just "eventually" is a different matter to a species that lives longer than some civilizations). Existing as a non combat "pet" can be dismissed by the fact that it's not fully grown, and may lack most of its adult capabilities.
Also, all the stuff people are saying about "breeding" horta is speculation, the dev quote comparing them to tribbles specifically said "Tribble training" not " Tribble breeding." We don't train tribbles, so the comparison sounds a lot less literal than some people are taking it.
I'm assuming by the comparison to both training and crafting that the process will be something along the lines of raising a horta hatchling into a specialized adult. Maybe providing them with specific ore depending on the end result - if a "recipe" takes 30 magnecite ore and a horta hatchling and produces and adult magnecite horta, there's parallels with tribble breeding and crafting, but it's not really crafting or breeding.
I kinda wonder if the Baby Hatchling isn't part of the "schematic requirements" and we don't just craft their outer shell or otherwise nurture them with some specific types of chemicals to adjust their shell and chemical discharges...
Like how McCoy essentially spackled the injured Horta...
I'm hoping this is a precursor to Targ breeding...
I avoided DS9 for a while due to what my friends would say about the story. but I recently watched the entirety of DS9 and I remember the mentions of this LT that Bashir would mention. now I didn't see any thing other then good nature teasing about how the Lt would need larger quarters soon. it would be similar to teasing O'brien about needing bigger quarters if he started having more kids. the tone and facial expressions on Bashir and Dax implied to me that it was not meant to be cruel or unkind
It's already been done in Star Trek novels and comics. How was it done? Look it up for yourself. Or don't. Here, I'll even offer a helpful link to get you started on your journey to knowledge.
http://memory-alpha.org/wiki/Horta
FREE THE HORTA!
Edit: I believe my tone here is perhaps a bit too cantankerous. My apologies.
Here is the answer.
And this discussion again gets hilarious.