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Apples, oranges, cheaters, and other musings

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  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    Roach wrote: »
    What imbalance?
    What vessel is so heavily handicapped or under supported as to be imbalanced when stacked against the others?
    What class is so over-the-top in capability that it is the obviuos advantageous class to play?
    Is it the Cruiser, in that a cruiser can tank very well and survive hellish onslaughts of firepower?
    Is it the Escort, in that a escort can deliver devastating damage when used by a competant player?
    Is it the Science, whom can shutdown, stun or otherwise delay your vessel in an deluge of crowd control?

    I hear complaining but see little evidence to what specifically is the issue that you have problems with.
    Enlighten me and others in this thread.

    My friend you amaze me with yer logic.....and infinate wisdom......


    ALL HAIL ROACH (brings the master his ceptor and kingly garb)
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    castogere wrote: »
    My friend you amaze me with yer logic.....and infinate wisdom......


    ALL HAIL ROACH (brings the master his ceptor and kingly garb)

    Huh? Did I spout something worthwhile? I wasn't paying attention.:p

    No seriuosly, the change in seasons is flairing up my migrane so I'm truelly half-here and assumed I can only half-make sense.
    Thanks though. A drink, a Painkiller (legally prescribed) and a nice quiet spot to contemplate the fall of the federation is all I need.:)


    All perceptions of balance are clouded by our own egoes and experience under fire. So when the majority says there is no balance issue as a whole then I tend to believe it based on my own experiences in combat.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    MagnumStar wrote:
    its not just ground, ship devices can be spammed too as well as BO abilities. And there are other means of cheating in space I cant go into on the forums to prevent idiots from using them. So i appologize for the lack of detail. Anyway look for any devices or abilities being used rapidly, if you played the game any time at all you know someone can't use a ship shield recharge and use again a sec later. Im talking within a couple secs or less of using device or ability. Once you seee these cheats being used you'll start wondering about some of the other fantastic abilities your opponent has. There's a good chance if theyre using one cheat they are using more.

    I think there was at least one device that people could chain multiple copies of almost indefinitely but I believe that has been addressed. Aside from that, there are abilities that can be preloaded (Beam Overload, for example) and chained so that it may appear to violate the mechanics but in fact they do not. I'm sorry, but there are far too many times that people have accused others of cheating when they just didn't know what was going on.

    In the other thread you gave a list of the 3 types of people and their response to cheating in an MMO. I'd add a fourth: the type who think they are seeing things that aren't actually there.

    Does anyone else remember when a Fed ship using Jam Sensors was considered to be using a TRIBBLE Battle Cloak? Seriously, you just can't make this stuff up.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    MagnumStar wrote:
    Inregards to "what may look odd" wiping out a whole team of experienced players singlehandedly and taking fire from all 4 without going down is alot more than "being an expert pvp'er". I have seen this quite often, and the reporting is less than useful. As to naming and shaming, if theyre caught something needs to be done, some punishment needs to happen. Also if a combination of weapons so inbalances pvp then maybe you need to standardize equipment in pvp.

    Actually no, I have seen and watched people who survive 4 ships jumping them cause they went thru the learning process to make their ship that tough.

    Like my fleet commander said to another Engineer: "Can you take on 3 borg cubes solo and survive? If not you are not a tank."

    Also if the supposed combination of equipment is SUPPOSED to work like that, BUT not many people know about it, that is not an imbalance of the game, that is an inbalance in the knowledge of the player((Which the player should ask around to find out)).
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    MagnumStar wrote:
    Klingon Ship PVP & Cloaking – In the movies and various series Klingons used the cloaking ability to ambush enemy ships and fire on them before they could raise their shields, a very nasty advantage. Unfortunately in STO everyone flies around 24/7 with their shields up so not only is the advantage of cloak taken away but it also takes a few seconds for all the systems to power up after decloaking so now they are the ones at a disadvantage. There are a couple ways I see to fix this oversight that would be fair to everyone.
     Fix 1 – Make it so shields have to be activated by clicking an icon in the action bar, once activated the shields will drain power from all systems at a set speed until clicked to deactivate. This will prevent anyone from flying around with shields always on and still enable the advantage of cloak. With these changes The Fed ships would have to wait till they were attacked to raise shields because leaving them on would put them at the same disadvantage or worse. To offset the cloak Fed ships need a better hull rating and the ability to detect the cloak; this could be a Fed specific sensor skill where the more adds the better the chance of detection. Once detected all Fed ships in the area could see the cloaked ship (It’s assumed the info will be circulated) and be able to fire on the cloaked vessel whose shields are down. Cloaking could be handled the same way by making it a sensor skill where it’s cloak skill vs detection skill.
     Fix 2 – Eliminate the powering up of systems upon decloaking and give Klingon ships the ability to mount more weapons. Klingon ship warfare consists of ambush and then overwhelm your opponent with fire power. Klingons give more attention to offense than they do defense in space combat, mounting more weapons that take energy/power away from shielding. So Klingon ships have less powerful shields than their Fed counterparts, this should balance the factions out with some tweaking.
    This is going to be a balancing act I don’t envy anyone attempting. Not only do you have to balance the ships with each other in their factions but between the factions themselves. I didn’t say it was going to be easy, it just needs to be done.

    Wait, are you telling us, that the KDF needs BALANCE?!?!?!?!?!
    OMG!

    Usually when a KDF ship decloaks, another ship dies, usually the one in front of the KDF ship cannons, it is called INSTANT POP and i have seen this lots of times, even there are LOTS of people begging for FED vs KDF balance, for FEDERATION SIDE!!!!! And I am not talking about newbies...
    MagnumStar wrote:
    Flight Controls – The flight controls are difficult for some people to use. You have to remember Star Trek has been around for a long time and you have fans from all ages. A friend of mine who is over 60 tried playing the game but had so much difficulty controlling his ship (His arthritis prevented him from pressing both mouse buttons while steering ship with the mouse) that he finally gave up trying to play. I imagine he isn’t the only older player so it would make sense to alter the game controls so they are easier to use (And yes we tried altering the controls through the game but the feature is limited). This would open the game to a broader audience/subscribers not to mention an increase in revenue. My elder friend likes space games and still plays the older Microsoft game Freelancer. He is able to manipulate the controls for this game even with his arthritis. The Dev’s need to get their hands on this game and take a good look at it; it has other features that they might find useful. I have played Freelancer and find it to be one of the best space combat games made. If you’re going to copy a feature copy one that works and is from the same genre.

    Come on, Can you please tell me how many games are handicapped friendly? NONE
    As the game increase in complexity, the controls also become more complex
    Did you tried playing ST: Legacy, that game was not friendly even for magician (the ones that make tricks with the cards)...
    The controls that STO uses, are the default ones for EVERY game, from FPS, to RTS, going through every third person game...
    MagnumStar wrote:
    Grenades – Grenades would be better served if they could be bought and replenished as hypos and other consumables are.

    Why, did you asked everyone what they prefer? Did you ever played other ST games like Elite Force? I know is not canon but the weapons and equipment were materialized and de-materialized in the field of battle... Are you telling me that Federation does not have the technology of creating grenades in the field?
    MagnumStar wrote:
    Human Player Race – The racial traits for humans are very tame for a race that dominates Federation Space. I recommend adding a 3rd trait that represents why humans dominate, “Versatility”. This a space/ground combo trait that gives humans a crit/dmg bonus chance to space combat and expose/crit/dmg bonus to ground combat.
    .

    In every single game I have played, the humans have advantages and disadvantages, you don't like? Play another race! My capitans are: Klingon x 2, Alien (cardassian), Vulcan. All with different things...
    MagnumStar wrote:
    Klingon Faction Costumes – The Klingon Faction really needs more costume selection. I’ve seen Klingons on episodes wearing robes so I know they wear clothing other than armor. For Klingon attire I would look at Mongol garb and design from there. Egyptian/Spartan attire would work nicely for Orions and shirtless/pantless Gorns that you see the NPC’s wear/not wear could be an nice feature. As for the other races I have no suggestions other than get creative.

    Hi, my name is STO, I am 1 year old, I'm growing and learning things, I know that I may not be perfect, but my parents ARE WORKING ON FIXING ME...

    Off course the game is far from perfect, but the things that you mentions here, not only are far from reality but I can assure, that most people think different, which off course, should not let you change your mind, but you should ask yourself... If i am playing a game, which i certainly HATE, what the heck m doing here????
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    cenovita wrote: »

    Usually when a KDF ship decloaks, another ship dies, usually the one in front of the KDF ship cannons, it is called INSTANT POP and i have seen this lots of times, even there are LOTS of people begging for FED vs KDF balance, for FEDERATION SIDE!!!!! And I am not talking about newbies...


    Out of curiuosity, Who is a non-newbie federation regular pvp player that has asked for nerfs to the KDF faction due to insta-popping?
    So a defiant that can insta-pop a KDF player needs the same nerfing right?
    Or a Cruiser that can shrug off multiple attacks from several players needs a nerf, right?
    Experience is the biggest factor in being killed or staying alive in pvp, not percieved faction imbalances based on a bad pvp experience.
    If what you describe is the case (insta-popping) then all of (fleet name redacted) are cheating OP players as their combined teamwork made short work of me and my fellow KDF several days in pvp.
    Surely it was cheating and blatant OP favortism. :p
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    *friendly reminder when discussing PvP*
    There is no one true truth in PvP. One side will always think another side needs to be brought down... So when you feel passion about your side, remember there is also another side. Thanks! :)
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    Roach wrote: »


    Out of curiuosity, Who is a non-newbie federation regular pvp player that has asked for nerfs to the KDF faction due to insta-popping?
    So a defiant that can insta-pop a KDF player needs the same nerfing right?
    Or a Cruiser that can shrug off multiple attacks from several players needs a nerf, right?
    Experience is the biggest factor in being killed or staying alive in pvp, not percieved faction imbalances based on a bad pvp experience.
    If what you describe is the case (insta-popping) then all of (fleet name redacted) are cheating OP players as their combined teamwork made short work of me and my fellow KDF several days in pvp.
    Surely it was cheating and blatant OP favortism. :p

    Not at all my friend, I am not talking about cheating, yes I am talking about imbalance and it is pointless to tell names, it is people i know, which are regular PvP player (i am not, I am newbie on PvP and I have won and lost, probably 50-50). And this people complain regarding this...
    Are they right? Are they wrong? I dunno, my KDF characters are far from VA level, maybe we can discuss it again once I reach the level.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    WishStone wrote:
    *friendly reminder when discussing PvP*
    There is no one true truth in PvP. One side will always think another side needs to be brought down... So when you feel passion about your side, remember there is also another side. Thanks! :)

    There may be more than one truth in PvP......but only my truth counts.

    I reject your reality and replace it with my own.:D
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    SHARKFORCE wrote: »
    There may be more than one truth in PvP......but only my truth counts.

    I reject your reality and replace it with my own.:D

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YFkLATIc2a0 :D
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    I apologize for the dual threads I posted with the same content. I was unaware of "rule" forbidding it. If the monitored pvp matches as well as the do the forums I'd have no need to complain about cheating.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    MagnumStar wrote:
    They continually remake a toon and prowl the lower lvls.

    Hum... Ok but that is not a cheat because beside knowing the game a bit more, you do not any advantage that a new player could not have. You can not mount a MK X weapon on a ship if you are only a Lt...
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    MagnumStar wrote:
    I apologize for the dual threads I posted with the same content. I was unaware of "rule" forbidding it. If the monitored pvp matches as well as the do the forums I'd have no need to complain about cheating.

    To be honest, there probably isn't any need to complain about cheating in PVP anyway.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    cenovita wrote: »
    Roach wrote: »

    Not at all my friend, I am not talking about cheating, yes I am talking about imbalance and it is pointless to tell names, it is people i know, which are regular PvP player (i am not, I am newbie on PvP and I have won and lost, probably 50-50). And this people complain regarding this...
    Are they right? Are they wrong? I dunno, my KDF characters are far from VA level, maybe we can discuss it again once I reach the level.

    Below VA, the game is more about position and dogfighting, less about ability usage and BOff powers.
    The PvP advantage coming up the ranks will flip-flop between feds and KDF depending on rank and skill.
    Search out the threads on your given vessel choice and ask those players whom seem far above your skill and your own skills will improve. Check how you spent your skillpoints and make sure they support those abilities you use most often.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    SHARKFORCE wrote: »
    There may be more than one truth in PvP......but only my truth counts.

    I reject your reality and replace it with my own.:D

    Truth is a three edged sword.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    1 of my ships is a tank. It's what i use it for. The toon i play it with has 2000 hours of play time. almost all of it in PVP, & I have 5 toons. I have no problem whatsoever jumping 3 or 4 enemy ships at a time in ker'rat, killing the escort, then running away from his buddies. Granted, it doesn't always work, but i get away with it most of the time. It's what i do.I have been called a cheater so often that i no longer get insulted & take it as a compliment. I am not invincible, but i have been playing long enough to have this figured out.
    & there are plenty of other players who i know are way better at tanking than me.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    lol- thats why I know I'm just an average player. I've only been called a cheater once in PvP.

    Never seen any cheating in pvp since before STO even went live. Seen some exploiting of known bugged abilities, but never an out-in-out cheat.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    Wow...there is a ranking scale for PvP !!! I never knew !!!

    Below average = never been accused of cheating or hacking

    Average = 1 to ? (10 being reasonable ?) times of being accused

    Above average = 11 to 50

    Excellent = lost count


    :rolleyes:
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    RStoney wrote: »
    Wow...there is a ranking scale for PvP !!! I never knew !!!

    Below average = never been accused of cheating or hacking

    Average = 1 to ? (10 being reasonable ?) times of being accused

    Above average = 11 to 50

    Excellent = lost count


    :rolleyes:

    No, actually that was my whole point, I consider myself an average PVPer. I know of many Feds in star cruisers whose tanking makes mine look n00bish. luckily i know most of them by name & no longer even bother shooting at them until all his friends are dead. What may look like a cheat to a less experienced player merely makes the more experienced shake their heads in admiration.Or use the correct counters to blow said player away.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    Roach wrote: »
    Truth is a three edged sword.

    In the hands of a Klingon it's a club.....crushing frail Fed egos.:D
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    SHARKFORCE wrote: »
    In the hands of a Klingon it's a club.....crushing frail Fed egos.:D

    LOL.
    Many things can be clubs, but few things can be truthful.

    After doing another search of the multitude of CHEATER sights on the web for STO, I still fail to find anything that actually is a cheat. Sure I found one listing that says typing in "names" on the chat bar can do certain things to cheat (passing it along to the Devs) but doubtful they are what they claim. Everything else is well known tactics like "combo EPTS+TSS will help your survive" and other such.
    Even the so called BOT hack and other hacks seemed stupid and most dangerous to attempt for fear of damaging the game client and getting a perma-ban from the game when (not if but when) one will get caught.

    Thus I still rest frimly that the bulk of the Cheaters in STO are merely good players.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    Roach wrote: »
    LOL.
    Many things can be clubs, but few things can be truthful.

    After doing another search of the multitude of CHEATER sights on the web for STO, I still fail to find anything that actually is a cheat. Sure I found one listing that says typing in "names" on the chat bar can do certain things to cheat (passing it along to the Devs) but doubtful they are what they claim. Everything else is well known tactics like "combo EPTS+TSS will help your survive" and other such.
    Even the so called BOT hack and other hacks seemed stupid and most dangerous to attempt for fear of damaging the game client and getting a perma-ban from the game when (not if but when) one will get caught.

    Thus I still rest frimly that the bulk of the Cheaters in STO are merely good players.

    I would like a PvP accolade called 'Cheater!' or 'OMG you Haxed!' ,you would recieve these accolades after being reported for cheating.:D

    Never been called cheater though......must be doing something wrong.:( (I should really PvP more......getting a bit rusty)
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    SHARKFORCE wrote: »
    I would like a PvP accolade called 'Cheater!' or 'OMG you Haxed!' ,you would recieve these accolades after being reported for cheating.:D

    Never been called cheater though......must be doing something wrong.:( (I should really PvP more......getting a bit rusty)

    Only if I can get one called "Toothless Old War Targ" for continueing to try to play pvp and failing to kill anything most days. I know I'm rusty.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    MagnumStar wrote:
    Klingon Ship PVP & Cloaking – In the movies and various series Klingons used the cloaking ability to ambush enemy ships and fire on them before they could raise their shields, a very nasty advantage. Unfortunately in STO everyone flies around 24/7 with their shields up so not only is the advantage of cloak taken away but it also takes a few seconds for all the systems to power up after decloaking so now they are the ones at a disadvantage.


    speaking from Retro-Defiant, and BoP experience.
    I think cloaks work fine, decloaking and surprise attacking a recently downed shield is very effective. (especially if you observe your target, time your attack to catch him while his tricks are on CD). Weapon batteries or EPW can be used to up your damage potential the second you decloak, and I have read that the initial volley as you "fade in" get's a damage bonus.... (unconfirmed tho). Then it's evasive, recloak, repeat. Had plenty of success with this.

    -cheers
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    Roach wrote: »
    Only if I can get one called "Toothless Old War Targ" for continueing to try to play pvp and failing to kill anything most days. I know I'm rusty.

    No worries.....I have some shark teeth dentures for you.:p
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    SHARKFORCE wrote: »
    No worries.....I have some shark teeth dentures for you.:p

    Thanks.
    I'm not going to let a little thing like repeated death slow me down, though I am now branching out to different vessels. May give the Qin a try and see how it goes.
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