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Teachers are EVIL!

SystemSystem Member, NoReporting Posts: 178,019 Arc User
edited March 2011 in Ten Forward
I'm going to try to keep this non-political.

Basically lately on new stations like Fox and some politicians have been going all out against Teachers of all things. Basically calling them greedy, lazy people who think they're better than everyone.

Wut? Serioulsy, wut?

Are we at the point where we attack TEACHERS? Teachers are a giving profession. For each hour they'll probably spend like half an hour working as a teacher outside of class without getting paid (correcting work and creating plans). They're severely under paid. Most teachers go into it to help out kids and teach the next generations. Like with any job there are bad workers and it's probably true that they're too hard to fire... but SERIOUSLY teachers are being attacked and demonized of all things?

Some people say "Those who can't do teach" but those people are ignorant idiots. Most teachers are decent, many go from the start to teach and they're not unskilled failures that a lot of people seem to think they are.

Again, there are bad ones but that's true with any job. Since you deal with so many going through all of preschool to college I'm sure you'll find some but most aren't like that. XP


This isn't a political issue. It's a stupidity issue. This is like that absolutely ridiculous premise in the original V where everyone suddenly hated Scientists for no reason.
Post edited by Unknown User on
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  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    I've actually had a similar rant about this a few times, although the blame does not lie with the teachers, but rather the methods they are taught to teach.

    As one of the best teachers I ever had said, the main reason that he was so good at what he did was because he didn't teach. He made us learn.

    While the purpose of teaching is to pass on knowledge, it is utterly useless if the people you are teaching don't learn - and let's face it - nowadays, everybody is going digital with their classes.

    Visual aids, PowerPoint presentations, and the good old lecture are just some of the things in the teacher's arsenal these days.

    However, these all fall short because the main problem is that while EVERYBODY will acknowledge that education is important, in the eyes of the students the educators are trying to teach, it has next to no bearing on them. Why should they have to learn some complicated formula for the sake of a test? What use is it in the real world?

    What the system lacks is a method of reliably motivating students to learn and do their best, and a lack of imparting practical knowledge. Granted, education is not simply a responsibility for the schools, but of the parents as well - but given that most don't have the time, this is understandable why they might blame the schools for their child's poor education.

    However, taking everything into account, schools still lack practicality. A perfect example would be of that one school who suspended a boy for putting his arm on a girl WITH HER CONSENT. And I'm sure everybody remembers being chastised for defending oneself against a bully instead of going to get an adult.

    Get an adult. What the hell are we supposed do when we BECOME adults? Run for our grandparents!? (This bit touches on the lack of connection with reality some schools have, but again, that's for another rant).

    There was a study done a few years ago where students were paid if they did good in school, and obviously, the results of that were clear.

    Then there are those who say they shouldn't be paying students for their good grades since it's something they should be doing anyway. I don't particularly agree with this point since on many an application, the title "Student" is listed under occupation, but that's for another rant.

    The point is - we cannot blame teachers fully. We can certainly blame those teachers that do horrid things like take advantage of young kids, but I believe the majority of the blame needs to be put on those responsible for the WAY educators teach. In short, I agree. Few people realize what is involved in making somebody else learn something, much less trying for a whole group.

    The other problem here are the news agencies, who simply ADORE scandal and reporting on the 1 to 10% of a certain group that are outside the group (one of the reasons violence in video games is still being blamed), as you've said. Despite this being common knowledge, people still seem to forget this - and politicians tend to take advantage of this fact.

    Compound this with the fact that most kids these days don't read, and you get a train wreck.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    teachers working a half hour outside of class for every hour in class is laughable and false....it's probably closer to an hour. I know a lot of the demonizing of teachers has to do with their 2 month vacation in the middle of summer. Those people complaining about that seem to forget it's 2 months UNPAID vacation.


    Mind you people complaining about nurses is an even bigger pet peeve of mine. It's the nurses not the doctors who deal with all the patients. I'm not saying doctors don't do hard work, they do the surgical procedures and such, and prescribe medication, but if you've ever been in a hospital for an exstended stay, you'll notice the doctor sees you for about 5 minutes, and it's the nurses that do EVERYTHING.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    I hope Teacher Guy comes back and lets into you.

    Mainly for my amusement.
    wrote:
    Mind you people complaining about nurses is an even bigger pet peeve of mine. It's the nurses not the doctors who deal with all the patients. I'm not saying doctors don't do hard work, they do the surgical procedures and such, and prescribe medication, but if you've ever been in a hospital for an exstended stay, you'll notice the doctor sees you for about 5 minutes, and it's the nurses that do EVERYTHING.

    Yup, and in good hospitals and clinics you can sometimes not even see a doctor. Administrative Practicing Nurses (APN's) are actually allowed to prescribe medications now. It's actually very helpful and can lead to a lighter workload on doctors so they can tend to critical cases over taking time to check up on each recovering patient. Also, having a family member and a friend that's a nurse I know that a lot of times it's the nurses that will catch a symptom or warning sign and alert doctors to them. This as well saves lives.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    I'll let Mr. John Taylor Gatto explain things a bit...

    The central problem is not the teachers. Rather it is the system the teachers have both been forced into and have fortified around themselves. It is system that rewards mediocrity and punishes excellence. It is a system designed to keep the masses docile, stupid consumers and the rich powerful and decadent. It is a system built by both the Republicans and Democrats for their own ends.

    They system itself is at fault. It is designed to simply implant knowledge in people's minds; it does not teach them how to think or apply that knowledge. It does not teach them to compare things. It does not teach them to reason. It does not teach them responsibilities. It does not teach them how to be functional adults.

    Because when they do that they start getting ideas. Ideas like they don't need to buy every freaking Justin Beiber album or Hannah Montana short or whatever. Ideas like they can build a successful company. Ideas like they can be a senator or congressman. Ideas like changing the world for the better.

    The parents are being idiots too. They are usually too wrapped up in their own childishness to pay any attention to their kids. Instead of letting them play with a science kit, read an adventure novel, write a story, draw a picture, go outside and play, or whatever they instead let them watch some mindless drivel on the TV. You know what my parents did when they felt my brothers and I were watching too much TV? They had us write a paper for them on one of the shows we watched either giving a detailed analysis of the plot or explaining what we learned. And it had to be good, with acceptable grammar and content.

    So the teachers are being underpaid to do a bad job well. They are doing their best in a system that is not actually intended to teach children anything useful. I think that what needs to be done is the entire system be flushed with a good solid TRIBBLE. The parts that don't work need to be removed. But this cannot be done because of the bureaucrats and the teachers unions, both of which fight tooth and nail to defend a flawed and inept system badly in need of reform.

    Anyway, that's how I feel.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    While we are on the subject of teachers...


    Chats Death To Puns School
    Lirpa>Lipra.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    Well if you look at WI I think that they're not doing anything right on each side.

    The unions and stuff clearly need reform. Bad teachers should NOT be able to keep their jobs. Good teachers however shouldn't be punished. Tenure should be nerfed in respects to if you do bad stuff you get fired. Often bad teachers who do bad stuff are just put on leave... with pay. :rolleyes:

    However, this stuff they're demanding like disabling bargaining rights is stupid too. You just have to more well define the rules and what they can bargain for and when.

    EDIT: I edited out a paragraph that might have been viewed as political. Basically it was me saying there were other ways to save money in WI rather than breaking the backs of the already often poor teachers like... taxing the super rich. :P
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    Here is all you need to know:

    Companies like GE, Google, Exxon-Mobil, Citibank, and Boeing paid nothing to a most in taxes, while some of them GET MONEY from the Gov to make things. Sadly most of things made on our shelves are made by peasants in the third world.

    A Screwdriver which will cost the same (thanks trade agreements) and last half as long that once was made by someone who made enough money to raise an entire family. Now that screwdriver is made by someone who makes $1 a day and the profits are in a Bermuda mailbox. That money isn't taxed thanks to more loopholes than a Nike Store, where that money will not go to the government who now has to assist the WalMart worker selling that screwdriver now making 1/3 of the income had those TRIBBLE driver been made in the US

    The rich are getting away with fiscal murder, and it's the once-middle class and the poor who have to shoulder it. It's like people did not learn the lessons of the 1920's. But what do you expect, education is so far on the back burner it's in the next room. Not to mention the rampant anti-intellectualism, that seems to put us in the perverbail hand-basket to .....well a very bad place.

    What we seem to have is perfect combination of bad ideas and cowardice.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    i'm a teacher. i dont live in america though. that is all.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    Ertwin wrote: »
    teachers working a half hour outside of class for every hour in class is laughable and false....it's probably closer to an hour. I know a lot of the demonizing of teachers has to do with their 2 month vacation in the middle of summer. Those people complaining about that seem to forget it's 2 months UNPAID vacation.


    Mind you people complaining about nurses is an even bigger pet peeve of mine. It's the nurses not the doctors who deal with all the patients. I'm not saying doctors don't do hard work, they do the surgical procedures and such, and prescribe medication, but if you've ever been in a hospital for an exstended stay, you'll notice the doctor sees you for about 5 minutes, and it's the nurses that do EVERYTHING.

    It's not only the fact that our vacation is unpaid, however I have rarely ever had a sumer where I am not going through training...usually at my own expense to be reimbursed if I am lucky, and the time I spend during the summer to improve my skills or to keep on top of the newest methods and material. Sure...teachers are lazy (I am being sarcastic here btw), we have a Monday to Friday job 10 months of the year....lol...sure....
    Yup, we spend a great deal of our time out of the class doing work, spending our own money on the class or classes since we have limited funds from school districts, and we ask for not much in return..
    I feel people demonize teachers because they actually try to hold parents and students accountable for their actions or lack thereof....It seems accountability from either parents or students is uncommon today, and passing the buck (or demonizing) seems the way to go...It just makes me sick thinking about it sometimes... (Mind you not everybody is unaccountable or irresponsible, just a growing percentage)...but then again, it does make honest teachers' jobs harder when some goober makes a fool of themselves by 'messing around' with one of their students...I mean really???... ick....
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    Politicians are evil. Overpaid, lazy, and most couldn't care less for my welfare unless I have the power to remove them from office.

    I have met the odd teacher who...seems bad....but teachers are the most hard working, dedicated, underpaird and under-appreciated people I know. It's the same with Nurses.

    And education systems are only as good as the way they're formed. Teachers are just the poor minions who have to abide by it in order to teach.

    And there's several restrictions on teachers. Health & Safety, money, supplies, old buildings, old equipment, law....
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    IBTL!!
    Basically lately on new stations like Fox and some politicians have been going all out against Teachers of all things.

    Faux News gets more ratings when they say something that makes no sense. I think a large portion of their viewers just likes watching tv where they can feel smarter than the people on it. Their opponent isn't much better at certain points in the day.... :rolleyes:
    Ravenstein wrote: »
    The central problem is not the teachers. Rather it is the system the teachers have both been forced into and have fortified around themselves.

    I agree with this, surprisingly. :p It sounds like a conspiracy rant, but I think it hits on good points. I don't think the politicians are directly manipulating education. Here's what I think is happening: politicians talk about places in the world that are currently a focus of their attention such as the middle east, korea, israel... then the *public* demands that the teachers teach these things to the students.

    Social Science courses get hit the hardest by this. I learned more about the countries we happened to be having problems with than any of the ones we actually are likely to interact with on a regular basis. I could name half the cities in the middle east, but couldn't name the capitol of Canada. In fact, I learned more about Canada by playing this game with homsikpanda for a couple hours than I learned in all my formal education combined. *lame* :(

    Math, Science, and Language courses tend to do better. Language is a fluid thing, affected by modern trends with what's popular, but it isn't hot enough to have parents calling in. About the only thing that gets whining on the Science front is evolution. I'd love to see someone go into biology professionally who honestly believes that evolution is false, just to see how they do in the field. :p
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    hort_wort wrote: »
    I could name half the cities in the middle east, but couldn't name the capitol of Canada.

    Ottawa - I think. (Looks it up) Yeup, I was right.

    I used to be good at geography, at least with naming countries and their capitals. Learned more on that subject watching the old Where in the World is Carmen Sandiego game show on PBS than I did in school.

    And I agree with all the points here; pressure for public schools to perform better with less, apathetic parents who consider schools as public daycare centers, children who are coddled and "sheltered" from anything bad, and a unions that probably have too much influence on the system.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    Edited, I can't say what I think without breaking forum rules.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    Edited, I can't say what I think without breaking forum rules.

    Ah just go for it, we're all talking in a pretty gray area in this thread. :p Just try not to sound angry at anyone in particular and you'll probably be fine. ;)
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    Maybe if the National Education Association (which is the biggest US Teacher's Union) weren't spending 93% of their dues fees on supporting Democrats, instead of actually helping teachers teach (buying supplies and such) there wouldn't be such a backlash against them.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    Maybe if the National Education Association (which is the biggest US Teacher's Union) weren't spending 93% of their dues fees on supporting Democrats, instead of actually helping teachers teach (buying supplies and such) there wouldn't be such a backlash against them.

    Like I said, if the teachers were not doing their gosh-darn best to perpetuate a failed system, maybe I would have more sympathy for them.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    Thankfully, I went to a different kind of high school - where the teachers were sadly RIIDUCULOUSLY underpaid compared to their public school counter parts, but did a MUCH better job making students learn instead of teaching.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    I say I have to agree with something that was said earlier.

    When I was in school, got a rap as being "overly violent, attacking people without provocation", and such like that. The people who made fun of me on a daily basis got raps such as "Wonderful, glowing student. A perfect example of what kids should be."

    The teachers wouldn't listen the first 50 times I told them these kids were constantly harassing me. They said that they had seen their behavior in class, and that I was just trying to discredit them. One day, they made fun of my last name. Okay, I could deal with that. Then they pushed me down and made fun of my mom.

    Let's just say that they weren't so smug once I decided that they needed to learn some respect.

    Also, I saw a news story a few months ago... a 3rd grader got suspended because he brought a Boy Scout utensil, which was a fork on one end, and a spoon with a serrated cutting edge on the other end, into school. The utensil was plasic, and the serrated edge and fork spikes are no sharper than the plasic utensils they use at schools. I've seen the devices myself.

    And on a third point... If by "Evil", you mean, "A Deamon that feeds off of teaching," then my 8th grade math teacher fits the description. She STILL teaches today, and in fact, last year was her 50th year straight of teaching at the same school, same classroom. I went to the ceremony, and we heard a story about how she wouldn't let a janitor into her room, because the janitor had never given my teacher a late pass... when that janitor was a student of my teacher.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    If your teachers are basing everything they see, then they don't deserve to be teachers.

    You're working with kids. Since when do kids EVER reveal their true behavior in the prescense of somebody that will get them in trouble?

    It will forever be, and always remain one of the my main peeves and criticisms of the educational system - and that is the sheer lack of common sense school administrators and teachers have when it comes to bullying, physical or emotional.

    You have no idea how many times I was told that words will never hurt, how many times they kept repeating that stupid little rhyme to make me feel better.

    Well, now I'm older, wiser, and ironically, somebody who works with words to create and craft(albiet not professionaly, and not with a degree, but that's another rant). And I can definately tell you without a single shred of doubt that words are perhaps the most POWERFUL thing to exist. And emotional bullying does take its toll. You think those school shootings were done because the kid who went postal was absolutely fine and sane? (Not directed at you guys, btw)

    Bruises will heal and disappear with time, but there is no blow that can strike so deeply and lasting than a strike of words.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    Most of the teachers I experienced in school were good people trying damned hard to do a thankless job for TRIBBLE pay. I'm not saying there aren't lazy, ignorant teachers out there abusing the tenure system, but in my experience, there are a lot more trying to do a good job than milking the system.

    Average yearly salary for a Teacher and a State Trooper in the state I live in is less than 30k a year. (Numbers are several years old... I'm too tired to look for current figures.) Neither are jobs that I'd want at double the pay.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    @ BoredZero:

    Sometimes, I wish I could've lived in New York, in, say, the 50s or early 60s, when you could fight at school, because chances were that if it wasn't a fistfight there, it would be a knife fight in the streets.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    I'm going to try to keep this non-political.

    Basically lately on new stations like Fox and some politicians have been going all out against Teachers of all things. Basically calling them greedy, lazy people who think they're better than everyone.

    Wut? Serioulsy, wut?

    Are we at the point where we attack TEACHERS? Teachers are a giving profession. For each hour they'll probably spend like half an hour working as a teacher outside of class without getting paid (correcting work and creating plans). They're severely under paid. Most teachers go into it to help out kids and teach the next generations. Like with any job there are bad workers and it's probably true that they're too hard to fire... but SERIOUSLY teachers are being attacked and demonized of all things?

    Some people say "Those who can't do teach" but those people are ignorant idiots. Most teachers are decent, many go from the start to teach and they're not unskilled failures that a lot of people seem to think they are.

    Again, there are bad ones but that's true with any job. Since you deal with so many going through all of preschool to college I'm sure you'll find some but most aren't like that. XP


    This isn't a political issue. It's a stupidity issue. This is like that absolutely ridiculous premise in the original V where everyone suddenly hated Scientists for no reason.

    You claim not to wnat to make it political then go on to completely mischaracterize the both the issue and the argument.

    First, the issue is not that teachers are lazy and are underserving of fair compensation, it is a case of excessive union power, and the fact that all teachers are foprced to pay union dues, even if they are not a member, those funds then are often directed into electing persons that will give the teachers excessive compensation. Yes I said excessive, they only work 9 months a year, if they work summerschool they receive additional pay, and excessive benefits, and by excessive I mean wages and benefits that simply cannot be sustained, and Wisconsin finds itself in this budget crisis, due in part to these excessive packages that these unions have provided.


    If you want to argue as to why the unions are a great thing that is fine, because that is what the Wisconsin disagreement is about, it is not about teachers, it is about union power, and how much they should have.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    If the wages and benefits cannot be sustained, that is the district's fault, not the Union's. The Unions are only there to make sure that the teachers are not treated un-fairly, and that they recieve compensation if they are injured or made ill while on the job. If the district can't pay it's own teachers, it deserves to go bankrupt and shut down.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    spartan844 wrote:
    If the wages and benefits cannot be sustained, that is the district's fault, not the Union's. The Unions are only there to make sure that the teachers are not treated un-fairly, and that they recieve compensation if they are injured or made ill while on the job. If the district can't pay it's own teachers, it deserves to go bankrupt and shut down.

    But the Unions provide substantial support for the politicians that make those decisions, in effect placing many of those persons in the pocket of said unions. It creates a conflict of interest when a politician who has received support from the unions is then negotiating with the unions, when in fact they are supposed to be representing the voters.

    That is why giving the teacher’s the right to opt out of paying union dues, and providing the ability of the actual voters to approve or disapprove any wage increase greater than the CPI is essential for long term solvency of the state.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    WarpVis wrote: »
    You claim not to wnat to make it political then go on to completely mischaracterize the both the issue and the arg

    I think the OP was talking about teachers, not their unions.... I've heard talk about disbanding public schools long before the issue of the unions in the last week.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    Disband public schools? :eek:

    How will the children socialize?
    Why do people think sending them to military schools (i.e. Private schools) would be better?
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    I agree that Union membership should be optional, as well as any dues paid to them.

    Unions can not represent their members if their members have no say in the Union, and they can have no say in the Union if they don't have the option to leave. The most powerful right we have, that any citizen anywhere has, is the right to not participate in something, because then that organization cannot get any money or power from you.

    Make membership optional, and then the only way a Union can sustain itself is by listening to its consituents.

    However, I also beleive that teachers shouldn't be making any less than they are now. They DO perform an absolutely necessary job, and even if there are a few bad apples, as a society we need people to be motivated to work those jobs and that will only happen if those jobs have good pay and benefits.

    My father considered becoming a teacher after he got his Masters in History, but he decided against it because he would have also needed an Education Degree. He already spent 6 years in college. Many teachers go 8 - 10 years to get their position. They would need an Education Degree, and then a Math/English/History Degree with it. Thats well over 100,000 dollars in education (these days anyway), and it sounds to me like a lot of people here wouldn't mind paying them 10 bucks an hour. That's ridiculous. They earn what they get.

    I think there is also more to this than there appears. The bane of tyranny is an armed and educated populace. Our government has been systematically attacking our right to bear arms for decades, and have also been systematically attacking our educational system. This is just another step in a process.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    The right to bear arms, while it is a tenent of the BIll of Rights, is rightfully called into question. Legal right to bear arms is what provided the means for the Columbine massacre, and more recently, the Tuscon shooting. I hate to bring those things up, but if we DIDN'T have the right to bear arms, it would be a lot less likely that those things would happen. The right of the citizenry to bear arms should be restricted to only times when the United States is in imminent danger of being invaded by foreign powers. That does NOT mean terrorists. That means other nations.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    First, no where in the Bill of Rights does it say that children have the right to bear arms. That right is reserved for citizens, and at the time the Bill of Rights was drafted "citizens" were voters, and voters were adult white males who owned land (no you couldn't vote back then unless you owned land). Our society has changed a little since then and citizenship is now applied to everybody. However I feel children still have no purpose owning a firearm.

    School massacres are a result of **** poor parenting, nothing more. If a parent doesn't know that his child is building pipe bombs in his basement, the dank cell should have never reproduced in the first place. If you can't parent a child, you shouldn't be a parent.

    Also, our right to bear arms was not given to us to protect ourselves from Great Britain. That is a lie that is taught in schools, forced to be taught in schools by the Federal Government. Our right to bear arms was given to us to prevent the newly established government of the United States from ever becoming tyrannical. It was meant to give our citizens the ability to fight back against our own government if it ever tried to oppress us.

    By choosing to give up that right, and fight against other peoples rights to exercise it, you are only shackling away your freedoms, and encouraging this government to grow ever more oppressive.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    1st off: Children are citizens, and have equal protection under the law. Granted, they shouldn't be owning firearms, but then you'd have a Boy Scout uprising.

    2nd: I know we weren't given the right to bear arms to protect ourselves from Great Britain. However, we don't NEED guns to rise against the government. The Egyptians and Tunisians didn't have guns. The Iranians didn't have guns. And they're doing just fine without them. Mohatma Gandhi kicked the British out of India without using force, even upon pain of multiple imprisionments, and he was beaten a few times by policemen when he won additional rights for South Africans. He even stopped violent conflicts between Indians and Pakistanis. If we ever need to rise up against the U.S. government, we would follow his example, and we would be relentless with our movement until they'd either killed everyone, or we got what we wanted.
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