I don't see why they couldn't make it smaller. One of my Trill BOs is supposed to be a teenager, and she looks like one (and last time I checked, girls I went to high school with were all different sizes). One of my BOs is supposed to be 40, but she doesn't have the slider maxed out. Age should have no bearing on bust size, because it doesn't in the real world. Well, unless you have a female character that's supposed to be 10 or something.
unless you have a female character that's supposed to be 10 or something.
I feel compelled to reiterate, that this is my main fear if Cryptic allows the slider to drop down to "flat" or nearly so. The potential for gross and deviant misuse exists.
While I'm not normally one to advocate the exclusion of an option because a very small number of people could misuse it, the fact that this option could even possibly lead to players engaging in inappropriate actions with avatars meant to represent underage individuals, children, makes it a terribly touchy subject for me.
That said, I won't actively seek to oppose this option. But I implore those of you in support of it to consider the possible ramifications.
The ESRB thing is a smokescreen. If you doubt me on this, go try Champions Online, their other game.
In Champs, you can make your character flat as a board, short as a ten year old with a face and hair to match, and have her be right next to naked. You can then slather the skin in body oil and run around dangerous slums.
And you know? The ESRB does not have a problem with that.
If the STO devs are indeed using this excuse to *not* let our female characters be small-chested, they're flat-out lying.
I feel compelled to reiterate, that this is my main fear if Cryptic allows the slider to drop down to "flat" or nearly so. The potential for gross and deviant misuse exists.
While I'm not normally one to advocate the exclusion of an option because a very small number of people could misuse it, the fact that this option could even possibly lead to players engaging in inappropriate actions with avatars meant to represent underage individuals, children, makes it a terribly touchy subject for me.
That said, I won't actively seek to oppose this option. But I implore those of you in support of it to consider the possible ramifications.
This presupposes that people who want to have underage/young adult characters will be doing things that are considered inappropriate. I mean, some people might just want to play Captain Princess Marissa Flores Picard, HEROINE of the FEDERATION!(tm). Exaggeration aside... well, hey, you never know.
That being said, I am not incognizant of your concerns, and would further agree that... frankly, our characters are in a moderately unpleasant world at the moment, and they do some fairly questionable or disturbing things. (Plus... 'sploiting an exposed enemy with a phaser would give me the ******* no matter what age I was.) I would like to see the bust slider go down a cup size or two because, frankly, it's rather silly having all these racktastic characters running around. (Starfleet Medical must be having a special on lower back care.) But... you bring up some very good points that deserve consideration.
I'm a guy, and I fully support the idea of being able to make women's chests smaller in game. Even if my female toons should have backproblems considering what I've done to them when I did try and make some BOs smaller they still looked like they had some waterbaloons mounted on their chests.
I support having the option to have smaller bust sizes. Maybe not completely flat (in an attempt to skirt possible issues that could arise from that), but at least down to an A. I was creating a female Boff a couple of days ago with what was meant to be a boyish/lean frame (think Keira Knightley-esque), and was disappointed to find I couldn't make her as flat chested as I wanted... even at the smallest, she's still pretty well endowed.
Unfortunately, it does not matter. Marvel had brought suit against Cryptic not long after City of Heroes was launched due to players creating "clones" of Marvel characters. From what I remember, their argument was Cryptic had created the customization tools allowing players to create clones. Cryptic themselves did not create the characters, but were still slapped suit.
We should be reporting all the Avatar clones as we see them, but I would imagine most people do not bother.
Yeah and when it came out in court that Marvel employees were responsible for MAKING many of those 'infringing' clones... yeah, it wasn't pretty.
I'd like to add that I've been a strong advocate of Champions Online BECAUSE you can form your body any way you wish. I'm a LIFER to THAT game because of this one feature!
Small-busted women are discriminated against in pretty much every other MMO (and game and movie and...) in existence. If a woman (or a man) so much as suggests toning down bust size, he or she is laughed away. But a person can always feel safer on a Cryptic forum.
And so WHAT if a character looks like a child? People make Na'vi characters, and other copyright infringements. Should we take away blue skin? Maybe there's a race of precocious beings that are mentally indistinguishable from adults, but look like children.
Limiting creativity, discriminating against the small bust, goes against everything this company holds dear.
I hate that my character has grostesque torpedos awkwardly poking from the front of her shirt. I definitely move to have at LEAST the option of going down to an A-cup. I want to stand out and look more ladylike.
It's just one of these sticking points that bothers me about this game and then I worry it'll carry over into Neverwinter....
I really think that all the "open jacket" supporter's should be spending their sub money on another product. Namely ones that focus on cleavages and the like.
I really think that all the "open jacket" supporter's should be spending their sub money on another product. Namely ones that focus on cleavages and the like.
I mean seriously...:rolleyes:
Oh man, if i was able to do this to myself? between that and STO, i'd really never leave the house..........I'd be playing with one or the other.........or ...both at the same time.............:D
wait thats not what you meant is it?...thats ok, i never pay attention to anything north of the equator on any woman..........
What? I like my eyes glued to the valley of the cresent moon........its beautiful country around them parts.....
I'd like to add that I've been a strong advocate of Champions Online BECAUSE you can form your body any way you wish. I'm a LIFER to THAT game because of this one feature!
Small-busted women are discriminated against in pretty much every other MMO (and game and movie and...) in existence. If a woman (or a man) so much as suggests toning down bust size, he or she is laughed away. But a person can always feel safer on a Cryptic forum.
And so WHAT if a character looks like a child? People make Na'vi characters, and other copyright infringements. Should we take away blue skin? Maybe there's a race of precocious beings that are mentally indistinguishable from adults, but look like children.
Limiting creativity, discriminating against the small bust, goes against everything this company holds dear.
I hate that my character has grostesque torpedos awkwardly poking from the front of her shirt. I definitely move to have at LEAST the option of going down to an A-cup. I want to stand out and look more ladylike.
It's just one of these sticking points that bothers me about this game and then I worry it'll carry over into Neverwinter....
for women can there be a way to slide it more to the left, even all the way to left some on my BOs it seems a bit too big.
I agree completely.
My main is supposed to be very petite... but even with the bust slider at minimum she's got uhm 'large tracts of land.' Okay they aren't huge or anything, but it's still excessive for what she's actually supposed to look like.
This thread is great....its gonna turn into a nickname thread as people become more creative on a way to say the word boob without saying boob...you guys are great.......:D
I don't really care if the slider goes slower, personally. I do worry a bit that some ero-roleplayers might take advantage of that in less than wholesome ways, but not like anyone can do anything about it.
This seems like a rather silly thing to be worrying about. I mean, yes, no one wants that kind of deviancy going on (we have whole other categories of deviancy we much prefer!) - but it's going to regardless, and the actual visual representation of characters in the game isn't going to make a jot of difference.
I've seen more than one (poorly) roleplayed teenager (and younger) wandering around in STO - they just appear to be remarkably early developers. If people are going to roleplay dubious situations with those characters (and having seen them at work, I find that quite possible), it's going to happen regardless.
I don't really care if the slider goes slower, personally. I do worry a bit that some ero-roleplayers might take advantage of that in less than wholesome ways, but not like anyone can do anything about it.
Personally my only complaint is that at the more ridiculous sizes (3/5 and higher), they look less like glorious TRIBBLE and more like balloons stuffed into their uniforms. A little big of sag as they expand would be appreciated. Not much, just a hint, but enough to get rid of that basketball look.
They look that way because bras and various other garments of the future have built in anti-gravity devices to prevent the backaches that women of our current time have to deal with.
I feel compelled to reiterate, that this is my main fear if Cryptic allows the slider to drop down to "flat" or nearly so. The potential for gross and deviant misuse exists.
While I'm not normally one to advocate the exclusion of an option because a very small number of people could misuse it, the fact that this option could even possibly lead to players engaging in inappropriate actions with avatars meant to represent underage individuals, children, makes it a terribly touchy subject for me.
That said, I won't actively seek to oppose this option. But I implore those of you in support of it to consider the possible ramifications.
What a joke. So I shouldn't be able to roleplay a woman with an A cup chest (they exist), just because somebody out there will imagine that their A cup female is a teen or child? lol. Dumbest counterpoint ever.
I will come out and agree with the 'closet women' (i.e. don't post on the forums much) that the bust slider definately needs a reduction. In fact, the whole ground character slider system needs a look at.
What a joke. So I shouldn't be able to roleplay a woman with an A cup chest (they exist), just because somebody out there will imagine that their A cup female is a teen or child? lol. Dumbest counterpoint ever.
I'm afraid its not so dumb.
It all comes down to legal issues.
Combine a slider that allows for "flat" chests along with all the other settings and you can effectively create an avatar of a child.
And then you can clothe that child in extremely provokative clothing and suggestive poses.
This in some countries is borderline or could even be considered child pornography.
This is not some sick joke or personal view, this is how messed up the legal system is in some countries.
What a joke. So I shouldn't be able to roleplay a woman with an A cup chest (they exist), just because somebody out there will imagine that their A cup female is a teen or child? lol. Dumbest counterpoint ever.
There's nothing necessarily wrong with roleplaying the character as a teenager or even a child. My issue with it comes up when people start using that for less-than-wholesome purposes. Though my concern, while not invalid, is indeed rather far-fetched. Hence why I won't actively decry small bust options. I just want people to consider the possibilities, both good an bad.
And as I said, the only reason this bugs me at all is because of the potential abuse of children involved. If it were anything else, I'd be sharing your viewpoint wholly.
This is not some sick joke or personal view, this is how messed up the legal system is in some countries.
In the UK, we have a law which is very badly worded and might fall foul of this point. It was designed to cover some loop holes in current laws. However it was written in such a bad way and rushed through that it leaves whole segments of the population open to being added to the sex offender's register.
Without resorting to attacking anyone's p.o.v. here, this seems like an incredible non-issue. While Ive never been a fan of artillery shell sized TRIBBLE, the bust slider seems rather reasonably proportioned to me. The far left settings are nearly flat-chested, and the far right are ridiculously oversized.
It seems to me that complaining about the size of your BO/CO's TRIBBLE is a silly thing to do. On one hand, youre entitled to mold your desires, but on the other hand, youre being fairly prudish. (About a video game)
I wouldnt disregard a comissioned officer in real life because she had large TRIBBLE. You should be able to reasonably and adultly deal with the tools given to you, ne?
Thats a terrible excuse from the ESRB. I would like to have flatter female characters myself, and shorter too... like 5'0" short without having to use the alien generator.
The 5 o'clock shadow is NOT because of the ESRB rating. In fact if you pick an asian face (humanoid 02 or something) there is no 5 o'clock shadow.
Also, I don't buy a lot of the stuff they say about ESRB not allowing stuff like bigger cleavage when it's in many, many games already without going to rated M or anything.
And thats exactly why I say I wish Cryptic would just say "We didnt want to do it that way, so we did it this way instead" rather than blaming the ESRB. While i believe that the ESRB really is that petty, its also kinda like blaming all weather fluctuation of global warming...
If you didnt want to make the characters with the ability to go lower than a b-cup then say so!
Yes, the whole ESRB thing has to be a myth. There are tons of other games that are rated the same as STO (T for Teen) in which you can make a character look younger, including stuff like Aion and even Star Wars Galaxies.
But wanting to make someone look younger isn't really the point. As others have said, realistically, adult women can and do have smaller TRIBBLE than what is available in-game.
But I'll go out on a limb here and say I think the most likely reason female characters can't have smaller TRIBBLE has to do with scaling issues regarding textures. In other words, clothing and skin textures would start to look oddly scrunched and malformed if the slider were set lower than we're allowed. The devs could indeed fix this but probably won't because it would require more time and effort than they are willing to spend on the issue.
As for the 5 o'clock shadow thing, I've made a few posts about it, with the most recent being a few weeks ago here. Old posts I made during beta mentioned things like clean-shaven officers being canon(for instance, name a TNG regular who had stubble all the time(and no, Riker had a beard, not stubble)).
So yeah, I'd love for them to add an option where my captain didn't have to look like he hasn't shaved in 2 days. And no, the Asian "humanoid 02" face does indeed still have a stubble shadow, just not nearly as much. But what I really want is stubble-less versions of ALL the male faces.
Comments
rofl. But all joking aside, I really don't think we need a crotch size slider.
I feel compelled to reiterate, that this is my main fear if Cryptic allows the slider to drop down to "flat" or nearly so. The potential for gross and deviant misuse exists.
While I'm not normally one to advocate the exclusion of an option because a very small number of people could misuse it, the fact that this option could even possibly lead to players engaging in inappropriate actions with avatars meant to represent underage individuals, children, makes it a terribly touchy subject for me.
That said, I won't actively seek to oppose this option. But I implore those of you in support of it to consider the possible ramifications.
In Champs, you can make your character flat as a board, short as a ten year old with a face and hair to match, and have her be right next to naked. You can then slather the skin in body oil and run around dangerous slums.
And you know? The ESRB does not have a problem with that.
If the STO devs are indeed using this excuse to *not* let our female characters be small-chested, they're flat-out lying.
/signed for a slider that goes further left.
This presupposes that people who want to have underage/young adult characters will be doing things that are considered inappropriate. I mean, some people might just want to play Captain Princess Marissa Flores Picard, HEROINE of the FEDERATION!(tm). Exaggeration aside... well, hey, you never know.
That being said, I am not incognizant of your concerns, and would further agree that... frankly, our characters are in a moderately unpleasant world at the moment, and they do some fairly questionable or disturbing things. (Plus... 'sploiting an exposed enemy with a phaser would give me the ******* no matter what age I was.) I would like to see the bust slider go down a cup size or two because, frankly, it's rather silly having all these racktastic characters running around. (Starfleet Medical must be having a special on lower back care.) But... you bring up some very good points that deserve consideration.
You make the mistake of thinking that members of ratings bodies behave in anything resembling a rational manner.
lol, i agree
Yeah and when it came out in court that Marvel employees were responsible for MAKING many of those 'infringing' clones... yeah, it wasn't pretty.
Small-busted women are discriminated against in pretty much every other MMO (and game and movie and...) in existence. If a woman (or a man) so much as suggests toning down bust size, he or she is laughed away. But a person can always feel safer on a Cryptic forum.
And so WHAT if a character looks like a child? People make Na'vi characters, and other copyright infringements. Should we take away blue skin? Maybe there's a race of precocious beings that are mentally indistinguishable from adults, but look like children.
Limiting creativity, discriminating against the small bust, goes against everything this company holds dear.
I hate that my character has grostesque torpedos awkwardly poking from the front of her shirt. I definitely move to have at LEAST the option of going down to an A-cup. I want to stand out and look more ladylike.
It's just one of these sticking points that bothers me about this game and then I worry it'll carry over into Neverwinter....
I mean seriously...:rolleyes:
Oh man, if i was able to do this to myself? between that and STO, i'd really never leave the house..........I'd be playing with one or the other.........or ...both at the same time.............:D
What? I like my eyes glued to the valley of the cresent moon........its beautiful country around them parts.....
I agree wholeheartedly.
I agree completely.
My main is supposed to be very petite... but even with the bust slider at minimum she's got uhm 'large tracts of land.' Okay they aren't huge or anything, but it's still excessive for what she's actually supposed to look like.
Someone forgot to tell Cryptic that one...
http://www.startrekonline.com/dyncontent/startrek/uploads/troi_01.jpg
http://www.startrekonline.com/dyncontent/startrek/uploads/sevenofnine_01.jpg
http://www.startrekonline.com/dyncontent/startrek/uploads/tpol_01.jpg
This seems like a rather silly thing to be worrying about. I mean, yes, no one wants that kind of deviancy going on (we have whole other categories of deviancy we much prefer!) - but it's going to regardless, and the actual visual representation of characters in the game isn't going to make a jot of difference.
I've seen more than one (poorly) roleplayed teenager (and younger) wandering around in STO - they just appear to be remarkably early developers. If people are going to roleplay dubious situations with those characters (and having seen them at work, I find that quite possible), it's going to happen regardless.
They look that way because bras and various other garments of the future have built in anti-gravity devices to prevent the backaches that women of our current time have to deal with.
What a joke. So I shouldn't be able to roleplay a woman with an A cup chest (they exist), just because somebody out there will imagine that their A cup female is a teen or child? lol. Dumbest counterpoint ever.
I'm afraid its not so dumb.
It all comes down to legal issues.
Combine a slider that allows for "flat" chests along with all the other settings and you can effectively create an avatar of a child.
And then you can clothe that child in extremely provokative clothing and suggestive poses.
This in some countries is borderline or could even be considered child pornography.
This is not some sick joke or personal view, this is how messed up the legal system is in some countries.
There's nothing necessarily wrong with roleplaying the character as a teenager or even a child. My issue with it comes up when people start using that for less-than-wholesome purposes. Though my concern, while not invalid, is indeed rather far-fetched. Hence why I won't actively decry small bust options. I just want people to consider the possibilities, both good an bad.
And as I said, the only reason this bugs me at all is because of the potential abuse of children involved. If it were anything else, I'd be sharing your viewpoint wholly.
In the UK, we have a law which is very badly worded and might fall foul of this point. It was designed to cover some loop holes in current laws. However it was written in such a bad way and rushed through that it leaves whole segments of the population open to being added to the sex offender's register.
Without resorting to attacking anyone's p.o.v. here, this seems like an incredible non-issue. While Ive never been a fan of artillery shell sized TRIBBLE, the bust slider seems rather reasonably proportioned to me. The far left settings are nearly flat-chested, and the far right are ridiculously oversized.
It seems to me that complaining about the size of your BO/CO's TRIBBLE is a silly thing to do. On one hand, youre entitled to mold your desires, but on the other hand, youre being fairly prudish. (About a video game)
I wouldnt disregard a comissioned officer in real life because she had large TRIBBLE. You should be able to reasonably and adultly deal with the tools given to you, ne?
Whiskey Echo!!
Mythgraven
Yes, the whole ESRB thing has to be a myth. There are tons of other games that are rated the same as STO (T for Teen) in which you can make a character look younger, including stuff like Aion and even Star Wars Galaxies.
But wanting to make someone look younger isn't really the point. As others have said, realistically, adult women can and do have smaller TRIBBLE than what is available in-game.
But I'll go out on a limb here and say I think the most likely reason female characters can't have smaller TRIBBLE has to do with scaling issues regarding textures. In other words, clothing and skin textures would start to look oddly scrunched and malformed if the slider were set lower than we're allowed. The devs could indeed fix this but probably won't because it would require more time and effort than they are willing to spend on the issue.
As for the 5 o'clock shadow thing, I've made a few posts about it, with the most recent being a few weeks ago here. Old posts I made during beta mentioned things like clean-shaven officers being canon(for instance, name a TNG regular who had stubble all the time(and no, Riker had a beard, not stubble)).
So yeah, I'd love for them to add an option where my captain didn't have to look like he hasn't shaved in 2 days. And no, the Asian "humanoid 02" face does indeed still have a stubble shadow, just not nearly as much. But what I really want is stubble-less versions of ALL the male faces.