However, it's been months since they read the thread, and they still haven't directly commented that the plan to add to the character creator, so sadly, it seems unlikely that the devs are going to do it.
We really need to bring it to the devs attention again and se if we can get a response.
I agree, it's very unlikely, but it would have been interesting. I really wish they had done some major improvements to the character creator before they made so many uniforms that it became to much of a hassle to change them all.
They really needed to add the following, but it's pretty much too late now:
A butt size slider
A slider for changing waist width (On females, there isn't really a way to make the waist wider, as increasing the stomach size makes them look pregnant)
Better options for making characters look overweight. The current set-up is better for making females look pregnant, than for making characters look overweight. (Before anyone says that Starfleet is a military organization and that characters should be fit, go look at a picture of Scotty from the later TOS era movies)
How unfair...you put the "waist" slider on max for a man and he has a beer belly, do it for a lady and she's "pregnant"
As a matter of fact I managed to create a "heavier" BO...but I get what you mean, she ended up looking like some sort of "softer" Cory Everson.
Also, since we're talking sliders...the height slider...it can't go below 5'7"? That's quite a respectable height for a woman...If I remember well, the average in the EU and US is about 5'4" !!!
So, my proposal in addition to the OPs and the "heavier" idea:
- Allow the height slider to go down to 5'3" - 5'4" for humans (Klingons and Orions are supposed to be taller...and Vulcans too, to a lesser extent);
Also: implement some sort of hi-tech thingie that measures the player's height - that's a personal grievance: I made the mistake on basing my char on myself and, at 6'2", I feel like a midget in STO with wannabe Na'Vi and other 9 feet tall blue and pink monstruosities going around
How unfair...you put the "waist" slider on max for a man and he has a beer belly, do it for a lady and she's "pregnant"
As a matter of fact I managed to create a "heavier" BO...but I get what you mean, she ended up looking like some sort of "softer" Cory Everson.
Also, since we're talking sliders...the height slider...it can't go below 5'7"? That's quite a respectable height for a woman...If I remember well, the average in the EU and US is about 5'4" !!!
So, my proposal in addition to the OPs and the "heavier" idea:
- Allow the height slider to go down to 5'3" - 5'4" for humans (Klingons and Orions are supposed to be taller...and Vulcans too, to a lesser extent);
Also: implement some sort of hi-tech thingie that measures the player's height - that's a personal grievance: I made the mistake on basing my char on myself and, at 6'2", I feel like a midget in STO with wannabe Na'Vi and other 9 feet tall blue and pink monstruosities going around
Stuck at 5' 7"? I could of swore that I had boffs that were about 5'2". Is this a glitch? Now I need to log on and see just how tall by female boffs are.
Stuck at 5' 7"? I could of swore that I had boffs that were about 5'2". Is this a glitch? Now I need to log on and see just how tall by female boffs are.
Ok. I know what I did. Some of my female boffs that are aliens I made shorter my shrinking leg or torso length. Also, you can make various females from species you like through the alien creator, in order to bypass the height restriction. It's not ideal, but it works.
At 5'10", I cant even reach the TRIBBLE on some Na'vi women running around, lol. But then I see a few dwarfs running around and I feel better, lol.
Lol. Technically, you're not allowed to make copyrighted aliens like the Na'vi with the alien creator, but everyone does it any way. I'm surprised the GM's haven't been more diligent in giving infractions for that sort of thing.
Lol. Technically, you're not allowed to make copyrighted aliens like the Na'vi with the alien creator, but everyone does it any way. I'm surprised the GM's haven't been more diligent in giving infractions for that sort of thing.
Seriously. They cry foul if we named our guy Picard or Michael Jordan, but the first time I saw those players, I INSTANTLY knew they were Avatar characters. If James Cameron ever snoops around STO, he's going to slap us with a hell of a lawsuit for the devs even MAKING character options that could let you be so obviously Na'vi. Double standard, when they are clearly ignoring their own legal rules.
They need the color blue in there for Bolian type characters, and they need pointed ears for Vulcan type characters. What are you going to do?
It's going to be no different with any game that gives you such powerful customization tools. Look at all the Super Mario World levels in LittleBigPlanet. Look at Simpsons and South Park levels in Counter-Strike. People will try to mimic and create things that they like.
As long as it's user-generated through customization I don't see the problem. As long as Cryptic doesn't add Na'vi to the game through NPC's, and doesn't advertise the game as having Na'vi in it, I don't think they would get in any kind of trouble.
They need the color blue in there for Bolian type characters, and they need pointed ears for Vulcan type characters. What are you going to do?
It's going to be no different with any game that gives you such powerful customization tools. Look at all the Super Mario World levels in LittleBigPlanet. Look at Simpsons and South Park levels in Counter-Strike. People will try to mimic and create things that they like.
As long as it's user-generated through customization I don't see the problem. As long as Cryptic doesn't add Na'vi to the game through NPC's, and doesn't advertise the game as having Na'vi in it, I don't think they would get in any kind of trouble.
I agree, I doubt Cryptic could get into trouble since players have to agree to not make copyrighted aliens and characters before they can make a character (at least I seem to remember an agreement, it's been a while since I made one). The GM's definitely need to check the bio's of any Na'vi looking aliens they see on ESD, and if the bio mentions Na'vi anywhere in it, they need to give them an infraction and force them to change characters.
As long as it's user-generated through customization I don't see the problem. As long as Cryptic doesn't add Na'vi to the game through NPC's, and doesn't advertise the game as having Na'vi in it, I don't think they would get in any kind of trouble.
Unfortunately, it does not matter. Marvel had brought suit against Cryptic not long after City of Heroes was launched due to players creating "clones" of Marvel characters. From what I remember, their argument was Cryptic had created the customization tools allowing players to create clones. Cryptic themselves did not create the characters, but were still slapped suit.
We should be reporting all the Avatar clones as we see them, but I would imagine most people do not bother.
I see that as more a sign of our legal system being corrupt than anything. The customization tools are nothing more than pieces, the color blue, a pointed ear, a bony claw, nose ridges, etc.
There are similar issues with many upcoming games in the new so-called "play-create-share" genre of games. Where people could create avatars and in-game objects that resemble other, copyrighted objects. I see it as no more illegal than if I took a piece of paper and drew Homer Simpson on it and signed it with my name. I think almost every child has done something like this at some point, but we don't throw them in prison for it. I don't see how it violates copyright law unless I actually tried to sell it to someone as my own work. The same should apply to character customization in games. Cryptic isn't making or selling Na'vi, the players are making Na'vi (as far as I am concerned).
It seems to me that that lawsuit was used as more of a tool to attack a competitor. Lawsuits are frequently used in this way in the corporate world, and it becomes really sad when normal people are dragged into it.
Cryptic isn't making or selling Na'vi, the players are making Na'vi (as far as I am concerned).
It is not that simple. There is case law that supports a copyright infringement case if they owners of the Avatar franchise decided to file suit.
One case cited during the Marvel suit was FONOVISA, INC. v. CHERRY AUCTION, INC., where a company that ran flea markets was successfully sued over a vendor selling bootleg movies. The court in this one ruled that although the company that runs the markets had not been directly selling the bootleg movies, it was liable for allowing the infringement to take place.
It is not that simple. There is case law that supports a copyright infringement case if they owners of the Avatar franchise decided to file suit.
One case cited during the Marvel suit was FONOVISA, INC. v. CHERRY AUCTION, INC., where a company that ran flea markets was successfully sued over a vendor selling bootleg movies. The court in this one ruled that although the company that runs the markets had not been directly selling the bootleg movies, it was liable for allowing the infringement to take place.
I was under the impression the terms of use included a subsection that condemned the creation of copyrighted characters, species, etc.. I would assume that this would protect them from lawsuits over copyright infringments.
I think thats a little different. The vendor that was a member of the flea market was engaging in a financial transaction during their act of copyright infringement. We as End Users of STO are not selling our avatars (let me make it clear I don't have a Na'vi character personally) when we choose to make Na'vi characters. So I don't see how Fonovisa vs. Cherry Auction applies.
Character Customization in games seems to me no more different to me than someone dressing as a cartoon character and going to an aired concert, for example. Would the band at the concert get sued because someone in the audience is dressed as Mickey Mouse?
I'm not a lawyer, but dude they seem completely different. Was Marvel's lawsuit successful? If so, I hope Cryptic gets some better lawyers.
Unless you are an attorney who specializes in copyright/patent/trademark law, it is pointless to say what is or is not "legal". We can only speculate on what the law is.
I am only passing along information from a similar situation. No, Cryptic is not selling Avatar clones, yet some well versed in copyright law would argue that by allowing these clones to be made, they are in part liable. Marvel Suit.
Google is your friend. You can find all the information you like regarding this kind of case on the web.
Forgot to add in, I believe this is the relevant part from the article I linked to before;
"Just as liability for copyright infringement can extend beyond those who actually manufacture or sell infringing materials, our law recognizes liability for conduct that assists others in direct trademark infringement."
Yeah I and everyone else know how to use Google. Don't be surprised if people ask questions about something that you bring up in a conversation.
It says the lawsuit was in the process of being dismissed as frivolous before Cryptic settled out of court. It states that there was no commercial use of Marvel characters by Cryptic, which is a requirement for copyright infringement, which kind of backs up what I've been trying to say.
It says the lawsuit was in the process of being dismissed as frivolous before Cryptic settled out of court. It states that there was no commercial use of Marvel characters by Cryptic, which is a requirement for copyright infringement, which kind of backs up what I've been trying to say.
You are also still missing the point, but that is ok.
Bottom line is there is enough legal precedent that by allowing Avatar, Babylon 5, Star Wars etc. clones to be made in game, suit can be brought against Atari and Cryptic. That equates to time and money Cryptic and Atari will need to spend on legal fees which they should not have to.
No, no, a thousand times no. Nobody will ever turn that thing down, and knowing my wife the first thing she'll do is create a male captain and max that thing out. If we need a canon excuse, we can just say uniform regs forbid cameltoe.
I believe the dev said that it's to make sure characters look like adults. The same is true for the male character's always present 5 o'clock shadow. Something to do with maintaining the ESRB rating, as the ESRB doesn't want teenage looking characters out there killing aliens and potentially being killed themselves.
Thats a terrible excuse from the ESRB. I would like to have flatter female characters myself, and shorter too... like 5'0" short without having to use the alien generator.
The 5 o'clock shadow is NOT because of the ESRB rating. In fact if you pick an asian face (humanoid 02 or something) there is no 5 o'clock shadow.
Also, I don't buy a lot of the stuff they say about ESRB not allowing stuff like bigger cleavage when it's in many, many games already without going to rated M or anything.
The 5 o'clock shadow is NOT because of the ESRB rating. In fact if you pick an asian face (humanoid 02 or something) there is no 5 o'clock shadow.
Also, I don't buy a lot of the stuff they say about ESRB not allowing stuff like bigger cleavage when it's in many, many games already without going to rated M or anything.
And thats exactly why I say I wish Cryptic would just say "We didnt want to do it that way, so we did it this way instead" rather than blaming the ESRB. While i believe that the ESRB really is that petty, its also kinda like blaming all weather fluctuation of global warming...
If you didnt want to make the characters with the ability to go lower than a b-cup then say so!
I don't really care if the slider goes slower, personally. I do worry a bit that some ero-roleplayers might take advantage of that in less than wholesome ways, but not like anyone can do anything about it.
Personally my only complaint is that at the more ridiculous sizes (3/5 and higher), they look less like glorious TRIBBLE and more like balloons stuffed into their uniforms. A little big of sag as they expand would be appreciated. Not much, just a hint, but enough to get rid of that basketball look.
Comments
All of these ideas that I'm posting were a part of this thread, that the devs actually read:
http://forums.startrekonline.com/showthread.php?t=124023
However, it's been months since they read the thread, and they still haven't directly commented that the plan to add to the character creator, so sadly, it seems unlikely that the devs are going to do it.
We really need to bring it to the devs attention again and se if we can get a response.
How unfair...you put the "waist" slider on max for a man and he has a beer belly, do it for a lady and she's "pregnant"
As a matter of fact I managed to create a "heavier" BO...but I get what you mean, she ended up looking like some sort of "softer" Cory Everson.
Also, since we're talking sliders...the height slider...it can't go below 5'7"? That's quite a respectable height for a woman...If I remember well, the average in the EU and US is about 5'4" !!!
So, my proposal in addition to the OPs and the "heavier" idea:
- Allow the height slider to go down to 5'3" - 5'4" for humans (Klingons and Orions are supposed to be taller...and Vulcans too, to a lesser extent);
Also: implement some sort of hi-tech thingie that measures the player's height - that's a personal grievance: I made the mistake on basing my char on myself and, at 6'2", I feel like a midget in STO with wannabe Na'Vi and other 9 feet tall blue and pink monstruosities going around
Stuck at 5' 7"? I could of swore that I had boffs that were about 5'2". Is this a glitch? Now I need to log on and see just how tall by female boffs are.
When I first read that I didn't understand. I thought you wanted lopsided bridge officers!
Ok. I know what I did. Some of my female boffs that are aliens I made shorter my shrinking leg or torso length. Also, you can make various females from species you like through the alien creator, in order to bypass the height restriction. It's not ideal, but it works.
Lol. Technically, you're not allowed to make copyrighted aliens like the Na'vi with the alien creator, but everyone does it any way. I'm surprised the GM's haven't been more diligent in giving infractions for that sort of thing.
Seriously. They cry foul if we named our guy Picard or Michael Jordan, but the first time I saw those players, I INSTANTLY knew they were Avatar characters. If James Cameron ever snoops around STO, he's going to slap us with a hell of a lawsuit for the devs even MAKING character options that could let you be so obviously Na'vi. Double standard, when they are clearly ignoring their own legal rules.
It's going to be no different with any game that gives you such powerful customization tools. Look at all the Super Mario World levels in LittleBigPlanet. Look at Simpsons and South Park levels in Counter-Strike. People will try to mimic and create things that they like.
As long as it's user-generated through customization I don't see the problem. As long as Cryptic doesn't add Na'vi to the game through NPC's, and doesn't advertise the game as having Na'vi in it, I don't think they would get in any kind of trouble.
I agree, I doubt Cryptic could get into trouble since players have to agree to not make copyrighted aliens and characters before they can make a character (at least I seem to remember an agreement, it's been a while since I made one). The GM's definitely need to check the bio's of any Na'vi looking aliens they see on ESD, and if the bio mentions Na'vi anywhere in it, they need to give them an infraction and force them to change characters.
Unfortunately, it does not matter. Marvel had brought suit against Cryptic not long after City of Heroes was launched due to players creating "clones" of Marvel characters. From what I remember, their argument was Cryptic had created the customization tools allowing players to create clones. Cryptic themselves did not create the characters, but were still slapped suit.
We should be reporting all the Avatar clones as we see them, but I would imagine most people do not bother.
There are similar issues with many upcoming games in the new so-called "play-create-share" genre of games. Where people could create avatars and in-game objects that resemble other, copyrighted objects. I see it as no more illegal than if I took a piece of paper and drew Homer Simpson on it and signed it with my name. I think almost every child has done something like this at some point, but we don't throw them in prison for it. I don't see how it violates copyright law unless I actually tried to sell it to someone as my own work. The same should apply to character customization in games. Cryptic isn't making or selling Na'vi, the players are making Na'vi (as far as I am concerned).
It seems to me that that lawsuit was used as more of a tool to attack a competitor. Lawsuits are frequently used in this way in the corporate world, and it becomes really sad when normal people are dragged into it.
It is not that simple. There is case law that supports a copyright infringement case if they owners of the Avatar franchise decided to file suit.
One case cited during the Marvel suit was FONOVISA, INC. v. CHERRY AUCTION, INC., where a company that ran flea markets was successfully sued over a vendor selling bootleg movies. The court in this one ruled that although the company that runs the markets had not been directly selling the bootleg movies, it was liable for allowing the infringement to take place.
I was under the impression the terms of use included a subsection that condemned the creation of copyrighted characters, species, etc.. I would assume that this would protect them from lawsuits over copyright infringments.
Character Customization in games seems to me no more different to me than someone dressing as a cartoon character and going to an aired concert, for example. Would the band at the concert get sued because someone in the audience is dressed as Mickey Mouse?
I'm not a lawyer, but dude they seem completely different. Was Marvel's lawsuit successful? If so, I hope Cryptic gets some better lawyers.
Unless you are an attorney who specializes in copyright/patent/trademark law, it is pointless to say what is or is not "legal". We can only speculate on what the law is.
I am only passing along information from a similar situation. No, Cryptic is not selling Avatar clones, yet some well versed in copyright law would argue that by allowing these clones to be made, they are in part liable. Marvel Suit.
Google is your friend. You can find all the information you like regarding this kind of case on the web.
Forgot to add in, I believe this is the relevant part from the article I linked to before;
"Just as liability for copyright infringement can extend beyond those who actually manufacture or sell infringing materials, our law recognizes liability for conduct that assists others in direct trademark infringement."
The whole ESRB thing is stupid anyway... I'm going to bite my lip and say nothing else though
It says the lawsuit was in the process of being dismissed as frivolous before Cryptic settled out of court. It states that there was no commercial use of Marvel characters by Cryptic, which is a requirement for copyright infringement, which kind of backs up what I've been trying to say.
You are also still missing the point, but that is ok.
Bottom line is there is enough legal precedent that by allowing Avatar, Babylon 5, Star Wars etc. clones to be made in game, suit can be brought against Atari and Cryptic. That equates to time and money Cryptic and Atari will need to spend on legal fees which they should not have to.
I don't think the game needs THAT kind of slider...
... oh wait... never mind.
Hey, if they can give women a boob slider, I see nothing wrong with a crotch slider for men.
Somehow, I don't think people would argue for a "smaller" option.
Thats a terrible excuse from the ESRB. I would like to have flatter female characters myself, and shorter too... like 5'0" short without having to use the alien generator.
Also, I don't buy a lot of the stuff they say about ESRB not allowing stuff like bigger cleavage when it's in many, many games already without going to rated M or anything.
And thats exactly why I say I wish Cryptic would just say "We didnt want to do it that way, so we did it this way instead" rather than blaming the ESRB. While i believe that the ESRB really is that petty, its also kinda like blaming all weather fluctuation of global warming...
If you didnt want to make the characters with the ability to go lower than a b-cup then say so!
Personally my only complaint is that at the more ridiculous sizes (3/5 and higher), they look less like glorious TRIBBLE and more like balloons stuffed into their uniforms. A little big of sag as they expand would be appreciated. Not much, just a hint, but enough to get rid of that basketball look.
You owe me a new keyboard, because I spit my soda out on mine