test content
What is the Arc Client?
Install Arc

Coliseum: What an over-long pile of ...

24

Comments

  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    As I have noted with this and other math puzzles, there is no reward for getting it right and no penalty for failing your way through.

    Also, in a group, you can have one member cycle through the numbers and wait for the numbers to turn green and tell them to stop.

    Still... arithmetic? Really? Is that all they could come up with?

    What ever happened to implementing minigames... ever?
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    Oh believe me, I used my android phone calculator haha.

    As I said, all in all, amazing experience... but math in video games... ugh.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    I loved it! It was VERY different than the norm. I was totally surprised by being "captured" I was like, "where am I?" as my toon said the same thing! Fantastic! The first time i was really surprised by ANY MMO game! Good job!
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    Jasos wrote:
    Oh believe me, I used my android phone calculator haha.

    As I said, all in all, amazing experience... but math in video games... ugh.

    theres only 4 options for each, id say its faster just to go through them in order, dont even bother trying to work it out
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    Aisling wrote:
    Your lack of formatting and spacing prevented me from reading your post. Maybe you had some good points, but I couldnt read past the first line without my head hurting.

    It's called a paragraph. People have been using them for a long time now. Why not look it up here: http://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paragraph.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    Still... arithmetic? Really? Is that all they could come up with?

    What ever happened to implementing minigames... ever?

    That and the interact area sizes for the satellite and the rocks in the desert are my ONLY complaints and just flailing your way through either one should take maybe 5 minutes a piece.

    If it were me, I'd just expand the satellite scan and rocks waypoints out to ludicrously enormous sizes. In the desert, you'll still wind up following Slamek who goes to a set point behind the rock and in space you're still tractored when you scan the satellite so I'd just expand both to ranged of, say, 150 or so. You could make the trigger waypoint or interact distance of those the size of the whole map if you wanted to with no negative consequences.

    With the math game? I would have prefered it if they'd gone for a "guess the number" type approach rather than a math problem. Same net effect but no need to rush to grab a calculator.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    I'm in the middle with this. Yes it felt like a story from TNG (which is good) but some things annoyed me.

    Like I got all the way to the cave you camp in without the 'Hide in the rocks and let the fighter pass' because I had no idea that meant hide in the tiny cluster of rocks off to the side that you couldnt hide an ant in :p There was no map icon or direction help at all with that, they just looked like random rocks on the map.

    I thought the big archway was the rocks it meant :confused:

    But after I walked all the way back and found them, the mission went smoothly.

    I agree initially I felt that I was lost in the desert looking for a horse with no name. Personally I could've used just a bit more of a hint in the right direction. (I don't mean anything as elaborate as a gigantic X that marks the spot of an entrance to catacombs that are located beneath a library In Venice Italy.) A larger bread crumb or two on the mini map would have sufficed nicely.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    Vampir888 wrote: »
    I'm pretty sure it isn't confiscated but disabled because of the dampening field which you deactivate in the room with the gate.

    Story wise it might have been better to say the Dampening Field is reaching as far as to the cave where you are sleeping but not to the other side where the ship crashed.

    Exactly. It wasn't confiscated. I could see it right there in my list of powers, all white and available. If you jump off a height and use the Kit your powers work fine. It wasn't even as if Slyawnek needed anything dramatic, just an analgesic. Stop making poor excuses, Nagus: it was a stupid oversight.

    It was just thoughtless to force the herbs without thinking. It's the same problem as with that annoying, annoying mini-mission where you make a nerve tonic for Cassidy. I'm a doctor, not a bartender or an apothecary. It's the same problem as with the hiding in the rocks - if it were so important for us to hide in those exact rocks, how did we manage to make it to the cave? Getting to the cave and then having to go all the way back to a specific rock to "hide" is ludicrous. And it wouldn't be cold - I have a pet horta who can warm up the rocks.

    The maths was just - weird. I did it in my head as a matter of principle, and got them right - I'm a professional statistician, I'd have been disappointed if I hadn't - but it just seemed, yet again, like a way to artificially extend the length of the mission without adding much content. It was all just drifting around, pick up this, pick up that, all dragging on and on and on. The damn thing just wouldn't end. The fight in the arena was quite good, and the music, of course, was a nice touch, but without powers melee combat is just a question of banging 1, 2 and 3 in quick succession to get the hits in and trigger the power moves.

    MillyBun, you said that somebody had worked hard on it, but I'd say yes and no. Somebody had bolted together an interesting plot, and then somebody else had got their grubby fingers all over it and added in a million useless micro-tasks that dragged it out unbearably. It was already too long by the time I walked out of the Arena. I've liked the other episodes in this series. The one in the shuttle was especially ace. But this was bloated and should have had its play-time halved by removing the more boring "collect x items" quests. This is the first time I've come out of an STO mission (other than an STF) and thought: that was a waste of two hours (I've now finished the mission, and the ending was a predictable, clich
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    mykey1982 wrote: »
    you mean like the uncommon/rare/epic melee weapon you get towards the end of the arena? ;).

    Wait, what? :O
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    What ever happened to implementing minigames... ever?

    Have you noticed how long it takes them just to design a new bridge or uniform? Mini-game? ha! You want poker? Pffft. That's only the most basic of freeware computer programs that has been around since the DOS days. Getting something like that in STO is going to take years.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    I liked this mission a lot. As for the picking the plants, how many Remans have you seen in Starfleet? The race has been an unknown till Nemesis thanks to the Romulans. "But its been x number of years since time of Nemesis." To that I say true but, look at STVI. Bones was unable to save the Klingon Chansellor because he did not know of the anatomy. How long did the Federation know of the Klingons? Over a hundred years if you see Enterprise as a valid time in trek history.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    Have you noticed how long it takes them just to design a new bridge or uniform? Mini-game? ha! You want poker? Pffft. That's only the most basic of freeware computer programs that has been around since the DOS days. Getting something like that in STO is going to take years.

    Didn't Cryptic consult with the Atari published racing MMO that includes Poker? I have a feeling that part of why Poker came up as a subject in STO was because of that.

    I maintain if they do Poker, I don't want it as a cellphone game in a window but want the cinematic camera to be positioned in the center of the table and pivot around to each participant as it's their turn and, unless they're a Vulcan, android or maybe Gorn, they have a tell which they must press a button quickly to turn into a bluff.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    Still... arithmetic? Really? Is that all they could come up with?

    What ever happened to implementing minigames... ever?

    The resources are probably being put towards the Foundry and Ground Combat changes, also the AI for the giant sandworm probably ate into programming resources this week (there isn't a similar NPC, aside from possibly placeable turrets).

    I'd love to see more minigames - they're a long ways coming (especially since two were originally made way back when but one was dropped until they could "redesign it").

    If I had to bet on progress finally being made for gameplay-oriented minigames, I'd say that after the Foundry gets out the door, some progress would hopefully start. Dstahl did mention they're short on programmers a few weeks back too.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    It was a good episode... ran it four times now... Not sure what all the ranting is about... I assume it's just what some people do for a living =P

    Devs: Great job... Love the whole series so far... I'll save my complaints for other stuff, nothing but love for the effort and marked improvements from ep to ep.... And my pretty blue sword =P
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    Have you noticed how long it takes them just to design a new bridge or uniform? Mini-game? ha! You want poker? Pffft. That's only the most basic of freeware computer programs that has been around since the DOS days. Getting something like that in STO is going to take years.

    In Cryptic's defence, you'd probably be a bit annoyed if they just provided you with something that looked like it was made in the DOS days.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    I think the only issue on my end was that the waypoints are nigh invisible on the minimap. They didn't contrast with the landscape and had they worked right the first time, it would've addressed the issue.

    Also, adding a way to skip the flower-picking for science officers would've been nice.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    I think the only issue on my end was that the waypoints are nigh invisible on the minimap. They didn't contrast with the landscape and had they worked right the first time, it would've addressed the issue.

    Also, adding a way to skip the flower-picking for science officers would've been nice.

    Darren, you're a Foundry guru... and while neither of us has access to the raw dev tools, would you agree with me that (assuming the mechanics of waypoints and interact distances are the same), the mission looks like they could just balloon the waypoint size for the rock in the desert and the interact distance for the satellite to cartoonishly large sizes?

    Take the rock objective. What happens if they were to enlarge that waypoint to 250 meters? Well... you'd trigger it and Slamek would run to his spot behind the rock, right? Then your next objective is to talk to Slamek and, well... He's behind that rock. Considerably less confusion.

    Does that make sense to you?
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    It seems a little strange that some players complain about having to actually do some things in a mission, or that they missed finding the place to hide because it was difficult. I also had some troubles the second time through. I had to move my map around, zoom in and out, go back to the start and I finally found it showing on the minimap. I would say that this worked as intended mostly because getting lost in the desert is easy.

    Why is it that some players want everything simple and easy and then complain because it was not entertaining? This type of person will never be happy with anything requiring effort and I would suspect of being a member of a younger generation that gets everything immediately and never had to wait for or earn anything.

    So what if it took some time for you to do? Did you think it was a little odd that you had to travel so far with out finding your objective? Did you despair that you had gotten lost and had to back-track? So your nice Starfleet Kits didn't help with your objectives? So What ? That's life... sorry to break it to you, but we can't always get what we want, but if we try sometimes... we get what we need... get with the program... Your stuff did not work because that is how the mission was made and you don't need any explanation at all... the mission is supposed to take time to complete or else why bother to play at all...

    Why not just find some gold Farmers and buy enough EC to get your items from the exchange or buy a ton of Atari Points and get everything from the C-store.. or better yet... get your Mom to play the mission for you so you don't need to bother with any of it at all.

    Could you clue us into what it is that you really want? We generally will never have the answers to all of the questions... that is the Mystery of Life... this is not CSI or Murder She Wrote or Power Rangers.

    I was very impressed with all of the new assets in this mission... New melee weapons, the music from Amok Time was awesome, all the maps, the ships flying overhead, new beasties to fight, the plethora of cut-scenes and voice-overs... the lack of technobabble and over-explanation helped create a sense of immersion that goes with the Trek traditions.

    I'm glad we did not have an "explainer" standing there telling us every little thing, but had to use the branching dialogue to get there instead, or go outside of the mission objectives and try to find out for ourselves from the consoles and Log Entries.

    Hooray for some math puzzles... these seemed very simplified and dumbed down for the masses and did not require any skills as a multiple guess format was available. The map was small enough that the running around was not too bad to endure and I felt that the whole satellite segment was well executed.

    Overall this mission raises the bar for Cryptic Missions as a whole and begs the question about the remaining episode being able rise to the same level.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    Darren, you're a Foundry guru... and while neither of us has access to the raw dev tools, would you agree with me that (assuming the mechanics of waypoints and interact distances are the same), the mission looks like they could just balloon the waypoint size for the rock in the desert and the interact distance for the satellite to cartoonishly large sizes?

    Take the rock objective. What happens if they were to enlarge that waypoint to 250 meters? Well... you'd trigger it and Slamek would run to his spot behind the rock, right? Then your next objective is to talk to Slamek and, well... He's behind that rock. Considerably less confusion.

    Does that make sense to you?

    The Foundry automatically generates waypoints (if you toggle it visible). It does so by drawing a spherical volume.

    That said, the sphere already encompassed more area than the rock occupied. Any larger and you could complete the objects a few meters away from the rock piles - which would look (and feel) silly.

    I admit, I went to the wrong rocks the first time. However, the problem is that the draw circles on objectives don't contrast enough and don't scale well on the minimap for huge maps (they look tiny because the map is showing a huge area).

    Increasing the weighting of objective circles (and possibly changing the color ) would be a nice fix. Alternatively, using solid icons on larger maps might work (but wouldn't work on small ones, as we saw with part two on the Romulan Mining colony).
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    Yeah, it's long. A little longer than I prefer, but that's why it's worth so many merits/skillpoints. Longer mission = bigger reward

    But there's a few too many objectives on each of the maps. A map transition after the night in the cave would've been a good way to move the mission to the next map so we're not stuck constantly scrolling the mission tracker down/having to set a ridiculously large size for the mission tracker every time there's something new to do.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    But if you did complete the objective without reaching the rock, Slamek would still run TO the rock and you'd have to talk to him for the next objective. Would it feel that silly?
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    But if you did complete the objective without reaching the rock, Slamek would still run TO the rock and you'd have to talk to him for the next objective. Would it feel that silly?

    Yes - because the cutscene would've shown you outside the rocks and Slmaek inside them.

    It'd be the STO equivalent of Mass Effect 2's "shepard can drink beer with a helmet on" issue.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    It seems a little strange that some players complain about having to actually do some things in a mission, or that they missed finding the place to hide because it was difficult. I also had some troubles the second time through. I had to move my map around, zoom in and out, go back to the start and I finally found it showing on the minimap. I would say that this worked as intended mostly because getting lost in the desert is easy.

    Why is it that some players want everything simple and easy and then complain because it was not entertaining? This type of person will never be happy with anything requiring effort and I would suspect of being a member of a younger generation that gets everything immediately and never had to wait for or earn anything.

    So what if it took some time for you to do? Did you think it was a little odd that you had to travel so far with out finding your objective? Did you despair that you had gotten lost and had to back-track? So your nice Starfleet Kits didn't help with your objectives? So What ? That's life... sorry to break it to you, but we can't always get what we want, but if we try sometimes... we get what we need... get with the program... Your stuff did not work because that is how the mission was made and you don't need any explanation at all... the mission is supposed to take time to complete or else why bother to play at all...

    Why not just find some gold Farmers and buy enough EC to get your items from the exchange or buy a ton of Atari Points and get everything from the C-store.. or better yet... get your Mom to play the mission for you so you don't need to bother with any of it at all.

    Could you clue us into what it is that you really want? We generally will never have the answers to all of the questions... that is the Mystery of Life... this is not CSI or Murder She Wrote or Power Rangers.

    I was very impressed with all of the new assets in this mission... New melee weapons, the music from Amok Time was awesome, all the maps, the ships flying overhead, new beasties to fight, the plethora of cut-scenes and voice-overs... the lack of technobabble and over-explanation helped create a sense of immersion that goes with the Trek traditions.

    I'm glad we did not have an "explainer" standing there telling us every little thing, but had to use the branching dialogue to get there instead, or go outside of the mission objectives and try to find out for ourselves from the consoles and Log Entries.

    Hooray for some math puzzles... these seemed very simplified and dumbed down for the masses and did not require any skills as a multiple guess format was available. The map was small enough that the running around was not too bad to endure and I felt that the whole satellite segment was well executed.

    Overall this mission raises the bar for Cryptic Missions as a whole and begs the question about the remaining episode being able rise to the same level.

    lol always nice to hate on the dumb modern youth, but it's undoubtly right though. That's why we have forums to let them vent their impatient anger and then continue paying up afterwards, like the OP here who seem to have cooled off already after dropping the rage bomb :P
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    " Oh noes. I has ta use mai brains...dis sux....weers da pewpew?"

    This response may seem mean and I apologize but, that is what I am seeing out of some of the complaints.

    My biggest complaint in the mission: Why is the Engineer hunting for food while the Tacical is collecting firewood. That seems to be a misallocation of resources.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    Epic is all i have to say about this episode and the this story line as a whole. Cryptic you have done an outstanding job thus far. I look foward to the next arc and to those that whined and moaned about this weeks episode grow up. I am so sick of whiners that say STO should be this and that, the puzzle was hard wah wah wah. Oh please dudes grow up also keep off the devs back they are busting their buns to make this a great game. Great Job Gozer Stahl Stormshade All you guys have been doing amazing. Live long and prosper
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    I did not do the engineering part but I would guess that an engineer could make a trap to catch food, and a dumb Tac could figure out how to chop wood. Could have just used Sehlat Carcass for food and to hold water as well... but we would not dare to offend any cat lovers or captains that had Sehlat pets. I would normally think that the cactus would have the water already in it, as this is what cactus roots were supposedly good for in a survival situation.

    Oh the joy of the Nit-picking... coulda, shoulda, woulda...

    I thought it was fine the way it was presented... at least we were not trapped in the desert with Neelix or Wesley Crusher...
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    Yes - because the cutscene would've shown you outside the rocks and Slmaek inside them.

    It'd be the STO equivalent of Mass Effect 2's "shepard can drink beer with a helmet on" issue.

    Cutscene? I don't remember any cutscene, just him using AI to run to the rock. If he ran there ahead of me, I would interpret it as him leading me there which I think he should do if he's going to be particular about WHICH rock.

    Actually, when there IS a cut scene, I've noticed that you get auto-ported to the correct position. (For example: I let my group complete the final ship objective while I was behind where Hakeev would beam in and I got shifted into the crashed ship while my targ pet remained behind.)

    But I don't think there's a cut scene there. I think he just runs to the rock and would do so with or without you. And if there is a cut scene, you'd just get ported there after an animation of you running there.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    Exactly. It wasn't confiscated. I could see it right there in my list of powers, all white and available. If you jump off a height and use the Kit your powers work fine. It wasn't even as if Slyawnek needed anything dramatic, just an analgesic. Stop making poor excuses, Nagus: it was a stupid oversight.

    It was just thoughtless to force the herbs without thinking. It's the same problem as with that annoying, annoying mini-mission where you make a nerve tonic for Cassidy. I'm a doctor, not a bartender or an apothecary. It's the same problem as with the hiding in the rocks - if it were so important for us to hide in those exact rocks, how did we manage to make it to the cave? Getting to the cave and then having to go all the way back to a specific rock to "hide" is ludicrous. And it wouldn't be cold - I have a pet horta who can warm up the rocks.

    The maths was just - weird. I did it in my head as a matter of principle, and got them right - I'm a professional statistician, I'd have been disappointed if I hadn't - but it just seemed, yet again, like a way to artificially extend the length of the mission without adding much content. It was all just drifting around, pick up this, pick up that, all dragging on and on and on. The damn thing just wouldn't end. The fight in the arena was quite good, and the music, of course, was a nice touch, but without powers melee combat is just a question of banging 1, 2 and 3 in quick succession to get the hits in and trigger the power moves.

    MillyBun, you said that somebody had worked hard on it, but I'd say yes and no. Somebody had bolted together an interesting plot, and then somebody else had got their grubby fingers all over it and added in a million useless micro-tasks that dragged it out unbearably. It was already too long by the time I walked out of the Arena. I've liked the other episodes in this series. The one in the shuttle was especially ace. But this was bloated and should have had its play-time halved by removing the more boring "collect x items" quests. This is the first time I've come out of an STO mission (other than an STF) and thought: that was a waste of two hours (I've now finished the mission, and the ending was a predictable, clich
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    Jasos wrote:
    I put forth that you should never, EVER have to do Math in a video game.

    Not ever.

    Other than that and a few minor annoyances such as missing the rocks to hide in and fetch-questing, it has been a pretty amazing series so far.
    This is why you should learn math:
    Because someone may put a math question in a video game. :P
    Kynreilia wrote:
    I was lazy and used a calculator. :cool:
    Me too. :D
    normally id agree because not everybody is a maths wiz or has a calculator to hand but luckily you can do the whole thing by trial and error. in fact thats probably a quicker way than the people who spent time working it out.
    Everyone has a calculator at hand when playing STO: Their computer. Just minimize the window, load up Calc.exe and go. :P


    As for the kit things, I can understand why it wasn't disabled. For starters you'd have to disable all kits which wouldn't make sense once you got out of the dampening field. Then they'd have to have some kind of branching objective where, if you had a medical kit (what if you had one in your inventory?) you could bypass it. That would take a lot of coding and it wouldn't be worth it.

    The easiest thing to do is ignore it or make up something.
    Like say... the healing kit wouldn't work on him because he wasn't wearing the special armor that your BOs wear so you couldn't actually heal him.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    Here's a really good reason Cryptic just a dampening field on your weapon and kits rather than "taking them away from you" or disabling the kits in the mission...

    Doesn't matter who the design team is, there would be people, who through either a bug or the players own stupidity, would not be able to get their gear back, or it would remain disabled.

    THAT, is a $%!^ storm that Cryptic doesn;t want.
This discussion has been closed.