I agree. That's why I'm really hoping they hit the nail on the head with the Exploration revamp in Season 4. A decent exploration system that actually feels like exploring would be the most beneficial thing for this game right now, IMHO.
Yesterday's giant desert map was a good start. I want more massive ground maps that I can acutally explore. I hope that there will be somethign like that in Season 4's exploration revamp.
I wasn't aware they were revamping exploration space in season 4. Seems to me that such a revamp would take a good year at least.
I also agree with Nagus about making exploration like deferi sector doesn't seem very exploration like. Unless these races are at first hidden and unknown. And we have to seek them out. And your first few runs through that sector are no gaurentee you will discover them right away.
i for one am wondering when they are going to drastically increase the team. i mean they keep saying they are doing good, and that they are happy with subscripts (numbers) and in the past they said that as they hit these goals we would see an increase in the dev team. and yes, they do add one guy here and one guy there, but honestly, ive been hearing of more people leaving (player wise) than coming, and i think its time for cryptic to put its money where its mouth is. the powers to be are making money hand over fist with this game (giving the c store and all the things that have been made for it) and if the game truley is growing (player wise) than subscripts are also adding to the profit of the game.
i think cryptic is walking a very fine line with failing and being successfull. everytime they release a game changer, fifteen other things come up. this is due to the lack of content at launch. there is nothing currently that keeps me playing day after day. literally i have done it all. and i dont want to hear about the foundry cause its still not live on holodeck (which is where i spend 90 percent of my time) and i think its only putting a band aid on a gushing wound. after a few months or so there will be a drop in the amount of people taking the time to make quality missions, and then after 4 or 5 months it will be back to where we are now.
now im not trying to be a nay sayer, i love this game and wish for everything to suddenly work out, (i have quit wow and devoted my time to this game (since i love star trek and the game has potential). but when for almost the last six months i have found myself logging on night after night with nothing to do in game, or bored of playing the same old content, i find myself looking for other means of entertainment.
dstahl, cryptic, and atari would be wise to double the team, take advantage of having people here now, dont waite till its too late and then act. this is one of the top mmo's out there right now, and there is no excuse for it to have the smallest staff out of all the other mmo's currently out there.
remember old republic is creaping up on you, and they have already devoted alot more development and a much larger team than cryptic and atari has. i prefer star trek over star wars, but when it releases, if this game is not up to snuff, then i (probably like more than half of the player base currently playing sto) will probably jump ship.. we will only waite so many years for sto to get around to being a proper mmo. and im shocked that it hasnt fallen yet (and glad since i do love star trek and i like where the game is going, (but the key word has always been going, it needs to get there already... lol)
It was over 2 months between the featured episode series 2 and 3. This was due to the work being done on Season 3. Now we're finding out we arent going to see the next FE series before Season 4. If they keep up this trend, we're only going to be getting 1 featured episode series ever 3-4 months. That is simply not good enough.
Uhmm...
Did you not take a moment to smell the roses in these missions? Did you happen to see the amazing attention to the smallest details? Did you miss the gorgeous desert terrain in the last segment of Coliseum? Or that giant Worm in the arena? (mass effect baby!!! ) That desert terrain, alone, must have taken many man hours to create and customize..... Also look at some of the new game implementations thanks to Cloaked Intentions (better infrastructure for shuttles, cool new melee weapons, etc..)
I totally hear what you are saying and I wish these episodes really did come out weekly, one series starting right after the next but when I look at the level of QUALITY and attention to detail, I'm willing to wait a little longer between series.
Uhmm...
Did you not take a moment to smell the roses in these missions? Did you happen to see the amazing attention to the smallest details? Did you miss the gorgeous desert terrain in the last segment of Coliseum? Or that giant Worm in the arena? (mass effect baby!!! ) That desert terrain, alone, must have taken many man hours to create and customize..... Also look at some of the new game implementations thanks to Cloaked Intentions (better infrastructure for shuttles, cool new melee weapons, etc..)
I totally hear what you are saying and I wish these episodes really did come out weekly, one series starting right after the next but when I look at the level of QUALITY and attention to detail, I'm willing to wait a little longer between series.
As I've stated previously, the quality > quantity argument is really only valid until you run out of content. Because at that point, even a mediocre quality mission is better than no mission at all. In response to your last statement, I'm curious to know how long you personally could consider too long a wait even for high quality missions? 1 month? 2 months? 3 months? 6 months? A year?
As I've stated previously, the quality > quantity argument is really only valid until you run out of content. Because at that point, even a mediocre quality mission is better than no mission at all. In response to your last statement, I'm curious to know how long you personally could consider too long a wait even for high quality missions? 1 month? 2 months? 3 months? 6 months? A year?
By that logic, TV studios would shorten their series to be 15 minutes long instead of an hour and then play them year round.
I'm afraid your arguement is a bit specious, as its perfectly acceptable think that "High Quality missions in batches" is > "Lower quality in a 'stream'" You're completely ignoring the "anticipation" factor. Even if they COULD make FEs once per week, it would be wise to take breaks anyone, because after a while the constant stream of FEs would just become pedestrian and unremarkable.
Besides, FEs are NOT the only activity to participate in in-game, and not even the only content being added. And even the foundry will "count" torwards being more content, even ifs 'user generated'
I personally hope they jump into a new FE right away and get it out before Season 4, rather than waiting for new features and such. I don't even care if its brings a little less "bling' with it and is more story-driven if that makes it faster to make.
It would bridge the gap between now and Season 4 nicely, and then we'll have lots of new toys to play with and you'll have time to really put a lot of hours into Features Series 5.
Besides, FEs are NOT the only activity to participate in in-game, and not even the only content being added.
I realize that people have different definitions of the word "content". However when I use that term I am generally referring to missions, and FEs have been the main source of new missions this game has received since they were introduced.
considering how awesome this series has been im prepared to accept longer gaps to make sure later series are just as good if not better than this one. but if they can get another series in before season 4 that would be my preference.
if not id like to see a large number of remastered episodes or quite a few daily/patrols/sorties.
I wasn't aware they were revamping exploration space in season 4. Seems to me that such a revamp would take a good year at least.
I also agree with Nagus about making exploration like deferi sector doesn't seem very exploration like. Unless these races are at first hidden and unknown. And we have to seek them out. And your first few runs through that sector are no gaurentee you will discover them right away.
Well, STO wiki has it listed as part of Season 4. I'm assuming they have a reliable source.
considering how awesome this series has been im prepared to accept longer gaps to make sure later series are just as good if not better than this one. but if they can get another series in before season 4 that would be my preference.
if not id like to see a large number of remastered episodes or quite a few daily/patrols/sorties.
I'm curious to know how long you personally could consider too long a wait even for high quality missions? 1 month? 2 months? 3 months? 6 months? A year?
I'm curious to know how long you personally could consider too long a wait even for high quality missions? 1 month? 2 months? 3 months? 6 months? A year?
it depends on what i got in between. if i had 10-15 remastered eps and sorties/dailies or whatever id probably be wait a good 5 or 6 months maybe longer if the other stuff is good enough.
if i got next to nothing in its place then after 3 months id be getting a touch annoyed.
i dont believe they are delaying series 4 simply so they can all put their feet up, i expect something decent and fun to do in the interim.
i dont believe they are delaying series 4 simply so they can all put their feet up, i expect something decent and fun to do in the interim.
Neither do I, and I havent seen anyone say that that. The comments I have seen seem to suggest some people think that the FEs should be a higher priority than some of the other things they are working on though.
Neither do I, and I havent seen anyone say that that.
good as i was not suggesting anybody had said that either.
The comments I have seen seem to suggest some people think that the FEs should be a higher priority than some of the other things they are working on though.
but if they can get another series in before season 4 that would be my preference.
i agree FE are more important to me personally than the other stuff, but im also personally not too concerned if there is a delay, if the stuff we get in its place is decent. its not my first choice but ill live with it.
Dstahl can confirm this if he likes, but I'm pretty sure the majority of players dont PvP. Dalies are not new content, they are replayable old content. I dont know what crafting missions means, so I cant comment on that. But like I said in my last post, what keeps people playing a game is new things to do, not constantly changing how the mechanics of the game work.
Let's go on your premise and dismiss the other content being added to the game.
4-5 weekly's per year is 20-25 episodes. That's right in line with the production of most television shows.
I suppose you could argue that you don't have to pay to watch network television, I guess you could be getting it over the air. There are no commercials during the weekly. Paid television, you typically get less than 20-25 episodes. If you don't enjoy any of the other content in the game and don't wish to expand the weekly's by leveling alts than do what you do in between seasons of your favorite television show, which is to turn the channel. (i.e. - play another game till the next weekly hits.)
As I've stated previously, the quality > quantity argument is really only valid until you run out of content. Because at that point, even a mediocre quality mission is better than no mission at all. In response to your last statement, I'm curious to know how long you personally could consider too long a wait even for high quality missions? 1 month? 2 months? 3 months? 6 months? A year?
I can see your point, and yet, at the same time, I don't think you're following everything through to logical conclusions on all levels. To whit: If you go for a constant stream of mediocre quality, that is ALL you will ever get. If that is to be the standard and we don't ask for more, this will never be more than another mediocre MMO with nothing particular to recommend it.
You aren't going to get the current number of high-quality episodes PLUS a bunch of mediocre ones. Why? Because if they had the time/resources to do that, why aren't they? They're saying they're already working their fingers to the bone to get out what we're seeing now. If you go for more missions of lower quality, do not expect to see stuff this good ever again.
To me, that would be a tragedy. For the most part, I am content to continue at the pace we're at currently. I would love it if they'd hire on a second team which could pump out your volume of 'mediocre missions' while the current team continues to work on the high quality stuff they are now. But any way you slice it, unless they actually do hire that second team, I don't see ditching the great-quality standards as a good idea at all.
I think you all need to consider what you are REALLY asking for here. Some say the Foundry is pointless, because the missions arent "official". But then they say the Dev Foundry missions would be great too. Really? The devs have the god like dev tools, and they can literally create from scratch, and add whatever bells and whistles they want to their missions. All the foundry authors have is the Lego pieces the dev team created. What would make a Foundry mission created by devs, using just the tools us mere mortals have, better than a foundry author? I dont want devs wasting time with the foundry tools to MAKE stories, I just want them continuosly adding to and improving my box of Foundry Legos.
I want the devs to make quality story driven missions, AND all the bells and whistles. We certainly dont want more "official" missions from Cryptic in the year, that are anything less than phenominal. Would you really want an "official" mission that had new bells and whistles, but fell totally flat in the story? Then you would bash them for that. Im starting to understand better what the deal is at Cryptic. We get upset, myself included, because we feel the writing isnt Trek enough, or the dialogue is dry, or the mission gets exposed for several plot holes. But, look, they have 50 million other things to think about during the week. So, it makes it 100 times harder to develop a good Trek script that can stand up to the collective Trek knowledge of the fanbase, then it would be for ONE Foundry author to make a story of equal quality and be critically acclaimed. Why? Because the Foundry authors have the luxury of ONLY having to think about a good Trek story, not the other 50 million programming duties in their week. One on one, a good Foundry author could smoke the dev writers, because the devs are severely constrained for time.
Id rather the devs take as long as necessary to develop great missions that CAN stand up to the Trek fan critics, then feel pressured to release content and have all their JJ Abrams plot holes exposed before the Saturday is over. The dev team is driven by the same creative fire any foundry author would be driven by, and thats just to create for the simple pleasure of creating. So Im sure they are trying to hit it out of the park with every swing of the bat. They just dont get the time to practice as long during the week at JUST the writing, so they are writing missions with both hands tied behind their back. Even then, we see improvement with each new episode.
I remember on one of the TNG DVD eps or movies, someone says Gene would always ask the script writers, "but what is it about?" The Foundry authors can write great stuff too, and will get better in time as their Lego box increases. All thats REALLY required to make a Trek fan truly happy is the STORY. Not the bells and whistles. Thats why I love the Foundry concept. It gives us fans the ability to stand toe to toe with our missions vs the dev missions. All we have to do is out write them, and its much easier for us because we have more time to dream up all that good stuff.
I and obviously a few others have offered our services to just be writers on the Cryptic staff, whose only job would have been to just sit and write and be Trek enough. And I would have done it for much less than 80k a year, lol. So, since we cant get officially ON the payroll, we do have the ability to show how good we think we are. As someone said in this thread or another recently, "if you think you can do better, the Foundry awaits you". Well, since I got rejected, Ive got a big chip on my shoulder, and Im sure a few others do as well. But, the foundry gives us a chance to prove we ARE that good. STO fans WANT and NEED competition in the writing wars, because competition is good for the consumer. When Foundry authors start becoming more famous than the dev team, maybe thats when they DO get a call on the phone with a Cryptic job offer to buy off the competition, lol.
Dont knock the foundry, it IS the answer to the fears in this thread and the non stop unquenchable thirst for new Trek content. It doesnt look like Cryptic is going to get the amount of staff to produce some new story every other day any time soon. So until then, look to the foundry missions to satisfy your thirst. If you cant be happy with extremely well written Foundry missions that dont have all the dev bells and whistles, then I question whether you are a REAL Star Trek fan at all.
Dont knock the foundry, it IS the answer to the fears in this thread and the non stop unquenchable thirst for new Trek content. It doesnt look like Cryptic is going to get the amount of staff to produce some new story every other day any time soon. So until then, look to the foundry missions to satisfy your thirst. If you cant be happy with extremely well written Foundry missions that dont have all the dev bells and whistles, then I question whether you are a REAL Star Trek fan at all.
I agree that the Foundry is an amazing system and I cant wait for it to go live. However, because the Devs have stated that the Foundry is not a replacement for official content, then it cannot be used as an arguing point in discussions about official content. As I said previously, if they want to change their official stance and say that the Foundry is in fact a substitute for official content, then fine. But until they say that, then their previous comments stand and the Foundry has nothing to do with any discussions about official content.
I agree that the Foundry is an amazing system and I cant wait for it to go live. However, because the Devs have stated that the Foundry is not a replacement for official content, then it cannot be used as an arguing point in discussions about official content. As I said previously, if they want to change their official stance and say that the Foundry is in fact a substitute for official content, then fine. But until they say that, then their previous comments stand and the Foundry has nothing to do with any discussions about official content.
You know, I never liked Ferengis, lol. No one is saying that the devs should shove ALL the new content on the shoulders of the fans who are doing it for free. By creating the foundry, the devs realised they cant possibly keep up with a STAR TREK fan's thirst for content. Of course they are going to TRY and produce missions themselves too. Who wants to be a mindless drafter, when the architects are having all the creative fun. They WANT to create good stuff too. When you look at it this way, they are being EXTREMELY unselfish by letting mere fans contribute to the content of THIER game. With the hope that many of us good and casual writers can fill those gaps (Sun - Fri)on an unofficial level, by giving you good Trek content, in the time its taking them to literally design and draw stuff from NOTHING. And I think they realise what I just wrote above, the fans literally COULD beat them in the writing competition, and yet they STILL give us the chance to prove it.
Stop trying to hold their heads down in the dunk tank with their words. They ARE "breaking" in a way, because they are asking the fans to come help them. They know their budget, they know their time constraints, and they know they serve the best sci fi fans in the business, so they let US help. Isnt that what Star Trek taught us? When a fellow man reaches out for help, you help him, regardless of his personal faults? Nagus, were you WATCHING the same show we were? Try to SEE the BIG picture here.
When a fellow man reaches out for help, you help him, regardless of his personal faults? Nagus, were you WATCHING the same show we were? Try to SEE the BIG picture here.
Wow, talk about going off on a tangent. If you want to discuss the meaning of Trek, I suggest creating a new thread in Ten Forward. This thread, however, is about the amount of time between FE series. And per the Devs own comments, the Foundry and UGC is not a replacement for official content. So until they change their stance on that, then the Foundry has nothing to do with discussions about official content.
Wow, talk about going off on a tangent. If you want to discuss the meaning of Trek, I suggest creating a new thread in Ten Forward. This thread, however, is about the amount of time between FE series. And per the Devs own comments, the Foundry and UGC is not a replacement for official content. So until they change their stance on that, then the Foundry has nothing to do with discussions about official content.
The team we have is literally working extra hours every week to deliver as much content and features as we can as fast as we can. There are a lot of areas of the game that we are working on simultaneously and we have a ton of work to do in order to deliver Season 4. We will continue to make feature episode series as often as we can. Since August we will have shipped 3 series along with all of the other features we've put into the game.
I know - they are awesome. I want more too. We will continue to work as hard as possible to deliver.
Sounds to me like you have an awesome, but small team. :cool:
Hire more workers, work fewer hours.
How about a C-Store pledge drive? Question: at $25.00 a donation, how many donations would you need to hire a new programmer for 1 year? I'd be happy to shell out a one time booster donation of $25 bucks if it meant an extra set of hands creating content and programming new systems.
Jack and I talk about this a lot and I have faith that if there is a way for us to get more people on STO, he will find it. He is the one who interfaces directly with Atari on these issues and the one who fights for our budgets etc.
Speaking of Jack, he and I have a good relationship and enough isn't said about the efforts that man goes through to get the resources that I do have. He really likes STO and plays even more than I do. Some of his suggestions are those little cool things that make these Feature Episodes so great.
To add a bit of personal commentary to all this. I imagine it must be very hard to go from a small independent studio to a subsidiary of another company. Having to work with a set of new upper management and keep the studio on a steady course is a challenge for sure.
Personally, I really do feel Cryptic is doing absolutely awesome with the resources we've been given and our contribution to Atari is public knowledge.
So to answer your question... if there is a way to get more resources for STO... my trust is with Jack because he cares and is trying.
It's great to know that Statesman himself is still in the fight for justice! Seriously though... if the reports of how well STO is doing for Atari are true then you guys really DESERVE to have a larger team. So I'm glad Emmert is making efforts in this area.
There are a couple "Infrogames Acquires Cryptic Studios" memos out there which basically say Atari purchased your studio because you can leverage minimal resources using the proprietary Cryptic Game Engine and deliver high quality MMO's on-time and on-budget within 18-24 month cycles.
One of my biggest fears for STO was that Atari actually WANTS to keep your team small so they can continue to gain maximum revenues from minimal resources. That development model seems to have paid off. Hopefully Atari can see that it will pay off even more if your team grows.
Anyway, either I'm a Betazoid who sensed this going on in Jack's mind or I'm a just another speculator who could be totally off base.
Please quote which specific statements I have made that you are referring to.
Its called reading between YOUR lines. You keep demanding an answer to "WHY CANT YOU MAKE ME A NEW EPISODE FOR EVERY WEEK OF THE YEAR?". Dan is trying to answer you best he can by saying they ARE trying hard, and most reasonable fans would read his answers in this thread alone as basically being Sulu in that the USS Cryptic's crew is telling him "we're going to fly the ship apart sir" and Captain Stahl is yelling back "THEN FLY HER APART!!" As he says, what more can he say? A reasonable fan would see that the foundry IS contributing to new content, in an unofficial way. We wouldnt even HAVE the foundry if they hadnt put a bunch of work into that too, but you seem to refuse to give them credit for that. When Dan quips "unreasonable fanbase", he's talking about YOU Grand Nagus. Stop riding his jock so hard, that he wants to quit Cryptic and then we get some new director who DOESNT talk to us or listen to us.
So what your saying is, I havent actually said the things you are claiming I have, and you are just making things up to support your rant? Or maybe you are confusing my posts with others in this thread. I'm happy to discuss things I have actually said, if you want to quote a specific statement.
One of my biggest fears for STO was that Atari actually WANTS to keep your team small so they can continue to gain maximum revenues from minimal resources. That development model seems to have paid off. Hopefully Atari can see that it will pay off even more if your team grows.
It's somewhat out of turn whenever I say this but, as an outside observer, I think that is exactly what Atari is doing until they get back in the black, which I expect they will be by this time next year, and then, if they're smart, they'll cautiously reinvest into expanding and pumping more life into their biggest money makers.
I agree that the Foundry is an amazing system and I cant wait for it to go live. However, because the Devs have stated that the Foundry is not a replacement for official content, then it cannot be used as an arguing point in discussions about official content. As I said previously, if they want to change their official stance and say that the Foundry is in fact a substitute for official content, then fine. But until they say that, then their previous comments stand and the Foundry has nothing to do with any discussions about official content.
Theres your specific quote, where you refuse to acknowledge ANY role the Foundry could play in satisfying your content desires until Cyptic FLAT OUT says it. By CREATING the foundry, Cryptic IS saying that. But many here dont want to acknowledge Foundry content because it wasnt made by the hands of the devs themselves. Even though THEY designed it, thats not "official" enough. Dan isnt going to come out and flat out say that, because all you looking for blood wont LET him say that because you are already saying ANY story not written by a dev, could never be good enough for you. When Star Trek has always been more about the story, then what you see in set design and CGI. At least thats how they started. I and probably a few others see what Dan is implying in regards to the foundry and his team's ability to pump out "official" stuff. He HAS to walk that line carefully, because of fans like you who crucify him if he leans too far one way or the other.
Theres your specific quote, where you refuse to acknowledge ANY role the Foundry could play in satisfying your content desires until Cyptic FLAT OUT says it.
That is incorrect. I have stated many times that the Foundry is going to change this game in a hugely positive way, and have done quite a bit of mission creation and testing myself. I cant wait for it to come out. However, this thread is regarding official content, specifically the FEs.
But many here dont want to acknowledge Foundry content because it wasnt made by the hands of the devs themselves. Even though THEY designed it, thats not "official" enough.
It was the Devs themselves who have repeatedly made the statement that the Foundry isnt a replacement for official content. They are the ones that drew the distinction between the two, not me. I'm simply going on their own statements until they change them.
Now, if you disagree with the distinction that they drew between the Foundry and official content, you'll have to take that up with them.
you are already saying ANY story not written by a dev, could never be good enough for you.
Once again, you are wrong. I have thoroughly enjoyed quite a few player created missions thus far, and look forward to enjoying even more when the Foundry is opened up to the entire playerbase on holodeck.
Talk about scaling expectations. I remember when there weren't any featured episodes at all, and everyone got really excited when Zinc announced that we could use our tricorder to help find the scanny things.
going bac a bit on this thread; i remember that too, that was a good day (this game has come a long way)
Comments
I wasn't aware they were revamping exploration space in season 4. Seems to me that such a revamp would take a good year at least.
I also agree with Nagus about making exploration like deferi sector doesn't seem very exploration like. Unless these races are at first hidden and unknown. And we have to seek them out. And your first few runs through that sector are no gaurentee you will discover them right away.
i think cryptic is walking a very fine line with failing and being successfull. everytime they release a game changer, fifteen other things come up. this is due to the lack of content at launch. there is nothing currently that keeps me playing day after day. literally i have done it all. and i dont want to hear about the foundry cause its still not live on holodeck (which is where i spend 90 percent of my time) and i think its only putting a band aid on a gushing wound. after a few months or so there will be a drop in the amount of people taking the time to make quality missions, and then after 4 or 5 months it will be back to where we are now.
now im not trying to be a nay sayer, i love this game and wish for everything to suddenly work out, (i have quit wow and devoted my time to this game (since i love star trek and the game has potential). but when for almost the last six months i have found myself logging on night after night with nothing to do in game, or bored of playing the same old content, i find myself looking for other means of entertainment.
dstahl, cryptic, and atari would be wise to double the team, take advantage of having people here now, dont waite till its too late and then act. this is one of the top mmo's out there right now, and there is no excuse for it to have the smallest staff out of all the other mmo's currently out there.
remember old republic is creaping up on you, and they have already devoted alot more development and a much larger team than cryptic and atari has. i prefer star trek over star wars, but when it releases, if this game is not up to snuff, then i (probably like more than half of the player base currently playing sto) will probably jump ship.. we will only waite so many years for sto to get around to being a proper mmo. and im shocked that it hasnt fallen yet (and glad since i do love star trek and i like where the game is going, (but the key word has always been going, it needs to get there already... lol)
Uhmm...
Did you not take a moment to smell the roses in these missions? Did you happen to see the amazing attention to the smallest details? Did you miss the gorgeous desert terrain in the last segment of Coliseum? Or that giant Worm in the arena? (mass effect baby!!!
I totally hear what you are saying and I wish these episodes really did come out weekly, one series starting right after the next but when I look at the level of QUALITY and attention to detail, I'm willing to wait a little longer between series.
As I've stated previously, the quality > quantity argument is really only valid until you run out of content. Because at that point, even a mediocre quality mission is better than no mission at all. In response to your last statement, I'm curious to know how long you personally could consider too long a wait even for high quality missions? 1 month? 2 months? 3 months? 6 months? A year?
By that logic, TV studios would shorten their series to be 15 minutes long instead of an hour and then play them year round.
I'm afraid your arguement is a bit specious, as its perfectly acceptable think that "High Quality missions in batches" is > "Lower quality in a 'stream'" You're completely ignoring the "anticipation" factor. Even if they COULD make FEs once per week, it would be wise to take breaks anyone, because after a while the constant stream of FEs would just become pedestrian and unremarkable.
Besides, FEs are NOT the only activity to participate in in-game, and not even the only content being added. And even the foundry will "count" torwards being more content, even ifs 'user generated'
I personally hope they jump into a new FE right away and get it out before Season 4, rather than waiting for new features and such. I don't even care if its brings a little less "bling' with it and is more story-driven if that makes it faster to make.
It would bridge the gap between now and Season 4 nicely, and then we'll have lots of new toys to play with and you'll have time to really put a lot of hours into Features Series 5.
People do not pay to watch a specific TV show each month like they do to play this game, so that comparison really doesnt jive.
I realize that people have different definitions of the word "content". However when I use that term I am generally referring to missions, and FEs have been the main source of new missions this game has received since they were introduced.
if not id like to see a large number of remastered episodes or quite a few daily/patrols/sorties.
Well, STO wiki has it listed as part of Season 4. I'm assuming they have a reliable source.
I'm curious to know how long you personally could consider too long a wait even for high quality missions? 1 month? 2 months? 3 months? 6 months? A year?
Its discussed in this interview:
http://www.trekradio.net/news/dan-stahl-interview-in-on-demand
it depends on what i got in between. if i had 10-15 remastered eps and sorties/dailies or whatever id probably be wait a good 5 or 6 months maybe longer if the other stuff is good enough.
if i got next to nothing in its place then after 3 months id be getting a touch annoyed.
i dont believe they are delaying series 4 simply so they can all put their feet up, i expect something decent and fun to do in the interim.
Neither do I, and I havent seen anyone say that that. The comments I have seen seem to suggest some people think that the FEs should be a higher priority than some of the other things they are working on though.
good as i was not suggesting anybody had said that either.
yes, which is exactly what i said.
i agree FE are more important to me personally than the other stuff, but im also personally not too concerned if there is a delay, if the stuff we get in its place is decent. its not my first choice but ill live with it.
Let's go on your premise and dismiss the other content being added to the game.
4-5 weekly's per year is 20-25 episodes. That's right in line with the production of most television shows.
I suppose you could argue that you don't have to pay to watch network television, I guess you could be getting it over the air. There are no commercials during the weekly. Paid television, you typically get less than 20-25 episodes. If you don't enjoy any of the other content in the game and don't wish to expand the weekly's by leveling alts than do what you do in between seasons of your favorite television show, which is to turn the channel. (i.e. - play another game till the next weekly hits.)
I can see your point, and yet, at the same time, I don't think you're following everything through to logical conclusions on all levels. To whit: If you go for a constant stream of mediocre quality, that is ALL you will ever get. If that is to be the standard and we don't ask for more, this will never be more than another mediocre MMO with nothing particular to recommend it.
You aren't going to get the current number of high-quality episodes PLUS a bunch of mediocre ones. Why? Because if they had the time/resources to do that, why aren't they? They're saying they're already working their fingers to the bone to get out what we're seeing now. If you go for more missions of lower quality, do not expect to see stuff this good ever again.
To me, that would be a tragedy. For the most part, I am content to continue at the pace we're at currently. I would love it if they'd hire on a second team which could pump out your volume of 'mediocre missions' while the current team continues to work on the high quality stuff they are now. But any way you slice it, unless they actually do hire that second team, I don't see ditching the great-quality standards as a good idea at all.
I want the devs to make quality story driven missions, AND all the bells and whistles. We certainly dont want more "official" missions from Cryptic in the year, that are anything less than phenominal. Would you really want an "official" mission that had new bells and whistles, but fell totally flat in the story? Then you would bash them for that. Im starting to understand better what the deal is at Cryptic. We get upset, myself included, because we feel the writing isnt Trek enough, or the dialogue is dry, or the mission gets exposed for several plot holes. But, look, they have 50 million other things to think about during the week. So, it makes it 100 times harder to develop a good Trek script that can stand up to the collective Trek knowledge of the fanbase, then it would be for ONE Foundry author to make a story of equal quality and be critically acclaimed. Why? Because the Foundry authors have the luxury of ONLY having to think about a good Trek story, not the other 50 million programming duties in their week. One on one, a good Foundry author could smoke the dev writers, because the devs are severely constrained for time.
Id rather the devs take as long as necessary to develop great missions that CAN stand up to the Trek fan critics, then feel pressured to release content and have all their JJ Abrams plot holes exposed before the Saturday is over. The dev team is driven by the same creative fire any foundry author would be driven by, and thats just to create for the simple pleasure of creating. So Im sure they are trying to hit it out of the park with every swing of the bat. They just dont get the time to practice as long during the week at JUST the writing, so they are writing missions with both hands tied behind their back. Even then, we see improvement with each new episode.
I remember on one of the TNG DVD eps or movies, someone says Gene would always ask the script writers, "but what is it about?" The Foundry authors can write great stuff too, and will get better in time as their Lego box increases. All thats REALLY required to make a Trek fan truly happy is the STORY. Not the bells and whistles. Thats why I love the Foundry concept. It gives us fans the ability to stand toe to toe with our missions vs the dev missions. All we have to do is out write them, and its much easier for us because we have more time to dream up all that good stuff.
I and obviously a few others have offered our services to just be writers on the Cryptic staff, whose only job would have been to just sit and write and be Trek enough. And I would have done it for much less than 80k a year, lol. So, since we cant get officially ON the payroll, we do have the ability to show how good we think we are. As someone said in this thread or another recently, "if you think you can do better, the Foundry awaits you". Well, since I got rejected, Ive got a big chip on my shoulder, and Im sure a few others do as well. But, the foundry gives us a chance to prove we ARE that good. STO fans WANT and NEED competition in the writing wars, because competition is good for the consumer. When Foundry authors start becoming more famous than the dev team, maybe thats when they DO get a call on the phone with a Cryptic job offer to buy off the competition, lol.
Dont knock the foundry, it IS the answer to the fears in this thread and the non stop unquenchable thirst for new Trek content. It doesnt look like Cryptic is going to get the amount of staff to produce some new story every other day any time soon. So until then, look to the foundry missions to satisfy your thirst. If you cant be happy with extremely well written Foundry missions that dont have all the dev bells and whistles, then I question whether you are a REAL Star Trek fan at all.
I agree that the Foundry is an amazing system and I cant wait for it to go live. However, because the Devs have stated that the Foundry is not a replacement for official content, then it cannot be used as an arguing point in discussions about official content. As I said previously, if they want to change their official stance and say that the Foundry is in fact a substitute for official content, then fine. But until they say that, then their previous comments stand and the Foundry has nothing to do with any discussions about official content.
You know, I never liked Ferengis, lol. No one is saying that the devs should shove ALL the new content on the shoulders of the fans who are doing it for free. By creating the foundry, the devs realised they cant possibly keep up with a STAR TREK fan's thirst for content. Of course they are going to TRY and produce missions themselves too. Who wants to be a mindless drafter, when the architects are having all the creative fun. They WANT to create good stuff too. When you look at it this way, they are being EXTREMELY unselfish by letting mere fans contribute to the content of THIER game. With the hope that many of us good and casual writers can fill those gaps (Sun - Fri)on an unofficial level, by giving you good Trek content, in the time its taking them to literally design and draw stuff from NOTHING. And I think they realise what I just wrote above, the fans literally COULD beat them in the writing competition, and yet they STILL give us the chance to prove it.
Stop trying to hold their heads down in the dunk tank with their words. They ARE "breaking" in a way, because they are asking the fans to come help them. They know their budget, they know their time constraints, and they know they serve the best sci fi fans in the business, so they let US help. Isnt that what Star Trek taught us? When a fellow man reaches out for help, you help him, regardless of his personal faults? Nagus, were you WATCHING the same show we were? Try to SEE the BIG picture here.
Wow, talk about going off on a tangent. If you want to discuss the meaning of Trek, I suggest creating a new thread in Ten Forward. This thread, however, is about the amount of time between FE series. And per the Devs own comments, the Foundry and UGC is not a replacement for official content. So until they change their stance on that, then the Foundry has nothing to do with discussions about official content.
This post has been edited to remove content which violates the [URL=" http://forums.startrekonline.com/announcement.php?f=70&a=2"]Cryptic Studios Forum Usage Guidelines[/URL] GMMeeko
Sounds to me like you have an awesome, but small team. :cool:
Hire more workers, work fewer hours.
How about a C-Store pledge drive? Question: at $25.00 a donation, how many donations would you need to hire a new programmer for 1 year? I'd be happy to shell out a one time booster donation of $25 bucks if it meant an extra set of hands creating content and programming new systems.
Please quote which specific statements I have made that you are referring to.
I stopped reading there. Any posts that starts of with nonsense like that isnt worth reading in the first place.
It's great to know that Statesman himself is still in the fight for justice!
There are a couple "Infrogames Acquires Cryptic Studios" memos out there which basically say Atari purchased your studio because you can leverage minimal resources using the proprietary Cryptic Game Engine and deliver high quality MMO's on-time and on-budget within 18-24 month cycles.
One of my biggest fears for STO was that Atari actually WANTS to keep your team small so they can continue to gain maximum revenues from minimal resources. That development model seems to have paid off. Hopefully Atari can see that it will pay off even more if your team grows.
Anyway, either I'm a Betazoid who sensed this going on in Jack's mind or I'm a just another speculator who could be totally off base.
Its called reading between YOUR lines. You keep demanding an answer to "WHY CANT YOU MAKE ME A NEW EPISODE FOR EVERY WEEK OF THE YEAR?". Dan is trying to answer you best he can by saying they ARE trying hard, and most reasonable fans would read his answers in this thread alone as basically being Sulu in that the USS Cryptic's crew is telling him "we're going to fly the ship apart sir" and Captain Stahl is yelling back "THEN FLY HER APART!!" As he says, what more can he say? A reasonable fan would see that the foundry IS contributing to new content, in an unofficial way. We wouldnt even HAVE the foundry if they hadnt put a bunch of work into that too, but you seem to refuse to give them credit for that. When Dan quips "unreasonable fanbase", he's talking about YOU Grand Nagus. Stop riding his jock so hard, that he wants to quit Cryptic and then we get some new director who DOESNT talk to us or listen to us.
So what your saying is, I havent actually said the things you are claiming I have, and you are just making things up to support your rant? Or maybe you are confusing my posts with others in this thread. I'm happy to discuss things I have actually said, if you want to quote a specific statement.
It's somewhat out of turn whenever I say this but, as an outside observer, I think that is exactly what Atari is doing until they get back in the black, which I expect they will be by this time next year, and then, if they're smart, they'll cautiously reinvest into expanding and pumping more life into their biggest money makers.
Theres your specific quote, where you refuse to acknowledge ANY role the Foundry could play in satisfying your content desires until Cyptic FLAT OUT says it. By CREATING the foundry, Cryptic IS saying that. But many here dont want to acknowledge Foundry content because it wasnt made by the hands of the devs themselves. Even though THEY designed it, thats not "official" enough. Dan isnt going to come out and flat out say that, because all you looking for blood wont LET him say that because you are already saying ANY story not written by a dev, could never be good enough for you. When Star Trek has always been more about the story, then what you see in set design and CGI. At least thats how they started. I and probably a few others see what Dan is implying in regards to the foundry and his team's ability to pump out "official" stuff. He HAS to walk that line carefully, because of fans like you who crucify him if he leans too far one way or the other.
That is incorrect. I have stated many times that the Foundry is going to change this game in a hugely positive way, and have done quite a bit of mission creation and testing myself. I cant wait for it to come out. However, this thread is regarding official content, specifically the FEs.
It was the Devs themselves who have repeatedly made the statement that the Foundry isnt a replacement for official content. They are the ones that drew the distinction between the two, not me. I'm simply going on their own statements until they change them.
Now, if you disagree with the distinction that they drew between the Foundry and official content, you'll have to take that up with them.
Once again, you are wrong. I have thoroughly enjoyed quite a few player created missions thus far, and look forward to enjoying even more when the Foundry is opened up to the entire playerbase on holodeck.
going bac a bit on this thread; i remember that too, that was a good day (this game has come a long way)