Even if not seen, lounge hAd windows. From curve of wall lounge can only be
In section right under bridge on either port or starboard side of ship,
Pics of enterprise exterior clearly show those section have windows. http://farm1.static.flickr.com/31/42598691_6032127b97_o.jpg
We'll do some more digging and deliberation on this next week to make sure we either have a clear reference for it having windows or we'll remove the windows and put in the flat panels with lighting.
Good to know you guys are trying to make it right! Though it didn't have windows in TOS and if you want it accurate to that then sure get rid of them. That being said it's easy enough to say it's another lounge or as suggested move the windows to the lower part of the wall and make the curved upper part the solid wall so that it would fit with the windows on the outer saucer.
Either way, looks very nice and looking forward to seeing it in game!
We'll do some more digging and deliberation on this next week to make sure we either have a clear reference for it having windows or we'll remove the windows and put in the flat panels with lighting.
You've literally given me a warm and fuzzy feeling by saying this. ^.^
1) Myself, I'd prefer a "pure classic" interior based as closely to TOS as possible and a "retrofit classic" interior which is based off of TOS but updated to take advantage of 25th century tech and asthetics.
and
2) I believe it's been said that the eventual plan is to have players be able to custom design their ship interiors using the Foundry some day. So if nothing else, we'll be able to get exactly what we want in time.
Now, when can I get my captain's shirt ripped in ground combat?
1) Myself, I'd prefer a "pure classic" interior based as closely to TOS as possible and a "retrofit classic" interior which is based off of TOS but updated to take advantage of 25th century tech and asthetics.
Speaking of that, I seem to remember the interiors from the motion picture being very cozy looking and quite nice.
Just saw the TOS Lounge and all I can say is, "By George, I think they got it!"
I doubt it would happen, but be great if these new interiors led to an architextually accurate Consitution. Maybe not 100%, but enough that you can say "this is a Consitution".
We'll do some more digging and deliberation on this next week to make sure we either have a clear reference for it having windows or we'll remove the windows and put in the flat panels with lighting.
Awww I like the windows!! Can't you make two versions? I am really digging the size of that lounge, but without windows it wouldn't look nearly as good..
Sorry, must have missed it. Going by the twitter pic it just fit better there. Are you talking that lone dot on the upper bridge dome? If so that's not actually a window its one of the blinking lights just while it was unlit.
No, I was talking about the area you have circled in yellow with the 4 rectangular windows. Looking around, I guess those windows were there, I just never noticed them.
Keep the windows-it adds a nice touch to the ships. Starfleet is asking people to go on long range, long term assignments encased in a metal hull, why not give them an opportunity to look out and see the area they're operating in.
We'll do some more digging and deliberation on this next week to make sure we either have a clear reference for it having windows or we'll remove the windows and put in the flat panels with lighting.
I hope you guys leave an option for the windows at least. It really looks good that way and the similarities to the Intrepid mess might just convince me to buy the pack to hold me off until the team makes an Intrepid interior pack (something I really hope the team does). Otherwise, I most likely won't be buying it since I have a very limited gaming budget.
I really do think the improvements the team has made to the Original look good. It looks like things should have looked on the show, but didn't due to a limited budget. That's what JJ should have done on his new movie, bring the TOS interiors up to TNG/VOY/DS9 level. Instead he did too much with them and made them look like pure cheese. Your team could have designed a far better updated Constitution look than his team did.
How about an 'either/or' option? Click the 'with windows' button for windows, or the 'original' for the actual look of the sets.
That way, you could always stick a few windows on the odd hallway as well as part of the 'with' option - the TOS sets didn't have them, but for those players who want a slightly less 'claustrophobic' feel, they have the option to have a bit more 'open-ness'.
It'd probably sell more that way, too - you'd not be alienating the purists by playing 'fast and loose' with the look of the classic sets, but you'd be adding practicality for those who are general gamers/Trek fans first and TOS fans second.
It's like everything else - give people a fixed option either way, and the other side will feel short-changed (it's the only constant in the galaxy... ...aside from the 'Bureaucratic Mentality', at least! ), but give them the choice of both, and everyone's happy and catered for. 'Having your cake AND eating it', so to speak.
It'd probably sell more that way, too - you'd not be alienating the purists by playing 'fast and loose' with the look of the classic sets, but you'd be adding practicality for those who are general gamers/Trek fans first and TOS fans second.
I imagine you'll always have the option of not getting the TOS interiors at all. If you're not a TOS fan you're probably not interested or moved much by the TOS aesthetic and are fine with the normal interiors anyway.
I imagine you'll always have the option of not getting the TOS interiors at all. If you're not a TOS fan you're probably not interested or moved much by the TOS aesthetic and are fine with the normal interiors anyway.
I disagree. I'm not satisfied with the current interiors in the game, but neither do I like the low budget sets of TOS. I like what the devs have done with the mess hall, and might buy the pack just for the mess hall, though I likely won't if they make the mess hall look too much like the cheesy and unrealistic sets of TOS. They need an option for this room, IMHO.
II really do think the improvements the team has made to the Original look good. It looks like things should have looked on the show, but didn't due to a limited budget. That's what JJ should have done on his new movie, bring the TOS interiors up to TNG/VOY/DS9 level. Instead he did too much with them and made them look like pure cheese. Your team could have designed a far better updated Constitution look than his team did.
Bear in mind that citing 'budget constraints' is a fallacy - TOS was a relatively big-budget TV show by the standards of the day, at least it's initial phases, hence why the sets were actually quite lavish and extravagant compared to other similar productions. Indeed, so much was spent on 'The Cage' alone because it was being considered to be released as a feature-length 'TV movie' at one point. Thus it's a bit fatuous to compare it to later TV shows, where CGI and improved production techniques mean that so much more can be done with the same money.
Also, consider that a completely different team worked on TOS than the largely-consistent production team on TNG/DS9/VOY/ENT, and thus the show had a very different style. Uniforms were simpler and more 'practical', as were the spartan sets - 'form follows function' was much more the case with TOS than the later Treks. The military overtones were also more marked, which added to the 'practicality' of the overall look - phasers looked like actual 'guns', communicators ran with the early concepts of things like 'walkie-talkies' rather than the more stylised combadges', and so on. As a result, it's often very hard to reconcile TOS with the other shows (indeed, one feels that the TNG-ENT production tended to ignore TOS because it didn't gel with the feel they were going for).
Primarily, it's important to note that while folks on TNG-ENT like Andrew Probert and John Eaves were graphic artists first and foremost, Matt Jeffries was an engineer and mechanical artist, with an extensive background in the military and aviation. His designs were (and still are) unique in their practicality (again with that word!), compared to some of the more 'fanciful' designs that regular artists come up with for film and TV - indeed, his design for the Constitution-class bridge was used by the US Navy as the basis for the communications center at NAS San Diego.
Here's part of an interview with him, on his thoughts about the style of TNG-onward:
Do you watch the new series? The Next Generation and Voyager and Deep Space Nine?
No. I went to the first movie. I was invited to the screening. I fell asleep. John Dwyer noticed it from across the screening room and said, "Matt, wake up." Fortunately nobody else in there knew me.
Gene asked me how I liked the show, and I said that he had taken the bridge of my ship and turned it into the lobby of the Hilton. And I have just never watched any of them since. Im lost.
Did you mind that your set had become more like a luxury liner?
Yeah, it bugged me a little bit because my logic was blown out of the box. But it was a different deal and a different time. They had requirements to meet and that was their answer to it. I am pleased that certain elements have dragged through and still show.
...in short, TOS was a very different animal to later Treks, and the approach to production/design was a clear reflection of that. IMO, I reckon it's a very bad idea to go down the line of trying to 'bring the TOS style up to date' to suit the changes of the later shows as if that was the original intention, when there's just so much evidence to the contrary. Basically, Trek changed radically with TMP - part of the appeal of TOS is that it's still so very unique. Start 'TNG-ing' it, and you lose that appeal.
Bear in mind that citing 'budget constraints' is a fallacy - TOS was a relatively big-budget TV show by the standards of the day, at least it's initial phases, hence why the sets were actually quite lavish and extravagant compared to other similar productions. Indeed, so much was spent on 'The Cage' alone because it was being considered to be released as a feature-length 'TV movie' at one point. Thus it's a bit fatuous to compare it to later TV shows, where CGI and improved production techniques mean that so much more can be done with the same money.
Also, consider that a completely different team worked on TOS than the largely-consistent production team on TNG/DS9/VOY/ENT, and thus the show had a very different style. Uniforms were simpler and more 'practical', as were the spartan sets - 'form follows function' was much more the case with TOS than the later Treks. The military overtones were also more marked, which added to the 'practicality' of the overall look - phasers looked like actual 'guns', communicators ran with the early concepts of things like 'walkie-talkies' rather than the more stylised combadges', and so on. As a result, it's often very hard to reconcile TOS with the other shows (indeed, one feels that the TNG-ENT production tended to ignore TOS because it didn't gel with the feel they were going for).
Primarily, it's important to note that while folks on TNG-ENT like Andrew Probert and John Eaves were graphic artists first and foremost, Matt Jeffries was an engineer and mechanical artist, with an extensive background in the military and aviation. His designs were (and still are) unique in their practicality (again with that word!), compared to some of the more 'fanciful' designs that regular artists come up with for film and TV - indeed, his design for the Constitution-class bridge was used by the US Navy as the basis for the communications center at NAS San Diego.
Here's part of an interview with him, on his thoughts about the style of TNG-onward:
...in short, TOS was a very different animal to later Treks, and the approach to production/design was a clear reflection of that. IMO, I reckon it's a very bad idea to go down the line of trying to 'bring the TOS style up to date' to suit the changes of the later shows as if that was the original intention, when there's just so much evidence to the contrary. Basically, Trek changed radically with TMP - part of the appeal of TOS is that it's still so very unique. Start 'TNG-ing' it, and you lose that appeal.
I'm just saying that a more TNG/DS9/VOY look would have have been far better than what JJ's team came up with. Especially the ridiculously bright bridge. I much prefer the Intrepid bridge to that thing, even though the budget for the set is a lot less.
I hope you guys leave an option for the windows at least. It really looks good that way and the similarities to the Intrepid mess might just convince me to buy the pack to hold me off until the team makes an Intrepid interior pack (something I really hope the team does). Otherwise, I most likely won't be buying it since I have a very limited gaming budget.
I really do think the improvements the team has made to the Original look good. It looks like things should have looked on the show, but didn't due to a limited budget. That's what JJ should have done on his new movie, bring the TOS interiors up to TNG/VOY/DS9 level. Instead he did too much with them and made them look like pure cheese. Your team could have designed a far better updated Constitution look than his team did.
I totally understand why you feel that way. I don't think anyone wants to rain on your parade. Just as you love the Voyager interiors for their designs, folks are going to love the TOS for what they are. The Connie really had the "feel" of a naval ship to it, and not a cruise liner. It was a service ship. I get that you think different of what it should be, but it is was it is. Though, if there's an option for windows, who can argue with that? Certainly not I.
I would also hope when the intrepid interiors comes out, they keep the feel of that ship too and not try to stretch it to appeal to fans of other ship interiors. Cause, that would do the intrepid no justice. It will come.:)
I'm just saying that a more TNG/DS9/VOY look would have have been far better than what JJ's team came up with. Especially the ridiculously bright bridge. I much prefer the Intrepid bridge to that thing, even though the budget for the set is a lot less.
Well, that's a separate issue - and I totally agree on that one. Doesn't help that the JJ bridge was done purely to look 'futuristic', without any of the ergonomic considerations that Jeffries and co. worked from. There's a reason all the shows used black panels - it's easier to sit and stare at them for hours on end, rather than things with illogical light sources spilling out all over the place. I'm surprised that the crew weren't suffering from seizures every half-hour... :rolleyes:
That, and the egregious use of <ahem!> ...useless cosmetic do-dads on consoles, like the needlessly convoluted system of having a big chrome handle to activate the warp engine. Surely a button would have done the job just as well - besides, what happens if someone doesn't move the handle all the way? Does the engine not activate? Total lack of logic, there, simply in the name of looking 'cool'. Similarly, there's something almost laughable about sticking a pair of barcode scanners on the conn and elsewhere, just to look like 'generic futuristic gadgets':
Can't believe that they had a budget of 150 MILLION DOLLARS, and that's the best the could come up with, compared to the stuff that, say, 'The Wrath of Khan' accomplished on a mere 11 million and a ton of re-used props, costumes and footage. Maybe it got blown on the electrical bill, to cover the cost of all the random lens flares...
Judging by the look of the NuEnterprise from the outside, it's clear that the design team was working mainly from the TMP Enterprise anyway, so it's even more baffling that they went for such a daft interior style - they could have easily cribbed from the really classy-looking bridge from 'The Undiscovered Country', which in many ways is the fusion of TMP-TNG and TOS that's been mentioned in this thread.
I totally understand why you feel that way. I don't think anyone wants to rain on your parade. Just as you love the Voyager interiors for their designs, folks are going to love the TOS for what they are. The Connie really had the "feel" of a naval ship to it, and not a cruise liner. It was a service ship. I get that you think different of what it should be, but it is was it is. Though, if there's an option for windows, who can argue with that? Certainly not I.
I would also hope when the intrepid interiors comes out, they keep the feel of that ship too and not try to stretch it to appeal to fans of other ship interiors. Cause, that would do the intrepid no justice. It will come.:)
Agreed. Again, the reason for having replica canon interiors is for fans of the shows, who want those looks to play with in-game. Therefore, it makes sense to have them as accurate as possible in scale and details - if they're just going to be approximations, then what's the point? We've already got 'similar but not exact' interiors already - why pay extra money for more of the same?
Don't get me wrong - I'd probably enjoy a 'TOS-inspired' pack to play around with too. But this pack isn't that -it's supposed to be the real McCoy, so I reckon accuracy has to take priority to justify that.
We'll do some more digging and deliberation on this next week to make sure we either have a clear reference for it having windows or we'll remove the windows and put in the flat panels with lighting.
FYI - The type of windows the original 1701 had can be seen in the TOS episode Conscience of the King. There's a scene between Captain Kirk and
We'll do some more digging and deliberation on this next week to make sure we either have a clear reference for it having windows or we'll remove the windows and put in the flat panels with lighting.
My main thing is that when I looked at that Screenshot I would not have known it was supposed to be a TOS screenshot if I hadn't been told that was what it was. At first glance I thought someone posted up a pic of a new lounge shot for Voyager or something. IT wasn't bad but it also didn't look like it was from TOS era or show to me.
I also offer the caveat that sometimes screenshots don't translate well. You may be looking at it actually in the game engine and are able to turn about and look at things. Sometimes things look and feel different when you put it in that perspective. So while I personally think the windows should go bear in mind I'm only seeing one angle.
Part of what puts this off is the curved side of the wall with the windows. Which is not a TOS style, TOS was more boxy. This reminds me more of Voyager or something TNG related.
Comments
In section right under bridge on either port or starboard side of ship,
Pics of enterprise exterior clearly show those section have windows.
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/31/42598691_6032127b97_o.jpg
Either way, looks very nice and looking forward to seeing it in game!
You've literally given me a warm and fuzzy feeling by saying this. ^.^
Just a couple of quick points:
1) Myself, I'd prefer a "pure classic" interior based as closely to TOS as possible and a "retrofit classic" interior which is based off of TOS but updated to take advantage of 25th century tech and asthetics.
and
2) I believe it's been said that the eventual plan is to have players be able to custom design their ship interiors using the Foundry some day. So if nothing else, we'll be able to get exactly what we want in time.
Now, when can I get my captain's shirt ripped in ground combat?
What a fantastic idea!
Speaking of that, I seem to remember the interiors from the motion picture being very cozy looking and quite nice.
I doubt it would happen, but be great if these new interiors led to an architextually accurate Consitution. Maybe not 100%, but enough that you can say "this is a Consitution".
Awww I like the windows!! Can't you make two versions? I am really digging the size of that lounge, but without windows it wouldn't look nearly as good..
Even though its not canon!
You know why TOS didnt have windows? Because it was expensive to build a starfield behind the windows! So they got left out probably!
I wouldnt want to live in a box, and it was clearly visible from the Outside that the Enterprise had windows!
I would hope one day we can have a gorgeous Galaxy class interior not too far from the image below!
http://archive.perfectduluthday.com/obslounge.jpg
M.
No, I was talking about the area you have circled in yellow with the 4 rectangular windows. Looking around, I guess those windows were there, I just never noticed them.
I hope you guys leave an option for the windows at least. It really looks good that way and the similarities to the Intrepid mess might just convince me to buy the pack to hold me off until the team makes an Intrepid interior pack (something I really hope the team does). Otherwise, I most likely won't be buying it since I have a very limited gaming budget.
I really do think the improvements the team has made to the Original look good. It looks like things should have looked on the show, but didn't due to a limited budget. That's what JJ should have done on his new movie, bring the TOS interiors up to TNG/VOY/DS9 level. Instead he did too much with them and made them look like pure cheese. Your team could have designed a far better updated Constitution look than his team did.
That way, you could always stick a few windows on the odd hallway as well as part of the 'with' option - the TOS sets didn't have them, but for those players who want a slightly less 'claustrophobic' feel, they have the option to have a bit more 'open-ness'.
It'd probably sell more that way, too - you'd not be alienating the purists by playing 'fast and loose' with the look of the classic sets, but you'd be adding practicality for those who are general gamers/Trek fans first and TOS fans second.
It's like everything else - give people a fixed option either way, and the other side will feel short-changed (it's the only constant in the galaxy... ...aside from the 'Bureaucratic Mentality', at least!
I imagine you'll always have the option of not getting the TOS interiors at all. If you're not a TOS fan you're probably not interested or moved much by the TOS aesthetic and are fine with the normal interiors anyway.
I disagree. I'm not satisfied with the current interiors in the game, but neither do I like the low budget sets of TOS. I like what the devs have done with the mess hall, and might buy the pack just for the mess hall, though I likely won't if they make the mess hall look too much like the cheesy and unrealistic sets of TOS. They need an option for this room, IMHO.
Bear in mind that citing 'budget constraints' is a fallacy - TOS was a relatively big-budget TV show by the standards of the day, at least it's initial phases, hence why the sets were actually quite lavish and extravagant compared to other similar productions. Indeed, so much was spent on 'The Cage' alone because it was being considered to be released as a feature-length 'TV movie' at one point. Thus it's a bit fatuous to compare it to later TV shows, where CGI and improved production techniques mean that so much more can be done with the same money.
Also, consider that a completely different team worked on TOS than the largely-consistent production team on TNG/DS9/VOY/ENT, and thus the show had a very different style. Uniforms were simpler and more 'practical', as were the spartan sets - 'form follows function' was much more the case with TOS than the later Treks. The military overtones were also more marked, which added to the 'practicality' of the overall look - phasers looked like actual 'guns', communicators ran with the early concepts of things like 'walkie-talkies' rather than the more stylised combadges', and so on. As a result, it's often very hard to reconcile TOS with the other shows (indeed, one feels that the TNG-ENT production tended to ignore TOS because it didn't gel with the feel they were going for).
Primarily, it's important to note that while folks on TNG-ENT like Andrew Probert and John Eaves were graphic artists first and foremost, Matt Jeffries was an engineer and mechanical artist, with an extensive background in the military and aviation. His designs were (and still are) unique in their practicality (again with that word!), compared to some of the more 'fanciful' designs that regular artists come up with for film and TV - indeed, his design for the Constitution-class bridge was used by the US Navy as the basis for the communications center at NAS San Diego.
Here's part of an interview with him, on his thoughts about the style of TNG-onward:
...in short, TOS was a very different animal to later Treks, and the approach to production/design was a clear reflection of that. IMO, I reckon it's a very bad idea to go down the line of trying to 'bring the TOS style up to date' to suit the changes of the later shows as if that was the original intention, when there's just so much evidence to the contrary. Basically, Trek changed radically with TMP - part of the appeal of TOS is that it's still so very unique. Start 'TNG-ing' it, and you lose that appeal.
I'm just saying that a more TNG/DS9/VOY look would have have been far better than what JJ's team came up with. Especially the ridiculously bright bridge. I much prefer the Intrepid bridge to that thing, even though the budget for the set is a lot less.
I totally understand why you feel that way. I don't think anyone wants to rain on your parade. Just as you love the Voyager interiors for their designs, folks are going to love the TOS for what they are. The Connie really had the "feel" of a naval ship to it, and not a cruise liner. It was a service ship. I get that you think different of what it should be, but it is was it is. Though, if there's an option for windows, who can argue with that? Certainly not I.
I would also hope when the intrepid interiors comes out, they keep the feel of that ship too and not try to stretch it to appeal to fans of other ship interiors. Cause, that would do the intrepid no justice. It will come.:)
Well, that's a separate issue - and I totally agree on that one. Doesn't help that the JJ bridge was done purely to look 'futuristic', without any of the ergonomic considerations that Jeffries and co. worked from. There's a reason all the shows used black panels - it's easier to sit and stare at them for hours on end, rather than things with illogical light sources spilling out all over the place. I'm surprised that the crew weren't suffering from seizures every half-hour... :rolleyes:
That, and the egregious use of <ahem!> ...useless cosmetic do-dads on consoles, like the needlessly convoluted system of having a big chrome handle to activate the warp engine. Surely a button would have done the job just as well - besides, what happens if someone doesn't move the handle all the way? Does the engine not activate? Total lack of logic, there, simply in the name of looking 'cool'. Similarly, there's something almost laughable about sticking a pair of barcode scanners on the conn and elsewhere, just to look like 'generic futuristic gadgets':
Seriously - wow.
Can't believe that they had a budget of 150 MILLION DOLLARS, and that's the best the could come up with, compared to the stuff that, say, 'The Wrath of Khan' accomplished on a mere 11 million and a ton of re-used props, costumes and footage. Maybe it got blown on the electrical bill, to cover the cost of all the random lens flares...
Judging by the look of the NuEnterprise from the outside, it's clear that the design team was working mainly from the TMP Enterprise anyway, so it's even more baffling that they went for such a daft interior style - they could have easily cribbed from the really classy-looking bridge from 'The Undiscovered Country', which in many ways is the fusion of TMP-TNG and TOS that's been mentioned in this thread.
Agreed. Again, the reason for having replica canon interiors is for fans of the shows, who want those looks to play with in-game. Therefore, it makes sense to have them as accurate as possible in scale and details - if they're just going to be approximations, then what's the point? We've already got 'similar but not exact' interiors already - why pay extra money for more of the same?
Don't get me wrong - I'd probably enjoy a 'TOS-inspired' pack to play around with too. But this pack isn't that -it's supposed to be the real McCoy, so I reckon accuracy has to take priority to justify that.
FYI - The type of windows the original 1701 had can be seen in the TOS episode Conscience of the King. There's a scene between Captain Kirk and
Here's the scene (for some reference) where TOS Constitution windows can be seen (link)
And a shot from later in the scene where they're in front of a window (link)
Yeah, but that's some kind of observation deck - not the recreation room.
On that note, can we have that room included as well, please - it looks cool!
My main thing is that when I looked at that Screenshot I would not have known it was supposed to be a TOS screenshot if I hadn't been told that was what it was. At first glance I thought someone posted up a pic of a new lounge shot for Voyager or something. IT wasn't bad but it also didn't look like it was from TOS era or show to me.
I also offer the caveat that sometimes screenshots don't translate well. You may be looking at it actually in the game engine and are able to turn about and look at things. Sometimes things look and feel different when you put it in that perspective. So while I personally think the windows should go bear in mind I'm only seeing one angle.
Part of what puts this off is the curved side of the wall with the windows. Which is not a TOS style, TOS was more boxy. This reminds me more of Voyager or something TNG related.
Then re-texture the set a second time, and include windows in that alternate set.