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Bring Back V'ger

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  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    dstahl wrote: »
    This is currently my favorite thread for obvious reasons :):):)

    I APPROVE!!

    BRING BACK V'GER!!!

    THE VAULT WAS JUST THE BEGINNING!!!!

    The Vault was just the beginning? oohh.... subtle hints to drive us crazy!

    Just in case some of you guys forgot, there are TWO Voyager spacecraft currently in space at the moment. Who's to say that whatever happened to the first one didn't happen to the second? Perhaps something different all together will bring Voyager 2 back to Earth.... :)

    The possibilities are endless!
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    V'Ger the ship was destroyed when that happened wasn't it. Who knows, there may be a bigger version out there somewhere.

    We don't know what happened. It didn't explode; it transported itself to a new domesion (IMO); and hey, it not like we've NEVER seen something like that in 40 years of Star Trek before. ;)

    New TF - V'Ger VS The Crystiline Entity (God knows the CE TF could use a MAJOR re-work ;).)
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    Roddenberry's words are not canon; Only what we see on the TV and movie screen that is Star Trek is canon, so please stop spreading falsehoods and misinformation.




    My point is if Cryptic wants to bring Vger back, they can decide how to do it. If they want to recreate the Vger ship, they can come up with a good explanation as to why it's still a ship and not something else and that should be fine for everyone.

    Rather than dismissing it outright...

    Wouldn't it be better to classify it as Soft Cannon... (he was the acknowledged creator of the show, after all)

    It has been confirmed from several sources that he DID actually say this. :)
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    Armsman wrote: »
    We don't know what happened. It didn't explode; it transported itself to a new domesion (IMO); and hey, it not like we've NEVER seen something like that in 40 years of Star Trek before. ;)

    New TF - V'Ger VS The Crystiline Entity (God knows the CE TF could use a MAJOR re-work ;).)

    Nah. Just send V'Ger into Ker'rat and have the borg ships stand behind a beam of light and be invincible while still being able to dps. That'll show V'Ger.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    jkirk131 wrote: »
    Fine, we will go in first and show you how it's done. :D

    pretty sure the reason that kirk succeeded was because he saw the klingons fail on brute force.
    If v'ger didn't go through klingon space to get to earth and kirk had nothing to go on, he would be the charcoal briquette on the ground and not the other way around.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    Roddenberry's words are not canon; Only what we see on the TV and movie screen that is Star Trek is canon, so please stop spreading falsehoods and misinformation.

    rodenbury's words where canon if he said that klingons are sniviling babys then they are sniviling babys, rodenbury created startrek what he said was law, not what you say.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    Staran wrote: »
    pretty sure the reason that kirk succeeded was because he saw the klingons fail on brute force.
    If v'ger didn't go through klingon space to get to earth and kirk had nothing to go on, he would be the charcoal briquette on the ground and not the other way around.

    Actually... the Klingon Ships became Memory Data... not briquettes... ;)
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    The Borg are all V'ger's fault. It's true.
    First thing it did after transcending was hop back to the Machine Planet and tell them, "Guys, guys, I assimilated a carbon unit and it was awesome. You should totally try it."
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    You know, some people theorize that the V'GER/Decker/Ilia integration may have been the birth of the Borg.

    Could this be fodder for a Foundry mission? Possibly.


    :cool:
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    Blackavaar wrote: »
    You know, some people theorize that the V'GER/Decker/Ilia integration may have been the birth of the Borg.

    Could this be fodder for a Foundry mission? Possibly.


    :cool:

    Possibly, although the Vaadwaar (on Voyager) mentioned the Borg existed 400 years ago, long before the V'Ger incident.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    At the risk of going down in flames:

    I've always had a bit of a problem with V-ger as the Mother of All Borg.

    1. Was it ever clarified where the borg were that were being contacted in the 22nd century? I always figured it was the same old borg, just a few centuries younger. Like they were being contacted to say 'Hey you need to come to the alpha quadrant... good hunting here.'

    2. V-ger didn't use plasma, didn't use shield inhibitors, it digitized ships and starbases (?), one shot... poof you're gone. If V-ger is the MoAB where did this tech go?

    3. Didn't V-ger absorb Decker and Ilia to better understand humanoid life? And having done this and deciding that we're inferior and need to be destroyed (assimilated) it flies off the the other end of the galaxy to begin it's plan rather than starting with Earth... which is right there?
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    Cyllus wrote: »
    At the risk of going down in flames:

    I've always had a bit of a problem with V-ger as the Mother of All Borg.

    1. Was it ever clarified where the borg were that were being contacted in the 22nd century? I always figured it was the same old borg, just a few centuries younger. Like they were being contacted to say 'Hey you need to come to the alpha quadrant... good hunting here.'

    2. V-ger didn't use plasma, didn't use shield inhibitors, it digitized ships and starbases (?), one shot... poof you're gone. If V-ger is the MoAB where did this tech go?

    3. Didn't V-ger absorb Decker and Ilia to better understand humanoid life? And having done this and deciding that we're inferior and need to be destroyed (assimilated) it flies off the the other end of the galaxy to begin it's plan rather than starting with Earth... which is right there?

    Yeah, i am resisting ripping you a new one right about now. :p
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    Possibly, although the Vaadwaar (on Voyager) mentioned the Borg existed 400 years ago, long before the V'Ger incident.

    The Borg are very adept at Time Travel. They existed 400 years ago for the Federation as well.

    :cool:
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    Blackavaar wrote: »
    The Borg are very adept at Time Travel. They existed 400 years ago for the Federation as well.

    :cool:

    I'm a fan of the Star Trek Destiny origin story, but I also rely on the canon speech of the Vaadwaar. Also, I'd rather not have them use time travel right as they formed, it produces odd predestination paradoxes that the Borg would probably see as pointlessly chaotic since "Resistance is Futile" and all that.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    Its probably safe to say the Borg existed before V'Ger and that it just came across them. They saw it assimilated it, found its directive of learn everything and built it bigger and badder and sent it on its way. V'Ger probably got the zap and insta-poof weapon and the other advanced un-borg tech from its travels before returning to Earth with its indentiy crisis issues.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    Pasquatic wrote:
    The V'Ger/Decker/(Ilia) being transcended this universe and moved on to another dimension. Sorry, one way ticket with no return trip available. Perhaps it is possible to follow. Try merging with your vacuum cleaner, or perhaps a toaster oven.

    I tried merging with my vacuum cleaner, but only got as far as the hospital with a lot of explaining to do.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    I'm a fan of the Star Trek Destiny origin story, but I also rely on the canon speech of the Vaadwaar. Also, I'd rather not have them use time travel right as they formed, it produces odd predestination paradoxes that the Borg would probably see as pointlessly chaotic since "Resistance is Futile" and all that.

    Who says they used it right as they formed? They could have use it thousands of years from now.

    And the quest for perfection supersedes all other concerns as far as the Borg Queen is concerned.

    Do you think that the Borg can't adapt and realize that in some cases resistance is not futile? Do you think that they can't find other ways to get what they want besides violence? They can and they will. It's just a matter of time.


    :cool:
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    Personally I don't see how V'Ger created the Borg when they were clearly around before first contact between the Vulcans and Humanity, quite awhile before TMP happened.

    And don't say time-travel. If V'Ger created the Borg why would s/he/it go back in time to do so? For the lols?

    Having V'Ger in an episode series = good
    Having it involve the Borg in some way even = possibly good
    Having it be the progenitor of the Borg = bad
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    Possibly, although the Vaadwaar (on Voyager) mentioned the Borg existed 400 years ago, long before the V'Ger incident.

    "Q, Who?".... Guinan tells Picard how the Borg have been "developing for thousands of centuries".
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    I agree. I think the borg developed on their own. Besides it takes only 70 years to get from the Delta Quadrant to Sol, but took V'ger 300?
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    jkirk131 wrote: »
    I agree. I think the borg developed on their own. Besides it takes only 70 years to get from the Delta Quadrant to Sol, but took V'ger 300?

    V'ger was designed to explore and document. It probably had to stop and smell the space roses along the way. :)
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    HF_Mudd wrote:
    The Borg are all V'ger's fault. It's true.
    First thing it did after transcending was hop back to the Machine Planet and tell them, "Guys, guys, I assimilated a carbon unit and it was awesome. You should totally try it."
    ^^^^^^

    Lol! Works for me. ;)
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    True, but Spock did say that whole galaxies were stored there.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    The Star Trek Destiny series of books go into the origins of the Borg, and V'ger was never mentioned. Soft canon or not, it's probably best not to create contradictions unnecessarily.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    I'm reeeeeeealy glad that no onE started to spout off novelizations or non-canon fanfic about how V'Ger met with the Borg or is related to NOMAD, etc.

    actually... William Shatner did some Books and those included exactly that plot.... after Kirk was resurected by Borg... which had Borg Dogs...



    and Star Trek Legacy.... had something... wait maybe i can find that on youtube... yeah there it is:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aaKI9hm3jVA




    ....i just remembering something else.
    I did read a book once, i believe the title was "Vendetta" where it was said that the Doomsday Machine was a weapon build to destroy the Borg.


    It was never explained in Canon WHAT the Doomsday Machine actually was, where it came from or what it's purpose was.

    We have destroyed another Doomsday Machine in STO... yet, no explenation of those points either.


    I say once the Iconians are done this could be the next big thing for STO.

    And what if we actually except all that soft-canon stuff about V'Ger beeing the source of the Borg?
    V'Ger is gone, the Borg don't follow him anymore and have made up their own little directives, what if V'Ger comes back to clean up his mess after he realizes what he has unleashed into our Universe
    V'Ger might even be the source of the Doomsday machines to counter the Borg....

    uuuuh now all kinds of crazyness is going on in my head...
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    Wiki Article on V'Ger

    I think this article is very well detailed as to the purpose and background of the V'Ger craft. If an episode were to come to light, it should follow this history. Much is unknown about what happened to V'Ger after it moved into whatever existence it is in, so it leaves a lot of room to elaborate on the story that was set in The Motion Picture.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    Instead of V'ger, why not P'eer Io? :)



    Sorry, too geeky?
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    dstahl wrote: »
    This is currently my favorite thread for obvious reasons :):):)

    I APPROVE!!

    BRING BACK V'GER!!!

    THE VAULT WAS JUST THE BEGINNING!!!!

    So should we start calling you 'DSTAHL UNIT?' =)
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    castmodean wrote: »
    I am completely shocked that Dan responded to a V'ger thread. I would very much like to see a follow on episode to what happened at the end TMP. With that said does that mean we can ignore the idea of V'ger=progenitor of the Borg(which I would say is canon since First Contact had the Borg trying to contact the 22nd century Borg) What would happen if V'ger encounter the Borg or the Undine, or even Klingons who probably still consider it an enemy for the destruction of a Klingon battle group?

    I really don't see V'ger having a direct relationship to the Borg. Bunches and bunches of reasons why that doesn't make sense in canon.
    1. Even early Borg would not have mistaken the Voyager probe as a sentient being. It would have been a thing to be taken apart and assimilated.
    2. Borg would not have rebuilt V'ger as an independent entity. It would have been assimilated into the Collective. It had to be some other mechanical civilization that rebuilt V'ger.
    3. V'ger did not have a Borg-like appearance and did not appear to use Borg-like technology. I would say that in many ways the technology was superior to the Borg. V'ger would have pwned the Narada or any single Borg Cube.
    4. V'ger's imperative, the reason why it was headed back to Earth, was to report by 'merging with its' Creator'. If V'ger were related to the Borg, its' imperative would have been assimilation.
    5. V'ger merged with a human (and a Deltan, lest we forget that minor detail). Taking everything we know about V'ger and the Borg into account, it does not make sense that V'ger would have given rise to a cybernetic collective organized around a Borg Queen. Nor does it entirely make sense that the being created by that merger would have been unsympathetic to humanity.

    Now, having said all that, nothing says that V'ger did not have a subsequent encounter with the Borg. The Borg would surely attempt to assimilate it if it still existed in a form which could be assimilated.

    Also, nothing says that the machine intelligences that rebuilt V'ger did not also have something to do with the Borg.

    Q would certainly be aware of V'ger. In fact, I would think that Q would be very interested in V'ger, because of its' nature (the merged human intellect). There's a lot of room for a good story there, too.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    Curii wrote:
    Instead of V'ger, why not P'eer Io? :)



    Sorry, too geeky?

    Maybe Zardoz too.
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