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Anyone with a GTX card found a shadow fix?

SystemSystem Member, NoReporting Posts: 178,019 Arc User
edited September 2011 in Graphical and Sound Issues
This should be in the tech support section but it's very likely that those who've found a fix for this no longer visit that particular forum. And it is VERY dead over there. Posts I made days ago are still at the top.

On to my question... there's a problem with shadows on medium/high stuttering while loading up on GTX series cards. NVIDIA has allegedly acknowledged this and as such I've just been shutting shadows off even on my GTX 570. Such a shame.

Has anyone found a fix for that issue? A workaround? I'd really like to see those shadows but I don't want to have to deal with the stutter.
Post edited by Unknown User on
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Comments

  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    nope

    nvidia releasenotes still have the bug listed under known issues.

    there is not one driver in existance for my GTX460 that does not have this problem.

    PS: i bumped this question into the Ask Cryptic, this is bugging me like hell.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    Go with ATI instead :cool:
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    WHAT! Well TRIBBLE, that was close. I kid you not, I was just about to order a GTX 560 TI tonight or tomorrow. This was from a recommendation towards NVIDIA cards from a DEV in the STOked chat box after the show. I think it was a dev anyways. Im eagerly wanting to max my settings for this game, but the series I was about to buy is glitchy too?

    So, what card do I buy now? Hurry, someone respond
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    My GTX 470 is working just fine. :p
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    Alexraptor wrote: »
    My GTX 470 is working just fine. :p

    Really?! Now Im just all confused....
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    I have a GFX 460 and have no problem at all.. Everything at max and everything is running fine :)
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    GTX285 here, no issues either. Smooth as butter.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    GTX285 here, no issues either. Smooth as butter.

    Ok, I guess I need to listen as the votes come in, and Ill pick the highest NVidia card NOT having problems.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    ThetaNine wrote:
    Go with ATI instead :cool:

    ATI has their own dynamic lighting issue on most of their DX11 cards
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    Must be something with the 400 series and 500 series NVidia driver interaction with the newer cards as my GTX260 does fine with shadows on High. Hope they get it fixed though as I mplan to upgrade my desktop soo, and want to go with the latest NVidia at that time.

    As for ATI - didn't care for them in the days you were LUCKY to see ONE updated driver release for your card before the next series came out. They are a biit better at releasing driver updates, but overall, I see more compatability issues across a spectrum of games with ATI then I do with NVidia. YMMV.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    Armsman wrote: »
    Must be something with the 400 series and 500 series NVidia driver interaction with the newer cards as my GTX260 does fine with shadows on High. Hope they get it fixed though as I mplan to upgrade my desktop soo, and want to go with the latest NVidia at that time.

    As for ATI - didn't care for them in the days you were LUCKY to see ONE updated driver release for your card before the next series came out. They are a biit better at releasing driver updates, but overall, I see more compatability issues across a spectrum of games with ATI then I do with NVidia. YMMV.

    This. The GTX 285 on my main system does fine. I've been thinking about updating my video card also, but I've been holding off on it.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    Keep your cards coming guys, you are influencing me with every post I read.

    Im also wanting to play Civilization 5 too. Dont own it yet.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    Also no problems with my GTX 285.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    AGNT009 wrote: »
    Keep your cards coming guys, you are influencing me with every post I read.

    Im also wanting to play Civilization 5 too. Dont own it yet.

    Okay I've had a GTX 260 and now a GTX 570. BOTH have stuttering issues (but extremely high framerate) with shadows turned on in STO. I think the people with 260's saying it's "smooth as butter" simply haven't experienced "smooth as butter" to know what it looks like LOL.

    As far as Civilization V goes... it runs like a DREAM on this 570... I'm actually in the middle of a game now.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    Okay I've had a GTX 260 and now a GTX 570. BOTH have stuttering issues (but extremely high framerate) with shadows turned on in STO. I think the people with 260's saying it's "smooth as butter" simply haven't experienced "smooth as butter" to know what it looks like LOL.

    As far as Civilization V goes... it runs like a DREAM on this 570... I'm actually in the middle of a game now.
    I have. I can spot the difference between 20 fps and 60 fps. The performance drop on my Geforce 460 GTX is terrible. It dips to 10 FPS, despite having 45+ at other times.
    • My 260 GTX 1.8 GB card w/ overclocking was fine with shadows on high. 45-55 fps.
    • My 460 GTX 1.0 GB card has to have shadows turned to "low" to be playable. Without reducing it to "low", I get drops in frame-rate down to 10-12 fps. That's borderline unplayable.
    I don't know if it's a driver maturity issue (both ATI and Nvidia tend to implement DX11 in different, non-standard ways) or if it's an issue with STO itself.

    I do know, however, that I get amazing FPS performance in DX11 titles like Metro 2033, which are far, far more intensive than STO, in terms of lighting model.

    My Workaround:
    Turn shadows to "low" and you can max every other setting on 1.0 GB 460 GTX.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    I have.

    My 260 GTX 1.8 GB card w/ overclocking was fine with shadows on high. 45-55 fps.

    Okay my old 260 and my new 570 would NOT do that no matter what I tried... what driver set? What's the difference here? I'm running an AMD Phenom II X6 1055 with 4GB RAM so the rest of my system isn't the issue.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    Okay my old 260 and my new 570 would NOT do that no matter what I tried... what driver set? What's the difference here? I'm running an AMD Phenom II X6 1055 with 4GB RAM so the rest of my system isn't the issue.

    My Geforce 260 was something I've used since July till just two weeks ago. I updated my drivers to the latest Geforce Drivers as soon as news came out of a new one during the time I used my Geforce Card (even using various beta drivers at points).

    Most recently, using Driver Version 266.58:
    • 260 = Great w/ shadows on High (45-55 fps)
    • 460 = TRIBBLE w/ shadows on High (45 fps w/ stuttering drops down to a mere 10 FPS)

    My 460 shouldn't be having as large a performance hit. Despite having less RAM than my 260, it had faster graphics, memory, and processor settings while on stock. It also has greater bandwidth than my 260 GTX. It shouldn't matter, yet STO prefers my 260 card only when shadows are turned to high.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    Okay I've had a GTX 260 and now a GTX 570. BOTH have stuttering issues (but extremely high framerate) with shadows turned on in STO. I think the people with 260's saying it's "smooth as butter" simply haven't experienced "smooth as butter" to know what it looks like LOL.

    As far as Civilization V goes... it runs like a DREAM on this 570... I'm actually in the middle of a game now.

    Ugh. That helped, but then it didnt. Im buying a new card NOW, because I want full power graphics for STO NOW. But if I lowball it, and get a 200 series, Im sacrificing games like Civ 5 on my todo list.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    My Workaround:
    Turn shadows to "low" and you can max every other setting on 1.0 GB 460 GTX.

    That's what I'm doing but I REALLY want to get my shadows working right. The solution IS out there if OLDER cards handle it fine.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    That's what I'm doing but I REALLY want to get my shadows working right. The solution IS out there if OLDER cards handle it fine.
    There is no fix.

    It's either an issue with standards non-compliant drivers (nvidia and ATI do this, ATI does it more regularly) or STO having a poorly optimized lighting model (which is very possible).
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    AGNT009 wrote: »
    Ugh. That helped, but then it didnt. Im buying a new card NOW, because I want full power graphics for STO NOW. But if I lowball it, and get a 200 series, Im sacrificing games like Civ 5 on my todo list.

    You can't go wrong with anything from the 500 series. Even the 560 is great bang for the buck. And STO's framerate is maxed at my refresh rate with VSYNC on, all settings on high, shadows off at 1080p on a 37" HDTV.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    You can't go wrong with anything from the 500 series. Even the 560 is great bang for the buck. And STO's framerate is maxed at my refresh rate with VSYNC on, all settings on high, shadows off at 1080p on a 37" HDTV.

    That's teh issue: we want shadows on (and on "high").

    It plays like a dream for me on a 460 w/ shadows on "low."
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    Yeah, this is starting to smell like STO's fault. I guess I should just get my 560 TI as planned, use the low shadow workaround, and wait for STO to get caught up on their code with new cards. They are coming up with new gorn to take advantage of higher end cards, hopefully they address driver issues too. Then again, when it comes to STO, I wont hold my breath.

    So, my decision is made. If I CAN afford a good card now, get it, and though STO is all Im playing right now, Im not going to sell myself short to max STO properly, when there are other games out there that will play nice with a GTX 560 TI.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    There is no fix.

    This is going to sound extremely arrogant... but I will fix it. We need to start gathering information from users with and without the problem. Let's use the GTX260 as our control.

    1) Everyone with a GTX260 needs to post their system specs, operating system, driver version and driver settings. Other GTX card results will be extremely helpful as well since I'm still experiencing it on a 570.

    2) The test will be conducted with no custom STO settings. Set the STO quality slider to one from the far right side. Resolution, VSYNC and AA can be used at your discretion but please post your settings.

    3) Test shadow stutter performance at the Ship Requisitions area of ESD. You're looking for pauses or drops in framerate as the shadows load up then eventually smoothing out.

    4) Post all of your results: Stutter, slight stutter, temporary stutter, constant stutter, no stutter.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    AGNT009 wrote: »
    Yeah, this is starting to smell like STO's fault. I guess I should just get my 560 TI as planned, use the low shadow workaround, and wait for STO to get caught up on their code with new cards. They are coming up with new gorn to take advantage of higher end cards, hopefully they address driver issues too. Then again, when it comes to STO, I wont hold my breath.

    So, my decision is made. If I CAN afford a good card now, get it, and though STO is all Im playing right now, Im not going to sell myself short to max STO properly, when there are other games out there that will play nice with a GTX 560 TI.
    I wouldn't blame STO entirely just yet (even though it's the only title seemingly affected that I own). Evidence points to STO being suspect in the lighting model but:

    It could very well be that nvidia drivers are not standards compliant for DX9-11. Both major graphics card developers (AMD/ATI and Nvidia) frequently tweak their implementation to get performance improvements in the latest titles.
    This is going to sound extremely arrogant... but I will fix it. We need to start gathering information from users with and without the problem. Let's use the GTX260 as our control.

    1) Everyone with a GTX260 needs to post their system specs, operating system, driver version and driver settings.

    2) The test will be conducted with no custom STO settings. Set the STO quality slider to one from the far right side. Resolution, VSYNC and AA can be used at your discretion but please post your settings.

    3) Test shadow stutter performance at the Ship Requisitions area of ESD. You're looking for pauses or drops in framerate as the shadows load up then eventually smoothing out.

    4) Post all of your results: Stutter, slight stutter, temporary stutter, constant stutter, no stutter.

    I've already done this in the PC & Technical Issue forum.

    Turning Shadows to "low" is the setting with the greatest impact (by a wide margin). Stuttering goes away when I toggle.

    Noe of these settings impacted my performance as significantly as high > low:
    • number of shadow (dynamic) lights,
    • turning dynamic lights off,
    • number of lights,
    • screen space ambient occlusion

    None of these settings being fiddled with removed the stuttering. It all has to do with the lighting being set to "high".
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    From my thread in the PC issues forum:
    I have everything set at their defaults from the Nvidia Control Panel
    I am running nVidia Driver version 266.58

    Some Specs:
    • Intel Core i7 CPU 920 with each core @ 2.67 Ghz
    • PNY Geforce GTX 460 XLR8 (tested at both stock settings and the default overclocking on the card)
    • 9.00 GB of RAM

    Recent Maintenance:
    • Defragged using Contig and PowerDefragmenter
    • Fresh install of drivers (i.e. purged all previous nvidia drivers before I installed the card)
    • Ensured adequate power supply and air dusted

    Settings I've adjust in STO to no avail:
    • Reduced shadowed lights
    • Reduced lights per object
    • Toggled SSAO
    • Toggled AA/AF
    • Disabled Full Animations
    • Toggled VSync (since it normally runs above 70 fps)


    Symptoms:
    • Game runs fine 60% of the time at max advanced settings but I experiences random stuttering, where FPS drops from 60-70 down to a mere 11 FPS.

    Sanity Check in Other Games:
    • Metro 2033 runs fine at maxed settings, DX 11 mode
    • BF:BC 2 and Crysis run smoothly as well


    Workaround:
    Reduce lighting quality from high to low is the only setting that fixed the stuttering issue for me.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    It all has to do with the lighting being set to "high".

    I don't believe so. Lighting set to high works great... shadows, specifically, is the variable.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    I don't believe so. Lighting set to high works great... shadows, specifically, is the variable.

    Not on my system.

    I messed with everything other setting independently, none of them fixed the stuttering issue save for setting it to low.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    Not on my system.

    I messed with everything other setting independently, none of them fixed the stuttering issue save for setting it to low.

    Okay... my 260 handled lighting on high and shadows off perfectly smooth. Your 460 should too. There seems to be another variable here we haven't considered. How much RAM and what OS? 64/32bit?
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    For what it's worth I've noticed this same problem on a laptop with 1920x1080, Win7 x64, and a GTX 260m. In fact, I didn't know what the actual problem was until I stumbled across this thread.

    I'll disable shadows and see how it does.
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