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Fleet Cap (Is this going to be raised?)

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  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    It is unlikely such a thing would be viable through a simple Energy Credit transaction, maybe C-Store?
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    Nital-Jaxa wrote:
    Ok guys, and girls.

    For those who dont want/ dont see the reason in raising or removing the fleet cap. I understand your reasons, however they do not fit in with some larger fleets, examples of which are in posts above.

    Just FYI - I'm not against see the Fleet Cap fraised at all (I know they limit it because it does increase the need for more hardware and storage resourses in that even if you'r Fleet doesn't hit the cap; they still have to allow for the fact it may, etc. IF the Devs can raise the cap with no server response degredation; or negative system impact; then by all means they should.

    I was just trying to show how my Guild (which plays across multiple MMOs these days) handled a Guild cap situation when it arose in our WoW 'bracnch' cira 2007 (I quit WoW for good in 2008 myself.); a figured it might work until CFryptic makes a decision one way or the other on the issue.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    Brex2 wrote: »
    All I needed

    This has nothing to do with this, and I know what you are trying to do. It will not work. You bring this to the forums as a valid point, I agree with you and offer alternatives, but your fleets members and staff keep going out of their way to bringing this up.
    I know what I was a few weeks ago. Drop it.

    Not to further derail the topic but you've been a member of these forums for over a year and yet over one forth of your post on these forums seem to be on this topic. It does make me wonder if it hadn't been your former fleet that posted this if you would've spent as much time pointing out the "alternatives" that you know we are all aware of but have said many times that we don't like as we feel it would hinder our fleet.

    Also in response to others I would like to say that we don't mind the differing opinions as your all entitled to them however, were posting here about something we feel is hindering our fleets ability to grow and create the type of environment that we would like to create. While were happy to hear others have found acceptable ways of dealing with this issue without needing a fleet cap increase, for us we have not found a long term solution that we like. While we have alternatives and backup plans ready to go, we would rather see a cap increase as it would be the prefict solution for our fleet and not in any way inhibit other fleets that have already found something they find acceptable. While we hope the devs move quickly to increase the cap, we know that these changes seldom occur over night which is why we will continue to move on as we have been with fleet cleanouts as we hit the cap and other means if necessary but ultimately we hope an increase to the fleet cap could be implemented before we have to make a choice on the matter.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    Brex2 wrote: »
    It is unlikely such a thing would be viable through a simple Energy Credit transaction, maybe C-Store?

    Why not? You can buy bank tabs so why wouldnt the same thing work here in STO with buying more fleet spaces?
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    This is Ace-Dreadnought from Federation Fleet. I wanna throw in my vote for a cap raise.

    At the very least, let fleets "buy" a raised cap limit like we have to buy bank tabs. I can see that it would get old to have a fleet of over 500 inactives, but as you have heard, 3rd Fleet has trimmed their players about as much as they can. Give us all a chance to grow, Cryptic!

    Very good idea buddy !!
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    Yes, it would be great !
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    It does seem that anyone who offers an immediate alternative to a problem that has been in the works for quite a long time is "in disagreement". While if you would just once more read my posts you would see that I am in agreement that there needs to be a cap increase or removal, in the meantime those suggestions are ones you can try.

    And @Eddie, because Fleet bank space is already "there" as part of the fleet. Fleet member space is something that would have to be added to each fleet as per storage/hardware concerns.

    Oh and I think you need to check your maths... 27 (28 now) out of 225 (226 now) is hardly a fourth... unless of course my posts are somewhere somepeople (such as your good self) wouldn't be allowed to see... hard to imagine Cryptic would allow such a troll like me to see such areas, hm?
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    Brex2 wrote: »
    It does seem that anyone who offers an immediate alternative to a problem that has been in the works for quite a long time is "in disagreement". While if you would just once more read my posts you would see that I am in agreement that there needs to be a cap increase or removal, in the meantime those suggestions are ones you can try.

    And @Eddie, because Fleet bank space is already "there" as part of the fleet. Fleet member space is something that would have to be added to each fleet as per storage/hardware concerns.

    Oh and I think you need to check your maths... 27 (28 now) out of 225 (226 now) is hardly a fourth... unless of course my posts are somewhere somepeople (such as your good self) wouldn't be allowed to see... hard to imagine Cryptic would allow such a troll like me to see such areas, hm?

    Well the one thing that interests here is this...

    How does removing the Cap, or increasing it affect the Server? We have several Fleets with Alt fleets or reserve fleets, some reaching their max capacity.

    In theory people moving from being a solo player to a fleet member should not have such a impact on the server because the server already has their data (Handle name, class, ship, equipment etc) so when joining a fleet a player then can see the fleet chat and bank and see whos online in their fleet etc, that takes some data I do not know but maybe not enough to even affect the server as a whole. Now the thing is there is no increase in data in terms of players joining the fleet because end of the day there will be the same amount of players online, regardless if they are in a fleet or not, as the people online in the fleet and online in the game as solo players equals the same number of people online at the same time!

    In all we have to wait and see what Cryptic say before we can really understand any of why there is cap etc and if it can or why it cant be increased easily
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    Yes, I know that. But if there wasn't a problem, there wouldn't be a cap. So obviously somewhere, at some time there is or was a problem. We'd have to wait until a dev can answer these questions.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    Brex2 wrote: »
    Yes, I know that. But if there wasn't a problem, there wouldn't be a cap. So obviously somewhere, at some time there is or was a problem. We'd have to wait until a dev can answer these questions.

    Yes I agree...however I believe Blizzard have a 1000 member cap in World of Warcraft for their guilds...so why can not Crptic do the same for the Fleets as essential WoW is an MMO just like STO but a different type in terms of character but still a lot of similar mechanics.

    So what makes WoW different to STO when both games are on servers etc and most likely run the same way or at least to a good percentage
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    I support this
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    Because WoW might have twice the members and twice the income, thus twice the server capacity? Then again WoW also has half (being generous) the customer service... so ya never know :)
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    Brex2 wrote: »
    Oh and I think you need to check your maths... 27 (28 now) out of 225 (226 now) is hardly a fourth... unless of course my posts are somewhere somepeople (such as your good self) wouldn't be allowed to see... hard to imagine Cryptic would allow such a troll like me to see such areas, hm?

    You are correct my math was slightly off, at the time of posting 197 post were visible to me and for some reason I got caught up on the 100 digit. Even still it doesn't dismiss my point that you've been giving this thread a lot of attention. You've voiced your opinion, and various concerns yet for some reason this thread seems to interest you more than any other, even your closed beta forums that you have access to which I can't see. You apparently have posted more here than in the closed beta forums by my calculation which again begs the question, would you be giving this thread this much attention if it was posted by some other fleet?

    Also it is worth noting that I never called you a troll, and also that Im sure even the beta forums have a troll or 2 allowed in. None the less feel free to keep posting your "helpful" post.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    Indeed we should raise the cap to allow more members to come together and enjoy exploration together for the Federation.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    I support this to
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    Good afternoon. I posted the question "Will Fleet Member Cap be raised pass the current limit of 500?" in the Ask Cryptic: March Edition. Figured they give us an avenue to ask question might as well take advantage of it.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    Good afternoon. I posted the question "Will Fleet Member Cap be raised pass the current limit of 500?" in the Ask Cryptic: March Edition. Figured they give us an avenue to ask question might as well take advantage of it.

    Nice one! But lets see if we get an answer sooner than that! :D
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    Aye, because March is quite a long way away :p
    I'll try ask for some Cryptic staff to take a peek :)
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    I support this request.

    My idea on a solution is to set this 500 member cap to ACCOUNTs rather than Characters. This would give fleet rosters alot more breathing room as many of us regular players have a number of alts we like to switch between.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    I agree with the suggestion of the OP about this conundrum faced by successful, organised and popular Fleets.

    When it comes to managing recruitment numbers with such a small cap given that STO operates on a world server system compared to regional servers like in alot of other mmos it proves quite challenging.

    I think the whole area about how Cryptic supports what are essentially the bread and butter of free sustained subscription support needs to be looked at and their voices heard.

    Atleast give these Fleets more breathing space for their membership numbers is a step in the right direction.

    The organisers of these Fleets are essentially like dedicated community support workers who love your game (for good or ill :p) and help keep the STO community alive and kicking ALL for FREE, infact they pay you to play your mmo and entice others to stick with it!

    So take care of them Cryptic. ;)
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    AoC have a similar server setup. And there was Was one guild i know of had over 1500 toons in it. I do not think there is a limit on how many toons can be in one.

    The @handle idea I would not like for the most part. Game like GW does that. but the main problem with is that you only can be in one guild. If they can fix it so you still can be in more then one guild then i support it.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    Egile wrote:
    AoC have a similar server setup. And there was Was one guild i know of had over 1500 toons in it. I do not think there is a limit on how many toons can be in one.

    The @handle idea I would not like for the most part. Game like GW does that. but the main problem with is that you only can be in one guild. If they can fix it so you still can be in more then one guild then i support it.

    That's true, an game enforced "Multi-Clanning" rule would not go down well. especially with cross factions.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    Well, I would never suggest you join with your @handle.

    I would suggest that if there is to be a limit, you still join with your full character@handle, but that the mechanism that counts a fleet's progress to that limit counts only unique @handles. People could still be in multiple guilds, adding 1 toward their maximum allowed membership count that way, but there are people with two accounts each holding upward of a dozen characters who, if these people were the rule, would reduce the 500 character cap currently existing on fleets to 20 actual persons spread across potentially 24 different timezones. That'd make for a very inactive fleet.

    And I know people have brough up alt-fleets, but those have potentially serious downsides. You don't get to listen in on the Fleet channel when you're playing an alt. And yes, guilds can create their own unique game-wide channels, but then what does that reduce the built-in Fleet channel to? Promotions and event organizing is complicated. Sure most of us use out of game forums to coordinate such things, but again, then what good are the built-in tools for this? What will the consequences of alt-fleets be, when changes are made to the Fleet actions, making it easier to go into them as a fleet? Will people on alt-fleet characters still be able to join in, despite in terms of game mechanics being in a different fleet entirely? (No matter how similarly named they might be?)

    For our fleet (3rd) from what I can tell the issue mainly is pride. My favorite sin by far. There's a reason we all wear the same uniforms. There's a lot of people in the fleet who get a kick out of it when one of our ingame events gets noticed. And I'll admit, I miyself think it would be nice to see more room in the game to do things in truly large numbers. (Sheep in Spaaaaaaaace! Beh!)

    So, my question is, what are the downsides of bigger fleets, now and in the future? I suppose, though it's not ideal, that a morbidly obese fleet might end up with its people spread out across multiple instances of its own fleet starbase. But that'll be our problem, not Cryptic's. At least where I'm concerned the reasons for that are understood beforehand. Competition concerns against smaller fleets? I'd expect the upcoming changes to fleets (the scaling features based on membership, if I recall correctly?) would (and should) still hit a ceiling at some point, so there'd be no extra incentive for mega-fleeting there.

    I don't really see a problem here. And perhaps it's my limited imagination, but , putting changing the way the game counts aside for the moment, upping fleet membership limits sounds like it could be as simple as adding a zero.

    And if there's a popular demand for a zero, assuming the supply of zeroes is plentiful... do I need to finish this sentence? How do you type a shrug? :cool:
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    There is only one Zero. That is all.

    In all seriousness, pride IS a sin, y'all is goin' to hell :p

    Nah, but as it stands making the fleet to infinity would bug the scaling banks, since infinty (a non existant number) would be the maximum, and as a percentile of that, you would require perhaps a million people in one fleet to unlock one bank slot. 2500 doesn't sound like such a bad number, then you can have each 'bank' of bank slots unlocking every 10%. So >=250 members = 64 bank slots
    <250>500 = 128 bank slots etc.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    Brex2 wrote: »
    Aye, because March is quite a long way away :p
    I'll try ask for some Cryptic staff to take a peek :)

    Cool between your checking in and my email to Stahl yesterday we should get some kind of response soon. If not I can always give him a call.

    :cool:
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    Ahem, that's Mr Stahl :p
    Sounds good. The fleet increase will benefit everyone :)
    EDIT: Or rather, A fleet cap increase
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    There is only one reason, in my opinion, to have a quantity limited capacity for STO fleets. It cause game bugs that have yet to be resolved. otherwise, who does it bother, why would it be a challenge at all to open it up.

    All other arguments have no validation, any argument period against it is ridiculous. That is the bottom line. (unless, of course, it can cause challenges in the overall operation of the game client or server.)

    If there is a legitimate reason, then please try to fix it and open it up. If there is no problem or it has never been investigated, the developers , I believe, should try it. If there is this much interest or need it should be investigated.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    Nital-Jaxa wrote:
    Hello.


    So Please Cryptic:

    Raise the fleet members cap from 500 to 1000, or more! So we can face the final frontier and boldy go where no-one has gone before!


    Thankyou for your time.

    Admiral Nital Jaxa.

    I agree that.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    I'm in complete agreement with this idea. The fleet cap should be raised to a much more suitable number that reflects the large numbers of loyal players that organize into well structured and prominent fleets. Most of us realize that there must be some limit to prevent server issues, and client side issues, but those should be able to be sorted out with an adjustment to the cap representing a much more generous number for fleet membership.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    Brex2 wrote: »
    Ahem, that's Mr Stahl :p
    Sounds good. The fleet increase will benefit everyone :)
    EDIT: Or rather, A fleet cap increase
    Hey--a fleet increase would benefit everyone along with a fleet cap increase. :D
This discussion has been closed.