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Fleet Cap (Is this going to be raised?)

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  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    Agreed with that. Please remove the fleet cap (or increase it to 1000+).
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    Creating an Alt-Fleet is out of question!

    Our Fleet stands for unity! We want to be in one fleet. Not having our Alts seperated out, or even the local divisions.

    This is what Star Trek is about. Unity.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    We have hit the fleet cap again this morning, and it is becoming more difficult to remove inactive members. After freeing up 45 positions, albeit with great difficulty, last night. They have all been taken by this morning.

    We have got temporary solutions, for the time being, but we really do need this fleet cap increased, if at all possible.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    why did you set a limit so low for a world's MMO?
    must delete or mount this limit.

    pourquoi avoir fix
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    Just as Picard says to Riker.

    "Make it so!"

    I'll just add the please here because unlike Picard I'm polite and like kids. ;)

    EDIT: I of course tease about Picard not being polite.. :)
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    Eh? Sorry for this question but:

    Did 3rd fleet got really 500 Members? Or just 450 Placeholders or STO Quitter?

    I knew no fleet that gots 500 active players and if such a fleet exists, i will join it immediately if possible xD

    Raise the cap is only necessary if a Fleet gots really ~150-200(+Toons) active players not 50-75(incl. Toons) and 4XX placeholders :D
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    We have over 280 active players. At our peak times, we have had over 30 people online. We are an international fleet, so there is always someone online.

    Please remove the cap.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    Kritze wrote: »
    Eh? Sorry for this question but:

    Did 3rd fleet got really 500 Members? Or just 450 Placeholders or STO Quitter?

    I knew no fleet that gots 500 active players and if such a fleet exists, i will join it immediately if possible xD

    Raise the cap is only necessary if a Fleet gots really ~150-200(+Toons) active players not 50-75(incl. Toons) and 4XX placeholders :D

    12th Fleet has 315+ Active members (by @handle) in the fleet. We have 45 opening with the rest being held with inactive members of less than 90 days. We have a Federation alt fleet: 12th Fleet Reserves, it has about 200 alts in it. To solve to communication problem, we have a private global channel that is account wide and spans all cryptic products. We are anticipating that we will hit the fleet cap again in march when we reopen recruitment. An increase to 1000 would work for now, but we really would like the cap removed all together.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    Remember here one reason why fleets want the cap removed is to allow more new applicants and to allow peoples alts in the main fleet. That way the social interaction side is kept and it's easier to communicate. I guarantee you some people will talk in main fleet chat of the reserve fleet chat than the channel that has been made
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    Please remove this cap and allow Fleets just to grow as large as they want...
    The Federation does not have a limit on the number of member worlds, does it?
    Its all about social interaction... which is an integral part of a MMO... so what?

    To speak in Star-Trek phrases...
    Engage!
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    Sorry for saying this, guys:
    But did you ever hear about fleet management?

    Kicking inactive players, introducing fleet wings and other simple methods will help you to solve your problem.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    While ALT fleets will work for an active fleet that works on a lot of projects together the logistics can be a mess. With the large fleet as had been pointed out you already have issues with having a staff able to handle that many activie players. Finding such a staff BTW is a rare thing, speaking as an MMO veteran. To then multiply that level by two or three is just not feasable to maintain the same level of fleet cohesion.

    To make this a really effective option would mean Crytpic would need to add a whole new level of social tools to create alliances, ie multiple fleets under a single shared structure such as EVE does. However this would involved a great deal more programming and effort on Cryptics part than to simply raise the fleet cap, change the way it calculates or remove it all together.

    I personally am curious to hear from Cryptic on this matter as to why there is a cap at all. The only area I can imagine that it could be an issue is fleet bank access but even that I would not think would be that big of a deal for an increase.

    As to directly answer Kritz, I can say without a doubt that the 3rd is one of the most active fleets in the game today. I do not recall anytime in the last month I have seen our Teamspeak fall below 20 people on even more in game and not on comms. I have seen the comms load up to near 60 for extended periods on a regular basis. Now I do not play 24/7 so you can imagine that these numbers flucuate but so do the people that are on.

    I have been trying for a while now to sort out the voices that play when I do. You know what I mean, find people that play when I do, a smaller gorup and get to know them. The problem is that the players I see are changing and growing so much that I have had to resort to looking at using overlay software to keep track of who is on the comms system when playing.

    Cryptic should be glad however to see this thread and hear this material. This shows that STO is growing and this is all good. In fact I think this matter deserves more attention to it than the efforts to remove the fleet start-up limitations.

    I know for a fact that Cryptic is aware of this thread and has started discussing this. I hope they will get to us soon with an official response and position.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    Elvorien wrote: »
    Sorry for saying this, guys:
    But did you ever hear about fleet management?

    Kicking inactive players, introducing fleet wings and other simple methods will help you to solve your problem.

    First before you want to try and talk down to people take time to read the thread. We have already stated that at least in the 3rd we have weeded down through inactive members to the point that only accounts active within 30 days or less are left. That is pretty solid fleet management. Yet we still have the issue.

    ALT fleets, sister fleets and such are an alternative for sure but the game lacks to tools to effectively make use of these ideas and thus hurt the cohesion of the single fleet activity.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    Not to be dis[respectful to the question on fleet management, but ... I would ask that ( if we had room) you join the fleet and see that we are actively managed. While not trying to boast, yet the numbers speak for themselves. On a Saturday or after a new patch it is easy for us to have close to 100 players online.

    This number rotates throughout the day because we are truly a universal and international fleet. Now this would only explain why we want it, of course to raise our cap and allow more player to experience our numbers. this is not to say that our players do not engage in the operation of alts either - however I would again address that even our alts are very active. Players have alts for reasons.. and in the 3rd they play them as much as their primary toons ( for the most part) So for management its done. However it is ongoing and difficult. This is not a fleet of 20 people with 50 alts. ( which is possible if you buy them in the c-store LOL). This is a Fleet with hundreds of players SOME of which have alts, some of which do not.

    Now to address the issue on another front. Lets talk about the alts I just mentioned. Allowing players to purchase character slots is a great idea. I know some players who have many alts and actively engage in many different types of game play with them. So therefore by allowing all these alts and players wanting to play in the same fleet as their main and mostly their Fleet Brand with the friends they play with all the time left in the cold when a unit as awesome and inspiring as the 3rd fleet rolls along.

    For those of you who, again, doubt that we make request for all and that our request is out of NEED not GREED I invite you to visit our web www.3rdfleet.com and see just what an amazing and LARGE 3rd fleet is, enjoy the hospitality of our huge and knowledgeable player base. You will be amazed and perhaps even linger and hope further but alas you cannot - UNTIL THE CAP IS RAISED :) or eliminated.

    Thank you all for you patience in hearing my points, I hope they find nonobjective ears and that we may make strides towards unlimiting these numbers.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    Nital-Jaxa wrote:
    In terms of removing inactive players - we have been doing this so far, however some players do tend to have Real Lives and so cannot always maintain an active level, obviously you have to reserve around 5% for these.

    In terms of splitting into other fleets - what is the point really? We have looked into it, however the negatives outweight the positivies, its decentralising 3rdfleet staff, and bank access. Along with others, in most cases it doesnt work out. We did have a few fleets, for 3rdfleet, when it was the old fleet cap last year. Lets say we were very thankful when they raised the fleet cap. It was spreading the fleet thin.

    I like Joe's idea. However, the basics of alliance tools within 3rdfleet, are not capable to allow the majority of fleets to do such a thing. I think this would be a good alternative, but (from my perspective) it is far more complex.

    In terms of having a big fleet, ACES_HIGH - no its not a bad thing. There are great and fantastic reasons to have a large fleet, I am sure lotus, 12th and {UFP} will all agree. There are always active players, and a wide diversity. I know in 3rdfleet we have members across all timezones, so you are never alone when you play. It is also great to learn new things, and socialise with people you never could at home. We are in pararell to a Federation with a mixture of diversity, it is great, and in terms of the federation. The Federation would not split up, because it would lose its character, what makes the Federation, the Federation. The character and diversity, the fun and the games. :)
    Armsman wrote: »
    Hell, even WoW has a Guild cap of 400; that STO is able to get to 500 is impressive. As others have said, one solution is to create a Fleet for the Alts; or a Fleet for all your VA1s, etc; and then just make a Global channel that only Guildmembers across all your associated Fleets know about and join (that way you have Guild communication in game (assuming you aren't already using Ventrillo or Teamspeak); and you can continue just fine.
    Keldaria wrote: »
    Greetings =)

    I'm Vice Admiral Crystal Dayra of 3rd Fleet, I'm the one who routinely goes over the details and handles the fleet cleanouts as we get close to fleet cap of 500, this is the second time in the last 30 days that we've had to perform this fleet cleanout to try and freeup some space for new members. 29 days ago we managed to clear out 100+ spots removing only removing members who have been inactive for 90+ days, however our activity has really surged the last month or so, not only did we hit the cap again in less than 30 days but this time we were only able to free up 45 spots from members who have been inactive for 60+ days. I was also able to collect the following info, Of the remaining 455 characters in the fleet only 175 are alts, the remaining 280 characters are all active mains (less than 1 alt per main in the fleet) with a little over 90% being active within the last 30 days! (meaning a little less than 10% remain in the 30-60 day activity region).

    We have of course been going over the options like other fleets in our situation but the idea of splitting alts into another fleet or somehow starting a second fleet isn't really a viable option for us as it would leave the second fleet lacking in attention as when players would be on their alts they would find it difficult to stay connected to what ever is going on in the primary fleet. Beyond that it would also prove difficult to manage as most of our leadership would remain in our primary fleet, so it would be hard to properly oversee.

    There as of course other options we're still reviewing but ultimately the easiest way to fix the problem we and other fleets face would be to remove the cap so that we ultimately don't have to choose, as any alternative would have some sort of negative impact on our fleets future growth.
    Eddieboi wrote: »
    Remember here one reason why fleets want the cap removed is to allow more new applicants and to allow peoples alts in the main fleet. That way the social interaction side is kept and it's easier to communicate. I guarantee you some people will talk in main fleet chat of the reserve fleet chat than the channel that has been made

    Wow... just wow, also your left hand doesn't seem to know what the right is doing, your recruitment topic is testament to this. You need to sort out your logistics and then this would work as it works for so many others.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    Brex2 wrote: »
    Wow... just wow, also your left hand doesn't seem to know what the right is doing, your recruitment topic is testament to this. You need to sort out your logistics and then this would work as it works for so many others.

    Indeed, on a much smaller scale with the more smaller intimate fleets it may work.

    However, larger fleets, 12th fleet, 3rdfleet, lotus, VKF, {UFP} among the others. It doesnt work.

    If you take the time to read through the entire thread, you will see representatives, from these fleets, also supporting the fleet raise.

    If you can get it to work with your own fleet, then well done, I would like to ask the number of your member base. This might allow us to understand the proportionality betwen both fleets, and see how yours works, and if this can be translated to the large international fleets.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    Brex2 wrote: »
    Wow... just wow, also your left hand doesn't seem to know what the right is doing, your recruitment topic is testament to this. You need to sort out your logistics and then this would work as it works for so many others.

    Being like others is boring :eek:

    Seriosuly I think you are misreading way to much. Active recruitment makes perfect sense for any group. As I said in the thread and I am sure the leadership will back me, we will make room for people that want to join. If we have to get down to only mains in fleet with no alts then so be it.

    As for the hands knowing what they are doing this fleet has some of the best communications within it I have ever seen.

    What I do find funy here however is the negatvie posts. I mean seriously in what way does having this discussion hurt people that want to argue against this here? In fact why argue against this? Is the fact that our fleet brought this up somehow reason for people to suddenly attack our fleet management?

    Look if you do not think the idea can work then thats cool but to take small petty pot shots is just wrong.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    Hehe, you read too far into it as well. I am meerly pointing out that while a fleet cap raise would be nice, in the meantime this is a viable alternative, infact, having a private channel as your main point of contact works far better than just using the 'fleet' channel, as well as that, having a requistions fleet that holds the fleet bank (and updates a list, possibly a spreadsheet, of all the items in the bank) insures that you can have a large supply of everything you need (obviously until when scaling fleet banks come in - thus too presumably the cap would be raised). As well as that, having a fleet for alts prevents multiple PM's being sent to people when using the 'compose to fleet' option, and keep that a true value of the amount of your actual members.

    In essence this set up would work perfectly for now (until they change things again) insuring everyone would be able to stay in contact as neccessary, having a full bank space (plus additional space in the other two fleets) and then keeping the 'main' fleet as a type of directory. This set up would work much better than jamming everything into one fleet, again, until they change it.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    No one forces you to invite anybody at any time in your fleet.

    "Small methods" like pause fleet invitation for a short period of time will solve your problem.

    With this mass of players everytime someone is leaving for misc reasons, real life or anything else. After this short period of time there will be space to invite new people again.


    So it's still a problem of fleet management. Not the cap.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    Just out of curiosity, Brex... why should we WANT to split our Fleet divisions and Bank space to different Fleets? The way i see it, it would only complicate logistics, because you have to check at least 2 alts and 2 fleets, and that's just unwanted.

    Elvorien, we have a good working management on exactly these things. When someone is on a LOA and has this written down, he isn't expelled. I had a leave of several months because od studying, and it worked fine this way.

    We get it organised. And we WANT new players, to experience more socialising and bigger Fleet events. THAT is wehat Star Trek is, what a Fleet is. Organising in big style. We like it, we want it.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    You WANT to read first.

    I never mentioned anything about spliting your fleet divisions, meerly to create a 'directory' fleet which houses the main character of a player. Then you have a fleet for peoples alts, which would be the 'communtiy' fleet as it were. Then you have requstions staff (as an alt) in another fleet all by themselves preventing those pesky 'bank item misplacements' I keep hearing about even now.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    Ok guys, and girls.

    For those who dont want/ dont see the reason in raising or removing the fleet cap. I understand your reasons, however they do not fit in with some larger fleets, examples of which are in posts above. I deduce that you are probably in a smaller fleet, where the administration can easily do this, however in larger fleets this is impractical - so I ask politely for certain people to stop posting about having alt fleets, its already been discussed, and it is inviable for many large fleets.

    In raising the fleet cap, or removing it, it will have no negative impacts on small fleets.

    Thanks to those who are supporting this request, it means alot. Romulan Ale on DS9 is on Cris Carter! :)

    So really, I ask you, if you are going to post on here, to 'have a go' or be offensive to any fleet, regardless of which I fleet. I urge you not to. This thread, is a very serious thread, in requesting Cryptic, to raise/remove the fleet cap. I appreciate everyone's opinions, but not when there are small 'digs' at the fleet - that aint cool.

    Again thanks to everyone for all your support, and continued support.

    PS: Please could we get back on topic, for the greater good of all fleets?
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    You still haven't read... I said I accept that there needs to be an increase. However in the meantime these are some solutions you can try. And indeed as Elvorian said, there is no point in recruting to a fleet that has no space currently. So unless you're willing to make some changes and adapt around pre-existing conditions, stop recruting.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    im not really affected, with a 20-person fleet, but I heard that issue several times... its time to raise the cap because that problem exist... and/or to realise better fleetmanagment (wings, allies....)
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    Please folks lets get this thread back on track. The purpose of this thread is to ask Cryptic to raise or remove the fleet size cap. If you have a legitimate reason for them not to then by all means post something here. However assuming that a fleet is asking for this due to lack of organizational skills is just flaming and nothing more.

    A fleet that is able to reach this level and stay there for any length of time obvious has good skills.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    It's unfortunate the thread has been derailed slightly. We are absolutely aware of the alternatives, both short and long term. They have been discussed certainly at my level within the fleet and I'm sure by those above me.

    While they are viable and work after a fashion, they are not acceptable. We are a unified fleet that absolutely relies on it's social and dedicated members. It's a traversty that we're having to consider splitting these great players up into various groups. We want to play together, we should be able to play together. This is why the fleet cap does not make sense.

    Recruitment continues because 3rd Fleet holds true to it's values. I personally, as a Recruitment Officer, focus in on newer players particularly. I bring them to the 3rd because we can build them up and make them great players, colleagues and friends. We're not a monster fleet, we're a unified fleet that likes to make a positive impact on the game and how we play it. We have our values and this is why we continue to recruit.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    You're taking hostility where none is given, quite simply, yes, the fleet cap should be raised. In the meantime, the fleets in question should perform secondary and tertiary steps to circumnavigate existing limits.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    Nital-Jaxa wrote:
    Hello.

    I am Admiral Nital Jaxa (Commanding Officer of English Division) at 3rdfleet.
    On behalf of both 3rdfleet, andother fleets in Star Trek Online who face the same problem with membership caps, I am asking for a raise in the number of members in a fleet to be raised, it is currently set at 500.
    Unfortunately 3rdfleet, keeps hitting this 500 member limit, and even though we keep trimming the inactive players, they are now becoming few and far between.

    This poses a problem, how is a fleet meant to grow sufficiently. We would love to extend our fleet membership, above that of 500, as we support both English (all speaking), German and French members, from alot of countries and timezones around the world. You can easily see how easy it is for us to pass our fleet cap.

    We know, it probably is not just our fleet, lots of other fleets probably have the same problems. On behalf of them, and us, I ask of Cryptic to please increase the fleet member limit.

    We pride ourselves on trying to follow the utopian principles of the fictional Federation, through international boundaries, we grow and expand.

    So Please Cryptic:

    Raise the fleet members cap from 500 to 1000, or more! So we can face the final frontier and boldy go where no-one has gone before!


    Thankyou for your time.

    Admiral Nital Jaxa.

    I support this :) please cryptic give us more cap
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    I think the cap should be increased. I agree with Admiral Jaxa 100%!
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    Nital-Jaxa wrote:
    Indeed, on a much smaller scale with the more smaller intimate fleets it may work.

    However, larger fleets, 12th fleet, 3rdfleet, lotus, VKF, {UFP} among the others. It doesnt work.

    If you take the time to read through the entire thread, you will see representatives, from these fleets, also supporting the fleet raise.

    If you can get it to work with your own fleet, then well done, I would like to ask the number of your member base. This might allow us to understand the proportionality betwen both fleets, and see how yours works, and if this can be translated to the large international fleets.

    Smaller scale, Higher scale?
    Question: since you're vehemently willing to be citing numbers, that means the mentioned fleets have "500 active members", and by that it's implied 500 active mains not taking in account the *altaholism*, which seems to affect the game ;), who log in at least twice a week or more?

    Or it's also unused alts...?
This discussion has been closed.