Indeed, pretty conclusive imo given the source. Worth a repost to the massive thread above and justifiable grounds for Memory Alpha to accede to an edit.
cryptic really ought to talk to him about making some new ships. Would be cool as hell if they could get him to help flesh out the Romulan fleet in preparation for it becoming a playable faction. Cryptic did also just come into a pile of money thanks to all the new LTS people;)
Canon proof of Commodore rank in the TNG era, circa season 5 if that mention of Ensign Ro is anything to go by!
Notes jotted down on paper with no proof of where it came from or who wrote it is proof of nothing.
I notice there's no name listed on the cast side of the notes, nor do I recall any commodores in the shows or movies.
I am pro commodore rank, and would like to see it in game though.
Notes jotted down on paper with no proof of where it came from or who wrote it is proof of nothing.
I notice there's no name listed on the cast side of the notes, nor do I recall any commodores in the shows or movies.
I am pro commodore rank, and would like to see it in game though.
If it's source could be verified I think it would count as soft canon, only things seen on-screen are hard canon.
If it's source could be verified I think it would count as soft canon, only things seen on-screen are hard canon.
I would suggest that directions to production staff intended to ensure what does appear on screen is accurate and consistent carries sufficient weight to be considered hard canon. This isn't the idle speculation or inaccurate mathematics of the size of the Defiant, this is wardrobe being told "these are the ranks, these are their insignia, now damn well get it right".
That note is scribles on paper, it doesn't indicate who its for, where its from or anything, it is what is is, writing on paper. Nothing more nothing less. Now, put that note on CBS letter head or a TO/FROM indication and a subject line and we could then go some where. Not that i' doubting Drex, just providing a counter point.
and for the record i'm for a complete and total revamp of the ranks anyhow, we need more ensigns and LT JG!
this is wardrobe being told "these are the ranks, these are their insignia, now damn well get it right".
More like "These are the ranks, these are the insignia for them all - except for commodore. Sure you can extrapolate, but it might be something different, who knows?" The wording is also a bit odd. "1 star commodore" then "2 starfleet admiral?" Obviously a "2 star" is what they were going for, but it does raise the question of what happened to the 1 star admirals, and why there are 1 star commodores. Are there 2 star commodores? It looks like they started with "5 Star Fleet Admiral," and then somehow kept the "fleet" attached to the star throughout. And what happened to vice and rear admirals?
P.s. "Admiral" gets weirder and weirder the longer you look at it.
Edit: according to the Memory Alpha admiral articles, it looks like the ranks of Admirals had Fleet, regular, Vice, and Rear, and then got Rear lower half added at some point. The pips for Rear, regular and Vice each gain a dot after 2365.
I would suggest that directions to production staff intended to ensure what does appear on screen is accurate and consistent carries sufficient weight to be considered hard canon. This isn't the idle speculation or inaccurate mathematics of the size of the Defiant, this is wardrobe being told "these are the ranks, these are their insignia, now damn well get it right".
Can't get much more canon than that.
There's different levels of canon, hard canon, things seen onscreen in the shows and movies which can be taken as in-Trek fact, and soft canon which is unconfirmed info that should be taken with a grain of salt. Production notes, novels, video games (including STO), and cast & crew interviews are all soft canon, which can be contradictory and self-refuting at times.
The part of the note in question (the Commodore rank) was never established as true on-screen, to the point where there's a debate as to whether the Commodore rank survived until the TNG era.
Without use on-screen, the note is, at best, soft canon, rumor and hypothesis, not hard canon fact.
But don't get me wrong, I want the Commodore rank, I want it to be true, I just won't let my personal desires conflict with my evaluation of the facts of the matter.
The note may not be hard-canon proof of the existence of the commodore rank, yet it makes it far harder to argue that the rank truly was purposefully eliminated in the TNG era. The absence of proof is not the proof of absence, and that little note sorta proves that point.
Anyways, gorgeous renderings of the intrepid and constellation class vessels.
Comments
Z
Canon proof of Commodore rank in the TNG era, circa season 5 if that mention of Ensign Ro is anything to go by!
lol i would not have noticed that ^^
i dont see a "vice admiral" either ;P
Spread the word!!
Indeed, pretty conclusive imo given the source. Worth a repost to the massive thread above and justifiable grounds for Memory Alpha to accede to an edit.
Very cool images.
Notes jotted down on paper with no proof of where it came from or who wrote it is proof of nothing.
I notice there's no name listed on the cast side of the notes, nor do I recall any commodores in the shows or movies.
I am pro commodore rank, and would like to see it in game though.
Those notes are about as canon as you can get. The production staff used that notes to keep things consistent from episode to episode.
Just a thought.
I seem to recall seeing something on Drexler's website about some notes for the Defiant's size... we all see how well that worked out.
Or just add the model to the Commander (?) level cruisers.
If it's source could be verified I think it would count as soft canon, only things seen on-screen are hard canon.
Also, I didn't realize there were windows on the thinnest portion on the back (aft) of the engineering hull of the Intrepid class.
Agreed. The Constellation would be a great addition to the game at either T2 or T3.
What "minor detals" are we talking about, exactly?
I would suggest that directions to production staff intended to ensure what does appear on screen is accurate and consistent carries sufficient weight to be considered hard canon. This isn't the idle speculation or inaccurate mathematics of the size of the Defiant, this is wardrobe being told "these are the ranks, these are their insignia, now damn well get it right".
Can't get much more canon than that.
and for the record i'm for a complete and total revamp of the ranks anyhow, we need more ensigns and LT JG!
More like "These are the ranks, these are the insignia for them all - except for commodore. Sure you can extrapolate, but it might be something different, who knows?" The wording is also a bit odd. "1 star commodore" then "2 starfleet admiral?" Obviously a "2 star" is what they were going for, but it does raise the question of what happened to the 1 star admirals, and why there are 1 star commodores. Are there 2 star commodores? It looks like they started with "5 Star Fleet Admiral," and then somehow kept the "fleet" attached to the star throughout. And what happened to vice and rear admirals?
P.s. "Admiral" gets weirder and weirder the longer you look at it.
Edit: according to the Memory Alpha admiral articles, it looks like the ranks of Admirals had Fleet, regular, Vice, and Rear, and then got Rear lower half added at some point. The pips for Rear, regular and Vice each gain a dot after 2365.
There's different levels of canon, hard canon, things seen onscreen in the shows and movies which can be taken as in-Trek fact, and soft canon which is unconfirmed info that should be taken with a grain of salt. Production notes, novels, video games (including STO), and cast & crew interviews are all soft canon, which can be contradictory and self-refuting at times.
The part of the note in question (the Commodore rank) was never established as true on-screen, to the point where there's a debate as to whether the Commodore rank survived until the TNG era.
Without use on-screen, the note is, at best, soft canon, rumor and hypothesis, not hard canon fact.
But don't get me wrong, I want the Commodore rank, I want it to be true, I just won't let my personal desires conflict with my evaluation of the facts of the matter.
Anyways, gorgeous renderings of the intrepid and constellation class vessels.