CBS and Cryptic can only draw from hard canon, that is, live actions shows & movies. If it came from a book or a comic, it's not hard canon, and frankly, doesn't count. There are a few exceptions, notably novels authorized by CBS that were written by actual series script writers or producers.
So the Starship Spotter, which puts forth the Akira as a Carrier, was neither written by a script writer, nor a producer, and it wasn't officially licensed by CBS, so it doesn't count towards canon anymore than fanfiction does.
Oh, and just FYI, Cryptic can't draw from other video games, so Star Trek Armada I & II can't be used as precedent, and they aren't canon either.
It is said in DS9 that the federation has fighter type attack craft, they were used in the war. However to my knowledge, it was never specifically stated where said craft were launched from. The idea of fed only consumables that allow you to launch fighters that are restricted to specific tier ships would make sense. Almost like how dual cannons are not equipible on cruisers, smaller vessels would be unable to carry large amounts of smaller fighters in their shuttle bays.
Now while this would mean that more cruisers and science vessels would have access to these fighters/support ships (owing to the larger sizes of captain and higher ranked ships). Escorts could have their own unique fighters they could launch, and these ships would have to be fewer in number and more typecasted then the generic fighters that everyone else could use.
An example would be that, for a captain level escort, they could have at each launch 2 fighters exit the ship. These fighters would have specific orders assigned to them based on standard and powered attacks.
Types that could be included are:
Disable subsystem- they would target a specific subsystem of the targeted enemy
Bomber- would only use torpedoes on enemies, using both high yield lvl 1 and torpedo spread lvl 1
Shield/hull heal- each would only heal only shields or only hull, and at a rate comparable to most other healing pets
Intercepts- would deal very little damage while staying close to the ship, acting much like the preorder defense cannon destroying torpedoes and mines
Options for non-escort class ships would be less diverse but more capable
Fighter wings - 3 to 6 sturdy fighters capable of using most first level tac skills
Repair skiffs - 2 repair drones available in both shield and hull healing formats, and equipped with abilities to increase their own lifespan such as reverse shield polarity and emergency power to structural integrity field
Heavy attack craft - this would be a single ship with more bulk and health then a standard shuttle, in terms of ability somewhere between the fighter pets that Klingons get and the bird of prey pets they get. It would receive a more defensive based skill set assigned to it to coincide with starfleet's defensive motif.
A system like this would be more in line with the ship types starfleet uses and would still leave the Klingon carrier as unique. Each fighter item would only have finite uses, and it could be programed as such that additional waves could not be summoned while the original still exist. Furthermore each fighter launched could remove some crew from your ship, which would make sense if you are not a dedicated carrier, the more you launch the more you loose.
There were fighters seen on screen, however, they were seen going to warp with the rest of the Fleet!
Warp-capable fighters don't need a Carrier. Think of them more like PT boats, small independent craft used to patrol and harass. More heavily armed than Runabouts, to be sure, but not fighters, and definitely not in need of a mother ship.
"When the distance is wide, the attacking opponent requires some sort of preparation. Therefore, attack him on his preparation of attack." "To reach me, you must move to me. Your attack offers me an opportunity to intercept you."This means intercepting an opponent's attack with an attack of your own instead of a simple block.
When confronting an incoming attack, the attack is parried or deflected and a counter attack is delivered at the same time. Not as advanced as a stop hit but more effective than blocking and counter attacking in sequence. This is also practiced by some Chinese martial arts.
They could include small squadrons of fighters, say 6 per ship, among fighting vessels replacing some of their shuttle complement.
That way they don't need a dedicated Carrier, especially if the fighters could use the shuttle's maintenance equipment.
This would remove the Carriers "vulnerability" while getting many squads of fighters into a battle that could then form wings to attack and break up and scatter to repair.
They could include small squadrons of fighters, say 6 per ship, among fighting vessels replacing some of their shuttle complement.
That way they don't need a dedicated Carrier, especially if the fighters could use the shuttle's maintenance equipment.
This would remove the Carriers "vulnerability" while getting many squads of fighters into a battle that could then form wings to attack and break up and scatter to repair.
I think a good compromise is making fed fighters be able to be equipped to weapon slots. Its a fair trade-off.
I know that I'm a whiner and complainer but your continual complaints, demands, and cries for action aren't coming across very well. Stop demanding that Cryptic follow your absolute vision for the game and have some consideration for your fellow players. Not everyone plays the way you do nor do they want what you want. Carriers for Feds is not a problem.
Continually raising your voice is going to get you ignored.
"When the distance is wide, the attacking opponent requires some sort of preparation. Therefore, attack him on his preparation of attack." "To reach me, you must move to me. Your attack offers me an opportunity to intercept you."This means intercepting an opponent's attack with an attack of your own instead of a simple block.
When confronting an incoming attack, the attack is parried or deflected and a counter attack is delivered at the same time. Not as advanced as a stop hit but more effective than blocking and counter attacking in sequence. This is also practiced by some Chinese martial arts.
I like Bruce Lee.
I am not sure if it's so off-topic, as it seems to fit into why we use Carriers in the real world - we don't have to move very far to reach you, giving you less time to mount a counter-attack.
But that's why Carriers don't seem to make sense in Startrek - Carriers and Pets seem to attack within the same range. You don't really project your power very far (5 km compared to the interstellar distances we are travelling?). No need to send a Carrier anywhere in hope of getting a "reach" advantage where a Cruiser would not suffice...
Especially since the latest series showed that our ships are capable of ground bombardment.
I know that I'm a whiner and complainer but your continual complaints, demands, and cries for action aren't coming across very well. Stop demanding that Cryptic follow your absolute vision for the game and have some consideration for your fellow players. Not everyone plays the way you do nor do they want what you want. Carriers for Feds is not a problem.
Continually raising your voice is going to get you ignored.
So what you're basically saying is because I don't have Blue on my name I have no opinion. that's nice.
And as for canon, did nobody see DS9 and any of the fights? The Valkyrie fighter itself is cannonical with regards to the series. They were used in the Dominion War.
I don't know why it would be such a big issue, I personally would love to see a fed carrier, it would be great fun XD *Also would love to see a Jupiter at Fleet Admiral rank, Sci class like it is when u fight it. And sad they changed the U.S.S. Victory to the less impressive dreadnought"
And as for canon, did nobody see DS9 and any of the fights? The Valkyrie fighter itself is cannonical with regards to the series. They were used in the Dominion War.
I don't know why it would be such a big issue, I personally would love to see a fed carrier, it would be great fun XD *Also would love to see a Jupiter at Fleet Admiral rank, Sci class like it is when u fight it. And sad they changed the U.S.S. Victory to the less impressive dreadnought"
Keep up the good work cryptic in my opinion.
100% agree with this!!
I would also like to see way more carrier in game.
I'd love to have more little ships doing dogfights around the big ones.
reminds me on star wars.
CBS and Cryptic can only draw from hard canon, that is, live actions shows & movies. If it came from a book or a comic, it's not hard canon, and frankly, doesn't count. There are a few exceptions, notably novels authorized by CBS that were written by actual series script writers or producers.
So the Starship Spotter, which puts forth the Akira as a Carrier, was neither written by a script writer, nor a producer, and it wasn't officially licensed by CBS, so it doesn't count towards canon anymore than fanfiction does.
Oh, and just FYI, Cryptic can't draw from other video games, so Star Trek Armada I & II can't be used as precedent, and they aren't canon either.
I thought it was agreed that canon had little to do with the game anymore... (Back further in the thread) STO is already full of "non-canon" things, plus it takes place far into the future of the Star Trek universe where we have no idea what types of new things have been made. This was done on purpose so that the designers could have some freedom in their ideas.
There were fighters seen on screen, however, they were seen going to warp with the rest of the Fleet!
Warp-capable fighters don't need a Carrier. Think of them more like PT boats, small independent craft used to patrol and harass. More heavily armed than Runabouts, to be sure, but not fighters, and definitely not in need of a mother ship.
Yes you are right that the fighters seen in DS9 were warp capable, however that does not mean a ship brought them there. Think about it, a Peregrine Fighter is a 1-2 maned ship with no replicators and no bathroom. It took a few days to get to DS9 from any other major Federation installation that would hypothetically have the Peregrine housed. So are we to believe that someone flew the Peregrine for 2-3 days without food or a bathroom? Logic tells us they were all brought on some ship of some kind, and it naturally leads to a Carrier, even if the carrier was not shown or battle worthy.
I thought it was agreed that canon had little to do with the game anymore... (Back further in the thread) STO is already full of "non-canon" things, plus it takes place far into the future of the Star Trek universe where we have no idea what types of new things have been made. This was done on purpose so that the designers could have some freedom in their ideas.
I was merely pointing out the error in the assumption that Fed Carriers are hard canon, or that the sources for Fed Carriers can be used by Cryptic. That person (obviously) hadn't read the earlier parts of the thread, and I was bringing them up to speed.
Yes you are right that the fighters seen in DS9 were warp capable, however that does not mean a ship brought them there. Think about it, a Peregrine Fighter is a 1-2 maned ship with no replicators and no bathroom. It took a few days to get to DS9 from any other major Federation installation that would hypothetically have the Peregrine housed. So are we to believe that someone flew the Peregrine for 2-3 days without food or a bathroom? Logic tells us they were all brought on some ship of some kind, and it naturally leads to a Carrier, even if the carrier was not shown or battle worthy.
Indeed, from the number of times crewmembers of the Enterprise took leave via shuttlecraft, sometimes taking weeks to get to their destinations, we can logically deduce that all shuttlecraft larger than a Type 15 Shuttlepod (which isn't warp-capable) had some kind of bathroom facilities, perhaps that folded out of the wall, like in Firefly.
Also, Runabouts have replicators, Type 7 Shuttles have Replicators, and Federation Attack Fighters are larger, faster, and more heavily armed then either, what makes you think they don't have replicators?
Every indication is that Federation Attack fighters have bathrooms, replicators, and operate independently.
Don't shoehorn them into a Carrier just because you want one, make your case honestly.
I was merely pointing out the error in the assumption that Fed Carriers are hard canon, or that the sources for Fed Carriers can be used by Cryptic. That person (obviously) hadn't read the earlier parts of the thread, and I was bringing them up to speed.
Indeed, from the number of times crewmembers of the Enterprise took leave via shuttlecraft, sometimes taking weeks to get to their destinations, we can logically deduce that all shuttlecraft larger than a Type 15 Shuttlepod (which isn't warp-capable) had some kind of bathroom facilities, perhaps that folded out of the wall, like in Firefly.
Also, Runabouts have replicators, Type 7 Shuttles have Replicators, and Federation Attack Fighters are larger, faster, and more heavily armed then either, what makes you think they don't have replicators?
Every indication is that Federation Attack fighters have bathrooms, replicators, and operate independently.
Don't shoehorn them into a Carrier just because you want one, make your case honestly.
I was under the impression that the Peregrine were smaller than "normal" shuttles. I had read somewhere that they were, and also I was thinking about the DS9 episode where Kira and Jadzia were on one of the moons of Bajor and they had to fly one of the Maquis Peregrine fighters to escape. I imagine that the federation ones are slightly different, but not too much. Remember, the Maquis stole the Federation fighters to use in their resistance.
I was under the impression that the Peregrine were smaller than "normal" shuttles. I had read somewhere that they were, and also I was thinking about the DS9 episode where Kira and Jadzia were on one of the moons of Bajor and they had to fly one of the Maquis Peregrine fighters to escape. I imagine that the federation ones are slightly different, but not too much. Remember, the Maquis stole the Federation fighters to use in their resistance.
Quiiliitiila
I remember that episode! It's funny, the set for the Maquis Raider was actually a redress of the Runabout Cockpit, just like the Val Jean in the first episode of Voyager.
But the mistake is assuming that there's just one size of Maquis Raider!
The Maquis raider was a type of light starship originally designed under Federation auspices and later commonly used by the Maquis in their fight against the Cardassians. They came in varying sizes. The smaller variant had a small cockpit with seating for two, and a cargo area in the aft section. The larger version had a separate and much more spacious cockpit which held four stations, and larger crew facilities in the aft sections. These raiders have been in use for a long period of time, some using 39 year-old rebuilt engines.
I remember that episode! It's funny, the set for the Maquis Raider was actually a redress of the Runabout Cockpit, just like the Val Jean in the first episode of Voyager.
But the mistake is assuming that there's just one size of Maquis Raider!
You've got me there... I guess I did jump the gun and assume that that fighter they flew was the Peregrine...
I remember that episode! It's funny, the set for the Maquis Raider was actually a redress of the Runabout Cockpit, just like the Val Jean in the first episode of Voyager.
But the mistake is assuming that there's just one size of Maquis Raider!
watch episode of ds9 where sisko retakes ds9, there where fighter shaped similar to a periquin but size of
a type 9 shuttle(first few years of voyager), and they where attached to a federation carrier(yes in ds9 the akira was a carrier the pod on top was a fighter bay carried about 15 fighters, wasnt untill first contact that the pod became a topedo module.)
dude read the start fleet academy star ship training manual, dreadnought(three nacelle cruisers) are carrier ships, hence the galaxy X is a carrier .
Books aren't explicitly endorsed by CBS aren't canon, and the only books ever endorsed as such were written by staff script writers and series Producers. The Starfleet Technical Manual: Training Command Starfleet Academy (which is what I think you were referring to) was neither, it doesn't count.
Unless it was written by: Gene Roddenberry, Gene L. Coon, John Meredyth Lucas. Fred Freiberger, Robert Justman, Steven W. Carabatsos, D.C. Fontana, John D.F. Black, Byron Haskin, Michael Piller, Rick Berman, Jeri Taylor, Maurice Hurley, Ronald D. Moore, Brannon Braga, Joe Menosky, Ren
Sometimes my memory fails me.. But I don't think he was ever a Producer or staff Script writer.. I know he did art conceptions and ship designs.. But that doesn't qualify.
So what you're basically saying is because I don't have Blue on my name I have no opinion. that's nice.
I specifically did not say that. No you're making stuff up to suit your personal campaign.
What I see is one person going on an on about a whole bunch of points that don't really make much of a difference. All your doing is upping your post count to no purpose. I think your a troll or some other kind of forum warrior so I'm not going to bother anymore.
Sometimes my memory fails me.. But I don't think he was ever a Producer or staff Script writer.. I know he did art conceptions and ship designs.. But that doesn't qualify.
Wait... Not to be argumentative, but why are the concept artists for Star Trek shows not allowed to have canon stuff? Most of the things they draw end up in the show and they are paid to do it by the producers of Star Trek.
Comments
CBS and Cryptic can only draw from hard canon, that is, live actions shows & movies. If it came from a book or a comic, it's not hard canon, and frankly, doesn't count. There are a few exceptions, notably novels authorized by CBS that were written by actual series script writers or producers.
So the Starship Spotter, which puts forth the Akira as a Carrier, was neither written by a script writer, nor a producer, and it wasn't officially licensed by CBS, so it doesn't count towards canon anymore than fanfiction does.
Oh, and just FYI, Cryptic can't draw from other video games, so Star Trek Armada I & II can't be used as precedent, and they aren't canon either.
Now while this would mean that more cruisers and science vessels would have access to these fighters/support ships (owing to the larger sizes of captain and higher ranked ships). Escorts could have their own unique fighters they could launch, and these ships would have to be fewer in number and more typecasted then the generic fighters that everyone else could use.
An example would be that, for a captain level escort, they could have at each launch 2 fighters exit the ship. These fighters would have specific orders assigned to them based on standard and powered attacks.
Types that could be included are:
Disable subsystem- they would target a specific subsystem of the targeted enemy
Bomber- would only use torpedoes on enemies, using both high yield lvl 1 and torpedo spread lvl 1
Shield/hull heal- each would only heal only shields or only hull, and at a rate comparable to most other healing pets
Intercepts- would deal very little damage while staying close to the ship, acting much like the preorder defense cannon destroying torpedoes and mines
Options for non-escort class ships would be less diverse but more capable
Fighter wings - 3 to 6 sturdy fighters capable of using most first level tac skills
Repair skiffs - 2 repair drones available in both shield and hull healing formats, and equipped with abilities to increase their own lifespan such as reverse shield polarity and emergency power to structural integrity field
Heavy attack craft - this would be a single ship with more bulk and health then a standard shuttle, in terms of ability somewhere between the fighter pets that Klingons get and the bird of prey pets they get. It would receive a more defensive based skill set assigned to it to coincide with starfleet's defensive motif.
A system like this would be more in line with the ship types starfleet uses and would still leave the Klingon carrier as unique. Each fighter item would only have finite uses, and it could be programed as such that additional waves could not be summoned while the original still exist. Furthermore each fighter launched could remove some crew from your ship, which would make sense if you are not a dedicated carrier, the more you launch the more you loose.
Warp-capable fighters don't need a Carrier. Think of them more like PT boats, small independent craft used to patrol and harass. More heavily armed than Runabouts, to be sure, but not fighters, and definitely not in need of a mother ship.
Me too. But I'm not Bruce Lee.
That way they don't need a dedicated Carrier, especially if the fighters could use the shuttle's maintenance equipment.
This would remove the Carriers "vulnerability" while getting many squads of fighters into a battle that could then form wings to attack and break up and scatter to repair.
I think a good compromise is making fed fighters be able to be equipped to weapon slots. Its a fair trade-off.
Remember, fed ships are versatile.
No.
I know that I'm a whiner and complainer but your continual complaints, demands, and cries for action aren't coming across very well. Stop demanding that Cryptic follow your absolute vision for the game and have some consideration for your fellow players. Not everyone plays the way you do nor do they want what you want. Carriers for Feds is not a problem.
Continually raising your voice is going to get you ignored.
Or make something like the Stingers with unlimited charges.
I am not sure if it's so off-topic, as it seems to fit into why we use Carriers in the real world - we don't have to move very far to reach you, giving you less time to mount a counter-attack.
But that's why Carriers don't seem to make sense in Startrek - Carriers and Pets seem to attack within the same range. You don't really project your power very far (5 km compared to the interstellar distances we are travelling?). No need to send a Carrier anywhere in hope of getting a "reach" advantage where a Cruiser would not suffice...
Especially since the latest series showed that our ships are capable of ground bombardment.
So what you're basically saying is because I don't have Blue on my name I have no opinion. that's nice.
Only the Blues are true STO fans
/sarcasm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9W2cnN6mFi0
And as for canon, did nobody see DS9 and any of the fights? The Valkyrie fighter itself is cannonical with regards to the series. They were used in the Dominion War.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dbGs93JFfb0&feature=related
I don't know why it would be such a big issue, I personally would love to see a fed carrier, it would be great fun XD *Also would love to see a Jupiter at Fleet Admiral rank, Sci class like it is when u fight it. And sad they changed the U.S.S. Victory to the less impressive dreadnought"
Keep up the good work cryptic in my opinion.
I would also like to see way more carrier in game.
I'd love to have more little ships doing dogfights around the big ones.
reminds me on star wars.
I thought it was agreed that canon had little to do with the game anymore... (Back further in the thread) STO is already full of "non-canon" things, plus it takes place far into the future of the Star Trek universe where we have no idea what types of new things have been made. This was done on purpose so that the designers could have some freedom in their ideas.
Yes you are right that the fighters seen in DS9 were warp capable, however that does not mean a ship brought them there. Think about it, a Peregrine Fighter is a 1-2 maned ship with no replicators and no bathroom. It took a few days to get to DS9 from any other major Federation installation that would hypothetically have the Peregrine housed. So are we to believe that someone flew the Peregrine for 2-3 days without food or a bathroom? Logic tells us they were all brought on some ship of some kind, and it naturally leads to a Carrier, even if the carrier was not shown or battle worthy.
Quiiliitiila
I was merely pointing out the error in the assumption that Fed Carriers are hard canon, or that the sources for Fed Carriers can be used by Cryptic. That person (obviously) hadn't read the earlier parts of the thread, and I was bringing them up to speed.
Does the term "Class 2 Claustrophobia" mean anything to you? In an episode of Voyager, Tom Paris remarks how Starfleet Academy shoves half a dozen cadets in Class 2 shuttles for weeks at a time. If a Class 2 shuttle has bathroom facilities (though not shower facilities), then so do Federation Attack Fighters.
Indeed, from the number of times crewmembers of the Enterprise took leave via shuttlecraft, sometimes taking weeks to get to their destinations, we can logically deduce that all shuttlecraft larger than a Type 15 Shuttlepod (which isn't warp-capable) had some kind of bathroom facilities, perhaps that folded out of the wall, like in Firefly.
Also, Runabouts have replicators, Type 7 Shuttles have Replicators, and Federation Attack Fighters are larger, faster, and more heavily armed then either, what makes you think they don't have replicators?
Every indication is that Federation Attack fighters have bathrooms, replicators, and operate independently.
Don't shoehorn them into a Carrier just because you want one, make your case honestly.
I was under the impression that the Peregrine were smaller than "normal" shuttles. I had read somewhere that they were, and also I was thinking about the DS9 episode where Kira and Jadzia were on one of the moons of Bajor and they had to fly one of the Maquis Peregrine fighters to escape. I imagine that the federation ones are slightly different, but not too much. Remember, the Maquis stole the Federation fighters to use in their resistance.
Quiiliitiila
This is exactly why there should be no more carriers.
Star Trek is not Star Wars.
I remember that episode! It's funny, the set for the Maquis Raider was actually a redress of the Runabout Cockpit, just like the Val Jean in the first episode of Voyager.
But the mistake is assuming that there's just one size of Maquis Raider!
You've got me there... I guess I did jump the gun and assume that that fighter they flew was the Peregrine...
Quiiliitiila
dude read the start fleet academy star ship training manual, dreadnought(three nacelle cruisers) are carrier ships, hence the galaxy X is a carrier .
http://www.startrekonline.com/character_profiles/1102588/view
watch episode of ds9 where sisko retakes ds9, there where fighter shaped similar to a periquin but size of
a type 9 shuttle(first few years of voyager), and they where attached to a federation carrier(yes in ds9 the akira was a carrier the pod on top was a fighter bay carried about 15 fighters, wasnt untill first contact that the pod became a topedo module.)
I don t care
it would still be cool to see more carriers
deal with it
There is no book with this exact name.
There is a book with a similar name, but it's just a piece of fan-fiction and therfore of no concern.
Books aren't explicitly endorsed by CBS aren't canon, and the only books ever endorsed as such were written by staff script writers and series Producers. The Starfleet Technical Manual: Training Command Starfleet Academy (which is what I think you were referring to) was neither, it doesn't count.
Unless it was written by: Gene Roddenberry, Gene L. Coon, John Meredyth Lucas. Fred Freiberger, Robert Justman, Steven W. Carabatsos, D.C. Fontana, John D.F. Black, Byron Haskin, Michael Piller, Rick Berman, Jeri Taylor, Maurice Hurley, Ronald D. Moore, Brannon Braga, Joe Menosky, Ren
Sometimes my memory fails me.. But I don't think he was ever a Producer or staff Script writer.. I know he did art conceptions and ship designs.. But that doesn't qualify.
I specifically did not say that. No you're making stuff up to suit your personal campaign.
What I see is one person going on an on about a whole bunch of points that don't really make much of a difference. All your doing is upping your post count to no purpose. I think your a troll or some other kind of forum warrior so I'm not going to bother anymore.
Wait... Not to be argumentative, but why are the concept artists for Star Trek shows not allowed to have canon stuff? Most of the things they draw end up in the show and they are paid to do it by the producers of Star Trek.
Just a thought,
Quiiliitiila