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  • Eirghan - SanctuaryEirghan - Sanctuary Posts: 92 Arc User
    edited June 2015
    They literally gave over 100mil worth of items to EVERY char you own (7 S packs ea, 6 A cards ea, etc) for just logging in a month ago, so sorry if I seem upset that people are complain about sub, which you can still make cheaply with tokens, of all the things there are to complain about in this game.



    Basically this.

    Not sure if the same applies to other servers but at the moment due to the HUGE profit PWE is making off of putting the new items into packs at a high drop rate which ALL of the major cashers are buying, token prices have dropped to nearly half of what they were last week. And yes, we can all complain about "omg wat r dey doing putting new stuff in packs only b:shocked this is insanity!" but face it. They have made a killing off of releasing a few items off of a few cashers on the server WHILE lowering the price of necessary items for the general population. At the same time ensuring that players (not the new players who are just joining who we are arguing for here, but people who got 10, 50, 1000 celestial toons off of the pills) are not abusing nirvana tokens therefore causing farmable items (like subs and mirages) to be too low in value for new players to farm and support themselves off of. This is an insanely brilliant balancing act for the server's economic health in my own opinion.

    Yes it might be slightly exaggerated the original post. I take up PWI on every free offer they give us and I've never gotten any character full +10 for free. But i do have a nice nest egg of event gold allowing me to roam fully charmed 100% of the time just for luls...

    Add to that while mirages on sanctuary have increased slightly in price (appr 1k coins each), and subs have sky rocketed to insane prices (more than they should be at if anyone had half a brain and used tokens to make them) it's true. We are way too entitled, and all about the wrong things.
    ♥ Eirghan ♥ Sage Seeker ♥ 105x3 ♥
    ♥ Current Gear: mypers.pw/1.8/#140780/ ♥
  • __Sami__ - Archosaur__Sami__ - Archosaur Posts: 220 Arc User
    edited June 2015


    Yes it might be slightly exaggerated the original post. I take up PWI on every free offer they give us and I've never gotten any character full +10 for free. But i do have a nice nest egg of event gold allowing me to roam fully charmed 100% of the time just for luls...


    It really depends. We have bout 1 spend promo each month. I would say bigger merchants average to ~500g spent on each. Bit less with bad sales if they want something, more on good sales even if they dont necessarily need the promo items. That would come at 6 oceans(450g). Fastforward a year and you will be sitting on ~70 oceans. Thats more than enough to +10 everything from +6, which is easy with refine aids. Assume its clean toon and you need everything refined. You get 1-7 orbs from treasure chest by hitting certain marks, which is how wep should be refined.

    3 for wep, 6 * 4 = 24 for armors, 4 * 4 = 16 for orns. Total so 43 oceans. In reality nobody has that much pieces to refine. Cause you will be using some kind of non refinable orns and/or you have toon you can stash stuff from. I am gonna need 6 pieces for my alt project. Either way by having least 27 oceans over what you need, you are gonna get fair bit to +11 with tishas.

    Ps. I do know of a friend who has full +10 on their alt with all promo oceans by my understanding.
    __Sami__ - Archer - 105/104/102 - mypers.pw/1.8/#135691 - Active
    HideYoHubby - Assassin - 105/101/101 - Inactive
    WnbTank - Barbarian - 103/101/101 - Catshop
  • demansfairydemansfairy Posts: 456 Arc User
    edited June 2015
    The only part of this post I read....cant tell if trolling or unintentional mis spelled word but....

    starts a slow clap.

    Combination of using a phone with auto correct to post and me be terrible at spelling, so unintentional.
    full +12 SB, currently lv 105 105 105
  • Bellarie - Raging TideBellarie - Raging Tide Posts: 603 Arc User
    edited June 2015
    The amount of ego in this thread is both amusing and pathetic.

    Merchanting - Not as easy as many of you make it sound. A pretty steep starting point is pretty much required(10 mil isn't going to get you anywhere). There is a lot of luck involved, from correctly making predictions to having good timing. Which not everyone has time to keep an eye on the market and buy/sell at the right moments. Furthermore, not everyone feels comfortable with gambling what they have when the game continues to nerf methods of earning money that aren't "a job". Some people play this game for fun, stress relief, to unwind, not to play stock market and economic gambling. This game isn't called "Perfect Merchants" last I checked. Also, some people have mental handicaps that make understanding and correctly applying things like merchanting, virtually impossible.
    In summary, merchanting isn't "easy", and it takes quite a while to get established enough to see any real progress.

    Farming Instances - Not everyone has the luxury of running a bunch of alts, even on the same account, nor should they have to. From crappy computers to sharing the computer with other people, multiclienting and leaving catshops up for ages just isn't feasible to everyone, nor should it be necessary. And again, making a bunch of alts and getting them to the point where they need to be can take months for people who can only play a few hours a week. The sense of progress is missing, which is discouraging. Also, the endgame instances(Flowsliver, Full Warsong, Squad Mode 3-2/3-3) Are virtually or completely impossible to solo. Again, not everyone has the option of running a bunch of alts, and those who do shouldn't be required to. FS and FWS, as well as EU/AEU are very newbie-unfriendly, which goes to further support my point that people are full of themselves and turning this game into a job. Also on the note of FWS, some people are just not going to be able to do the Pavilions. Due to my autism I cannot handle the combination of a timer(in the form of killing the mobs fast enough) and the huge multitasking(timer+head+spitting+ explody mobs+correct use of skills/pots/position). Such instances are also very unfair to people with crappier computers/internet connections.
    As for selling the spoils of instances, it can take ages to sell stuff, especially when it's not feasible to leave a catshop up 24/7.

    Jolly Jones - Requires alts, at varying level ranges, all the way up to 71. Making alts should not be a requirement. One can be very unlucky and get mostly or solely the kill quests(i.e. serpents) every day. Teleporting there and back takes 25% of the reward worth of coin, teleport stones aren't cheap and flying, even with an expensive faster aero, takes far too long. Not everyone has the luxury of time for flying and with the coin cost of teleporting/Teleport stones, it can take quite some time to get any decent amount of money/ Take into consideration people who only have one account or even one toon, once they hit level 80 Jolly Jones stops being an option unless one makes an alt and levels it up. Again, making alts should not be a requirement.

    "cheap" - Everyone's interpretation of what is considered "cheap" is very different. Factoring in casual play of 1-2 hours, a single toon on one account, I consider anything I cannot earn within those 1-2 hours of play, to not be "cheap". But, many people here seem to have skewed views of what is "cheap" based on the idea that everyone can and should multiclient, merchant, and pretty much "make a job" out of the game.

    Getting Help - Yes, one can get help from friends and/or faction. That is, of course, assuming that those persons are both available, and are willing to sacrifice their time for your time. And the reality of the matter is that most people aren't going to be willing. Which is especially discouraging in a game that is very focused on teaming up to tackle instances.

    Don't get me wrong, all of this being said, I still have to agree that PWI has been quite generous, especially compared to years ago. With last month's 1200 event gold(I only have one account) I was able to purchase a few fashion sets and still have plenty left over for charms, refining aides, and the occasional piggy smiley. As well, I have 8 gold and 8 platinum HP charms that will last me for ages. The neverending Jones/Omalley blessings mean better performance in battle. I'm lucky enough to have had a lvl 70ish toon from years ago that I use for the daily Jones coin. Even trashing the serpent quests, most days I earn ~500K, which is at least enough to cover repairs, teleports and other necessities, and still have at least 50K to save up for the more expensive things like gear.
    So I'm not saying that PWI isn't giving a little help, I'm quite against effortless instant gratification(I will clarify that I consider cash shopping to the top perfectly fine if one has earned the real $$ themselves). But, things aren't as "lazy" as many are making it out to be. I think a lot of you need to remove the entitlement goggles and forget about your hours of addicted play, your alt army, your wall street smarts, your inexpensive power/internet bills, your personal computer you don't need to share, your delusions of what is or isn't "easy". And more importantly, I think everyone needs to stop and remember this is a game, and some people play it for fun, as a stress reliever, and they shouldn't have to turn the game into a job.

    Loosen up everyone, run a dungeon with some random people, die a bunch of times to a boss that your squad isn't correctly set up for, and have fun trying, even if you ultimately fail. And if you made it to the end of this wall of heavily opinionated text, then enjoy a nonexistent cookie, my treat. b:victory
  • zoner112012zoner112012 Posts: 943 Arc User
    edited June 2015
    So this is why so many new players in PWI servers, this is why PWI servers are crowded with new characters !!!


    Because " it's a LOT easier to gear up now a days than it was 3-4 years ago".


    Sorry, what is your server ? Is not it private server ?

    What are PvP requirements today and "3-4 years ago" ?

    What are TW requirements today and "3-4 years ago" ?

    What is minimal level for player to be member of top guild in comparison with "bad old times" ?

    Good point....and i still call BS that OP has never CSed. Sorry but even I have CSed before and I do know how to make coin in game. That isn't the point. the point is this entire article is bs and is just trying to be a rant because you are tired of hearing peoples complaints. Guess what you dont have to...block them or stop coming to forums.

    FYI some people have lives and don't have the ability or time to gear up and farm with dozens of alts...I also love the emphasis of how you have the legal number of accounts.....maybe the GMs should investigate this because by the ToS you are not allowed to log more then 2 accounts at a time...so how are you farming with an army? LOL
    ln5aR6B.jpg
  • bloodedone87bloodedone87 Posts: 1,883 Arc User
    edited June 2015
    Good point....and i still call BS that OP has never CSed. Sorry but even I have CSed before and I do know how to make coin in game. That isn't the point. the point is this entire article is bs and is just trying to be a rant because you are tired of hearing peoples complaints. Guess what you dont have to...block them or stop coming to forums.

    FYI some people have lives and don't have the ability or time to gear up and farm with dozens of alts...I also love the emphasis of how you have the legal number of accounts.....maybe the GMs should investigate this because by the ToS you are not allowed to log more then 2 accounts at a time...so how are you farming with an army? LOL

    You should know by now that most of people are breaking the Tos and PW dont give a **** about it. Or it seems that they dont give a **** about it.
    giphy.gif



  • demansfairydemansfairy Posts: 456 Arc User
    edited June 2015

    FYI some people have lives and don't have the ability or time to gear up and farm with dozens of alts...I also love the emphasis of how you have the legal number of accounts.....maybe the GMs should investigate this because by the ToS you are not allowed to log more then 2 accounts at a time...so how are you farming with an army? LOL
    Aperently you've never heard about what happened to my psy.... +12 3r9 w/ NW gear... what a waste =/
    full +12 SB, currently lv 105 105 105
  • bloodedone87bloodedone87 Posts: 1,883 Arc User
    edited June 2015
    The amount of ego in this thread is both amusing and pathetic.



    Jolly Jones - Requires alts, at varying level ranges, all the way up to 71. Making alts should not be a requirement. One can be very unlucky and get mostly or solely the kill quests(i.e. serpents) every day. Teleporting there and back takes 25% of the reward worth of coin, teleport stones aren't cheap and flying, even with an expensive faster aero, takes far too long. Not everyone has the luxury of time for flying and with the coin cost of teleporting/Teleport stones, it can take quite some time to get any decent amount of money/ Take into consideration people who only have one account or even one toon, once they hit level 80 Jolly Jones stops being an option unless one makes an alt and levels it up. Again, making alts should not be a requirement.

    1 I cant believe that there are people that dont know how to make money out of JOJ quests.
    2 Nobody is that unlucky to get only kill quest everyday. You may get it 4-5 times in a day, 2 days per week but never every day.
    3 Is very stupid to use the main for JOJ. Is also very stupid not to have 2 acounts. Create alts for JOJ.
    4 A player that wants to make money from JOJ is not supposed to lvl them up 80. Best is to keep them at lvl 71. Dont even check in.
    giphy.gif



  • __Sami__ - Archosaur__Sami__ - Archosaur Posts: 220 Arc User
    edited June 2015
    The amount of ego in this thread is both amusing and pathetic.

    Merchanting - Not as easy as many of you make it sound. A pretty steep starting point is pretty much required(10 mil isn't going to get you anywhere). There is a lot of luck involved, from correctly making predictions to having good timing. Which not everyone has time to keep an eye on the market and buy/sell at the right moments. Furthermore, not everyone feels comfortable with gambling what they have when the game continues to nerf methods of earning money that aren't "a job". Some people play this game for fun, stress relief, to unwind, not to play stock market and economic gambling. This game isn't called "Perfect Merchants" last I checked. Also, some people have mental handicaps that make understanding and correctly applying things like merchanting, virtually impossible.
    In summary, merchanting isn't "easy", and it takes quite a while to get established enough to see any real progress.

    Farming Instances - Not everyone has the luxury of running a bunch of alts, even on the same account, nor should they have to. From crappy computers to sharing the computer with other people, multiclienting and leaving catshops up for ages just isn't feasible to everyone, nor should it be necessary. And again, making a bunch of alts and getting them to the point where they need to be can take months for people who can only play a few hours a week. The sense of progress is missing, which is discouraging. Also, the endgame instances(Flowsliver, Full Warsong, Squad Mode 3-2/3-3) Are virtually or completely impossible to solo. Again, not everyone has the option of running a bunch of alts, and those who do shouldn't be required to. FS and FWS, as well as EU/AEU are very newbie-unfriendly, which goes to further support my point that people are full of themselves and turning this game into a job. Also on the note of FWS, some people are just not going to be able to do the Pavilions. Due to my autism I cannot handle the combination of a timer(in the form of killing the mobs fast enough) and the huge multitasking(timer+head+spitting+ explody mobs+correct use of skills/pots/position). Such instances are also very unfair to people with crappier computers/internet connections.
    As for selling the spoils of instances, it can take ages to sell stuff, especially when it's not feasible to leave a catshop up 24/7.

    Jolly Jones - Requires alts, at varying level ranges, all the way up to 71. Making alts should not be a requirement. One can be very unlucky and get mostly or solely the kill quests(i.e. serpents) every day. Teleporting there and back takes 25% of the reward worth of coin, teleport stones aren't cheap and flying, even with an expensive faster aero, takes far too long. Not everyone has the luxury of time for flying and with the coin cost of teleporting/Teleport stones, it can take quite some time to get any decent amount of money/ Take into consideration people who only have one account or even one toon, once they hit level 80 Jolly Jones stops being an option unless one makes an alt and levels it up. Again, making alts should not be a requirement.

    "cheap" - Everyone's interpretation of what is considered "cheap" is very different. Factoring in casual play of 1-2 hours, a single toon on one account, I consider anything I cannot earn within those 1-2 hours of play, to not be "cheap". But, many people here seem to have skewed views of what is "cheap" based on the idea that everyone can and should multiclient, merchant, and pretty much "make a job" out of the game.

    Getting Help - Yes, one can get help from friends and/or faction. That is, of course, assuming that those persons are both available, and are willing to sacrifice their time for your time. And the reality of the matter is that most people aren't going to be willing. Which is especially discouraging in a game that is very focused on teaming up to tackle instances.

    Don't get me wrong, all of this being said, I still have to agree that PWI has been quite generous, especially compared to years ago. With last month's 1200 event gold(I only have one account) I was able to purchase a few fashion sets and still have plenty left over for charms, refining aides, and the occasional piggy smiley. As well, I have 8 gold and 8 platinum HP charms that will last me for ages. The neverending Jones/Omalley blessings mean better performance in battle. I'm lucky enough to have had a lvl 70ish toon from years ago that I use for the daily Jones coin. Even trashing the serpent quests, most days I earn ~500K, which is at least enough to cover repairs, teleports and other necessities, and still have at least 50K to save up for the more expensive things like gear.
    So I'm not saying that PWI isn't giving a little help, I'm quite against effortless instant gratification(I will clarify that I consider cash shopping to the top perfectly fine if one has earned the real $$ themselves). But, things aren't as "lazy" as many are making it out to be. I think a lot of you need to remove the entitlement goggles and forget about your hours of addicted play, your alt army, your wall street smarts, your inexpensive power/internet bills, your personal computer you don't need to share, your delusions of what is or isn't "easy". And more importantly, I think everyone needs to stop and remember this is a game, and some people play it for fun, as a stress reliever, and they shouldn't have to turn the game into a job.

    Loosen up everyone, run a dungeon with some random people, die a bunch of times to a boss that your squad isn't correctly set up for, and have fun trying, even if you ultimately fail. And if you made it to the end of this wall of heavily opinionated text, then enjoy a nonexistent cookie, my treat. b:victory

    I have spent some time with handicapped people. But sadly, such people are small minority and due disadvantages such conditions create its close to impossible to make a game where such people wouldnt be worse off than people w/o such issues.

    That aside, merchanting has very little to do with luck. Neither does it take much time. It comes down to base capital. And there are plenty of ways to generate small base capital for basic merching. Its nowhere near as difficult as you make it seem, it might be to you personally due having a disability but as I said, those are pretty much impossible to account for.

    I would love to see your suggestions how to make this game better then? And remember, there is a reason why no(?) private servers survive when everything is easy & free to get.
    __Sami__ - Archer - 105/104/102 - mypers.pw/1.8/#135691 - Active
    HideYoHubby - Assassin - 105/101/101 - Inactive
    WnbTank - Barbarian - 103/101/101 - Catshop
  • Bellarie - Raging TideBellarie - Raging Tide Posts: 603 Arc User
    edited June 2015
    1 I cant believe that there are people that dont know how to make money out of JOJ quests.
    2 Nobody is that unlucky to get only kill quest everyday. You may get it 4-5 times in a day, 2 days per week but never every day.
    3 Is very stupid to use the main for JOJ. Is also very stupid not to have 2 acounts. Create alts for JOJ.
    4 A player that wants to make money from JOJ is not supposed to lvl them up 80. Best is to keep them at lvl 71. Dont even check in.

    1. I never said anything about "knowing how to make money out of JOJ Quests". Furthermore, please explain how one is to make money via JOJ once they hit lvl 80 without making an alt, and please explain why anyone should be required to make more than one toon just to enjoy the game.

    2. Prove that "Nobody" is that unlucky. About two weeks ago I went 6 days of that kind of luck; four days of 5 serpents, two charm lake, a day of 6 serpents, one grinding fruit, and a day of 6 serpents, one charm lake. My hubbie has been having pretty back luck the past week with his daily jones. Tell yourself "it doesn't happen" all you want, doesn't make it any less of a baseless assumption.

    3. Now you are just being condescending and talking out of your cornholio. Why is it "very stupid" not to have two accounts? Why should anyone need to have two accounts, or even two toons? Please explain to me why anyone is "very stupid" for not playing the way you play.

    4. You missed the point I made: What about people who have no interesting making more than one toon? Again, please explain to me why, anyone should need to make more than one toon to enjoy the game, and why your opinion on the need to make more than one toon is more or less valid than anyone else's opinion.
  • bloodedone87bloodedone87 Posts: 1,883 Arc User
    edited June 2015
    1. I never said anything about "knowing how to make money out of JOJ Quests". Furthermore, please explain how one is to make money via JOJ once they hit lvl 80 without making an alt, and please explain why anyone should be required to make more than one toon just to enjoy the game.

    2. Prove that "Nobody" is that unlucky. About two weeks ago I went 6 days of that kind of luck; four days of 5 serpents, two charm lake, a day of 6 serpents, one grinding fruit, and a day of 6 serpents, one charm lake. My hubbie has been having pretty back luck the past week with his daily jones. Tell yourself "it doesn't happen" all you want, doesn't make it any less of a baseless assumption.

    3. Now you are just being condescending and talking out of your cornholio. Why is it "very stupid" not to have two accounts? Why should anyone need to have two accounts, or even two toons? Please explain to me why anyone is "very stupid" for not playing the way you play.

    4. You missed the point I made: What about people who have no interesting making more than one toon? Again, please explain to me why, anyone should need to make more than one toon to enjoy the game, and why your opinion on the need to make more than one toon is more or less valid than anyone else's opinion.

    1 If they want to make money out of JOJ quests thats the way you do it. You make alts for it. Thats the way this thing works.
    2 I must be a very lucky person.
    3 Yes its stupid not to have to acounts. It takes damn 5 minutes( if you are slow minded) to create a damn acount. So why not making 2? And its very usefull sometimes. Like opening WS to learn to solo pavs or helping yourself by using your main from 1 acount to help your alt from another acount with Quests. And many other things that can be used.
    4 If they dont have any interes in making more than 1 toon they should stop complaining about not being able to make money in the game as fast or almost as fast as others do.

    I dont like this kind of people that want everything to be given freely or they want to put less effort in obtaing the things they need in this game.
    Im sorry but this game is been this way for years. Either you Cash Shop and obtain your gear very fast. Either you farm and merchant for months or years.
    If you are a player that due to RL can play only 2-3 hours it will take you more than the one that can spend 8-10 hours playing. If you dont have patience to do so you should chose other game or play the game without the desire of having TOP gear. For this kind of people G16 +5 should be enough.
    I didnt designe the game to be the way it is. Is a game that requires either a lot of cash either alot of time. For people that dont have both... Im sorry but...
    giphy.gif



  • Bellarie - Raging TideBellarie - Raging Tide Posts: 603 Arc User
    edited June 2015
    I have spent some time with handicapped people. But sadly, such people are small minority and due disadvantages such conditions create its close to impossible to make a game where such people wouldnt be worse off than people w/o such issues.
    Very true. And despite things like my issues making FWS impossible for me, I can't say I'd support it being changed to cater to people who can't do it due to such things like disability. Because I'm sure there are people who actually have fun with the mechanics of doing the pavilions, and it wouldn't be fair to them. A suggestion would be to give an alternate method to obtain the molds; add the molds to the Nirvana bosses, with the weapon mold being added to the final boss. Perhaps have Holeen in FCC or the bosses of Abbadon/SoT. And perhaps add them to TT3-3 Squad mode, or even just Illusion Lord.
    Or, even better, I would much prefer the molds simply being tradeable.
    That aside, merchanting has very little to do with luck. Neither does it take much time. It comes down to base capital. And there are plenty of ways to generate small base capital for basic merching. Its nowhere near as difficult as you make it seem, it might be to you personally due having a disability but as I said, those are pretty much impossible to account for.

    Actually, you bring up a good point, you are prolly right as far as merchanting being especially difficult for me due to how I proccess things. I once tried merchanting when I played four years ago, buying herbs, crafting Teas and selling them, and for a while, I seemed to be turning a slight profit, managed to turn 2 mil into 10 mil, but after a month or so I ended up losing most of my profits and ended up with too little money to make it work. I just personally have better luck with simpler methods like running through dungeons or going on a mob killing spree and selling the drops. I still pick up most coin drops and I usually break even, so I can't complain to much, but I do see why people are angry about the potion nerf, and I think it's a valid complaint regardless of what other methods, easy or not, there are to make money. Variety is always good imo, and cutting options is rarely a good thing.
    I would love to see your suggestions how to make this game better then? And remember, there is a reason why no(?) private servers survive when everything is easy & free to get.

    I don't think things should be easy and free, though easy is all based on opinion and personal play style. But I can also see people's frustration, with more and more nerfs, it just takes that much longer, that much more time and effort for the same results. It gets discouraging, and I think once that happens the element of fun is lost. If that makes any sense. I guess we technically should blame the players more than anything, as it's the players who set the market, the players who set the standard for everything, and the players who determine how "easy" the game is for people who are a little slower to get geared up, are casuals, and/or have handicaps. That being said, I can't think of many suggestions that would really be that effective with how the playerbase of this game operates. And, there's no pleasing everyone, so at the end of the day, you either find your fun in it all, or you don't. I came back to the game a few months ago and found new fun in my veno and made her into a decent farming toon, abandoned my BM, and and actually enjoying my Psychic(just hit lvl 80 today)

    But then again, I'm "very stupid" since I don't have two accounts. b:shutup
  • Bellarie - Raging TideBellarie - Raging Tide Posts: 603 Arc User
    edited June 2015
    1 If they want to make money out of JOJ quests thats the way you do it. You make alts for it. Thats the way this thing works.
    2 I must be a very lucky person.
    3 Yes its stupid not to have to acounts. It takes damn 5 minutes( if you are slow minded) to create a damn acount. So why not making 2? And its very usefull sometimes. Like opening WS to learn to solo pavs or helping yourself by using your main from 1 acount to help your alt from another acount with Quests. And many other things that can be used.
    4 If they dont have any interes in making more than 1 toon they should stop complaining about not being able to make money in the game as fast or almost as fast as others do.

    I dont like this kind of people that want everything to be given freely or they want to put less effort in obtaing the things they need in this game.
    Im sorry but this game is been this way for years. Either you Cash Shop and obtain your gear very fast. Either you farm and merchant for months or years.
    If you are a player that due to RL can play only 2-3 hours it will take you more than the one that can spend 8-10 hours playing. If you dont have patience to do so you should chose other game or play the game without the desire of having TOP gear. For this kind of people G16 +5 should be enough.
    I didnt designe the game to be the way it is. Is a game that requires either a lot of cash either alot of time. For people that dont have both... Im sorry but...

    1. Obviously one has to make at least one alt to "make money from JOJ" considering it stops at level 80. That's not what I asked you, I asked why anyone should need to make alts to enjoy the game.

    3. It doesn't "take 5 minutes". You assume everyone has the option or wants to multiclient. The point to making an alt account, aside from the limit of 8 toons but 12 classes, is for things like Jones, opening instances, and buffs. All of which would require multiclienting, which I mentioned is not an option for everyone, nor should it be required. Please explain, why anyone should be required to multiclient to enjoy this game. Also, one must level that new account, and if multiclienting is not an option, there is no account stash to help, and bound things cannot be mailed.

    4. You miss my point, and I think you may misunderstand me, you should go back and read the last half of my wall of text. I don't think things should be overly quick and easy, but I can see the validity in people's complaints. I don't think that multiclienting or even making more than one toon, let alone more than one account, should be required to make decent progress in the game, and the more things get nerfed, the more difficult it will be to make the same amount of progress. When the game starts to feel like a chore, it loses it's fun.
  • bloodedone87bloodedone87 Posts: 1,883 Arc User
    edited June 2015
    1. Obviously one has to make at least one alt to "make money from JOJ" considering it stops at level 80. That's not what I asked you, I asked why anyone should need to make alts to enjoy the game.

    3. It doesn't "take 5 minutes". You assume everyone has the option or wants to multiclient. The point to making an alt account, aside from the limit of 8 toons but 12 classes, is for things like Jones, opening instances, and buffs. All of which would require multiclienting, which I mentioned is not an option for everyone, nor should it be required. Please explain, why anyone should be required to multiclient to enjoy this game. Also, one must level that new account, and if multiclienting is not an option, there is no account stash to help, and bound things cannot be mailed.

    4. You miss my point, and I think you may misunderstand me, you should go back and read the last half of my wall of text. I don't think things should be overly quick and easy, but I can see the validity in people's complaints. I don't think that multiclienting or even making more than one toon, let alone more than one account, should be required to make decent progress in the game, and the more things get nerfed, the more difficult it will be to make the same amount of progress. When the game starts to feel like a chore, it loses it's fun.

    To answer all your questions with only 1 answer:

    Because thats the way the Game is. Thats the way is designed. Multiclient is required if you want to do all the things and get the benefits this game has to offer.
    Go and argue with PWCN why they made it this way.
    For those that want to play only 1 char with 0 alts Im sorry but they wont make it very far. Maybe only if they cash shop or maybe after many years of playing.
    giphy.gif



  • Bellarie - Raging TideBellarie - Raging Tide Posts: 603 Arc User
    edited June 2015
    To answer all your questions with only 1 answer:

    Because thats the way the Game is. Thats the way is designed.

    That's not "the way the game is, the way it is designed". That's just how you and the majority of other players have adapted their playstyles to more quickly obtain everything they want/need. Don't confuse opinion with fact. The game was "designed" to rely on squadding up with other players, which is why multiclienting was originally against the rules. Multiclienting is now an available option that emulates squadding with other players, but is not a requirement in any way.
    Multiclient is required if you want to do all the things and get the benefits this game has to offer.

    Completely untrue. Multiclient doesn't let one "do all the things and get the benefits". I've yet to hear of someone successfully solo'ing Delta, EU/AEU or FWS including the Pavilions. Also, weekly Abb/SoT.

    Also, multiclient is not "required" for anything at all in this game. One can do everything in this game with only one toon on one account, no alts at all. Nothing at all can be obtained with multiclienting that cannot be obtained without. Believe it or not, squadding and trading with other people is still a thing....
    Go and argue with PWCN why they made it this way.
    Don't confuse your personal opinion with fact. PWCN didn't "make it this way" because multiclienting and alts are not required in any way shape or form, period. Believe it or not, squadding and trading with other people is still a thing....

    For those that want to play only 1 char with 0 alts Im sorry but they wont make it very far.
    Again you confuse personal opinion with fact. It's not that hard to make it to endgame with decent gear in only a few months if one puts their mind to it and makes the most of everything the game gives them on their one toon. And then one can throw in a single lvl 7x alt for Jones, which takes about a week or two to make.
    Maybe only if they cash shop or maybe after many years of playing.
    You just said they "won't make it very far" and now you are saying they can in certain circumstances. Make up your mind. b:chuckle

    And one can get their gear without cash shopping or "years of playing" if they put their mind to it and make the most of everything the game gives them, even with no Jones alt. Squadding with friends/faction mates for TT/Lunar/FWS for T3 mats and molds, NW for the raps/cannies. Doing CoA/PQ for the rings, FWS. cube, even the Jungle for the neck and belt. Farming herbs, selling unneeded instance mats, BH100 rewards, weekly Dragon Temple and eventhe cube can be used for establishing funds, and merchanting is supposedly not nearly as bad for most people as it is for me.
  • __Sami__ - Archosaur__Sami__ - Archosaur Posts: 220 Arc User
    edited June 2015
    Completely untrue. Multiclient doesn't let one "do all the things and get the benefits". I've yet to hear of someone successfully solo'ing Delta, EU/AEU or FWS including the Pavilions. Also, weekly Abb/SoT.

    I havent actually soloed delta but its honestly more or less a joke to endgame players. Its not that I cant, its that I havent seen any reason to do so as plenty of people have done it proving it to be quite doable. Edit. I mean the spawn point one, the one with auras would be absolute joke. Soloing delta was by my understanding the reason they took coins off shrooms.

    EU is easy to solo if you have 8 95+ toon on 8 different accounts. Might be bit painful for your system but I know somebody intended to try it at some point, not sure they ever bothered. After relay part its really joke of an instance I could solo easily in fairly quick manner.

    AEU can be soloed. A friend of mine soloes Twins/balance. Bushes require 8 crystals to be dug, which isnt really appealing to her.

    FW isnt all that difficult. 5 decently geared clerics in BB for pav defense, clear one on your toon you intend to clear rest of the instance if you feel like it. If not, 6th cleric in BB it is. After pav defense its not all that difficult, I could easily solo it after that point. Dont really see much of a point in doing so, nor do I have interest in creating cleric army for such purpose. You dont actually need that many clerics, there are ways of doing 2 pavs at time, earth+fire for example. Other pair is wood+water. Sure, need somebody on 2nd pav till the soloer is in place but meh.

    Lastly weekly. I dont see any point doing so but as I do weeklys pretty much weekly, I know it wouldnt be much of a problem. Drag alt for puppeteer if you dont feel like timing sparks, rest of the instance is cake. Might want to bring sins for charging the time shifter part. SoT is even easier to solo as there are no mechanics to tackle, its all gear really. Sure, these kinds of things require geared toons but nothing phenomenal to major TW guild players. Not suggesting everybody or even majority in major TW guilds could pull this off but the number is easily 2 digits per guild.
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  • Toliman - Raging TideToliman - Raging Tide Posts: 1,595 Arc User
    edited June 2015
    I havent actually soloed delta but its honestly more or less a joke to endgame players...

    Those, who are not "end - game" ask about way to play and you say, that they must be "end game" to play pwi.
    ...

    4. You miss my point, and I think you may misunderstand me, you should go back and read the last half of my wall of text. I don't think things should be overly quick and easy, but I can see the validity in people's complaints. I don't think that multiclienting or even making more than one toon, let alone more than one account, should be required to make decent progress in the game, and the more things get nerfed, the more difficult it will be to make the same amount of progress. When the game starts to feel like a chore, it loses it's fun.


    Let explain even more.

    I play solo RPG using mage class.

    I not need money, end-game gear or help of players to play this game.

    In MMO pwi you need much more than help of other players.

    In RPG merchants are absent, because they are useless.

    Powerleveling ? It absent too, because it is RPG, player solve quests and by solving quests he play.
  • Zoldi - MoraiZoldi - Morai Posts: 1,595 Arc User
    edited June 2015
    Lastly weekly. I dont see any point doing so but as I do weeklys pretty much weekly, I know it wouldnt be much of a problem. Drag alt for puppeteer if you dont feel like timing sparks, rest of the instance is cake..

    I can confirm weeklies are easily soloable if you have good enough gears, at least for a mystic (and mystics don't need alts for pupeeters, but you need a second toon to be TP after Pupeeter). And when I say good gears it's not super endgame. Sure it would be hard with G16 but you don't need +12 or S cards.
    Anyway, even FSP is soloable with good enough gears, good classes or multiclienting, but this is totally wrong to say the game is designed to encourage that.
    I rather have the feeling that both China and PWE try to orientate the game towards teamplay.
    ~ Sage Mystic 105-105-105 ~
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  • Bellarie - Raging TideBellarie - Raging Tide Posts: 603 Arc User
    edited June 2015
    I havent actually soloed delta but its honestly more or less a joke to endgame players. Its not that I cant, its that I havent seen any reason to do so as plenty of people have done it proving it to be quite doable. Edit. I mean the spawn point one, the one with auras would be absolute joke. Soloing delta was by my understanding the reason they took coins off shrooms.

    EU is easy to solo if you have 8 95+ toon on 8 different accounts. Might be bit painful for your system but I know somebody intended to try it at some point, not sure they ever bothered. After relay part its really joke of an instance I could solo easily in fairly quick manner.

    AEU can be soloed. A friend of mine soloes Twins/balance. Bushes require 8 crystals to be dug, which isnt really appealing to her.

    FW isnt all that difficult. 5 decently geared clerics in BB for pav defense, clear one on your toon you intend to clear rest of the instance if you feel like it. If not, 6th cleric in BB it is. After pav defense its not all that difficult, I could easily solo it after that point. Dont really see much of a point in doing so, nor do I have interest in creating cleric army for such purpose. You dont actually need that many clerics, there are ways of doing 2 pavs at time, earth+fire for example. Other pair is wood+water. Sure, need somebody on 2nd pav till the soloer is in place but meh.

    Lastly weekly. I dont see any point doing so but as I do weeklys pretty much weekly, I know it wouldnt be much of a problem. Drag alt for puppeteer if you dont feel like timing sparks, rest of the instance is cake. Might want to bring sins for charging the time shifter part. SoT is even easier to solo as there are no mechanics to tackle, its all gear really. Sure, these kinds of things require geared toons but nothing phenomenal to major TW guild players. Not suggesting everybody or even majority in major TW guilds could pull this off but the number is easily 2 digits per guild.

    That's just crazy about EU and FWS. I don't see how anyone can handle all the multitasking that would be involved with doing all five pavilions at once just one person. Not to mention, I would think that having 5 clients up at once would require a really high-end computer. And 8 clients for EU, I can't even imagine. As for weekly, I thought one needed a full squad of 10 toons(10 clients up at once O_o), or do the extras just need to stand around and show up to certain places at certain times? I know Abb has that color thing that requires multiple toons.
  • Zoldi - MoraiZoldi - Morai Posts: 1,595 Arc User
    edited June 2015
    That's just crazy about EU and FWS. I don't see how anyone can handle all the multitasking that would be involved with doing all five pavilions at once just one person. Not to mention, I would think that having 5 clients up at once would require a really high-end computer. And 8 clients for EU, I can't even imagine. As for weekly, I thought one needed a full squad of 10 toons(10 clients up at once O_o), or do the extras just need to stand around and show up to certain places at certain times? I know Abb has that color thing that requires multiple toons.

    For FWS you need several toons, so you can't solo without multi-clienting. But you don't need 5 clients, because for example you can tank earth and fire at the same time.
    And you don't need to kill the mobs just tank them. So if you have good enough gears (very good ones) then you just need to check from time to time, so that the mobs/head don't reset.

    For weekly, you don't need more than two clients. And actually you need the second one only 10 seconds in aba. For the color thing, it's better to have 3/4 but you could move one only toon in the different spots (would be a pain in the *** and maybe not worth the time, but it's doable). You certainly don't need 10 toons though.
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    ~ Sage Sin 103-103-102 ~
    ~ Sage vita Barb 103-102-101 ~
    ~ Sage BM 102-101 ~ Demon Archer 102 ~
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  • Bellarie - Raging TideBellarie - Raging Tide Posts: 603 Arc User
    edited June 2015
    but this is totally wrong to say the game is designed to encourage that.
    I rather have the feeling that both China and PWE try to orientate the game towards teamplay.

    Thank you! Glad to see someone shares my opinion. Don't get me wrong, I'm all for people solo-ing content designed to be difficult to do so, because it can provide a challenge and a different element of fun. But I think that this game is designed for teamplay, hence why even the early instances like fb19 are virtually impossible to solo at the level you are intended to tackle them. And I don't think anyone should be required to multiclient, or even make a single alt, to enjoy the game. Not everyone even has the computer/internet quality to multiclient, and not everyone can handle the level of multitasking that more than one toon in more than one client could require.

    I had been told that FSP wasn't too difficult to solo, especially for some classes like a Psychic, and watching deicide mode videos, it honestly seems to be like a higher-level FCC with a shorter length better rewards. The boss gimmicks also don't seem as cheap as the likes of Shocktrooper and Runewolf.
  • $picylovah - Sanctuary$picylovah - Sanctuary Posts: 267 Arc User
    edited June 2015
    @OP u know that show that used to be on MTV? Where sum spoiled brat was yelling at her dad claiming he ruined her birthday cuz he bought her a black BMW instead of the pink one...ye that spoiled brat...thats us
    IGN: qontroL b:thanks

    Im so mean, I make medicine sick b:angry
  • Elsariel - SanctuaryElsariel - Sanctuary Posts: 27 Arc User
    edited June 2015
    Glad to see someone shares my opinion.
    A lot of people do, even if not all can speak up. Most players don't even use the forums to speak of.

    Anyway, yes, this game is not meant to be tackled alone, teamwork is desirable and very often needed, nowhere in the game's main page and requirements does it state "Create a lot of alts and accounts today for a full experience!" to get anywhere in the game.

    // faceplants. This should get closed.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    "Now we're all mad here."
  • muliermulier Posts: 305 Arc User
    edited June 2015
    #psychics are the best
  • Eirghan - SanctuaryEirghan - Sanctuary Posts: 92 Arc User
    edited June 2015
    I have spent some time with handicapped people. But sadly, such people are small minority and due disadvantages such conditions create its close to impossible to make a game where such people wouldnt be worse off than people w/o such issues.
    Its nowhere near as difficult as you make it seem, it might be to you personally due having a disability

    Do you realise how this makes you seem? Because that was pretty disrespectful.
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  • Evryn - MoraiEvryn - Morai Posts: 1,437 Arc User
    edited June 2015
    Do you realise how this makes you seem? Because that was pretty disrespectful.

    Catering to the majority isn't disrespectful. It's just common sense. PWI doesn't advertise itself as a "MMORPG for disabled folk", does it?

    As for soloing multi instances:
    - FWS: Just plop some Seekers in vovo at earth, water and wood. They will manage themselves. Sin on standby for re-BPing them. Mystic/cleric with a heal combo on autoculti at the fire/metal pavs.

    - Weeklies: Aba, add 3 sins to do the balls easily. A toon with a summon of any kind will make Puppet easier to deal with (Mystic, Storm, Veno, Seeker). SOT is even easier, provided you've got the oomph to kill Queen before she kills you.

    - FSP: Only Succubus is a pain since you need 6 toons together on the "stand together or oneshot". But much like frogs oneshot, spark at the right time works.

    - EU: What's the problem here exactly? Something that selfpuri's for Epsilon. Maybe a cler at center in case one of your toons fails. You'd need to log 9 of them in that case, not everyone has a system that can handle that amount of multi.

    - AEU: You need 8 toons for the long run to start proper. Beyond that, anything can be solo'd if you've got enough oomph (Aohe can be a major pain tho - one strong elemental dd and one strong phys dd are recommended, possibly even a cleric on a heal macro)

    - UCH: Fire can be solo'd if you're fast enough with the meteor droppers. Couple of self regenerating DDs for those are probably better. Wind requires 2 healers on heal macros to hold the boss dragons aggrod, rest is soloable.
    I'm so P.R.O... I Press Respawn Often.

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  • Eirghan - SanctuaryEirghan - Sanctuary Posts: 92 Arc User
    edited June 2015
    Catering to the majority isn't disrespectful. It's just common sense. PWI doesn't advertise itself as a "MMORPG for disabled folk", does it?

    This is the post that that comment was in response to. Doesn't seem very handicapped, does it? Perhaps I'm misinterpreting them but it seems they are aknowledging the OP's point about handicapped people and then equating the OP's point to the OP being so mentally handicapped that they can't understand basic sense....?

    Even if they or someone is handicapped, (and I have friends that are who play) the point remains that you should not need to merchant to enjoy a game, you should not need to have 8 cleints on 24/7 to enjoy a game, you should not need to solo everything to enjoy a game.

    Bringing up people's mental capacities to accomplish tasks like merchanting is hardly relevant when looking at the immediate point of how much of your life do you have to devote to an online world to get enjoyment or success out of it. It was simply a small example of an instance in which that may be completely impossible.



    It really depends. We have bout 1 spend promo each month. I would say bigger merchants average to ~500g spent on each. Bit less with bad sales if they want something, more on good sales even if they dont necessarily need the promo items. That would come at 6 oceans(450g). Fastforward a year and you will be sitting on ~70 oceans. Thats more than enough to +10 everything from +6, which is easy with refine aids. Assume its clean toon and you need everything refined. You get 1-7 orbs from treasure chest by hitting certain marks, which is how wep should be refined.

    3 for wep, 6 * 4 = 24 for armors, 4 * 4 = 16 for orns. Total so 43 oceans. In reality nobody has that much pieces to refine. Cause you will be using some kind of non refinable orns and/or you have toon you can stash stuff from. I am gonna need 6 pieces for my alt project. Either way by having least 27 oceans over what you need, you are gonna get fair bit to +11 with tishas.

    Ps. I do know of a friend who has full +10 on their alt with all promo oceans by my understanding.

    In response to this, I do not myself equate merchanting with PWI giving us free stuff. They have a promo for people to spend gold. If you are able to take advantage of that through effort, that is excellent for you, but it is not considered a give away if you must work for it. I didn't log in and have it land in my mailbox. The OP says in the OP:
    and 80(cheap) 10* orbs as promo items.

    Lets be clear, the only way to obtain those 80 (cheap) 10* orbs would have been to spend 6000$ american in game, (here is a link to the last promo, where it would take 75 gold for one ticket) either through merchanting or through your bank account. If merchanting, thats equivailent to having 18 billion in coins on my server. If the effort time and electrical bill are all free to merchant 18 billion, then be my guest. You deserve your 80 orbs. To me that is not "free" or "cheap". If I merchant for those 18bil I sure as hell earned it thank you very much, and if I plus 10 any alt using promos I will take credit for that work, not PWI for being the endlessly giving Gods they are made out to be.

    Yes they give us lots of free stuff... But I don't think this is necessarily "Free" or even "cheap" unless you undervalue your own time and effort in this game.
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  • __Sami__ - Archosaur__Sami__ - Archosaur Posts: 220 Arc User
    edited June 2015
    This is the post that that comment was in response to. Doesn't seem very handicapped, does it? Perhaps I'm misinterpreting them but it seems they are aknowledging the OP's point about handicapped people and then equating the OP's point to the OP being so mentally handicapped that they can't understand basic sense....?

    Le sigh. Read what you linked. They brought handicapped people being unable to merchant. I have worked with handicapped people and those specific ones would of not been able to merchant for why I acknowledged the point of handicapped people being unable to merch. But they suspect my brother has Aspergers, which is highly functioning form of autism so I understand fully well there are different levels of disabilities where some would not affect merching negatively. I do forget how careful one has to be when speaking of certain topics, there is always somebody ready to get their panties in a bunch over careless word.
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  • Deadalus - HarshlandsDeadalus - Harshlands Posts: 546 Arc User
    edited June 2015
    usually you go and solo stuff that becomes way to easy for you to be bothered to WC for more peple for that instance.
    In the time you could have done the half or even the whole instance until your squad is ready to go (i mean ready, usually you wait for some slow a$$ people).

    People remember the time where Nirvana was difficult and actually needed 6 decent people to run? mhm.
    Later we saw squads of 2 people (mostly sin mains with BM/veno alts) do it within 4 minutes.

    Same goes with TT 3-3. how insanely hard it was back then to do even TT 2-3 the last boss (the one in the Lava). was a pain back then.
    Now? Solo TT 3-3 no problem.

    The problem isnt the mentality of the people but the power creep we have. it just gets way to easy to do stuff alone and be just as fast as a whole squad.

    Well atleast that is my opinion on that matter.
  • Eirghan - SanctuaryEirghan - Sanctuary Posts: 92 Arc User
    edited June 2015
    Le sigh. Read what you linked. I do forget how careful one has to be when speaking of certain topics, there is always somebody ready to get their panties in a bunch over careless word.

    I did read what I linked. Did you?
    Its nowhere near as difficult as you make it seem, it might be to you personally due having a disability

    Maybe you could enlighten me... No wait, you're serious? You think they are disabled for having an opinion b:surrender
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